EVE-Search ForumWatch http://eve-search.com/ The alternative EVE-Online Forum browser. en-us Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000 EVE-Search RSS Module v1.1 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Jitters]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#40 ]]> Sun, 10 Aug 2009 08:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1191729 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Attila]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#39 "Keep the Smak low, and the ROF high"

CELES KILL BOARD: http://www.celeskills.com/index.php?mode=kill
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 15:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/170142 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Jitters]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#38 Edited by: Jitters on 09/08/2003 07:47:04
edit: schmedit.

Quote:
Either way, ya'all have fun, and I'll see ya when college starts: only difference between most of you and me: I will graduate sooner :)


I remember you. You were that guy reading volumes 7 through 18 of "A Quick Guide to More Knowledge" while the rest of us stopped at volume 6, skipped class and went for Quafe and slaverbeef with old sarge 'any-turret-will-do' Leiser down at the shooting facilities.

I heard that you ended up marrying a librarian from the emperor's (Cybernetics be with him) personal household, is that true?
I would have been there but I was busy running blueprints through pirate blockades with a cranky MWD and a leaky capacitor.
I guess the tech isn't as perfect in application as they showed us in the academy but hey, I survived and managed to pay my debt. ;-)]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 07:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1191727 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Attila]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#37 "Keep the Smak low, and the ROF high"

CELES KILL BOARD: http://www.celeskills.com/index.php?mode=kill
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 01:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/170145 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Ana Khouri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#36 Edited by: Ana Khouri on 06/08/2003 11:54:01
Quote:
You did read what I wrote? If yes I would like to know how you missed the part where I said: "As far as I can see, looking at my character, none of the Learning skills have any prerequisites and IIRC I trained Memory first myself."

Moreover, I just double checked. It is possible to have Empathy without having Learning which doubly suggests that Learning isn't prerequisite to the other Learning skills. That, and the fact that none of the Learning tree skills list any prerequisites whatsoever.

So Razz back at you! Cool


Let me check.. ..er.. damn, you're right. I was *so* sure that learning is a prerequisite for the attribute skills, no idea how I get that idea.. Embarassed

Oh well, thats 1:1 then Wink

free speech not allowed here]]> Wed, 6 Aug 2009 11:53:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/91032 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Discorporation]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#35
So, it's not realy blx :P


[Heterocephalus glaber]
]]> Wed, 6 Aug 2009 07:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/610832 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by lolololo]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#34
surely this is blx - has the game even been running long enough for this???
]]> Wed, 6 Aug 2009 04:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1462731 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Jitters]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#33 Edited by: Jitters on 06/08/2003 01:09:54
Quote:
You did read what I wrote? If yes I would like to know how you can train mem and int 1 before learning 1 RazzWink


You did read what I wrote? If yes I would like to know how you missed the part where I said: "As far as I can see, looking at my character, none of the Learning skills have any prerequisites and IIRC I trained Memory first myself."

Moreover, I just double checked. It is possible to have Empathy without having Learning which doubly suggests that Learning isn't prerequisite to the other Learning skills. That, and the fact that none of the Learning tree skills list any prerequisites whatsoever.

So Razz back at you! Cool

Edit:
So the correct procedure for training Mem and Int before Lea, would be to acquire the first two skills, train them, and then acquire and train Learning. :-)]]> Wed, 6 Aug 2009 01:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1191726 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Ana Khouri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#32 Wink

free speech not allowed here]]> Tue, 5 Aug 2009 18:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/91052 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Jitters]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#31 Quote:

This is the correct method:

[...]

-quote from Ansuul


Yes, of course, how could I be so stupid.
Results from tonight's match are in:
Ansuul vs. Mathematics - Ansuul wins one to nil!

No wait. There's something wrong here isn't there?

Please check the math instead of blindly quoting something that was three posts before mine. I actually _did_ read the thread before I responded...

As far as I can see, looking at my character, none of the Learning skills have any prerequisites and IIRC I trained Memory first myself.

Yes, I noticed that Mem is primary and Int is secondary. I thought so too at the time of writing but being away from EVE I had to rely on the guide on eve-i.com, and there it says Int is primary. Since the argument is symmetrical, the correct procedure would be:
Mem 1
Int 1
Lea 1
Mem 2
...
]]> Mon, 4 Aug 2009 23:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1191713 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Ana Khouri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#30 Actually Memory is primary in the learning skills Wink

So it's learning->memory->intel for the first leavel (since you need lvl1 learning to learn the attribute skills) and memory->intel->learing for lvl 2-4.

free speech not allowed here]]> Mon, 4 Aug 2009 18:22:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/91049 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Gordam]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#29 http://robbiegee.server101.com/eve/skillcalc.php
(this page is designed to be viewed in-game, but will of course work in normal browsers as well)
]]> Sun, 3 Aug 2009 19:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/920736 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Hyden]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#28 Edited by: Hyden on 03/08/2003 19:08:12
Edited by: Hyden on 03/08/2003 19:07:57
This is the correct method:

"If your goal is to train all the learning skills to L4 before doing anything else, your best bet is to do Learning 1, Instant Recall 1-4, Analytical Mind 1-4, Learning 2-4, then any others. (Learning 1 is first because it is a requirement to train the others, if I remember correctly.)"

-quote from Ansuul
Ensign hyden(Mining & Transport) - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards

]]> Sun, 3 Aug 2009 19:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1049994 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Jitters]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#27 Quote:
I'd disagree with drunkenmaster's plan.

Train memory all the way first (to L4), then do the same with Intelligence, then Learning[...]


You can't really disagree with mathematics. ;-)

Assuming you'll want to train your Learning skills exclusively for a period, all that matters is how your current choice will affect future improvement of Learning skills (as opposed to how raising your perception would allow a small detour into Gunnery skills).

As the formula goes, each improvement is increasingly more time consuming. You know for certain that you'll want to raise both Intelligence (primary) and Memory (secondary) before anything else. Now, you know that each raise of Int will add 1 point to the time equation (I assume you know it: http://www.eve-i.de/article.php?id=33), while each raise of Mem will add 0.5 points.
The common mistake would be to just go for the most points (i.e. Int every time). This is not optimal. To optimize you'll want to look at how much a point increase is worth towards the next level compared to how long that point increase takes to get.

With Intelligence being primary, obviously you'll want to get that to lvl 1 first since the same amount of skill points will be needed regardless of choice.
Raising Int to lvl 2 from here will cost 1164 skill points. Raising Mem to lvl 1 will cost 250 skill points - and you get these skill points at the same speed since the skills share primary and secondary attributes. So, raising Int, you get 8.59 attribute points per 10k skill points. Raising Mem, you get 20.00 attribute points per 10k skill points - much better.

Again, with Int lvl 2 and Mem lvl 0:
Raising Int to lvl 3 will cost 6586 skill points, giving you as little as 1.52 attribute points per 10k skill points (compared to 20.00 if you raise Mem to lvl 1).

With regards to the Learning skill itself, again you'll have to weigh the increase in Learning speed vs. the cost in points.
Raising Learning to lvl 1 costs 250 points and gives a 2% increase. Raising Int to lvl 2 costs 1164 points, so for this to be a better increase per skill point, it'd have to be a (1164/250 * 2%) = 9.32% increase. This will happen only when (Int + Mem/2) is 10 points or less which in itself is not common and will become less likely as you raise those stats through Learning. At higher levels the difference in skill points needed to advance becomes steeper and as such makes Learning an even more viable choice.

It is obvious that raising Int to lvl 1 before raising Learning is wise, since a 1 point increase in Int will always be more than 2% unless (Int + Mem/2) is at least 50 points.

To conclude: from lvl 0 it is most efficient to first train Int lvl 1, then Mem lvl 1, then Learning lvl 1. Since the curves only get steeper after this point we can infer that this pattern should be repeated, i.e.:
Int 1
Mem 1
Lea 1
Int 2
Mem 2
Lea 2
Int 3
...etc...]]> Sun, 3 Aug 2009 18:44:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1191714 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by MoiraineDamodred]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#26
Train memory all the way first (to L4), then do the same with Intelligence, then Learning, then the rest of the learning skills. Memory is the Learning skills primary attribute, and you want to get that as high as possible to reduce the amount of time you spend learning the other skills.

After you've done that, it's pretty much your needs that dictate what to train. Again, I'd recommend training the areas with the lowest attributes first because you'll see the biggest gain there.
__________________
]]> Sat, 5 Jul 2009 08:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1656640 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Dolgrathe Nackle]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#25 Ansuul is right in his comments of a quick impact solution of training MEM first then INT
lvl 1 then lvl2 etc however learning should come last as the following applies to the benefit of each lvl trained
Primary skill reduction in training time 6.25% for each relevant skill
Secondary skill applies a 3.25% reduction
Learning skill applies a 2% reduction

On a sperate note the time it takes to train a rank 12 skill is as follows assuming average stats of 10 in the primary and secondary attribute.

No learning skill =142.2 days
Learning skill lvl5 =129.3
Primary Attribute skill +5 =106.7 days
Secondary attribute +5 = 121.9
Prim+5, Second +5 Learning 5 = 86.2 days

Big difference.
Dol
Dolgrathe
Member of the 'X-Corp Confederation'

Refining for the Future]]> Mon, 30 Jun 2009 15:22:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/628031 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Ansuul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#24
If your goal is to train all the learning skills to L4 before doing anything else, your best bet is to do Learning 1, Instant Recall 1-4, Analytical Mind 1-4, Learning 2-4, then any others. (Learning 1 is first because it is a requirement to train the others, if I remember correctly.)

However, other priorities may get in the way, so this is not necessarily the "best" for any given character, just the fastest way to get all the learning skills to L4.
]]> Thu, 26 Jun 2009 17:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/109179 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by drunkenmaster]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#23
learning 1
intel 1
mem 1
perc 1
intel 2
mem 2
perc 2
learning 2
intel 3
mem 3
perc 3
learning 3
intel 4
mem 4
perc 4
learning 4
willpower 1-4
empathy 1-4

This might not be the abosolute ultimate plan, but it's quicker than doing learning first.

Also, these are not the names of the skills, but the affected attributes.
.
]]> Thu, 26 Jun 2009 15:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/665406 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Bambi]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#22

If God made us to be just like him, then God is dumb and maybe a little ugly on the side...[F.Z]]]> Thu, 26 Jun 2009 13:59:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/212049 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by T'el'Alana Luathin]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=2#21 --
always look on the bright side of the cloning facility.]]> Thu, 26 Jun 2009 13:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/2395584 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by drunkenmaster]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#20
Taking your primary skill from 10 to 11 will give you 10% reduction in training.

Best bet is to train intelligence before training, that way training 5 will only take 5 days or so :)
.
]]> Thu, 26 Jun 2009 12:49:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/669086 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Roger1]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#19 ]]> Thu, 26 Jun 2009 12:06:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/2056252 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by drunkenmaster]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#18
And then you can see whether it's worth it...

But for now, just train up all your learning attributes.
.
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2009 09:01:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/669052 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by DarkRift]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#17
However, training your primary attribute instead of learning would save you 1 day 10 hours 42 minutes. That's 187% better than training learning.

Edited by: DarkRift on 25/06/2003 08:25:31
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2009 08:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/515839 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Ansuul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#16
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2009 03:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/109169 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by whoda1]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#15
I'm guessing 10 days or so.
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2009 01:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/2597501 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Nott]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#14 ]]> Mon, 23 Jun 2009 23:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1798039 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Mynah Birde]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#13
In reality it will probably be even more than that since if you are like me there will be days when there are no good skill options to train that will last until you log back on (7 hours sleep, 10 hours at work or commuting makes for lot of offline training.) So you're either training a long skill you didn't really want just yet in order to be time-efficient or you train a shorter skill you do really want then lose hours of time when you're not training anything at all. The 2% benefit on those skills are wasted.
]]> Mon, 23 Jun 2009 15:00:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1711649 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Gunnz]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#12 ]]> Mon, 23 Jun 2009 07:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/953238 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by DarkRift]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#11 ]]> Mon, 23 Jun 2009 00:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/515846 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Ansuul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#10
My view is that it would take most of a year to save as much time as it would take to train from Learning L4 to L5, and therefore I don't feel it's worth it. If a useful skill is added that has L5 as a requirement, then I would re-assess this.
]]> Sun, 22 Jun 2009 15:24:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/109192 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Gafton]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#9

Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead.]]> Sun, 22 Jun 2009 11:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/866094 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Tnelyos]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#8 ]]> Sun, 22 Jun 2009 10:09:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/2466743 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Discorporation]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#7
Prerequisite being, ofc, lvl 5 Learning.

we already got this for Drones (Drone interfacing) and other skills (well, coparable, anyway) so why not for learning?


[Heterocephalus glaber]
]]> Sat, 21 Jun 2009 16:00:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/610529 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Ansuul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#6
Yes, it saves time, but that is too slow of a payback for too little gain for me. YMMV.

And say you want to learn a rank 12 skill to L5, with just 10/10 in attributes. Learning L5 will shave about 2.5 days off of 131.5 days....
]]> Sat, 21 Jun 2009 02:53:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/109188 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Minsc]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#5
As far as the other learning skills go they can decrease training time by up to 34-40% depending on your starting attributes.

there is a really good article on it at www.eve-i.com so anyone who wants a thorough explanation should check it out.
]]> Fri, 20 Jun 2009 21:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1634618 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Parallax]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#4
http://www.geocities.com/qubexist/index.html

Now I don't know how long it will take to learn a rank 12 skill such as the Jove Frigate and/or Cruiser skills or any of the Titan skills but I can imagine that 2% will help out very nicely stretched over a few levels of those skills.

If a rank 1 level 5 skill like learning takes a week I wonder how long a rank 12 level 5 skill takes? I don't have the answer to that but I'll be thankful I took the time to train level 5 learning at that point. I think the time it takes to learn level 5 learning will pale in comparison to the time it will take to learn level 5 Jove Frigate and the extra 2% will help out a lot.

P.S. I'm just under 5 hours to go on completing my level 5 learning skill.

Edited by: Parallax on 20/06/2003 21:15:54
]]> Fri, 20 Jun 2009 21:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1863734 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Nekayah]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#3
]]> Fri, 20 Jun 2009 21:11:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/1749127 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by BSOD]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530&page=1#2
That said - The other Learning skills are more useful. Learning itself might only be useful to L3 or L4.
----------------
Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises]]> Fri, 20 Jun 2009 20:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/304629 <![CDATA[Wasted time Training Learning 5 - by Tabius]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=10530
Lets do the math.

with a 2% reduction in learning time, you gain aproximately 1 half hour per 24 hours of learning time.

learning 5 takes aproximately 7 days to train.

That's 168 hours... gaining 1/2 hour per 24 in learning time, means you would have to train for 336 days in order to gain back the time you loose training (learning 5)

I haven't found any skills that require it....so? is it useless?

Tabius


]]> Fri, 20 Jun 2009 18:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/2361587