EVE-Search ForumWatch http://eve-search.com/ The alternative EVE-Online Forum browser. en-us Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000 EVE-Search RSS Module v1.1 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Mordred Blight]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#58
what mechanics are implemented to do this exactly I don't know, but some of the things outlined in this thread and others wouldn't hurt
]]> Thu, 18 May 2009 01:17:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5399814 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Wrayeth]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#57 Edited by: Wrayeth on 18/05/2006 00:51:45
Edited by: Wrayeth on 18/05/2006 00:49:06
Originally by: Shaelin Corpius
Also this is a MUCH needed change to dreadnoughts.

Their guns need a NON-Siege boost big time. But balance out the Siege Module to fit the specs for POS shooting.

Cause they kinda suck ass when they aren't in siege. I know they are meant for taking stations and whatnot. But they are and should be Fleet worthy ships.

My suggestion, Lower the ROF on capital weapons by half. Increase the tracking a lil'. And boost the damage on them double.

Reconfigure the Siege module so that when in siege they produce the same amount of damage as they do now, cause its fine atm.


I could get behind this suggestion. Dreads were touted in an old deb blog as the be-all-and-end-all of combat ships. This was also the blog that said that titans wouldn't be the most powerful combat ships in EVE (lol - superweapon, anyone?). In any case, I would like to see dreads be more useful in general combat and not just shooting at POS.
-Wrayeth

"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
]]> Thu, 18 May 2009 00:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5399904 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Emeline Cabernet]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#56 how are 10 bs's gonna kill it when it can warp out any time it wants to?
]]> Thu, 18 May 2009 00:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5399949 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Wesley Harding]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#55 ]]> Thu, 18 May 2009 00:21:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5399972 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by NickWest]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#54 Originally by: El Yatta
Titans: need to have around 10m structure, 5m 'primary' HP (shield for caldari, armour for amarr) and 1m of the secondary. Gal/Min a little more balanced, say 4m armour, 2m shield for gal and 4/2 or 3/3 for minmatar.

Lose the capital weapons hardpoints, add a fighter bay, fighter bonuses (+5 fighters/level, 5% racial fighter damage (no extra on gallente), no capital remote rep bonuses). Lose the gun bonuses, add a tank bonus to them all as well (5% resists, or 7.5% repair rate).

More support options, we have 8 highslots, and no weapons any more to fill them. Mix and match from:

1- Doomsday
2- Clone Vat Bay
3- Jump Portal Array
4- Defence Field (POS forcefield, prevents stuff around you being locked, prevent enemy approach. Has no HP in itself, Titan still targetable, obv. has less HP than a POS,but can tank, -100% speed)
5- Seige Mod (definitely needed)
6-10 Up to 5 gang assist mods
11-13 Capital energy, armour and shielf x-fers (no bonus though, unlike carriers)
14- Factory Bay (anchors you, same as clone bay, but activate say 3 assembly lines that people with the right access can use)
15- Insurance Bay (controversial, not sure about this yet.)
16- Gravity Well Generator (-20% velocity, -4 points warp capability, radius 50km around the titan)

Stuff like this makes the titan totally unique, gives a lot of options as to what a Titan is fitting, and makes it a true logistic platform for an invasion or nomadic force, with many station-like abilities, and the ability to deploy fighters remotely, in great force.



This I like.
]]> Thu, 18 May 2009 00:09:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5400011 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by ragewind]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#53
should make it 1 cap gun or 2 normal large guns so this would actually give them the chance of ever beeing used in a fleet battle
------------------------------------
fix eves industrial sector!

advanced industrial ship]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 23:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5400077 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Malacore]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#52
Right now we don't have that, not by a long shot. We have big ships that don't look all that great and have little actual value for their monetary cost.

Why the hell shouldn't Titans be powerful ships, they're TITANS. They are the single biggest war machine built by man, and are currently useless.


They're going to be brutally uncommon ships, so why the hell can't they be uncommon yet powerful ships?

]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 23:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5400128 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by chaos98]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#51
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 22:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5400499 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Karash Amerius]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#50
Karash Amerius
Tac Coordinator, OEC
Merc Blog
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 21:56:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5400535 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Shaelin Corpius]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#49
Their guns need a NON-Siege boost big time. But balance out the Siege Module to fit the specs for POS shooting.

Cause they kinda suck ass when they aren't in siege. I know they are meant for taking stations and whatnot. But they are and should be Fleet worthy ships.

My suggestion, Lower the ROF on capital weapons by half. Increase the tracking a lil'. And boost the damage on them double.

Reconfigure the Siege module so that when in siege they produce the same amount of damage as they do now, cause its fine atm.

]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 20:40:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5400917 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Shaelin Corpius]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#48
Motherships should have 4-5x the hp of regular carrier.
Titan should have at least 4x the hps it has now.

I only say this because of the isk value you have to put into these things. 50b for one. um thats 50 carriers. I'd rather have that then one puny titan.

Titans doomsday weapon is absolutely NO match for a pack of dreads and carriers. As 75k damage sounds like alot untill you subtract %80 of that with resist. Wouldn't even phase any cap ship fleet.

I would suggest about %20-30 more hps for carriers n dreads.





]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 20:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5400966 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Cummilla]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#47
Blobberships(BS's) lining up at 100+km and ducking and weaving through ECM is the current boring flavor of today's fleet actions. Part of this is alliance FC's forgetting about inventive tactics of the past that involved ships of other sizes besides the BS. A big part of this current boredom however is the new ships haven't been permitted to fulfill their promise and truly add something to combat.

CCP has been in full backslide mode with dreads trying to undo the initial statement that made regarding that capital ship type as supposedly having a anti BS role. Carriers have been relegated to safespots! And titans we don't really know about because of lack of actual ingame experiences with them, but our calculators and published stats in terms of hitpoints make things look not too spiffy atm.

1) Give dreads back their anti BS role
2) Give carriers ability to jump through normal gates and fit XL turrets, EW near immunity, and a bump in HP. 4 cit torps on a chimera is not going to be overpowering due to the fact that it is only in seige mode that is specific to dreads where that weapons platform shines.

Lastly, think about this: What have CCP done to unnerf ANY capital ship???? Outside of greatly enhance siege mode for dreads I cannot thing of another unnerfing event. Yet more cap ship types come with the obligatory pre nerf.

Some would suggest that enhancing cap ships would be sooo overpowering, etc. But those people do not address the significant barriers to entry into the business of flying those types of ships. It's not just iskies for fighters, the carrier, or the dread and it's fittings. That's not even the major element of effort required to fly a capital ship. I had my phoenix in the hangar months before it took flight.

TRAINING TIME AND SKILL BOOK EXPENSE will always be the limiting factor in making capital ships relatively rare items in Eve.
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 20:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5401019 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by chaos98]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#46 ]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 19:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5401322 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Marcus Alkhaar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#45
Dreadnougts:

first, take away their resists
second, add a crazy ammount of hitpoints (500k? 1m?)
Third, Example: give caldari dread 30% kin res, 30% therm res, 0 em, 0 exp. (every race got a damage type)

this is just a picture for how it could be done, give the hardeners you fit a 50-60% decrease in hardening just so you dont get an uber tank
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 19:12:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5401387 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by El Yatta]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#44
Lose the capital weapons hardpoints, add a fighter bay, fighter bonuses (+5 fighters/level, 5% racial fighter damage (no extra on gallente), no capital remote rep bonuses). Lose the gun bonuses, add a tank bonus to them all as well (5% resists, or 7.5% repair rate).

More support options, we have 8 highslots, and no weapons any more to fill them. Mix and match from:

1- Doomsday
2- Clone Vat Bay
3- Jump Portal Array
4- Defence Field (POS forcefield, prevents stuff around you being locked, prevent enemy approach. Has no HP in itself, Titan still targetable, obv. has less HP than a POS,but can tank, -100% speed)
5- Seige Mod (definitely needed)
6-10 Up to 5 gang assist mods
11-13 Capital energy, armour and shielf x-fers (no bonus though, unlike carriers)
14- Factory Bay (anchors you, same as clone bay, but activate say 3 assembly lines that people with the right access can use)
15- Insurance Bay (controversial, not sure about this yet.)
16- Gravity Well Generator (-20% velocity, -4 points warp capability, radius 50km around the titan)

Stuff like this makes the titan totally unique, gives a lot of options as to what a Titan is fitting, and makes it a true logistic platform for an invasion or nomadic force, with many station-like abilities, and the ability to deploy fighters remotely, in great force.


---:::---

]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 14:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5403292 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Jon Xylur]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#43 Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes ]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 13:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5403548 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by delta2zero]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#42 Edited by: delta2zero on 17/05/2006 12:27:57
Quote:
you know a command ship that will enter a big 100vs100 battle with the chance of beeing able to hit something apart from the Vulture ?

he can sit at a safespot instead of someone in a ship worth over 1 billion was my point.

sorry about my post btw! seems a little offensive towards you after reading it again this morning.
just trying to get my point across that there are ships that can do what the carrier does better for a smaller ammount of isk
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 12:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5403857 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Boonaki]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#41 Originally by: Aloysius Knight
ive been saying this fo along time, carriers at this point in time SUCK

you take away the abiltiy to refit in space and fighters what do you have?

I like many other carrier pilots im sure, don't want a IWIN ship
we want something that we can use in fleet fights

capital ships neeed a huge boost in terms of fighting, dreads at ok but the rest are jokes atm

you ask anyone 4 months before carriers came out the if they traing for them all you would do is sit ss'ed with someone else useing your fighters


QFT!




Fear the Ibis of doom!]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 11:19:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5404196 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Aloysius Knight]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#40
you take away the abiltiy to refit in space and fighters what do you have?

I like many other carrier pilots im sure, don't want a IWIN ship
we want something that we can use in fleet fights

capital ships neeed a huge boost in terms of fighting, dreads at ok but the rest are jokes atm

you ask anyone 4 months before carriers came out the if they traing for them all you would do is sit ss'ed with someone else useing your fighters
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 09:35:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5404689 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Pottsey]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#39 Edited by: Pottsey on 17/05/2006 08:02:56
I haven't seen a Command ship with bonus to remote repairers/shield boosters,
Its there only its sort of hidden away and its a vary large bonuss. Command ships run 3 gang assist module with the shield and amour ones boosting remote repairers/shield boosters. My command ship has a 22.5% bonus to remote repairer speed and 22.5% less cap needed. If I swap to Damnation that 22.5% bonus gets even bigger.

Much better then a Carrier with 1 gang assist and a bigger bonuss then a Carrier with a Damnation or Vulture ship.


Passive shield tanking guide, click here.
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 08:00:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5405102 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by FFGR]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#38 Quote:
because we all know having someone to warp to in a fleet battle after you have taken armor and shield dmg from 100+ ships is needed right?


That is another thing and why the Logistics class is not "wanted".
They were designed as support ships in mind, boosting your forces, not damage ones.

Quote:

capital ships = ships which should be ideal for large scale battles.


They are not required to be on the battlefield apart from Dreads and maybe Carriers that will try to keep alive as much as possible the dreads if they are beeing focused fired.

Quote:
wow you can fit something stupid like 2 cruisers in a carrier its going to have a massive impact on the battle for sure and everyone needs to refit when they have there pvp setup on allready


Who said that I agree with the current hangar m3 ?

Quote:
oh and BTW command ships get better gang module bonus than carriers so i would hardly call the carrier there big brother, which leaves carriers for one thing sitting at a safespot/pos with its fighters assigned to someone else.


You know I said "Carriers and their big brothers, the Motherships" (you can see that I have done NO edit to the previous post).
The gang assisting Command ship is good for the racial gang assist modules it "should" be running.
Really now though ... you know a command ship that will enter a big 100vs100 battle with the chance of beeing able to hit something apart from the Vulture ?

PS : Stop posting with a 2 month alt, it makes you look stupid.
_____________________________

siggys v. 0.5]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 07:11:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5405284 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Boonaki]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#37

Fear the Ibis of doom!]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 06:56:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5405337 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Erotic Irony]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#36 Originally by: Angus McLein
Meanwhile inside the Titan the other fleet jump back inside ships and refit them in what is essentially a mobile station undock and pwn and capital ships the other guys brought with them.


I was under the impression the max concurrent users was fixed at one, and if its anything like the ship maintenance it has an annoying range (3-5000m) and time delay (15sec) with it making rapid response impossible.

Can anyone verify if this is also the case for capital maintenance arrays?
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 05:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5405550 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by delta2zero]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#35 Edited by: delta2zero on 17/05/2006 02:52:22
Originally by: FFGR
Originally by: delta2zero

Quote:
Carriers are small mobile capital ships that are there to boost your ships (did anyone notice that 99% CPU reduction in Gang assisting modules ? NO).

command ships do it better and cheaper.


I haven't seen a Command ship with bonus to remote repairers/shield boosters, having a corp hangar and beeing able to carry some ships.

Carriers and their big brothers, the Motherships are gang assisting capital ships in every situation (provided they will seed sometime the modules needed Rolling Eyes).

They fix you, they give you ships, they give you clones ect.

And command ships are t2, while Carriers are t1. BC can use gang assist modules aswell, but can they do the rest ?


because we all know having someone to warp to in a fleet battle after you have taken armor and shield dmg from 100+ ships is needed right?

capital ships = ships which should be ideal for large scale battles. whats the point in armor rep and shield rep bonus when the person who gets attacked is dead before they can warp? wow you can fit something stupid like 2 cruisers in a carrier its going to have a massive impact on the battle for sure and everyone needs to refit when they have there pvp setup on allready Rolling Eyes
only use of the ship bay on carrier is for people in pods to grab a fast frig so they can get out of the system quick with there tails between there legs Embarassed

oh and BTW command ships get better gang module bonus than carriers so i would hardly call the carrier there big brother, which leaves carriers for one thing sitting at a safespot/pos with its fighters assigned to someone else.
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 02:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5405963 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Kollgorholl]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#34 Originally by: delta2zero

Quote:
if a real life carrier were to come into range of four Battleships and a few frigates the Carrier would be annihilated.

in ral life they would have been picked up on the scanner and owned, they wouldnt attack a carrier because it would mean they would be destroyed even if they owned the carrier.


Hence the reason i also pointed out the fact that carriers have made BS obsolete and carriers in eve can attack from a distance (with fighters) like carriers in rl but the poster i was responding to was talking about when a carrier (in game) was fighting 4 BS and frigates up close. I was simply reffering to the fact that if he wanted it to be like real life then he couldn't effectively ask carriers to be able to handle multiple BS and tacklers at close range.


reading ftw Rolling Eyes
Inside my mind.
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 02:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406031 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by FFGR]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#33 Originally by: delta2zero

Quote:
Carriers are small mobile capital ships that are there to boost your ships (did anyone notice that 99% CPU reduction in Gang assisting modules ? NO).

command ships do it better and cheaper.


I haven't seen a Command ship with bonus to remote repairers/shield boosters, having a corp hangar and beeing able to carry some ships.

Carriers and their big brothers, the Motherships are gang assisting capital ships in every situation (provided they will seed sometime the modules needed Rolling Eyes).

They fix you, they give you ships, they give you clones ect.

And command ships are t2, while Carriers are t1. BC can use gang assist modules aswell, but can they do the rest ?
_____________________________

siggys v. 0.5]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 02:01:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406103 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by delta2zero]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#32 Edited by: delta2zero on 17/05/2006 00:55:37
Quote:
Carriers are small mobile capital ships that are there to boost your ships (did anyone notice that 99% CPU reduction in Gang assisting modules ? NO).

command ships do it better and cheaper.
Quote:
if a real life carrier were to come into range of four Battleships and a few frigates the Carrier would be annihilated.

in ral life they would have been picked up on the scanner and owned, they wouldnt attack a carrier because it would mean they would be destroyed even if they owned the carrier.
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 00:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406293 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Wesley Harding]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=2#31
I guess that's why the captial remote repairers haven't been released yet. Afraid of having dreadnaughts in siege mode repairing Titans and Carriers.
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 00:33:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406362 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by FFGR]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#29
Bigger should not be just "better".

Capital ships are extremely focused ships at what they do.

Dreads are damage and tanking platforms for destruction of stationary targets (POS, station siege) and destruction of other forms of capital ships.

Carriers are small mobile capital ships that are there to boost your ships (did anyone notice that 99% CPU reduction in Gang assisting modules ? NO).

Motherships are big carriers that are IMMUNE to EW and have the ability to use Cloning Vats and carry more ships than the standard Carriers (and it also has "Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level" bonus)

Titans are the biggest possible ship that gives BONUS TO ALL THE SHIPS IN THE GANG such as extra ARMOR, SHIELD, CAP RECHARGE and SIGNATURE RADIUS. They can also use XL guns (they do less damage than a Dread in siege mode though) and create JUMP GATES.

As a form of EW is webs and scramblers (yes they count as one).
Also if you are moving Capital ships alone you are doing something horribly wrong.

Honestly, if you can't even READ A DESCRIPTION don't post on this matter.
_____________________________

siggys v. 0.5]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 00:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406416 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Angus McLein]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#28 To quote Webster its:
'One of prodigious size, strength, or achievement'.
Now when I read that the first thing that comes to my mind IS NOT a ship that needs a variety fleet of 20+ battlehsips just to keep it alive.

I think of ship able to single fleets mentioned above. Not rely on them.
]]> Wed, 17 May 2009 00:17:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406426 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Atlanton Marcus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#27
I think that Titans should have increased armor and incredible damage, but have no defense against EWAR. This would make the ship very powerful with back-up, but very weak when not protected. In a fleet battle with a titan, the fleet with the titan would have to destroy all potential jammers so the titan can use it's weapons. The opposing fleet would have to have many jamming ships on the Titan, while Battleships take out the Titan's support.

This idea might not necessarily work, but I think that having incredible power while having a exploitable weakness would make capital ship fights much more interesting.


Any thoughts?
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 23:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406524 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Kollgorholl]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#26 Edited by: Kollgorholl on 16/05/2006 23:51:58
Originally by: delta2zero

if they are suposed to stay hidden then maybe ccp should consider adding bombing drones that can attack pos ,stations and ships from a remote location somewhere in the solar system like real carriers do but make them take up alot of space so you either have fighters or bombing drones.


I really like the idea of bombing drones but there's always the fear that Carriers could make Dreads obsolete if they could attack POS's remotely.

On the point of carrier impact on the battlefield i would argue that the ability to carry a small number of spare ships and provide repair and refit facilities for the rest of the fleet whilst allowing the whole fleet to benefit from Command Mod effects and the added firepower of a fighter squadron is a nice benefit.

Also: can't the mothership have clones on board as well? certainly a bonus for getting pilots right back into the fight.

Edit: on the point of having bomber drones to make carriers more "real" though i would point out that it makes your earlier point about a carrier running into 4 BS incorrect because in real life whilst carriers may have made BS obsolete by their ability to carry out litoral warfare at unprecedented ranges (ie: turning afghanistan (a land locked nation) into a Litoral warzone) and to sink multiple capital ships (real life cap ships not in game dreads etc), if a real life carrier were to come into range of four Battleships and a few frigates the Carrier would be annihilated.
Inside my mind.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 23:46:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406546 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by delta2zero]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#25 Quote:
Carriers and Motherships are long range fleet support ships for ss'ing and providing a point pilots can warp to for refit and repair whilst using command mods and deploying fighters to help with the fighting

they should still be feared and not easyily killed by 4bs and a few frigs.

there suposed to be huge vessels capable of changing the balance on the battlefield by there presence alone in fleets not ships that hide at safespots never to be seen and have little impact in large scale fights.

if they are suposed to stay hidden then maybe ccp should consider adding bombing drones that can attack pos ,stations and ships from a remote location somewhere in the solar system like real carriers do but make them take up alot of space so you either have fighters or bombing drones.

]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 23:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406637 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Angus McLein]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#24
What we have now is a battleship with an oversized tank and a 1 time superweapon that doest even kill battleships all the way. That my friends...is sad....

(Note: To some of the above posters, no offense, but thats just stupid. Making the Titan weaponsless? It supposed to be a pwnmobile that kills. Not a re-fitting station that gets downed by a few well places BS's)
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:58:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406770 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Stamm]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#23 Originally by: Wild Rho
Personally I think titans should be more or less weaponless but rather have pretty much all the basic abilities of a station (basically be a mobile station) albiet, much less efficient versions of them) with the advantage of being a mobile base of operations for a corp or alliance.


Well, that's kind of what motherships are supposed to be, although I don't think motherships have enough ship space. Titans are supposed to be big weapons platforms, which have a bit of carrier ability.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406803 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Wild Rho]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#22


WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406836 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Kollgorholl]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#21 Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: Zooish
When a Carrier and a Non Siege Dreadnaugh can get Warp Scrambled by a Frigate, Jammed by a Falcon
and killed by a few battleship then they are NOT fine ....

They are laughable at the moment ...


If they have anything close to reasonable support then that won't happen.


I agree.

Carriers and Motherships are long range fleet support ships for ss'ing and providing a point pilots can warp to for refit and repair whilst using command mods and deploying fighters to help with the fighting

Dreadnoughts are anti-pos, and should not be pwnmobiles meant for the destruction of BS groups whilst cruising around a system solo.

Titans are mobile stations and provide repair, refit, clone bays and a superweapon that can be remotely used across a star system, they represent the ultimate mobile command centre and forwards logistic base for alliance level offensive operations.

All of these ships should require support fleets for their actions.
Inside my mind.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:40:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406844 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Stamm]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#20 Originally by: Zooish
When a Carrier and a Non Siege Dreadnaugh can get Warp Scrambled by a Frigate, Jammed by a Falcon
and killed by a few battleship then they are NOT fine ....

They are laughable at the moment ...


If they have anything close to reasonable support then that won't happen.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:33:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406867 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Kollgorholl]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#19 Edited by: Kollgorholl on 16/05/2006 22:32:32
Originally by: Angus McLein
My take on the Titans offense is this. The Avatar has, what I forget, like 6 turrets? or maybe it was 8. Either way heres my problem, 1: 8 X-L turrets....thats already stupid. They should at least have more. 2: These 8 X-L turrets cant hit freakity jack squat if they wanted to. Besides other capital ships that is.

Fix: Give them banks of turrets. Say they (instead of 6-8 X-L turrets) give them 30-45 BS sized turrets in banks.
(I.E. 30 little buttons on your screen would be annoying so make it like in banks of 5 so on a 30 turret ship there would only be 6 buttons to press. Then the 5 turrets would fire 1 after another and restart so you'd have a ton of turrets.

The point: Titans wouldnt be so Horridly underpowered against a group of BS's just because they cant hit them with there X-L turrets. And quite honestly Capital to Capital battles would just look far more amazing. instead of 6 lame beams flying thered be the 4th of July coming off a Titan popping BS's.

Then capital ships would be feared by all instead of hunted by a pack of BS's.


I think this is a terrible idea, Titans should have backup with them, or alternatively should remain within POS shields when that is not possible.

Otherwise in a fleet battle the Titan could lose all of its support fleet and then the Titan pilot sould just say: "actually i'm not in the mood to lose a fight today,everyone dock their pods for safety." Then Boom, off goes the superweapon destroying every cruiser and frig in the enemy fleet, then the turrets activate and there goes the enemy BS fleet in a few minutes. Meanwhile inside the Titan the other fleet jump back inside ships and refit them in what is essentially a mobile station undock and pwn and capital ships the other guys brought with them. Voila an unstoppable super weapon which would roam the Galaxy without fear or the need for anything as obsolete as tactics.
Inside my mind.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:32:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406870 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Zooish]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#18 and killed by a few battleship then they are NOT fine ....

They are laughable at the moment ...
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406881 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Angus McLein]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#17
Fix: Give them banks of turrets. Say they (instead of 6-8 X-L turrets) give them 30-45 BS sized turrets in banks.
(I.E. 30 little buttons on your screen would be annoying so make it like in banks of 5 so on a 30 turret ship there would only be 6 buttons to press. Then the 5 turrets would fire 1 after another and restart so you'd have a ton of turrets.

The point: Titans wouldnt be so Horridly underpowered against a group of BS's just because they cant hit them with there X-L turrets. And quite honestly Capital to Capital battles would just look far more amazing. instead of 6 lame beams flying thered be the 4th of July coming off a Titan popping BS's.

Then capital ships would be feared by all instead of hunted by a pack of BS's.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:17:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5406948 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Kollgorholl]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#16 Originally by: delta2zero
titans are for jumping whole fleets and using doomsday via a cynosual field



according to the doomsday description though it seems the remote activation of Titan weapons can only be done at cyno's which are in the same system that the Titan is currently in. I think this limits their use. On the other using a superweapon on a fleet in a different region could be overpowered.

I think Titans just came into the game pre-nerfed and imho that's a good thing. once a Titan or two has been used for combat in game they may get tweaked.
Inside my mind.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 22:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407009 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by delta2zero]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#15 ]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 21:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407040 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Eximius Josari]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#14
They arent too much use at a SS.

Although to be frank, the role of a Titan atm is hidden from me. Is it a massive ship designed to dish out damage, take damage, or neither?

If it had a fighter ability like carriers (tbh I think it should...) it would be more useful.

And ALL of them need bigger ship maintenance bays.

Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 21:16:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407250 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Tyrus Drake]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#13 Edited by: Tyrus Drake on 16/05/2006 20:49:43
Edited by: Tyrus Drake on 16/05/2006 20:49:29
For a ship that cost billions they are in no way "fine". But I think this is a problem with all ships and their lack of defence. Any ship getting focus fire going to go down and fast.

The defensive cappablities in this game is not on par with the offensive cappabilities, not by a long shot.

What needs to be done is a % increase of armor and shield so battles last longer or modules that give ultra high resists but suffer some drawbacks, like high energy use and unable to use weapons.
"I am the Homo Superior."
Mike Tyson]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 20:49:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407416 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Locke Ateid]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#12 Originally by: Andreask14
Captials need armour ?

Look, fleet fights are not hour long slug fests where one ship with a tank can draw fire or protect the rest of the fleet, it cant. No ship can, regardless of its armour.

What do capitals do instead?

They hump safe-spots, support ppl that have to warp out, and lend fighter-power via their drones.
Additionally, they provide transport via jump-gates and clone bays.

They are not battle-ships, but fleet-support ships, all of them, except the dreadnaughts.

And guess what ?

Thanks to siege mode, i figure that dreads, being the only caps actually requiered to enter the frey, have the hardest armor and most direct firepower of the caps.


Agreed, Cap. ships are fine the way they are.

Originally by: Andreask14
I dont count doomsday as a direct fire weapon because it is essentially an Area of Effect weapon, which can only be effectively used in a camp, and only once.


Not to mention that they also wipe out all of your ships as well. To me, the Doomday modules are a last stance weapon for when you're about to lose and you're like, "Forget it! We're going lose, activate the D-day weapon and kiss our asses good-bye."

]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 20:22:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407572 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#11 Originally by: Zungen
then a titan and a mothership should at least have a bonus to tanking or a special rep to use as they have more hp then the ships and a 9800hp repper isnt going to repair much of its base 70k armor as compare to reppers of other ships in comparision to their hps


1/7 is unusually HIGH. It's usually 1/8 or 1/9 on a armour tanking ship.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 20:18:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407595 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Zungen]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#10 ]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 20:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407617 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Andreask14]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#9
Look, fleet fights are not hour long slug fests where one ship with a tank can draw fire or protect the rest of the fleet, it cant. No ship can, regardless of its armour.

What do capitals do instead?

They hump safe-spots, support ppl that have to warp out, and lend fighter-power via their drones.
Additionally, they provide transport via jump-gates and clone bays.

They are not battle-ships, but fleet-support ships, all of them, except the dreadnaughts.

And guess what ?

Thanks to siege mode, i figure that dreads, being the only caps actually requiered to enter the frey, have the hardest armor and most direct firepower of the caps.

I dont count doomsday as a direct fire weapon because it is essentially an Area of Effect weapon, which can only be effectively used in a camp, and only once.
________________________________________________

Just a quick reminder that "Local" and "Instas" will always be what they are.]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 20:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407652 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Rider Zane]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#8
8%, 10%, or 12% more hitpoints as you can get with regenetarive plates does not achieve the kind of hp's im suggesting capital ships need. I'm talking about raising the base stats immensely to set this class of ships apart.

]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 20:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407670 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Zyrla Bladestorm]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#7 Originally by: Hllaxiu
16metre plating is a little excessive wouldn't ya think?


on ships that might be 50-100 kilometer long ? (granted, carriers are just about 4-8 km long, but the dreads are twice that and the titans dwarf those ;P )
.
-----
Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.


]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 20:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407671 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Elaron]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#6 Originally by: Rider Zane
Even if you were to try pimp out a Avatar defensively, we're looking at maybe 95,000 armor because you wont get the same increase using battleship sized mods e.g. 1600mm plates.

(add 16000mm plates maybe? Theres an idea... :))

Can't really comment on some of your other thoughts, as I'm not a capship pilot, but capital pilots looking to boost armour are more likely to mount this than a static plate - on a Naglfar, for example, one module would boost armour by 3437 points]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 19:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407690 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Eximius Josari]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#5
Even with a Slave set, the Avatar will only get about 135k armor.

Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 19:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407700 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Hllaxiu]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#4 ---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 19:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407707 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Pottsey]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#3 Edited by: Pottsey on 16/05/2006 19:58:49
Even if you were to try pimp out a Avatar defensively, we're looking at maybe 95,000 armor because you wont get the same increase using battleship sized mods e.g. 1600mm plates.
Thats because you dont use plates but instead Energized Regenerative Membrane II which are much better. Dont they gave way over 10k amour hitpoints per Regenerative Membrane?


EDIT:
An Avatar Titan has only 70,000 armor yet costs billions upon billions upon billions. Even if you were to try pimp out a Avatar defensively, we're looking at maybe 95,000 armor because you wont get the same increase using battleship sized mods e.g. 1600mm plates.
I get 70,000 base +25% from skills = 87,500. Now add 1 module for 15% more and you get 100,625k and thats without implants. You seem to be comparing a Battleship with full modules and skills to a Titan without any skills or decent modules.


Passive shield tanking guide, click here.
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 19:52:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407722 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by M00dy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722&page=1#2
]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 19:49:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407744 <![CDATA[Capital Ships need to be more 'Capital' - by Rider Zane]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=338722
A geddon battleship is only about 60-70 million, and can be pimped to 20,000+ armor with mods & skills. An Avatar Titan has only 70,000 armor yet costs billions upon billions upon billions. Even if you were to try pimp out a Avatar defensively, we're looking at maybe 95,000 armor because you wont get the same increase using battleship sized mods e.g. 1600mm plates.

(add 16000mm plates maybe? Theres an idea... :))

I'd take a geddon into battle even if i had the cash for a Avatar. Yeh you could doomsday everyone to smithereens in a Av, but if they dont engage with thier whole fleet, your ass is grass when the rest arrive after. Yes and I know Capital ships are not solo pwnmobiles (they obviously should be in fleets), what im concerned about is when in a fleet a 30 billion isk ship should not be worried by a handful of battleships shooting its armor. If anything, Capital ships should be the tanks of fleets, drawing fire.

I'm not saying make Titans or Carriers or Dreads cheaper (hell no!), im just saying they need to 'feel' capital, not just look it. If your opponents happen to have a few dreads with them in siege mode, you can kiss goodbye to your 30 billion isk Titan in maybe 2 minutes if it has anything near 70,000 armor to start.

Suggestions:
Carriers
Base Armor/Shields: 70,000-90,000
Base Structure: 60,000-90,000

Dreadnoughts
Base Armor/Shields: 130,000-150,000
Base Structure: 80,000-110,000

Motherships (why still listed under carriers ingame?)
Base Armor/Shields: 160,000-190,000
Base Structure: 120,000-130,000

Titans
Base Armor/Shields: 260,000-280,000
Base Structure: 140,000-170,000

or

increase resistances to give these sort of figures.


Whether Capital ships need an increase in shields, armor and resistances or a suite of new defensive capital modules - something needs to be done to truely set them apart.

Just some thoughts.

]]> Tue, 16 May 2009 19:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5407751