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    <title>EVE-Search ForumWatch</title>
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    <pubDate>Sun, 26 May 2013 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by MadMuppet]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=747261#post747261</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>destiny2 wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">Okay stealing virtual stuff in a game is against the law. lets go with this. but not all eve players are DUTCH! so meaning didly squat can be done to them.</div></div><br /><br />But if the crime was committed via dutch-owned and operated internet infrastructure would you be in trouble? "Sir, I need you to open that packet so I can see the data."]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Vyktor Abyss]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=747220#post747220</link>
      <description><![CDATA[I'd like the Dutch court to please hear my case because I repeatedly get murdered in Eve and the murderers keep getting away with it.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 20:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by destiny2]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=747209#post747209</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Okay stealing virtual stuff in a game is against the law. lets go with this. but not all eve players are DUTCH! so meaning didly squat can be done to them.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 20:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Nova Fox]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=746987#post746987</link>
      <description><![CDATA[I dont know who screwed up the world map but I am sure some countries are not self named as the map says.<br /><br />IE.<br />Nippon<br /><br />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Serene Repose]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=743864#post743864</link>
      <description><![CDATA[When I move to the Netherlands I'll worry about all this. Where I come from it's still illegal to spit on the deck of a steamboat.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 03:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Eternus8lux8lucis]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=743851#post743851</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Skippermonkey wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost"><div class="quote"><b>Nova Fox wrote:</b><div class="innerquote">good luck flying lawers to duschland.</div></div><br /><br />im pretty sure the dutch hail from the Netherlands</div></div><br />Thats a fallacious lie!!! NO WAY!!!]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 03:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Skippermonkey]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=743770#post743770</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Nova Fox wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">good luck flying lawers to duschland.</div></div><br /><br />im pretty sure the dutch hail from the Netherlands]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 02:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Nariya Kentaya]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=743624#post743624</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Karn Dulake wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">The Dutch are only good for high quality drugs and ****. nothing else has any value coming out of the Netherlands</div></div><br />so that 4 letter word thats censored isnt a 3 letter word, so im assuming your not referencing the red-light district... red light district being the best place to hang out IN EUROPE. (or is amsterdam not dutch? i forget... amsterdam is oen of those few small countries in europa that i never do more then visit for a night... or two.)]]></description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 2 Feb 2012 02:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Taedrin]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=743020#post743020</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Tippia wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">HmmG as a point of comparison, what happens if someone, say, car-jacks a leased car (the closest real-good equivalent I could think of)?</div></div><br /><br />I'm just an internet lawyer, but something completely different would probably happen.<br /><br />1) Thief is guilty of Grand Theft Auto, the car s/he stole was not his/her own<br />2) "Victim" does not actually own the car, s/he is still bound by the terms of his contract to return the car to the leaser.<br />3) Fortunately, as part of the terms of the contract, the "victim"s insurance pays for the theft of the car. The leaser gets their car back, and the victim's insurance probably goes up because they made a claim.<br /><br /><br />I'm a little surprised that this didn't fall under the category of extortion instead of robbery. But this isn't the United States we're talking about, so who knows. If it was extortion, then the implied ownership of virtual property would be a non-issue, since extortion (in the US at least) only requires that the victim be coerced into performing some sort of unpleasant action.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 23:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Ehn Roh]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=742176#post742176</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Saraya Velcrow wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">according to this dutch news article <a class="warn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="/default.aspx?g=warning&amp;l=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nu.nl%2fgames%2f2728943%2fstelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html&amp;domain=nu.nl" title="www.nu.nl/games/2728943/stelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html">click here</a><br />Stealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law.<br /><br />What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??<br /><br /><br /></div></div><br /><br />It's only "stealing" in real life when it's not a game mechanic and/or real life crimes are not involved (as in this case). There have been similar cases from, surprisingly, China. You're being silly and you know it.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Pak Narhoo]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741976#post741976</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Since you signed the EULA before entering the game you agree that nothing in game belongs to you but CCP.<br />So who are you stealing from or what got stolen from who?<br /><br />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by DarthNefarius]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741950#post741950</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Nova Fox wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">good luck flying lawers to duschland.</div></div><br />luftwaffe will shoot them down if the flak doesn't get them :)]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Zyress]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741833#post741833</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Pretty interesting stuff, I can see a rl assault and battery charge, but the conviction was for thievery, which was not the rl crime but the virtual crime. It does set an interesting precedent. Of course if you aren't in the Netherlands, I don't suppose it matters at all.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by 000Hunter000]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741821#post741821</link>
      <description><![CDATA[I know, but if u watch newsitems and stuff, i just think depending on teh situation and person it could be possible... Even in eve... <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_question.png" alt="What?" />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Micheal Dietrich]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741789#post741789</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>000Hunter000 wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost"><br /><br />A lil kid is threatened ingame by someone that if he doesn't eject from his ship, he will find him in RL and kill him.<br /><br />Now i know most of u think, OMG just petition/ignore/kill him ingame/whatever.<br /><br /><br /></div></div><br /><br /><br />RL threats in game are automatically a ban-able offense.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Tippia]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741760#post741760</link>
      <description><![CDATA[HmmG as a point of comparison, what happens if someone, say, car-jacks a leased car (the closest real-good equivalent I could think of)?]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by 000Hunter000]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741744#post741744</link>
      <description><![CDATA[First i LOLLED!<br /><br />But then when i read it... oh brother... they beat the kid and forced him to log on and drop off his stuff so another char could take it..<br /><br />Now i agree this is RL violence so it's only fair the guy got his stuff back... but now another hypothetical case...<br /><br />A lil kid is threatened ingame by someone that if he doesn't eject from his ship, he will find him in RL and kill him.<br /><br />Now i know most of u think, OMG just petition/ignore/kill him ingame/whatever.<br /><br />But we all know some people are more vulnerable then others so i do think this could happen.<br /><br /><br /><br />I do hope though this isn't a covert way to get ccp to ban canflipping though! <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png" alt="Lol" />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Kara Roideater]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741740#post741740</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Article 310 of the Criminal Code<br />'Any person who removes any good belonging wholly or partially to any other person with the intention of unlawfully appropriating it is guilty of theft and liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding four years or a fourth category fine.'<br /><br />The judgement found that a crime had been committed under this law, so a) the items are goods, b) they belonged in whole or part to the victim, c) they were unlwafully appropriated. I guess some mileage could be extracted from if it was claimed that the goods only belonged to the victim in part but nothing in the judgement summary gives any impression that the court proceeded under an assumption other than of whole ownership.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Zeomebuch Nova]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741726#post741726</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Where is your god... ehem... your EULA now!]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Kara Roideater]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741684#post741684</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Tippia wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost"><div class="quote"><b>Taedrin wrote:</b><div class="innerquote">What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there.</div></div>Well, it could make RMT legal, for oneG <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png" alt="Lol" /><br /><br />Basically, the precedent set simply means that, even though the items stolen don't exist, it's still (armed?) robbery rather than simple assault. There's probably some legal tongue-twisting that can be made to retain the status quo without actually diminishing the precedent: the company still owns the virtual items as the EULA claims, but the <i>right to access and use</i> said items is what's being robbedG or some such.</div></div><br /><br />The judgement is quite explicit that the goods belong to the individual, as they have to for the relevant section of the legal code to apply. Status as a good that can be owned is apparently determined by de facto control, with the court locating ownership with the individual and not with the company that owns Runescape. But most significant is that they found virtual items to be goods with value and that the value derives from the time and effort spent acquiring them. If that analysis rolls out beyond Holland then it could cause a serious headache for all MMO companies.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Tippia]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741630#post741630</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Taedrin wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there.</div></div>Well, it could make RMT legal, for oneG <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png" alt="Lol" /><br /><br />Basically, the precedent set simply means that, even though the items stolen don't exist, it's still (armed?) robbery rather than simple assault. There's probably some legal tongue-twisting that can be made to retain the status quo without actually diminishing the precedent: the company still owns the virtual items as the EULA claims, but the <i>right to access and use</i> said items is what's being robbedG or some such.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Ronald Ray Gun]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741526#post741526</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Deliberately misleading thread title is go!]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Wacktopia]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741459#post741459</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Saraya Velcrow wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">according to this dutch news article <a class="warn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="/default.aspx?g=warning&amp;l=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nu.nl%2fgames%2f2728943%2fstelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html&amp;domain=nu.nl" title="www.nu.nl/games/2728943/stelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html">click here</a><br />Stealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law.<br /><br />What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??<br /><br /><br /></div></div><br /><br />I think you missed the subtlety of the 'means'...<br /><br /><u><b>Stealing of virtual items through game-related means (e.g an in game scam) IS NOT THEFT<br /><br />Stealing of virtual items through non-game-related means (e.g hacking someone's password) IS THEFT</b></u><br /><br /><div class="quote outmost"><b>Quote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">Suspect and co-defendant f<u><b>orced the victim to violence and threats of violence to login to his account </b></u>in the online game Runescape and virtual objects to leave (dropping) in the virtual game environment.</div></div><br /><br /><a class="warn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="/default.aspx?g=warning&amp;l=http%3a%2f%2fzoeken.rechtspraak.nl%2fResultPage.aspx%3fsnelzoeken%3dt%26amp%3bsearchtype%3dljn%26amp%3bljn%3dBQ9251&amp;domain=rechtspraak.nl" title="zoeken.rechtspraak.nl/ResultPage.aspx?snelzoeken=t&amp;searchtype=ljn&amp;ljn=BQ9251">From here</a>. (NOTE: You will need to un-screw the &amp;amp; bits from the URL. <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_x.png" alt="X" /><br /><br />Just in case any bears are creaming their knickers thinking that getting freighter-ganked is somehow illegal IRL.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Kara Roideater]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741415#post741415</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Taedrin wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there.<br /><br />Now for a game like EVE Online, we won't have to worry about virtual thefts being prosecuted, because virtual thefts are a part of the game itself - similar to how you can't prosecute someone for theft when they capture your queen in a game of chess.<br /><br />But what this might mean is that CCP might have a certain degree of responsibility to make sure we have access to our virtual items.</div></div><br /><br />It's amazing how many EULA cultists in this thread are missing this point and failing to see that the ruling does actually represent a threat to their idol.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Taedrin]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=741365#post741365</link>
      <description><![CDATA[What is interesting in this case is that the courts ruled that the virtual items had an intrinsic value to the victim. This is despite the fact that the EULA clearly states that the virtual items are owned by Jagex Games Studio. This has the potential to set precedent which overturns portions of EULAs in virtually every MMO out there.<br /><br />Now for a game like EVE Online, we won't have to worry about virtual thefts being prosecuted, because virtual thefts are a part of the game itself - similar to how you can't prosecute someone for theft when they capture your queen in a game of chess.<br /><br />But what this might mean is that CCP might have a certain degree of responsibility to make sure we have access to our virtual items.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Serene Repose]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=740506#post740506</link>
      <description><![CDATA[I can't believe it's actually against the law in the Netherlands to break into someone's house, tie them up, beat them up, and force them to do something against their own will. The nerve of some countries! Haven't they heard of Freedom of Mayhem? It's in our Lebbenty-Sebbenth Amendment. " Congress shall not abridge any citizen's right to wreak havok upon any fellow citizen(s)."]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Muad 'dib]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=740460#post740460</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Stealing in game items from players is part of the game and therefore cant be stealing - you are roleplaying a theif if you steal.<br /><br />That and the fact the lisence agreement says that all components of the game including any and all items are the propety of CCP. <br /><br />You pay to login, people dont quit and demand their DB info be Zipped up and emailed to them :P]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 14:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Chribba]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=740307#post740307</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Just wait until some court deem it illegal to kill someone in-game...<br /><br />Altho don't worry, The Calm Veldspar Retirement Home can accommodate all you pirates and evildoers [:D]<br /><br />/c]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 13:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Mr Kidd]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=740291#post740291</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Not having read the article I'll guess that this is about increasing penalties for real world crimes without directly doing so. *shrugs*]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 13:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by fgft Athonille]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=740234#post740234</link>
      <description><![CDATA[being a handsome lawyer i can assure you that the violence that occured is the reason for the proceedings, not the ivrtual items]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Samantha Utama]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=739335#post739335</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Finally, risk vs reward for hi-sec ganking has been fixed. <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png" alt="Lol" />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 09:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by NaturalBeast]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=739082#post739082</link>
      <description><![CDATA[If we are talking about the MSNBC story, then its pretty obvious. This more about the way the items were obtained outside of game.<br /><br />Quoted from the article: "It said he and another youth beat and kicked the boy and threatened him with a knife until he logged into "RuneScape" and dropped the objects in 2007."<br /><br />Frankly I am a bit surprised the kid only got 144 hours of Community service for pulling a knife. Maybe the judge wasn't a fan of Runescape.<br />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 07:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Caellach Marellus]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=738479#post738479</link>
      <description><![CDATA[The property stolen isn't the reason for the charge here, it's the means used to procure it.<br /><br />If the kid was held to ransom in game through game mechanics there's no issue.<br /><br /><br />This has now become my worst example of metagaming though, WoW's internet sabotage group from 2006 have finally been beaten.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 03:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Gogela]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=738388#post738388</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Gawwwwd. What a BS thread. In the US this might kick up several of the charges to Felonies due to accessing systems outside of the state as a component of the crime, but aside from several obvious criminal charges the attackers in that article would face, that kid would be in a very actionable position for a litany of civil suits against them. (<i>Read: the victim would make the attackers bleed money out of their a**es for life</i>) You don't need a special law for that. <br /><br />n-b-4 troll thread moved to OOPE...]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 02:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Anya Ohaya]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=738264#post738264</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Maybe they were prosecuted for robbery rather than theft.<br /><br />Robbery and Theft are not quite the same thing. Robbery is taking something using force, violence, threats etc. The victim does not need to be the owner of the goods in question. If you mug a postman and steal the mail it's still considered robbery.<br /><br />Edit:<br /><br />From <a class="warn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="/default.aspx?g=warning&amp;l=http%3a%2f%2fwww.msnbc.msn.com%2fid%2f46207779%2fns%2ftechnology_and_science-games%2f%23.TyhXP_mJLd5&amp;domain=msn.com" title="www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46207779/ns/technology_and_science-games/#.TyhXP_mJLd5">this article</a> it seems they used a knife. They were lucky to get off with community service - in some jurisdictions aggravated robbery carries a life sentence.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 01:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Mars Theran]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=738252#post738252</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Quote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">THE HAGUE - The grabbing of a virtual amulet and mask in an online computer is stolen. Virtual assets have value because much time and effort has gone to collect the goods.</div></div> - Close approximation of the translation of the ruling, for your amusement.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 01:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Rene Fullchest]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=738221#post738221</link>
      <description><![CDATA[This has come up before. I am surprised that so many seem to think this is something new.<br /><br />The EULA clearly states that all items IN the game belong to them, not to the players. Any money a player pays to CCP is ONLY for access to their game servers.<br /><br />Given CCP's own terms of use, and despite whatever ruling some Dutch court makes, it does not apply to the vast majority of Eve players. It sets no precedents whatsoever.<br /><br />As many have said, the 'crime' appears to have been a real world crime, not an in-game crime.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 01:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Krios Ahzek]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=738076#post738076</link>
      <description><![CDATA[holy **** I'm deleting my skyrim thief save]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 00:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Ai Shun]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737998#post737998</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Sansha's Nation vs Saraya Velcrow. Followed a few weeks later by the new emboldened Guristas vs Saraya Velcrow. There is a lot of ISK begging that they'll be wanting back, you thief! <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png" alt="Lol" />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 1 Feb 2012 00:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Nephilius]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737901#post737901</link>
      <description><![CDATA[I guess there is precedent in Holland then. But that won't affect anyone else throughout the rest of the world, unless someone can absolutely convince a judge to view said Dutch precedent as a valid reason to further their own case.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Freyya]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737869#post737869</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Karn Dulake wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">The Dutch are only good for high quality drugs and ****. nothing else has any value coming out of the Netherlands</div></div><br /><br />Id say thats 2 of the best things you can be good for really <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png" alt="Lol" /> ohh and dont forget some of the big advances in both medical and IT related fields which make your health and every dat life that much better. CCP Eris was Dutch iirc. Dunno of shes still with ccp though. Havent heard of her in a long time.<br /><br />Dutch and proud of it! <img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_twisted.png" alt="Twisted" />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Ris Dnalor]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737614#post737614</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Saraya Velcrow wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">according to this dutch news article <a class="warn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="/default.aspx?g=warning&amp;l=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nu.nl%2fgames%2f2728943%2fstelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html&amp;domain=nu.nl" title="www.nu.nl/games/2728943/stelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html">click here</a><br />Stealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law.<br /><br />What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??<br /><br /><br /></div></div><br /><br />CCP owns all the virtual items in EVE, and we agree to that when we click "accept".<br /><br />So, I suppose CCP could sue someone for theft of their imaginary stuffs, but since we don't own it, we can't.<br /><br />:)<br />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Killstealing]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737610#post737610</link>
      <description><![CDATA[**** this country]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Feligast]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737517#post737517</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Shizuken wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost"><div class="quote"><b>Jita Alt666 wrote:</b><div class="innerquote">Op's interpretation would mean that all ingame wars were subject to the geneva convention. </div></div><br /><br />One simple thing for the OP to remember when interpreting law, as I learned in law school, is that if you have two possible interpretations, one of which leads to absurdity and the other to something more reasonable, then the path taken by the courts will probably be the latter, not the former...<br /></div></div><br /><br />But not always. Absurdity in the court is not unheard of.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Shizuken]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737510#post737510</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Jita Alt666 wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">Op's interpretation would mean that all ingame wars were subject to the geneva convention. </div></div><br /><br />One simple thing for the OP to remember when interpreting law, as I learned in law school, is that if you have two possible interpretations, one of which leads to absurdity and the other to something more reasonable, then the path taken by the courts will probably be the latter, not the former...<br />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Serene Repose]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737323#post737323</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Who's going to sue first for emotional distress??]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Serge Bastana]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737309#post737309</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Come back, you've got my tankard!]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Skywalker]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737315#post737315</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Oh ****, means i got years of prison ahead of me.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Jovan Geldon]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737304#post737304</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Saraya Velcrow wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??</div></div><br /><br />You guess wrong bro. Everything in the game is by default the property of CCP thanks to the EULA you all clicked throguh without reading, so no-one can "steal" anything.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Karn Dulake]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737272#post737272</link>
      <description><![CDATA[The Dutch are only good for high quality drugs and ****. nothing else has any value coming out of the Netherlands]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by E man Industries]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737258#post737258</link>
      <description><![CDATA[We don't own our characters or ISK.......<br />CCP does<br />Ergo you can't steal from me. You steal from my character that CCP owns to your character that CCP owns that CCP lets us use.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Jita Alt666]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737127#post737127</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Op's interpretation would mean that all ingame wars were subject to the geneva convention.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Spacing Cowboy]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737078#post737078</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Ugh, bad , bad interpertation..<br /><br />A guy was robbed by "real life" violence, and forced to log into his game account ( runescape or something )<br />and, by use of fisical ( real world ) force, forced to give up the goods "ingame"<br /><br />Thats all..<br /><br />Basicly, the cubcake's didn't take his lunch money but some stuff out of his game<br /><br /><br />( so this has nothing to do with our robbing/pillage streaks in this fine eve-world )]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Esrevid Nekkeg]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737076#post737076</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Jaari Val'Dara wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">Translator isn't working very well, so I'm not sure if it's correct, but as I understand the theft was done via means outside of the game. So it's rather different than the thefts in EVE.</div></div>You're correct. The ruling was about two boys using physical violence IRL to force a third boy to log into Runescape and hand over some Items to them in-game.<br />As for EvE, I don't believe CCP would condone using RL violence to force other players to hand over their goods in the EvE universe. <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/banning.asp" title="www.eveonline.com/pnp/banning.asp">SUSPENSION AND BAN POLICY</a>section 3: Harassment.<br /><br />The way thievery is made possible in this game, as a choice a player can make, is good. Using RL violence to get in-game items is not.<br />In my book, the Dutch supreme court had it right . <br /><br />This time......<img src="/Images/Emoticons/ccp_blink.png" alt="Blink" />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Feligast]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737066#post737066</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Richard Kyanka wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost"><div class="quote"><b>Nova Fox wrote:</b><div class="innerquote">good luck flying lawers to duschland.</div></div><br />I know a few virtual lawyers. Any help?</div></div><br /><br />What do you mean? This thread will soon be full of em.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Famble]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737042#post737042</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Jita Alt666 wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost"><div class="quote"><b>Opertone wrote:</b><div class="innerquote">as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.<br /><br />Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.<br /><br />Which is it about?</div></div><br /><br /><br />The second. They held a 13 year old kid down and beat him till he agreed to log into the game and transfer his stuff over.<br /><br />OP needs to learn about context.</div></div><br /><br />/Thread]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Richard Kyanka]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737030#post737030</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Nova Fox wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">good luck flying lawers to duschland.</div></div><br />I know a few virtual lawyers. Any help?]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Eternus8lux8lucis]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737025#post737025</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Ive been waiting for something like this to start happening and setting precedence in legal matters. What intrigues me is that Eve is built on piracy and theft in terms of its motto and playstyle which is very different to what 1st world nations and legalism uses on a daily basis. So the legal wrangling issues stemming from this game will be truly unique.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Corina Jarr]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737026#post737026</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Saraya Velcrow wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">according to this dutch news article <a class="warn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="/default.aspx?g=warning&amp;l=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nu.nl%2fgames%2f2728943%2fstelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html&amp;domain=nu.nl" title="www.nu.nl/games/2728943/stelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html">click here</a><br />Stealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law.<br /><br />What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??<br /><br /><br /></div></div><br />This only applies to theft outside of the game.<br /><br />IE, if you hacked in order to steal the items.<br /><br /><br /><br />Stealing via intended game mechanics is still perfectly legal...]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Nova Fox]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=737011#post737011</link>
      <description><![CDATA[good luck flying lawers to duschland.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Tippia]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736988#post736988</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Opertone wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.<br /><br />Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.<br /><br />Which is it about?</div></div><br />The latter. It was basically a real-world robbery where the thing coerced from the victim just happened to be a virtual item rather than something from the kid's wallet.<br /><br />Can't say that I'm familiar with the Dutch legal system, but I am having a hard time seeing it extend to losses due to what a game defines as legal gameplay. It would be a bit like prosecuting people for murder when they shoot each other in the face in [generic multiplayer fps]. vOv]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Dowla Daupor]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736992#post736992</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Opertone wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.<br /><br />Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.<br /><br />Which is it about?</div></div><br /><br />I would guess the latter, though we could possibly use this against CCP because it presumes virtual items we bought are our property. So the next step is pooling our resources, forming a credit union and pushing CCP out, then selling EVE for profit.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Jita Alt666]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736976#post736976</link>
      <description><![CDATA[<div class="quote outmost"><b>Opertone wrote:</b><div class="innerquote outmost">as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.<br /><br />Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.<br /><br />Which is it about?</div></div><br /><br /><br />The second. They held a 13 year old kid down and beat him till he agreed to log into the game and transfer his stuff over.<br /><br />OP needs to learn about context.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Opertone]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736953#post736953</link>
      <description><![CDATA[as in game stealing, i.e. legitimate pickpocket, marauder, robbery, unfair trade.<br /><br />Or stealing through malicious soft, hacking, hijacking, scams and unethical practices, such as intimidation and house infiltration. Out of game.<br /><br />Which is it about?]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Lady Spank]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736936#post736936</link>
      <description><![CDATA[I'm sure CCP will take advantage of this to send out claims of theft of THEIR property.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Jaari Val'Dara]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736911#post736911</link>
      <description><![CDATA[Translator isn't working very well, so I'm not sure if it's correct, but as I understand the theft was done via means outside of the game. So it's rather different than the thefts in EVE.]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Micheal Dietrich]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736894#post736894</link>
      <description><![CDATA[In before move to OOPE]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Saraya Velcrow]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=736884#post736884</link>
      <description><![CDATA[according to this dutch news article <a class="warn" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="/default.aspx?g=warning&amp;l=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nu.nl%2fgames%2f2728943%2fstelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html&amp;domain=nu.nl" title="www.nu.nl/games/2728943/stelen-in-computerspel-diefstal.html">click here</a><br />Stealing virtual items in games is considered By the dutch supreme court real theft and thus a criminal act punishable by law.<br /><br />What does CCP think about this i guess a countries supreme court overrules TOS from ccp ??<br /><br /><br />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
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      <title><![CDATA[stealing virtual items is also theft in RL (according to dutch supreme court) - by Lurk]]></title>
      <link>https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&amp;m=1#1#post1#1</link>
      <description><![CDATA[As far as i know (only been in one) event master currently fly around, recruiting volunteers in local. I'd like a system where those volunteers are hired through agents. So if you happen to be in the area and make a navy mission for example you could offered to take part in that particular event. Of course, declinng that mission would have no impact on your standing.<br />]]></description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
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