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EVE-Search ForumWatch http://eve-search.com/ The alternative EVE-Online Forum browser. en-us Thu, 4 Dec 2008 00:00:00 +0000 EVE-Search RSS Module v1.0 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Shaemell Buttleson]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#111
Anyone know offhand the range of javs with maxed skills from a Raven?

Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com - Cortes ]]> Mon, 3 Dec 2008 03:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6857313 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Noisrevbus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#110 Edited by: Noisrevbus on 03/12/2007 02:35:23

Originally by: NoNah
but saying that caldari are affected directly by the drone changes as gallente

Originally by: Atsuko Ratu

False logic. Gal are effected in the same way as Caldari. The ships you are looking for are "drone boats". Even if they are Gal in nature, there are Gal ships that use drones in the same way as Caldari.

It's not necessarily an entirely false logic. There are two issues with it though: it's referred to in extremes, and it's often misleadingly cross-referenced by most posters at their own discretion or when it suits them. So i would say that both of you have a point, i don't discredit Nonah's point about Gallente being generally more drone-oriented and would thus suffer slightly more should drones themselves become impoverished (do not mistake that for fixing scoop-exploits though). It's a question of being able to assume both aspects though and not put so much value into either of them that you become blind of the other: Certain changes impact differently on the races depending on how reliant they are on them, but at the same time they usually also affect all races at least to a certain degree.

What Nonah doesn't do however is aknowledge that in return to Caldari. If Gallente is the drone race above all, then Caldari are the sniper race bar none. Additionally, we have alot of ships whose primary (and sometimes only role) is not sniping alone, but also sniping smaller and mobile targets (support-sniping, or being the 'ass' as someone else so promptly put it). What do you think the changes to sensors and tracking computers do for those ships? Ranged ships also suffer quite alot from the damp nerf (even if i stem in with the general consensus that the module was too good, and now the only things left to deal with are the webs and scrams Razz

).

There are alot of Caldari ships that effectively suffer from this patch, and by Nonah's principle suffer more than other. All our ships dedicated to sniping, and especially all our ships dedicated to small-scale sniping. This while you can truthfully argue (by Atsuko's principle) that all ships can snipe and will get hurt by the changes, Caldari have more ships that excel in the role and some ships that don't have much other prominent roles outside of that. If Gallente is the drone race, then Caldari is equally the sniping race. So if you wish to argue a coin, be fair and honest enough to argue both sides of the coin. I'm sure there are alot of Eagle pilots around who are not thrilled with the proposed changes. I know that i am definately not considering the Trinity patch a buff for my skills invested in long-range warfare on Caldari ships.
]]> Mon, 3 Dec 2008 02:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6856997 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Tarron Sarek]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#109 Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 03/12/2007 00:42:42

Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin
Originally by: Tarron Sarek

I'm not against PvP boosts for Caldari ships, but.. without reduced PvE effectiveness it really is unbalanced, yes.
Are you familiar with the torpedo changes?

Gee, yes I am.
But it's not like the Caracal isn't still the best L2, Drake still the best L3 and Raven with Cruise still the best L4 mission ship, no?
Was talking about 'Caldari ships', not 'the Raven', right?
Come on, show some objectiveness.

___________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well -

Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters]]> Mon, 3 Dec 2008 00:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6856373 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by AetomHaert Mother]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#108 Edited by: AetomHaert Mother on 01/12/2007 04:12:02
well i dont fly gallente drone boats anyway, i like blasters. tracking computers and tracking disruptors might need a boost after this patch. i see what they were doing, ill wait to see how things pan out before i comment on the execution. also, you forgot that with all these added nerfs, sniping will now be owned by the rokh, so i am glad i can fly one too.
]]> Sat, 1 Dec 2008 04:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6843594 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by welsh wizard]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#107

Originally by: Paulo Damarr

Originally by: bellass
it is caldari propaganda that missiles suck in pvp.

Show us on the dolly where the nasty Drake touched you...

lol
[Balance] The Caldari problem.]]> Sat, 1 Dec 2008 01:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6842785 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Atsuko Ratu]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#106

Originally by: MasterDecoy

+ thorax cap use bonus change

Very Happy

Cookie for you's; Less whine More happy; People

]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 23:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6842346 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Paulo Damarr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#105

Originally by: bellass

it is caldari propaganda that missiles suck in pvp.

Show us on the dolly where the nasty Drake touched you...

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time

]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 16:19:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6839075 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Incantare]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#104

Originally by: bellass

i have different views on the scoring but agree in general. gallente had two of their unbalanced ships corrected and an exploit removed. turrets of all types took a large nerf. and caldari, the most popular race, got more boosting increasing their imbalance. it is caldari propaganda that missiles suck in pvp, they do a huge amount of damage consistently with little impact from movement except in extreme cases of very fast ships.

the main point though is that this will only add to the numbers joining the caldari online ranks and make any attempt to balance this in the future impossible by ccp for fear of losing their fastest growing client base.

Not again.
]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 12:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6837554 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Incantare]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#103

Originally by: Kuzya Morozov

Yah, look under that race under your name...you have a very neutral point of view, don't you?

I chose Caldari initially but that doesn't mean much. I am blaster specced and the ships I fly the most are the Thorax and Myrm -these nerfs will affect me directly but that doesn't change my opinions.
]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 12:32:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6837501 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by bellass]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#102
the main point though is that this will only add to the numbers joining the caldari online ranks and make any attempt to balance this in the future impossible by ccp for fear of losing their fastest growing client base.
]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 12:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6837364 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Khes]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#101 Edited by: Khes on 30/11/2007 07:52:04

Originally by: Tarron Sarek
.
I'm not against PvP boosts for Caldari ships, but.. without reduced PvE effectiveness it really is unbalanced, yes.

I say that the torp range reduction is reducing the PvE effectiveness.

Edit: yes, I now noticed that this was allready answered, sorry Embarassed

]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 07:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6836185 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by MasterDecoy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#100 + thorax cap use bonus change

Very Happy

Originally by: Evilempire1
good, im pentitioning you for slandering.

]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 05:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835742 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Danjira Ryuujin]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#99

Originally by: Tarron Sarek

I'm not against PvP boosts for Caldari ships, but.. without reduced PvE effectiveness it really is unbalanced, yes.

Are you familiar with the torpedo changes?

Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 04:37:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835637 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Ogul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#98

Originally by: Tarron Sarek

I'm not against PvP boosts for Caldari ships, but.. without reduced PvE effectiveness it really is unbalanced, yes.

That is going to happen in Trinity, the reduced torp range will make them useless for missions.

---
This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 03:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835422 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by d026]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#97

Originally by: Tarron Sarek

Now players will not only create tons of Achura chars and/or grind L4's in Raven/CNR/Golem. No, in addition to Crows we will see tons of Ravens in PvP. Probably also even more Drakes.

yeah like you see only caldari ships pvping Rolling Eyes

]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 03:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835346 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Tarron Sarek]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#96 Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 30/11/2007 02:53:36

Originally by: Incantare
Did it ever occur to you that Caldari isn't balanced as is and needs these buffs?

Of course.
Best in PvE and not good in PvP just isn't balanced.
Best in PvE and bearable to brute in PvP is much better.

I'm not against PvP boosts for Caldari ships, but.. without reduced PvE effectiveness it really is unbalanced, yes.

Now players will not only create tons of Achura chars and/or grind L4's in Raven/CNR/Golem. No, in addition to Crows we will see tons of Ravens in PvP. Probably also even more Drakes.

___________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well -

Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 02:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835263 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Kuzya Morozov]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#95

Originally by: Incantare

Did it ever occur to you that Caldari isn't balanced as is and needs these buffs?

It's unfortunate Amarr weren't given their oomph in this patch but the devs have stated they are looking at the issue.

Many of the Gallente nerfs were much needed, some less so.

In short: shut up.

Yah, look under that race under your name...you have a very neutral point of view, don't you?
]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 02:36:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835160 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Atsuko Ratu]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#94

Originally by: NoNah

Stuffs

Valid but not so much. Caldari got a few things in this patch and it doesn't amount to as much as everyone thinks. It's not really fair to say that one nerf boosts Caldari as a whole. The rook won't be more effective just because the Gal recon got nerfed, that doesn't make sense. You could argue that the Rook is now more effective THAN the Gal recons, but the rook itself is unchanged (aside from the added lowslot to bring it to par with the changed falcon).

The falcon, bb, scorp, were fixed in my eyes. I hated flying the falcon simply because it's chance to jam anything bigger than a cruiser was laughable, even with every slot geared towards the role.

The bonus boost was a FIX, not a buff.

The drone scoop redeploy was not a nerf to Gal. It was a unintended exploit that was left unchanged for some time. It does not effect Gal any more than any race in a reasonable comparision. It is now easier to cripple a droneboat yes, but it is now easier to cripple every ships DPS in the same way, not to mention the drone boats will now have plenty of extras. One could even argue that it effects the drone boats less than the average ship.

Again, this was not a nerf. It fixed something that was unintentially added to the gameplay.

What is left?

ECM gets a 40% cap reduction. Not that big a deal. With decent skills a blackbird can run 5 multispecs no problem as it is (assuming its best named and not t2). This change was probably added to make it easier to use the frigate Ewar and perhaps to make MWDs run easier on falcons and rooks (the only effective not-chanced-based way of living in said ships; all slots are dedicated to curb the crippled Ewar module).

Torps were increased in dps but decreased in range. It can easily be argued that this cancaled itself out. We will lose effectivness in pve but gain miles in pvp, something Caldari needed in terms of a dps ship. You also pretty much need a TP to hit a non-moving BS for full damage, assuming it isn't using anything that increases sig radius.

Increases agility. A random boost that really makes a difference. Caldari were the slowest, fatting, and agile-less ships in game, and now they turn the fastest. Woo.

Caldari nerfs include the flycatcher speed. It was already the slowest, now it's speed will rival the Drakes. Our railgun users are hurt from the same changes as any other ship, and believe it or not we also use sensorboosters. One could argue, as so many others do about other points, that a nerf to tracking distrubters also nerfs Caldari missle users. Ships will now fit these less often, making them fit modules that will actually work against Caldari missleboats (and drone users). More ravens indirectly means more EM weaknesses, a silent boost to Amarr.

This is by no means a patch geared directly at Caldari. Many of the whines target fixes that effect every race. I do agree that the Eos was nerfed to hell, and damps need to be fixed for the dedicated ships. These fixes to Caldari and exactly the same things people are complaining about for Gal. Dedicated ship boosts and DPS boosts (Drone bandwidth = less DPS for the big hitters prepatch)

To many people look at the races and not the individual ships. How is a boost to the Falcon itself a boost to Caldari? No other ship in the race benefits from this boost, and training a cruiser skill to 5 is by no means a lifetime commitment. Things such as agility boosts help Caldari as a whole, and it is fair to say this boosts Caldari. The torp boost is not a boost to Caldari, it only helps 2 of their ships and one from the Minmitars. (Zomg Minmitar boost!?!?)

Originally by: NoNah
but saying that caldari are affected directly by the drone changes as gallente

False logic. Gal are effected in the same way as Caldari. The ships you are looking for are "drone boats". Even if they are Gal in nature, there are Gal ships that use drones in the same way as Caldari.

]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 02:34:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835159 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Ogul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#93

Originally by: NoNah

The point of op was not that caldari needed or didn't need a boost. It's the magnitude.

And that magnitude was terribly misrepresented in the OP by counting... well... something strange.

Originally by: NoNah

If two men are using crutches, one due to a sprained ankle with a single crutch and the other's an amuptee with two, will the amputee suffer less from lesser quality crutches as he's got two?

Not everything that is lopsided is necessarily a comparison.

---
This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 02:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6835066 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by NoNah]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#92
20% of the replies actually read the op. Half of these read the replies, and a fraction of those understood the point of it.

The point of op was not that caldari needed or didn't need a boost. It's the magnitude. Yes, caldari needed a boost, and believe it or not, so did minmatar, gallente and amarr. Gallente needed a nerf, so did caldari, minmatar and amarr(actually not so sure about amarr, but... whatever).

And seems few here even comprehend what balance even means. Yes, changing a mod affects the viability of other mods. Add to one scale or deduct from another, balance will be shifted the same way.

And as such most of the changes can be considered affecting everyone, but saying that caldari are affected directly by the drone changes as gallente... my god.
If two men are using crutches, one due to a sprained ankle with a single crutch and the other's an amuptee with two, will the amputee suffer less from lesser quality crutches as he's got two?

Perhaps it's time to stop jumping to conclusions that everyone is after an easier time, better ships for themselves and jumps to the boards as to whine everytime they lose? How about... reading, comprehending or perhaps even trying both?

Postcount: 507269
]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 00:52:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834718 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by madaluap]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=4#91 Edited by: madaluap on 30/11/2007 00:39:05

Originally by: Haradgrim
Originally by: Liang Nuren
LOTS OF QUOTE STUFF

I'll concede your point about Caldari being the worst at solo combat pre-patch, that was really just a shot at Amarr ().

So what you are saying is that post-patch:

Caldari have a better solo-pvp ship than the Domi (amarr too for that matter according to your list)

Caldari have a ship(s) you feel is/are better than the Vaga or Sabre, and to a lesser extent mega, deimos, domi, etc in a small gang?

Somehow your believe that the mega and hyperion will make worse fleet snipers than laser boats, or that the tracking nerf didnt effect the rokh..... at least the mega has a damage and tracking bonus which will reduce the impact of the changes.....

These changes have enabled Caldari to be more than the cannon fodder they have been for quite some time. I do agree however that Amarr got nerfed when they didnt need it.

Im gonna bother with this post tommorow, but ill give you some hints:

Solo pvp in a bs?
Longest range bs with tracking comps and sensorboosters requiring scripts?
ECM boost and ECM scorpion boost, while only valuable EW besides ECM is nerfed?
Damageboost to the raven?
Agility boost to caldari?

Fullout droneboat nerf?
Shortrange crapboats being outdamaged bigtime, while keeping ca****ues? (in situations where you dont drop out 2 km from your target each time, also known as the non-EFT world)

I couldnt care less, but that list you posted before was way, way off.
_________________________________________________
Breetime

A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 00:37:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834717 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Paulo Damarr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#90

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Haha, thank you for your thoughts, but you havent read anything have you?

Its you that hasn't read anything, check this:-

Originally by: Brodde Dim

And why did you quote me saying that I usually dont fly gallente ships, and then reply with "your gallente toys"

In fact I posted "you need to do is look at the wider picture and not just your own modified toys"

Originally by: Brodde Dim

The thread isnt about balance.

Really? what does this mean then?

Originally by: Brodde Dim

when it results in over zealous balancing actions.

Originally by: Brodde Dim

The original list does not include every ship that is affected, because since every race use drones and RSD, it will even out. )

I'm missing the part where a biased and lopsided set of bunkum statistics that is little more than a poor attempt to justify your "Caldari online" rant evens itself out.

You even sum your own thread up perfectly,

Originally by: Brodde Dim

it is about whining

twice

Originally by: Brodde Dim

The point was whining

The amount of changes to a race is irrelevant its the actual changes themselves and how they fit into the larger picture.

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time

]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 00:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834559 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Danjira Ryuujin]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#89 Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 30/11/2007 00:21:01

Originally by: Brodde Dim

To no suprise, its another victory for the veterans of the caldari whine squads, and this time it wasnt much of a fight.

Thats comical. The Amarr B-team is a better whine squad than the Caldari A-team. Gallente has put together an impressive whine squad this last patch too. I'm looking forward to future forum whinefests.

Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 00:18:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834558 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Kruel]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#88
I'm more upset about the TC, SB, and TD nerfs.

Tracking Comps and Sensor Boosters were fine. CCP are "balancing" fleet warfare by nerfing mods that were never overpowered in other situations (PVE, small gang warfare).

And the TD nerf... wtf? When the hell EVER were Tracking Disruptors overpowered??? I just don't understand that one.

As for damps... yeah they needed to be nudged down a bit. But damps were the only thing keeping the Curse alive. Not sure what I'll do with my favorite recon now.
]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2008 00:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834508 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Brodde Dim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#87

Originally by: Paulo Damarr

If your so concerned about balance the first thing you need to do is understand that one items boost is not another items nerf. The second thing you need to do is look at the wider picture and not just your own modified toys, for example the drone scoop nerf affects all the races not just the Gallente and it can be argued that the Gallente drone ships suffer less than other races ships because they can carry spares and its the same with RSDs every race is using them so they are all affected, it does hit the Gallente recons more but at least your EW module has consistent effects that can relied on to do what the specs say every time the Caldari ECM is still chance based and next to useless on the unbonused ships where as RSDs still may have some use.

Haha, thank you for your thoughts, but you havent read anything have you?

The thread isnt about balance. I have not compared the ships to each other, or even the changes to eachother. It was about how much is done at once. The point was whining and overcompensation.

One items boost could make another item less usefull. But in this case it is 1 kind of EW that gets boosted, while 2 other gets a huge nerf.

The original list does not include every ship that is affected, because since every race use drones and RSD, it will even out. The list only includes ship that gets hit harder since they are specialized in it.

Quote:
at least your EW module has consistent effects that can relied on to do what the specs say every time the Caldari ECM is still chance based and next to useless on the unbonused ships where as RSDs still may have some use.

If it isnt on a specialized ship it is not a gallente module. The only time when race matters to EW is when they have a bonus for it on their ships. And to a limited effect when it only works on certain setups like TDs.

And why did you quote me saying that I usually dont fly gallente ships, and then reply with "your gallente toys" =)
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 23:38:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834341 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Paulo Damarr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#86

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 23:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834187 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Atsuko Ratu]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#85

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Originally by: Paulo Damarr
Sucks to be Gallente, and the best bit is now your ships are baby blue

OP and his supporters need to stop crying because every ship they have is no longer at the top of its class. The Amarr have it worse than Gallente talk about kicking someone when their down.

Yet another nerf to Caldari, sigh Laughing

I want baby blue colored ships damn it.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 23:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834186 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Brodde Dim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#84

Originally by: Paulo Damarr

Sucks to be Gallente, and the best bit is now your ships are baby blue Laughing

OP and his supporters need to stop crying because every ship they have is no longer at the top of its class. The Amarr have it worse than Gallente talk about kicking someone when their down.

You are assuming that I fly mostly gallente ships. Wich isnt true, I fly mostly amarr and caldari. This is beside the point though, the first post is not about the ships, it is about whining, and when it results in over zealous balancing actions.

And the blue gallente T1 scheme is a lot better than the rust colored caldari T2 =)
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 22:58:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6834042 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Atsuko Ratu]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#83 Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 29/11/2007 22:32:47
Woo, ecm is slightly more effective and the 1% of raven pilots that use torps in pvp (or use the raven in pvp at all) will now do dps on par with other gank ships.

Also, op forgot to add '-1' to caldari for losing easy-pveing, a fact that many a carebear still whine about.

*Not trying to start a cruisemissle-pve-r rant*

The gal nerfs were light ('cept the Eos, roffle) and needed in my opinion, and I've never viewed Amarr as being that far behind anyone; lasers have always been the coolest weapon and the Amarr ships are just pretty Rolling Eyes

I put scoop-deploy nerf into the "fix" bin simply because nearly every pvp ship relys on drones in one way or another.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 22:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833809 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Liang Nuren]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#82

Originally by: Ulstan

Yes yes, I'm sure all the gallente are sad that we're moving away from "Gallente Online".

Really, gallente got handed far more nerfs than caldari did buffs, and that's why you're upset.

Yeah, I think "we're" all more upset by the nerfs than the Caldari buffs. ;-)

Liang

--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.

Yarr?]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 22:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833635 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Exlegion]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#81 Edited by: Exlegion on 29/11/2007 21:58:33

Originally by: OOOSOOO
Woot! Caldari pwns you allzorz!!!

You're a floating head.

On topic: Caldari are going to just OMGWHY!1WTFPWNOOOO!!1!BBQ!!1 EVERYTHING according to the score we just got from the OP Very Happy

.

/in Eric Cartman's voice/
Sweet.
/end/

One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833634 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Ulstan]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#80
Really, gallente got handed far more nerfs than caldari did buffs, and that's why you're upset.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833523 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Haradgrim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#79
Welcome Gallente players to our world! lol Rolling Eyes

Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches
Oh Noes!

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833522 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Paulo Damarr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#78

Originally by: OOOSOOO

Woot! Caldari pwns you allzorz!!!

All yea bow down to the floating head of wisdom!

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:53:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833521 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by OOOSOOO]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#77 ----------------------------------
I post therefore I am bored at work.]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833520 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Paulo Damarr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#76

OP and his supporters need to stop crying because every ship they have is no longer at the top of its class. The Amarr have it worse than Gallente talk about kicking someone when their down.

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833453 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Haradgrim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#75

Originally by: Liang Nuren

LOTS OF QUOTE STUFF

I'll concede your point about Caldari being the worst at solo combat pre-patch, that was really just a shot at Amarr ( Rolling Eyes

).

So what you are saying is that post-patch:

Caldari have a better solo-pvp ship than the Domi (amarr too for that matter according to your list)

Caldari have a ship(s) you feel is/are better than the Vaga or Sabre, and to a lesser extent mega, deimos, domi, etc in a small gang?

Somehow your believe that the mega and hyperion will make worse fleet snipers than laser boats, or that the tracking nerf didnt effect the rokh..... at least the mega has a damage and tracking bonus which will reduce the impact of the changes.....

These changes have enabled Caldari to be more than the cannon fodder they have been for quite some time. I do agree however that Amarr got nerfed when they didnt need it.
Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches
Oh Noes!

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833452 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Rudy Metallo]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#74

Originally by: the thorn

Edited by: the thorn on 29/11/2007 08:06:54

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

Don't use multispecs.

blackbird with 3 multispec jammers is not cap stable
blackbird with 4 racial jammers is not cap stable

(using the goodol All level V)
(nothing else, you dont have slots for cap mods anyway.)

Try 2 Multispecs and a Racial.

Or hell, get creative and have a cap transfer ship right next to you (Augoror is a cheap and easy-to-use one I can think of)
--

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833293 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Liang Nuren]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#73

Originally by: Haradgrim

Ok here is the reality of it

Pre-patch:

Solo PvP ranking:

1. Minmatar
2. Gallente
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

Erm, No.

1. Gallente
2. Minmatar
3. Amarr
4. Caldari

Quote:

Gang PVP Ranking

1. Gallente
2. Minmatar
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

1. Caldari
2. Amarr
3. Minmatar
4. Galante

Quote:

Fleet PVP ranking

1. Gallente
2. Caldari
3. Minmatar
4. Amarr (this is more or less a tie between Amarr and Minmatar)

Sure...

Quote:

After the Patch:

Solo PvP ranking:

1. Minmatar
2. Gallente
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

1. Minmatar
2. Caldari
3. Amarr
4. Gallente

Quote:

Gang PVP Ranking

1. Gallente
2. Minmatar
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

1. Caldari
2. Amarr
3. Minmatar
4. Gallente

Quote:

Fleet PVP ranking

1. Gallente
2. Caldari
3. Minmatar
4. Amarr

1. Caldari
2. Minmatar
3. Amarr
4. Gallente

Much more likely.

Liang

--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.

Yarr?]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833242 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Haradgrim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#72
Pre-patch:

Solo PvP ranking:

1. Minmatar
2. Gallente
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

Gang PVP Ranking

1. Gallente
2. Minmatar
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

Fleet PVP ranking

1. Gallente
2. Caldari
3. Minmatar
4. Amarr (this is more or less a tie between Amarr and Minmatar)

After the Patch:

Solo PvP ranking:

1. Minmatar
2. Gallente
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

Gang PVP Ranking

1. Gallente
2. Minmatar
3. Caldari
4. Amarr

Fleet PVP ranking

1. Gallente
2. Caldari
3. Minmatar
4. Amarr

Stop whining, Caldari have needed a buff since Amarr were still good! Laughing

But yes, I feel sorry for the Amarr, and the tracking disrupter nerf really is rediculous, talk about adding insult to injury lol Rolling Eyes

Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches
Oh Noes!

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 21:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6833241 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Jezala]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#71
First big mistake was treating this buff/nerf point tally crap as a zero-sum game. I don't know where you got the idea, but when you balance a design it is not a requirement (much less recommended) that you must make changes based on a "equivalent trade" principle. That's just plain ignorant to treat the buffs/nerfs in a closed system environment.

Second mistake was failing to add a weighted value to each of the buffs/nerfs. Can you honestly say that that ECM cap buff is 5 times more important than the torp buff? All you're doing is skewing the numbers to make your argument appear to look legit.

Third mistake was that you failed to scrub the patch notes for all direct and indirect changes that may buff/nerf each race. That's just ******* sloppy of you. Do yourself a favor and redo your data collection and analysis properly and objectively.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 19:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6832619 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Tovarishch]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#70
The OP is ridiculous. The exaggerated manner in which you attempt to present the new balance changes makes your agenda obvious. Caldari have needed many changes for a long while now... and Gallente have needed some nerfing.

To be honest, the Caldari changes, while very welcome, still don't address the missile velocity issues.

Regardless, continue to whine about whining.

My crusade for faster missiles.]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 18:36:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6832070 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Cailais]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#69
And the Onyx - jeesh, nigh on unstoppable, FFA4 (cruiser ffa) on sisi is wall to wall Onyx's.

Meanwhile, still waiting after 2 years are the Amarr that the devs are 'looking into'.

Welcome indeed to Caldari Online.

C.

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 18:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6832069 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by madaluap]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#68

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

Originally by: Plaetean
Stop bloody crying and just play the game.

I wouldnt mind flying an apoc tbh. 800mm AC + barrage and medium ecm drones or heavy neut+nos setup. Im gonna try it soonish
_________________________________________________
Breetime

A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 18:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6832068 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Liang Nuren]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#67 Caldari = +4
Minmatar = 1
Amarr = -2
Gallente = -8

Gallente:
- scoop drone healing (Ikshur, Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix, Eos)
- RSD Effectiveness (Celestis, Arazu, Lachesis)

Eos
- drone bay
- gun slots
- drone bandwidth
- Gang link, info superiority nerfed

Myrmidon
- drone bandwidth

Ishkur
- drone bandwidth

Amarr
- TD efficiency (Arbitrator, Pilgrim, Curse)
- scoop drone healing (Arbitrator, Pilgrim, Curse)

Minmatar:
Typhoon:
+ Torp damage

Caldari:
+ ship agility to most ships
+ ECM efficiency (Griffin, Blackbird, Falcon, Scorpion)
+ ECM cap use (Kitsune, Griffin, Blackbird, Falcon, Rook, Scorpion)

Raven:
+ Torp damage

A bit more unbiased.

Liang

--
Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.

Yarr?]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 18:24:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6832067 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Darahk J'olonar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#66

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 18:13:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831945 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Khes]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#65

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Originally by: Khes
So do you mean that Caldari didn't need for example a ship agility boost and it will instead only make things unbalanced ???

I dont say anything about the changes, I just count them.

Sorry, I must have missunderstood you when you said this:

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Instead of fine tuning, they create new imbalances.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 18:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831944 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by KD.Fluffy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#64

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Edited by: Brodde Dim on 29/11/2007 10:31:33
Edited by: Brodde Dim on 29/11/2007 10:31:00
Fellow contenders, we can finally give you the preliminary score from the last forum whining contest.

To no suprise, its another victory for the veterans of the caldari whine squads, and this time it wasnt much of a fight.

While we are still counting points, the results so far are:

Caldari = +14
Minmatar = 0
Amarr = -5
Gallente = -15

And while the complete list of wins and losses would be to long for one post, I will just point out the ones that actually does matter to the final score. (Only nerfs/boosts where the ships role (bonuses) are affected, and general changes that affect most ships).

Gallente:

Eos:
- drone bay
- gun slots
- drone bandwidth
- scoop drone healing
- Gang link, info superiority nerfed

Myrmid:
- drone bandwidth
- scoop drone healing

Ishkur
- drone bandwidth
- scoop drone healing

Dominix
- scoop drone healing

Vexor
- scoop drone healing

Ishtar
- scoop drone healing

Celestis
- RSD efficiency

Arazu
- RSD efficiency

Lachesis
- Lachesis RSD efficiency

Amarr
- Tracking computers nerfed

Curse:
- TD efficiency
- drone bandwidth
- scoop drone healing
+ neut cap use

Pilgrim
- TD efficiency
- drone bandwidth
- scoop drone healing
+ neut cap use

Minmatar:
- Tracking computers nerfed

Typhoon:
+ Torp damage

Caldari:
+ ship agility to most ships

Raven:
+ Torp damage

Scorpion:
+ ECM efficiency
+ ECM cap use

Falcon:
+ ECM efficiency
+ ECM cap use

Rook:
+ ECM efficiency
+ ECM cap use

Blackbird:
+ ECM efficiency
+ ECM cap use

Griffin
+ ECM efficiency
+ ECM cap use

Nighthawk
+ Gang link cap use reduced (boost for passive tank)

Vulture
+ Gang link cap use reduced (boost for passive tank)

Once again CCP balances the game with the precission of a blind man performing life saving surgery with a chainsaw, with guidance from a blood thirsty audience.

The question now is; Will the up and coming Gallente whining team take the challenge and try to recover? They have made a huge improvement and shown strong will the last couple of weeks. And will Amarr finally give up?

Is this post a whine? Offcourse it is. If one thing is to be learned from this next patch, it is that whining works. More forum whining will give you good stuff. And for those who dont want to whine? Tough luck.

Ok, Caldari whiners, show me your flaming skills.

*Edit: Added Neut cap use boost, and boosts for griffin.

dude go cry somewhere else. Caldari SORELY needed some buffs, im sorry another race might actually have a chance to kill your gallente boats now.
Boost The Eagle!]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 17:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831889 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Incantare]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#63

Originally by: Suitonia

I know, but it's still a general buff (Albiet a bit useless for t2 capable pilots), and not only towards Caldari of course, Low SP minmatar shield tankers will also benefit. I was generally trying to make fun of the OP, by adding another 'caldari buff' to his list :D.

It's a nerf to best named as well which is imo more important than the t1 / low meta shield boosters.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 17:21:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831619 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Lyria Skydancer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#62

Originally by: Plaetean

Stop bloody crying and just play the game.

Id like to lock your char so he can only fly omen and apoc for a month. Then you show up on forums say they suck. Then Ill say "Stop bloody crying and just play the game".

Maybe a quote is in order:

-Its easy to be brave behind castle walls
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 17:18:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831618 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Suitonia]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=3#61
---

I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots...]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 17:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831617 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Ogul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#60

Originally by: Suitonia

Meta level 1 to 4 shield boosters now have the same duration as tech 1 shield boosters (meta level 0). Shield boost amount and capacitor need have been adjusted: The efficiency has been increased by +12.5% and the boost rate has been increased up to +12.5% for meta level 0 down to -10% for meta level 4. This ensures that the increase in boost rate and efficiency between tech 1 and tech 2 is in line with the values for armor repairers.

You forgot this Caldari buff too.

I know you didn't put it like this, but who in his right mind used T1 shield boosters anyway? The T2 versions are cheap, have low skill requirements and have just been a lot better.

---
This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 16:56:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831429 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Brodde Dim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#59

Originally by: Oam Mkoll

Even though it is beside my point, I agree recons EW ability should be a support to gangs. Amarr were allways more of solo ships, but the others are clearly gang orientet. The changes will not really make Amarr recons more viable for other than solo work, and the gallente recons will only be really usefull for the scram range bonus. (as long as the Keres isnt cheap enough to be a better choice).

My point is still that whining seem to have made CCP overcompensate again. If Eos is overpowered, a nerf is needed. But 5 nerfs on one ship imho a bit harsh. If ECM is underpowered, give it a small boost. But nerfing all other kinds of EW and at the same time giving ECM a couple of buffs, will most certainly turn the table and make it overpowered.

Originally by: Kerfira
Not only does the OP count general boosts as Caldari only, he also counts general nerfs as Gallente only. Add to that the fact that the 2 ECM boosts are counted 5 times EACH in his +15 score. Specific Caldari nerfs (like the torp range) are also very conveniently left out.

Yes, I only count how changes affect the specialized ships. How the general changes affect not specialized ships is not important since it will balance out. So I count how many ships got a role bonus buff or a role bonus nerf.

If you really think the changes to torps is a nerf, I suggest you start a thread and ask CCP to not change it. I think you will get very nice response from your fellow caldari pilots.

Originally by: Khes
So do you mean that Caldari didn't need for example a ship agility boost and it will instead only make things unbalanced ???

I dont say anything about the changes, I just count them.

There are plenty of people making comments, whines, suggestions and so on about changes needed/wanted for ships in this part of the forum. Some are really needed and well backed up by facts and examples. Others are luxury or just silly. Some have only a few pilots interested and supporting them. Others have a lot of people benefiting from the changes and get a lot of attention.

What I tried to say in this thread is that this time the Caldari whine soldiers won. And by the replies I have gotten so far I can see why. The dedication and whine-fuu is really strong. Congratulations, keep up the good work.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 16:49:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831428 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by madaluap]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#58

Originally by: Leon 026

OP forgot to mention how worthless the Flycatcher is.

Yeh totally wtf owned by the eris. Rolling Eyes

_________________________________________________
Breetime

A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 16:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831368 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Clavius XIV]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#57

Originally by: N1fty

Energy neuts got a small cap need decrease. +1 to Amarr recons.

Actually the patch note is misleading. The best named medium neut did not change in efficencey at all. The efficency of T2 medium neuts was brought in line with the best named T1, and the patch note if you read it with the comma, was ment to only address small neuts.

It would be nice if they actually would make Neuts significantly more efficent... ECM got a 40% reduction in cap use... but I wouldn't hold your breath.

It seems that ECM jamming is destined to be the only viable EWAR.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 16:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831308 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Suitonia]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#56
You forgot this Caldari buff too.

---

I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots...]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 16:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831307 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Xaldor]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#55 Gallente nerfs = +1
Gallente and Amarr whining = priceless
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 16:04:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831116 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by welsh wizard]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#54
Gallente have had it coming for a long time, 'adapt'.
[Balance] The Caldari problem.]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 16:01:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6831115 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Yakia TovilToba]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#53
You fail, gallente, your points counting is corrupt.
For example you give the caldaris a + for torp damge but no - for torp range nerf.
Or you "forget" to give the Gallentes a + for new stronger drones (which gallentes profit the most of, with their drone-specced ships) and give a lot of - for the same thing (each ship one).

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 15:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830903 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Khes]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#52 Edited by: Khes on 29/11/2007 15:12:50

Originally by: Brodde Dim

And I am saying that, maybe because there are more caldari pilots than pilots from any other race, the caldari whine got attention from CCP again.

So do you mean that Caldari didn't need for example a ship agility boost and it will instead making things unbalanced ???

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 15:12:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830778 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Alex Harumichi]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#51

Originally by: Juha85

Eos gets brought back in line with the other fleet commands - check

I more or less agree with you on the other points, but the above is simply false. Eos is now total crap compared to the other fleet commands, as a fleet support ship. The latest kick in the teeth was the nerf to the infowar gang links, already easily the worst of the four.

I won't repeat the arguments from the (long) previous threads here, look them up if you're interested in the reasons.

And yeah, damps being close to useless even on the specialized boats (Celestis, Arazu, Lachesis) is bad. I don't think anyone (even the pure Caldari players) wants us to go back to ECM being the only EW ever worth using.

(same can be said about tracking disruptors on specialized boats, they also seriously need a boost)

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 15:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830777 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Khyara]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#50 And he said

"Thats interesting, because if you look at my base salary, obviously you got cheap labour when you hired me. Yes Ive already gotten a 15% raise this year, however that 15% raise doesnt even bring me in line with the base pay of this position, therefore you are going to give me a raise."

Same thing with the Caladari.

I love how EVE always relates to real life, dont you?

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 14:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830650 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Kerfira]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#49
Not only does the OP count general boosts as Caldari only, he also counts general nerfs as Gallente only. Add to that the fact that the 2 ECM boosts are counted 5 times EACH in his +15 score. Specific Caldari nerfs (like the torp range) are also very conveniently left out.

Congrats on your work of fiction! Maybe someone else without your obvious biased agenda can do the real calc.....

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 14:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830649 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Leon 026]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#48 -------

Leon 026
Once I was fallen, now I have wings
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 14:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830584 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Meridius Dex]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#47
If that were true, Amarr and their ridiculous lasers would have been fixed long ago. CCP couldn't care less, and Trinity is further proof that those of us duped into choosing Amarr during character creation remain still the Joke Race of EVE.
--
Meridius Dex
--

Amarr = EVE on Hard setting]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 14:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830583 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Lyria Skydancer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#46

Originally by: Steakkbone

Originally by: Incantare

It's unfortunate Amarr weren't given their oomph in this patch but the devs have stated they are looking at the issue.

Amarr weren't given their oomph in this patch but the devs have stated they are looking at the issue.

weren't given their oomph in this patch but the devs have stated they are looking at the issue.

weren't given their oomph

Oomph must be given.

Yes in the allmighty oomph we trust and hope for.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 14:19:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830474 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by The Anointed]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#45 Edited by: The Anointed on 29/11/2007 14:11:36

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Gallente:

Eos:
- drone bay bonus
- Gang link, info superiority

Celestis
- RSD efficiency

Arazu
- RSD efficiency

Lachesis
- Lachesis RSD efficiency

The way in which you count scoop drone healing as a nerf kind of spoils the attempt at logic. Scoop drone healing was an oversight and has needed attention for a while now, it also affects every ship with a drone bay. The Eos having some of its gun slots removed is also not a nerf, more of a balance, however I would agree that soemthing else needs to be done in order to bring its survivability in fleets up to the same level as other ships in its class.

As for the iskur, give me an argument as to why an assualt ship should need to deploy more than 5 light drones, that in my book is a sensible amount for an assault ship and it still has room for spares. The same applies to the Myrmidon, Medium drones are acceptable especially with the bonus, or is it right that it should field 5 heavies and be on a par with the dominix for drone damage? The eos is on the same level, although the bonus to drone bay size is stupid, so give it a bonus to resists or armour hp instead.

RSD Efficiency, thats a tough one, however I also feel that it was required, but i shall let you keep them as negative points.

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Caldari:
+ ship agility to most ships

Raven:
+ Torp damage
- Range

Lets start with the bonus to agility as being something that is required, there is no reason for caldari ships to be the massive bricks they currently are, they shouldnt be the most agile/fast, but they should come in line with others.

I will give you the + for torp damage, its nice to have somethign that packs a punch at close range to large targets, but I would also like to stick in a negative for the reduced range, mainly because I feel that the change is more of a balance again.

As for the others, well clutching at straws to be honest. Jammers have had issues from day 1, nobody will ever agree on what should be done about it, but especially with the scorp and blackbird, the bonus change was needed as they because pretty useless, its a trade off, however the system we have at the moment works fine from my point of view and the efficiency and cap use in my opinion is on your little list to make up points.

The gang link issue is also a slim argument, a single gang link to benefit a passive tank that uses less cap? Surely you can see that there is little to no point in arguing that point?

I dont fly amarr or minny, so I wont comment, however I do feel that the changes coming to both gallente and caldari are being blown out of proportion, its not the end or the golden age of either race.

A final point, if ccp simply went on whats posted on these forums and used that information to make changes then this game would be a complete cluster.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 14:11:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830381 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Theron Gyrow]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#44

Originally by: Juha85

Ok to summarize the upcoming patch:

Eos gets brought back in line with the other fleet commands - check

False. After the patch, Eos is not just the worst fleet command (which would be ok, one of them has to be), but point-and-laugh worst one.

Originally by: Juha85
Myrmidon gets brought back in line with the other tier2 bc's - check

Might be. It will probably be the worst one out there, but that's ok.

Originally by: Juha85

Remote sensor damp gets it's I-WIN fit on all ships role removed - check
The exploit of instantly healing drones gets removed - check

Agreed with these.

Originally by: Juha85

Extremely slow and heavy caldari ships get just a bit more agile - check

Er. If the numbers published by someone are correct, they are now as agile as the most agile corresponding Minmatar ships. This is a bit much.

Originally by: Juha85

Caldari gets one BS able to deal damage - check

... and how. I worry about Megathron and Tempest getting marginalised by Raven. Too much of a boost.

On the other hand, the indirect boosts to lasers (more shield tankers) and target painters (that torps require) are good things.

Originally by: Juha85

Falcon might actually be worth flying - check

... might? Might?!? That thing is a stealthy force multiplier like no other.

Originally by: Juha85

Ok. The only thing that isn't justified is the heavy hit on the gallente recons. We will see but they will most likely get their bonus boosted in future patches. And perhaps they will introduce a low slot module to boost damp effectivenes.

Yes. Damps being useless also in specced ships = bad.
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Gradient forum]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 14:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830380 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by d026]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#43

Originally by: N1fty

Energy neuts got a small cap need decrease. +1 to Amarr recons.

+1 to caldari. i fit them on my raven to:)

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 13:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830271 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Juha85]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#42
Eos gets brought back in line with the other fleet commands - check
Myrmidon gets brought back in line with the other tier2 bc's - check
Remote sensor damp gets it's I-WIN fit on all ships role removed - check
The exploit of instantly healing drones gets removed - check

Extremely slow and heavy caldari ships get just a bit more agile - check
Caldari gets one BS able to deal damage - check
Falcon might actually be worth flying - check

Ok. The only thing that isn't justified is the heavy hit on the gallente recons. We will see but they will most likely get their bonus boosted in future patches. And perhaps they will introduce a low slot module to boost damp effectivenes.
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Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com - Cortes ]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 13:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830164 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Monticore D'Muertos]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#41 ]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 13:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830101 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Daelin Blackleaf]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#40
Last few times we went shopping Caldari didn't get any candy.

Maybe next time you'll get some.

To be honest there's not all that much to see here, ECM got a buff, and we got our agility boosted. As mentioned you've managed to heavily skew those numbers and not even managed to do so with any degree of subtlety.

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EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 13:09:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830045 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Stuart Price]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#39 "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 13:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6830044 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Oam Mkoll]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#38

Originally by: Brodde Dim

You sir are a baboon. While some of the nerfs are indeed ridiculous (like TD nerf and to a point SD nerf), this has nothing at all to do with Caldari Online. I agree, SD nerf affects Gallente recons badly but that doesn't mean that their Caldari counterparts just became powerful. They are simply better SUPPORT ships. The falcon still can't kill a light scout drone, the Rook set up for EW (the only sensible fitting) is much weaker than a Caracal.

The agility nerf doesn't change the fact that Caldari ships are still heavy, slow and maneuverable like a pregnant stegosaurus. ECM is still useless on non-dedicated ships.

The ONLY actual PvP boost for Caldari is the torpedo change. This introduces the ONLY heavy damage dealer for the race. Raven will be the only BS viable for killing stuff. The Rokh has range but no damage, the Scorp is a support ship. What does your oh-so-nerfed Gallente BS shop have left? Megathron, now the best fleet sniper in EvE, Hyperion with respectable DPS and a huge tank and the Domi, still powerful and very flexible.

This post is nothing more than a whine about the nerf that takes I-WIN ships from you and turns them into something balanced. Cry more and stop pretending you care about the minor and well-deserved tweaks to Caldari.
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I am violence boat

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 11:56:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829583 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Hydrogen]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#37
You pointed out an issue of a one sided approach by CCP and your post and the replies show that you are right. Well done.

If only it was not so sad to see such a biased approach by CCP...
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- click here -]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 11:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829523 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by August Personage]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#36

Originally by: Plaetean

Stop bloody crying and just play the game.

]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 11:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829403 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by arbalesttom]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#35

Originally by: Phoenicia

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: the thorn
a blackbird with more then 4 multispec jammers is not cap stable
a griffen with 4 multi spectracls is not cap stable

Don't use multispecs.

That sort of logic is how teen pregnancies happen.

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Nice hamster! - Mindstar
Sorry, that hamster ate your sig.. - Random Guy123
Phear this sig! - Cortes ]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 11:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829335 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Brodde Dim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#34
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 11:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829334 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Augeas]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#33

Quote:

The nerfs were to RSDs and a change to drones, and while it certainly affects Lolentte, it affects every other race too. RSDs were that good that most pvp raven setups would field a rack of them and go with an armour tank setup.

Absolutely - and a rack of RSD was a fine fit for the Drake also. Now the Drake and Raven will be seen more with HAM/torp gank fits and dodgy, EM-soft shield tanks. Resulting in a nice stealth boost for Amarr and lasers.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 11:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829262 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Tom Gunn]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#32
RSDs were that good that most pvp raven setups would field a rack of them and go with an armour tank setup.

Drones have needed looking at for a very long time. The very idea you could instantly heal drones shields was always more of an exploit than sensible.

As for the torp change, that really depends who you are talking too - i certainly welcome it, but as a pvper i don't speak for the majority of caldari who are pve pilots and far outnumber pvp players.

I'd wager they think its a bad change to their mission running setups.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 10:35:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829120 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Plaetean]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=2#31

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]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 10:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829119 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by N1fty]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#30
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]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 10:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6829024 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Brodde Dim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#29

Originally by: Phoenicia

Originally by: Brodde Dim
Yes. I am not comparing the ships to eachother or trying to grade the changes differently and giving more points for a more usefull change.

So you're delivering a comparative list, split by race, but you're not comparing? Basically you're saying "I don't even care if the ships that got boosted needed the boost"?

Exactly. I am not saying that the Eos is getting nerfed way too much. And I am not saying that TD nerf is another tough blow to the allready hard nerfed amarr recons. (Im not denying it either).

What I am saying, is that forum whining apparantly makes CCP overcompensate all the time. Instead of fine tuning, they create new imbalances. And I am saying that, maybe because there are more caldari pilots than pilots from any other race, the caldari whine got attention from CCP again.

There are a lot of ships that need fixing. And I think there will be even more after the patch. But I kind of expect the forum whining to be as one sided as usuall even after the patch, and the next patch will probably mean another bunch of buffs for caldari ships that dont really need it, and another sad day for amarr. Getting closer and closer to Caldari online...
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 10:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6828932 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Karyuudo Tydraad]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#28
On the other hand, while years of Amarr specialization have made me a bitter man, I am glad for once we aren't the ones getting shafted worst in a major game altering patch. As such, I will now be partaking in consuming the sweet tears of your misery alongside the Caldari while buzzing around in my cap stable Crusader.]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 09:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6828716 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Incantare]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#27 Edited by: Incantare on 29/11/2007 09:11:08
Some things that seem to have been lost in the above discussion: Amarr ships rely more on tracking enhancers than computers, TEs which remain unscripted. If anything it's a stealth Amarr sniper buff. Saying the Rokh doesn't need the extra range from TCs and can use them for pure tracking because it can already fire beyond locking range is narrow sighted. To have comparable damage to the other snipers at the same range, as is, the Rokh needs to fire lower range, higher damage ammo. Use tracking scripts and the Rokh loses raw damage.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 09:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6828676 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Sokratesz]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#26 Sig removed for the third time, inappropriate content. Sig Locked. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com - Cortes]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 08:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6828608 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Liang Nuren]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#25
Liang

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Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU.

Yarr?]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 08:49:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6828607 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by Phoenicia]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#24

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Yes. I am not comparing the ships to eachother or trying to grade the changes differently and giving more points for a more usefull change.

So you're delivering a comparative list, split by race, but you're not comparing? Basically you're saying "I don't even care if the ships that got boosted needed the boost"?

Originally by: Brodde Dim
I am simply adding up the number of boosts and nerfs for each race.

Don't pretend to be unbiased:

Originally by: Brodde Dim in OP
To no suprise, its another victory for the veterans of the caldari whine squads, and this time it wasnt much of a fight.

The only part where you make a valid point (and that was random luck, cause you're really going for "zomg dont nerf my gallente ships!") is with the Amarr nerf. They're kinda weak already, and are in need of a boost, not a nerf.
]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2008 08:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/6828606 <![CDATA[Welcome to Caldari - Online - by InnerDrive]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=646511&page=1#23

Originally by: Brodde Dim

Once again CCP balances the game with the precission of a blind man performing life saving surgery with a chainsaw, with guidance from a blood thirsty audience.

He's right though, this patch is a insane caldari buff.

Myself i only fly minmatar amarr and gallente, i never trained missile skills only gunskills.

When i looked at the new npc ships i got sick, the golem is going to be INSANE, a target painting bonus? and what does the gallente one get? a web bonus that applys to the amount of webbing but ur still only going to have 10km range on it? lol

How useless to have rails (range) f