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IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Atsuko Ratu

Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:40:00 +0000

Originally by: Greagore
Why does everyone fail to notice that the NPC did like 170k damage to him already.

It was a simple suicide gank, and they only used one ship to do it because the guy was probably in structure.

Why would that put him in structure?

Mission runners perma-tank and take a lot of damage over time because of this. It's kind of the basics of eve.

This is an obvious case of Mr. Mission-Runner lacking real eve experience and not knowing how to deal with other players, or situations like this.

I mean, come on, he even said "I thought them being in the mission was a bug, and they weren't really there..."

My favorite part was the skill remark. That made my day

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Greagore

Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:34:00 +0000

Originally by: Slavebabe
It was not a suicide kill.

Were you present to confirm that it was not a suicide kill?

Didn't think so.

Simple thing is. This guy Genicus did something stupid, what that stupid thing is we will never know because he will not admit to it.
Fact is he got blown up. Just like hundreds of other people do every day. You do not see them in here whining about it though, or wasting GM's time trying to get his ship back.

Eve is a dangerous and serious place, if you feel threatened dock up, the bad people cannot hurt you there.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Lubomir Penev

Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:39:00 +0000

Originally by: AltBier

The question which has not been answered conclusively is how the players became aggressed to each other. Several people in this thread have reported seeing red flashy players appearing in their mission.

Easy as pie. Player is in room 2 of his mission. I steal from his wrecks in first room, I am now flashy red to him as he can legally shoot me for being a dirty thief.

I enter room 2, all flashy red. I target him. He panics and shoot me. I can now shoot back (mind I could no nothing to him beforehand). Shortly after he pops, I loot his wreck, I dock,drop the loot, switch back to my covops and go probe another dullard still missioning in the Motsu and Dodixie of this galaxy.

There is no shortage of morons in this game, and someone has to cull their population somehow
--
Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Venkul Mul

Tue, 8 Jul 2008 06:08:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus
Thanks for all the good comments so far.
There were lots of loot cans all over the place as it was a big mission and i hadn't collected all the loot yet.

The only thing that i can think of is this:

I always have the full amount of rats targetted and just work my way through them, also using my drones. If the pirate player that was flashing red due to having a negative status lower than minus 5 came into my mission and was auto targetted and i could have accidentally fired on him. If this were the case would i not get the standard message saying that this was a dangerous act? Would my drones possibly attack them after killing a rat? They were all in caldari ships which were the ones in my mission, everything was flashing red as i had full aggro from the mission.

I can't think of anything else

I think I have a possibility, it is a trick used against miners that CCP don't seem capable of plugging.

Step by step:
1) player enter your mission, get near you and open a wreck, taking hold of the loot but not putting it in his cargo bay , so the loot appear to be in still in thw wreck;
2) player become red to you;
3) you try to take the loot from the same wreck;
4) for some stupid reason you can take the loot in the wreck but, at the same time, it is in possession of the otehr player, eh get kill rights on you, without any warning to you;
5) ransom/ship killed.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Slavebabe

Tue, 8 Jul 2008 05:43:00 +0000

He is in an empire-corp. Even if he is in the same corp, aggression between empire corp members are not tolerated by concord.

Spawn damage is shown in the last - dunno, maybe - 15 minutes, adding together whatever he has already tanked .

It was not a suicide kill. My cent would be on the can-renaming-trick + auto-targeting + drone attacking targeted aggressive players.

I would like to see our famous representatives acting on this. If this topic worths 7 pages from the community it must worth 10 minutes of their precious time... especially those saying they are expert in empire PVP or mission running.

I would like to see the help created for the aggression mechanic, just like it was created for all the other topics by CCP or maybe even they don't know what is happening in this game anymore.

Ps: Don't hit me, my master made me say all this.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Dark Phox

Mon, 7 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0000

I have to ask the stupid question being that you blocked out some info on that killmail, But was said pirate in YOUR corporation?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Alena

Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:25:00 +0000

Going back to the first page he said that he had his drones out and they were flashing red. That means they stole from him which would allow his drones to attack them. Once that happened he was free game. It's not really that tough to figure out. Drones will attack things that aren't targeted.
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.
-- Winston Churchill

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Bloody Rabbit

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:06:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus
I like sir jakes comment, most sensible one so far as that could have been the case, i was fighting about 20 rats at the time.

So tell me how is that fair, why can you not do your mission in peace.

I have heard of a bug where drones that were out were attacked with webs or something and drones then attack. But that ended with concord attacking the owner of the drones and that's not what happened here.

As for the 3 pages no I didn't bother to read it as the first page was just sad.

Local and Covert cloaking Idea

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by pandymen

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:39:00 +0000

Good point above.

I would also like to clarify that the "can named you" warp scramble trick is not an exploit. It has never been mentioned as one and is pretty common practice.

Simply put, CCP could simply not let ppl scramble cans, like you cannot target/scramble other items if they thoguht it was an exploit.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Sin Stylejr

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:52:00 +0000

I think the sad part about this entire thread is that strangers on a game that get nothing for helping this guy have spent hours typing up 7 pages on a forum in an attempt to help him solve this mystery. Yet the company he pays $15 a month to play this game has brushed him off with the famous carbon copy "our logs show nothing".

You would think they would spend a little more time through petition or eve mails discussing this further trying to figure it out. Not so much for him but themselves before there is an outbreak of this and people begin to quit.

Think the forum community needs to start getting a pay check and CCP needs a swift kick to the nutts to remind them whos the employer.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by VicturusTeSaluto

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:32:00 +0000

Originally by: Parsival
Originally by: Saba Quiestador
Really, people can speculate all they want, but the logfiles (and ONLY the logfiles) hold the answer.

Unfortunately logfiles don't always record all the relevant information. For example whether or not any party involved looted any wrecks that subsequently flagged them.

Personally, I believe the OP's lack of knowledge regarding aggression mechanics means it is likely he made a mistake and flagged himself to the Raven. The fact he claims he was aggressed by multiple players yet only one is shown on the killmail is rather telling I believe.

Yeah, it is very telling and quite simple. The raven was probably already flashy to him from looting his wrecks or whatever. Then the mish noob had it set to auto target back, targeted the raven by "mistake."

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by AltBier

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:00:00 +0000

Edited by: AltBier on 26/06/2008 16:01:50

I did notice the high NPC damage.

He says he logged, now if he had aggressed the player then his ship would have stayed around (I think) and the rats would have taken it apart, the player could have waited for 50% structure and then fired the torps.

The question which has not been answered conclusively is how the players became aggressed to each other. Several people in this thread have reported seeing red flashy players appearing in their mission.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Greagore

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:39:00 +0000

Why does everyone fail to notice that the NPC did like 170k damage to him already.

It was a simple suicide gank, and they only used one ship to do it because the guy was probably in structure.

And if the guy is not getting concordokkened.
Notice no one else is reporting getting ganked in this manner so it is obviously something that Genicus is doing but not telling anyone because he knows it would explain everything.

You got ganked plain and simple, deal with it, it happens every day.
Move on.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Dotard

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:05:00 +0000

Three baddies all loot wrecks in mission room one. All jump into mission room two. Runners gets a bit un-nerved seeing 3 flashies jumping into his space.

One baddy jets a can and does the "warp scram you" trick. Runner panics and opens fire or sic's the drones on one of 'em.

Runner dies in an explosion of pretty lights.

That's why three flashies in the mission yet only one on the KM.

---------------
Nerf You! Buff Me!

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Kaya Divine

Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:04:00 +0000

Originally by: Parsival

Yes, but the point is that they drop a unit of ammo in a can and name the can "Genicus". They then target and warp scramble the can and the OP would see a message displayed on his screen "XXXX has started trying to warp scramble Genicus", which occasionally tricks people into believing they are under attack when they are in fact not and sometimes they will mistakenly initiate aggression as a result.

Interesting.
For me this information can be a lifesaver.

I consulted moralists to learn how to appear philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Parsival

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:21:00 +0000

Originally by: Zaknussem
Isn't this an exploit?

I believe it is classed as one. Pretty sure it doesn't show in the client logs though so CCP would need to investigate it in the server logs.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Zaknussem

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:15:00 +0000

Originally by: Parsival
Yes, but the point is that they drop a unit of ammo in a can and name the can "Genicus". They then target and warp scramble the can and the OP would see a message displayed on his screen "XXXX has started trying to warp scramble Genicus", which occasionally tricks people into believing they are under attack when they are in fact not and sometimes they will mistakenly initiate aggression as a result.

Isn't this an exploit?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Parsival

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:50:00 +0000

Originally by: Kaya Divine
Originally by: Saba Quiestador
It is overwhelmingly likely that the OP was tricked using the "can named 'you'" thing, and was never really warp scrambled at all.

Aren't cans of other players yellow color instead white

Yes, but the point is that they drop a unit of ammo in a can and name the can "Genicus". They then target and warp scramble the can and the OP would see a message displayed on his screen "XXXX has started trying to warp scramble Genicus", which occasionally tricks people into believing they are under attack when they are in fact not and sometimes they will mistakenly initiate aggression as a result.

Whether the can is yellow or white is a detail that most people aren't looking for in a mission with multiple wrecks, rats and cans on overview.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Kaya Divine

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:01:00 +0000

Originally by: Saba Quiestador
It is overwhelmingly likely that the OP was tricked using the "can named 'you'" thing, and was never really warp scrambled at all.

Aren't cans of other players yellow color instead white

I consulted moralists to learn how to appear philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Parsival

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:54:00 +0000

Originally by: Saba Quiestador
Really, people can speculate all they want, but the logfiles (and ONLY the logfiles) hold the answer.

Unfortunately logfiles don't always record all the relevant information. For example whether or not any party involved looted any wrecks that subsequently flagged them.

Personally, I believe the OP's lack of knowledge regarding aggression mechanics means it is likely he made a mistake and flagged himself to the Raven. The fact he claims he was aggressed by multiple players yet only one is shown on the killmail is rather telling I believe.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Parsival

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:16:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus
Normally when someone steals from you the 15 minute aggression timer comes up and that is not happening in this situation, he warps into the mission already flashing red.

This is wrong iirc, when someone steals from you the aggression timer displays on their screen, not yours. If you are getting an aggression timer display at the top left of your screen you are doing something to flag yourself to the party/parties concerned.

Originally by: Little Matt
From memory, only the killing blow ends up on the killmail, until it's added to a killboard anyway.

Also wrong, all parties involved are displayed on the killmail unless the gang is too large in which case it gets truncated at something like 30 participants.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Dayanara Ryell

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:13:00 +0000

I don't know if it's different for newb corps but if you steal from a can you become flashy-red to everyone in that corp. Perhaps this guy stole from someone else in your corp before coming into your mission.

Day

We're Recruiting!

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by bewmaster

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:34:00 +0000

Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

Couple of things, just to be perfectly clear. First off, you easily could have been found through probes. Second, Concord takes time to respond, and the longest time in the lowest security space. I think .5 is something like 35 seconds, IIRC.

The mystery isn't how you were probed, or why they weren't destroyed "the moment" they fired on you. The mystery is how they aggressed you without (apparently) ever getting destroyed.

I'm clutching at straws here, but do you have "Autotarget Back" on? It's in your settings if you don't know. Next, I'd go back and recheck your combat log. If it doesn't show anything, check its setttings and make sure everything is on.

thats the best answer I've seen so far they coul dprobe peoplese missions go to them target, hoping that the player will target back and fire accidently.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Svender Atreides

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:36:00 +0000

Any further updates on this one or other reports of it happening ?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:30:00 +0000

I want to see logs tbh <_<

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ethaet

Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:55:00 +0000

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Roderak Pleem
Just throwing this out there..

All wrecks are now flagged to the owner of the mission as of the last patch. Correct?

Could there be a bug that allows a player to come into your mission, kill an NPC, creating a wreck, the wreck is "shown as owned" (on the UI) by the owner of the mission, but not really. Then when the mission runner loots the wreck they are now red blinky to the killer of the NPC?

This one should be obvious, and I would have assumed would have been bug reported a few weeks ago if so.

Would be easy to reproduce that, just to confirm if it do or doesn't work like that. But then, the OP said the second occation this happened, he's sure the red guy didn't loot anything and warped in flashing red already.

Still worth looking into what you just posted, it might be part of the explanation.

This is possible, as no warning message would be given, and it would allow the use of tractor beams due to it being shown as owned by the OP, but the problem with this is that the OP would have then been flagged towards the pirate, and the pirate would not have been flashing until it started shooting.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by William Pierce

Wed, 4 Jun 2008 02:18:00 +0000

Kinda the same thing happened to me recently. Me and a bud were doing The Blockade lvl 3 in a .7 system when another player warped in right after we killed a spawn with the following:

1. The player icon ([]) was red (I think ) and had a red skull on it
2. His row on the overview was flashy red

This guy had no negative corp standings towards us, and as soon as we saw him, me and my mate warped out, waited, and warped back in. After the next spawn, same thing happened. WTF is up, and how the heck did he know that the spawn was killed? He also hung around in local between our 2 encounters, and wasn't CONCORDOKKENED.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Misanth

Wed, 4 Jun 2008 01:12:00 +0000

Originally by: Roderak Pleem
Just throwing this out there..

All wrecks are now flagged to the owner of the mission as of the last patch. Correct?

Could there be a bug that allows a player to come into your mission, kill an NPC, creating a wreck, the wreck is "shown as owned" (on the UI) by the owner of the mission, but not really. Then when the mission runner loots the wreck they are now red blinky to the killer of the NPC?

This one should be obvious, and I would have assumed would have been bug reported a few weeks ago if so.

Would be easy to reproduce that, just to confirm if it do or doesn't work like that. But then, the OP said the second occation this happened, he's sure the red guy didn't loot anything and warped in flashing red already.

Still worth looking into what you just posted, it might be part of the explanation.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Karan Kaldarian

Wed, 4 Jun 2008 00:01:00 +0000

.....CCP says it's all right !!
And what if this is going to happen again??
Customers do not like to loose their ship in this way.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Joe Starbreaker

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:10:00 +0000

Originally by: Mell Prime
If this was an Exploit. CCP would have benned your ass by now for telling the public about it.

So far he hasn't really told us anything.
Screenshots and logs, please.

----------------
[insert signature here]

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Mell Prime

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 23:07:00 +0000

If this was an Exploit. CCP would have benned your ass by now for telling the public about it.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ulstan

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:06:00 +0000

Almost every possible explanation at this point has been shut out. And of course CCP is going to say they're logs don't show anything, that appears to be their stock answer.

The question is, what do YOUR logs show? That's going to be the only way to make headway on this.

If you didn't have your drones out, and the first thing that happens is some guy shoot you, then it is an exploit, pure and simple, given that they didn't wind up losing their ships to concorde.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ethaet

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:17:00 +0000

Edited by: Ethaet on 03/06/2008 17:18:54

Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Genicus

I presume they were flashing red due to the fact that they are pirates, in otherwords a bad negative sec status.

If they were flashing red they wouldn't be in empire, they get pwnd on the gate if they do. This means they were aggroed against you. Common ways to do this is to get you to shoot one of them or get you to take something from their wreck/can. They may have shot a rat in your mission then attacked you when u took the loot? Or one came and stole from a wreck of yours, you shot him, then he came back in a nastier ship?.

1. All wrecks in a mission are owned by the person who has the mission, not who killed the rat
2. Looting someone else's wreck has a warning
3. The OP said nobody warped in before and the pirate was already flashing when waping in the first time
4. the OP said he did not shoot any player.

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
CONCORD and cops don't podkill you, even if you are an outlaw (iirc). What happens if you board a ship in hi sec at a safespot and are an outlaw?

IIRC, you get concorded.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Lrrp

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:11:00 +0000

Originally by: Hanneshannes
He was in a pod?

No. He was in a Dominix right at a station. I was in a Maelstrom. I eyeballed him for 3-5 minutes, targeted him and was waiting for ccp to show up. They didn't and the flashy red warped off somewhere.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Durzel

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:36:00 +0000

Am I right in thinking that -5.0 sec means you're essentially banned from high-sec, or are you only aggressed by the faction police (not Concord?). Is -5.0 sec like having a 24/7 Global Criminal Countdown?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Little Matt

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 06:16:00 +0000

From memory, only the killing blow ends up on the killmail, until it's added to a killboard anyway.

Additionally, all you need to do is change the colour wartargets/-5+/valid kill targets show up as.
This, combined with turning off autotarget back will stop this from happening again.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Liadan Khanum

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 04:20:00 +0000

Well the new, 'all mission cans belong to mission runner' would allow anyone to get flagged by the mission owner. Just kill a mission rat, and loot any container that has some.

I don't think it applies to this situation (either of them) but it could be used to look hostile.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Jmanis Catharg

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 03:46:00 +0000

CONCORD and cops don't podkill you, even if you are an outlaw (iirc). What happens if you board a ship in hi sec at a safespot and are an outlaw?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Samurayo

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 03:03:00 +0000

Most if not all missions have warp-in beacons, you will lose your cloak every time you land on top of one.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k103/samurayo/woopatang_eve.jpg
In peace: we prepare for war!

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Karan Kaldarian

Tue, 3 Jun 2008 02:11:00 +0000

Would it be possible for a black op vessel open a gate when probed the victim (even by a diferent ship) , let the gang enter, do the job in deadspace and then gate the gang out?
I do not know how blacks op works .......

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Exlegion

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:31:00 +0000

Edited by: Exlegion on 02/06/2008 20:35:59

Originally by: Genicus
yes i had a response from ccp saying that their logs didn't show anything.

Didn't show anything as in "there's data missing and somthing's fishy" or as in "everything seems OK and working as intended"?

I'm curious in knowing if they have the reason why you seemed aggressed to your attackers.

One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Roderak Pleem

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:01:00 +0000

Just throwing this out there..

All wrecks are now flagged to the owner of the mission as of the last patch. Correct?

Could there be a bug that allows a player to come into your mission, kill an NPC, creating a wreck, the wreck is "shown as owned" (on the UI) by the owner of the mission, but not really. Then when the mission runner loots the wreck they are now red blinky to the killer of the NPC?

This one should be obvious, and I would have assumed would have been bug reported a few weeks ago if so.

Regards,

Rod

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:51:00 +0000

He was in a pod?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Lrrp

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:30:00 +0000

Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Genicus

I presume they were flashing red due to the fact that they are pirates, in otherwords a bad negative sec status.

If they were flashing red they wouldn't be in empire, they get pwnd on the gate if they do.

No. I've seen flashy reds in .8 system and concord wasn't doing anything.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Doddy

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:32:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus
Edited by: Genicus on 28/05/2008 23:41:54
Just out of curiosity how do people manage low sec missions as they would run the risk all the time of being attacked

Either by controlling the mission system with their corp/alliance/informal group of freinds, by having good intel for approaching pirates or by doing it somewhere so quiet the pirates dont go there. Only the last of these is available to the solo player.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Doddy

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:27:00 +0000

Originally by: Admiral Madbull
searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:

system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611

So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything

havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not

Mistery solved.

Madbull

.

Sec rounds up, all systems that display as 0.5 have a true sec of between 0.4 and 0.49999999 (0.0 space is actually negative security space, low sec goes from 0.01 to 0.399 and displays 0.1 to 0.4). Concord always comes in 0.5 systems anyway.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Doddy

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:02:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus

I presume they were flashing red due to the fact that they are pirates, in otherwords a bad negative sec status.

If they were flashing red they wouldn't be in empire, they get pwnd on the gate if they do. This means they were aggroed against you. Common ways to do this is to get you to shoot one of them or get you to take something from their wreck/can. They may have shot a rat in your mission then attacked you when u took the loot? Or one came and stole from a wreck of yours, you shot him, then he came back in a nastier ship?.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:00:00 +0000

The minute you enter high sec with a GCC (Global Criminal Countdown) you get a visit from CONCORD. Also, you can't dodge gate guns, that shuttle is dust before it goes into warp (which it can't do because CONCORD will have you scrammed, webbed and neuted, not to mention the 50 battleships with perfect tracking and 10000 dps shooting you)

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Necoria

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 14:48:00 +0000

how about:
1. be in adjacent low sec, shoot someone/a can, take a sec hit.
2. jump into highsec, dodge sentry guns with fast align/ have someone eject u a ship at a SS
3. enter mission... voila, u flash red in high sec, without negative sec rating

though i doubt they can continue this for a long time, for all the sec hits will make them outlaw pretty soon, unless they are mission runners themself

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Lrrp

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:57:00 +0000

Edited by: Lrrp on 02/06/2008 12:58:02
A couple more ideas:

1) Pilot has greater than -5 standings with faction but not Concorde and enters high sec in a shuttle or fast warping frig. Goes to station and buys a BS.
Has a alt undocked so he can see if faction navy is outside station. If not he undocks BS, goes to SS (faction navy won't hunt you down). Alt probes down mission and flashy red warps to alt and enters mission. Genicus now sees flashy red in mission. Still does not answer question of how Genicus was attacked tho.

2) Hack?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Krollin

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:36:00 +0000

Genicus,

Firstly, sorry to hear about your ship loss, its good to see that you didnt do what most people do when they loose a ship.

As for trying to put some light or even an answer of the table there is some really good suggestions here, I would like to add my own:

Aramachi is indeed a 0.5 system, you will find it home to alot of suicide gank squads, even the mission farming community are doing it now!

I am not sure if you are aware but if you steal from somoenes wreck you are given a TEMPORARY -5.0 security status, which is why they tend to flash red (depending on your overview settings), also they will appear with a skull in local (again depending on your overview settings).

I would assume that 1 pilot simply looted from a wreck while the other 2 pilots offered support. Upon entering the mission where you were currently being attacked by the mission swap you were targeted.

As it takes a good 20-30 seconds for concord to appear in Aramachi one of the following occured:

1. As already suggested you accidently fired upon the locked ship, thus why only a single person appers on your kill post

2. As you were taking a large amount of damage he used EM torps to destroy you before CONCORD could respond, allowing his friends to loot the wrecks.

In future I would recommend either warping out or blowing up your own wrecks to prevent loot/salvage lose. NEVER EVER EVER engage anyone who enters your mission flashing red - do a directional scan and I am sure you would find others sat in close proximity waiting.

We all live and learn, just dont make the same mistake twice!

Kro

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:27:00 +0000

Originally by: mr bighelmet
they can shot the wreck to get agro

They get a visit from CONCORD.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by mr bighelmet

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:25:00 +0000

they can shot the wreck to get agro

If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:09:00 +0000

yes i had a response from ccp saying that their logs didn't show anything.

I looked at my combat logs and i found the end of the first attack but didn't find anything leading up to it where the first guy warp scrambled me, for some reason that is not there and nothing to do with that player is listed which i find quite strange

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Durzel

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:48:00 +0000

Edited by: Durzel on 02/06/2008 11:49:19

Originally by: Genicus
Edited by: Genicus on 02/06/2008 11:47:12
This was the first mission of the night so they couldn't have found a previous mission and stole from a can.
All the cans on this mission were empty so they could only have done salvage from a wreck.
I was using cruise, have never used fof missiles.
Drones were not out on this particular mission.

As i have mentioned before you normally get the 15 minute aggression timer if someone steals from you and this is not happening but i am not sure what happens if someone else salvages from your mission wrecks, anyone know? and if they did would you get an agression timer?

Well, that's definitely a worry then. Can't think of anything legitimate that would make someone flashy red to you without them having been able to aggress you in some way.

Maybe the guy has found out a way to wardec NPC corps lol

You received a response to your petition yet?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:46:00 +0000

This was the first mission of the night so they couldn't have found a previous mission and stole from a can.
All the cans on this mission were empty so they could only have done salvage from a wreck.
I was using cruise, have never used fof missiles.
Drones were not out on this particular mission.

As i have mentioned before you normally get the 15 minute aggression timer if someone steals from you and this is not happening but i am not sure what happens if someone else salvages from your mission wreck, anyone know? and if they did would you get an agression timer?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Durzel

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:43:00 +0000

Edited by: Durzel on 02/06/2008 11:45:32
Incidentally just because someone is flashing red doesn't mean they can attack you, it just means you can attack them if you so choose (whereupon they in turn can then attack you back).

Same applies to people with -5.0 if they manage to stick around in high-sec - you can attack them, they can't attack you until you aggress them.

Aggressive drones shouldn't attack a target that hasn't already aggressed you (i.e. firing on you, etc). My drones are set aggressive and they don't even proactively attack rats that have ewar'd me but haven't actually shot (e.g. spider drones). I find it a little hard to believe that your drones would proactively wander off to shoot someone who just happens to be flashing red without you commanding them to do so. I could be wrong about this though - surely this is something that has already been tested or could easily be tested?

That said outside of the usual can-flipping mechanics I'm at a loss to explain how a flashy red could turn up in your mission AND proactively attack you without Concord arriving on grid.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:32:00 +0000

Originally by: Ethaet
Then how did he attack the OP without the OP having aggroed against him?

The way it looks right now, his drones attacked the thief at some point.

Unless you are salvaging on the fly and never noticed another ship in onr of your previous missions, it is entirely possible that they probed you down in your misson, warped into your mission (all cloaked in a covops) and waited till you left to grab your salvaging ship. Then they uncoaked, looted a wreck, cloaked again and warped to a SS or smth.

At this point, they know the name of your ship and all, so the next mission, they probe you down, which, with good skills, takes between 30 seconds and 2 minutes, got their combat ship and paid you a visit in your mission.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Saracena

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:26:00 +0000

Just my 2 cents here:

1. About them warping in flashing red: Perhaps they found an earlier can you had in a previous mission and looted from it? I don't know. Is it possible that they looted a wreck very quickly from the initial gate there, and you only noticed them when they started flashing red?

2. About the drones - Also, if you have your drones out and they're looking for a new target they'd go after someone that aggressed you (or stole from you). The question is when and how did they do so.

3. Question that no one has asked - were you doing this mission with f.o.f missiles - I've heard they make an excellent pirate tool for nailing people once they've been robbed (have not tested this till now but will next time I login).

Good luck finding the solution m8; it's impossible to learn before you find out where you went wrong .

Don't like Minmatar space? Put yourself on the contact list for hisec hidden asteroid belt bookmarks [currently operating in: Kador, Derelik, Domain]

2.5 per small
4.5 per medium
6.5 per large

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:50:00 +0000

He didn't take any of my loot as i had taken it all, the only thing he could have done was salvage.
Normally when someone steals from you the 15 minute aggression timer comes up and that is not happening in this situation, he warps into the mission already flashing red.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ethaet

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:41:00 +0000

Then how did he attack the OP without the OP having aggroed against him?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:35:00 +0000

I meant that he probed him down before in a mission, waited till he left, then entered the mission, looted something and buggered off again.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ethaet

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:29:00 +0000

Originally by: Hanneshannes
Edited by: Hanneshannes on 02/06/2008 09:40:33
Originally by: Genicus
It has just happened again although slightly different, that is now twice in a week and never before in 3 years of playing.
I was on first gate of a mission, had a couple of rats left and a guy warps in flashing red, he didn't loot any of my cans, i had no time aggression against him. He went to go for a can but i blew it up before he got there. This time my drones were in so they couldn't attack him. As there were only a few rats left i noticed him straight away this time rather than before when there was a whole screen of flashing rats.
Different person and different corp but i would like to know how he warps in already flashing red when he has not aggressed me in any way. I ignored him for a while and he flew away.

He probed you down, flew into the mission, looted a wreck and then came to you, that's how it works, there is no exploit.
What system is he active in, I'd like to see that.

Impossible, try reading his post.
1. He said he was on the first gate so even if the pirate stole from a wreck, he would have seen it.
2. The pirate was already flashing when warping in
3. He did not attack the pirate, so it couldn't have attacked him without using an exploit.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:40:00 +0000

Edited by: Hanneshannes on 02/06/2008 09:40:33

Originally by: Genicus
It has just happened again although slightly different, that is now twice in a week and never before in 3 years of playing.
I was on first gate of a mission, had a couple of rats left and a guy warps in flashing red, he didn't loot any of my cans, i had no time aggression against him. He went to go for a can but i blew it up before he got there. This time my drones were in so they couldn't attack him. As there were only a few rats left i noticed him straight away this time rather than before when there was a whole screen of flashing rats.
Different person and different corp but i would like to know how he warps in already flashing red when he has not aggressed me in any way. I ignored him for a while and he flew away.

He probed you down, flew into the mission, looted a wreck and then came to you, that's how it works, there is no exploit.
What system is he active in, I'd like to see that.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:38:00 +0000

Destroyer killed a Golem? Lol, that sounds funny.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Azarath Raven

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 08:43:00 +0000

They were blinking red for having Security Status under -5.0? Then how did they entered the system in the first place?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Bai ZongTong

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:36:00 +0000

Edited by: Bai ZongTong on 02/06/2008 06:36:30

Originally by: Pandion Lord
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Next time this happens, take a few screen shots.
Are you sure you don't have any enemies btw? Could be paid mercenaries.

Jeez, how much proof do you all need in order to see a problem exists here?

seconded.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Pandion Lord

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 05:54:00 +0000

Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Next time this happens, take a few screen shots.
Are you sure you don't have any enemies btw? Could be paid mercenaries.

Jeez, how much proof do you all need in order to see a problem exists here?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Bai ZongTong

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 03:04:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus
just looked in local channel and this guy is doing it to a lot of mission runners at this moment and he is appearing red to all of us even though he has a positive sec status. One guy has just lost his golem to him and he is only in a caldari destroyer.

If you salvage from a wreck would it be classed the same as stealing loot?

scary...

hope your new system is alot safer!

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:36:00 +0000

nope my mistake, sounds as if he had a friend in a raven come in and popped him

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:30:00 +0000

just looked in local channel and this guy is doing it to a lot of mission runners at this moment and he is appearing red to all of us even though he has a positive sec status. One guy has just lost his golem to him and he is only in a caldari destroyer.

If you salvage from a wreck would it be classed the same as stealing loot?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Joe Starbreaker

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:27:00 +0000

Next time this happens, take a few screen shots.
Are you sure you don't have any enemies btw? Could be paid mercenaries.

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[insert signature here]

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:08:00 +0000

Also just to add that i even moved about 10 jumps away to use a different agent so not even same area

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:04:00 +0000

It has just happened again although slightly different, that is now twice in a week and never before in 3 years of playing.
I was on first gate of a mission, had a couple of rats left and a guy warps in flashing red, he didn't loot any of my cans, i had no time aggression against him. He went to go for a can but i blew it up before he got there. This time my drones were in so they couldn't attack him. As there were only a few rats left i noticed him straight away this time rather than before when there was a whole screen of flashing rats.
Different person and different corp but i would like to know how he warps in already flashing red when he has not aggressed me in any way. I ignored him for a while and he flew away.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hoshi

Mon, 2 Jun 2008 00:45:00 +0000

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Admiral Madbull
searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:

system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611

So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything

havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not

Mistery solved.

Madbull

.

heh go there and start killing cnrs all day yourself then

Not saying it is the answer in this case but it wouldn't be the first time rounded off sec status would have caused a problem.

Anyone remember one of the earlier alliance tournaments that was in a system with a sec status of something like 0.04, it displayed as 0.0 but people got sec status hits for all the kills.
----------------------------------------
A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ethaet

Sat, 31 May 2008 20:22:00 +0000

Originally by: Ursula Indomina
Edited by: Ursula Indomina on 31/05/2008 16:05:13
Im very new to the game, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question... It was my understanding that in 0.5 space CONCORD does not 'come to the rescue' to mission areas, but rather only protect stargates and stations. Is this not so? Does anyone have a link to a graph or anything that tells you exactly what happens differently in 0.0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc -> 1.0 security space? Thanks, I must be comfused.

1.0-0.8: they get CONCORDOKKENED, they take a sec hit, you probably don't die unless you are in something really fragile and they have a lot of dps/alpha
0.7 -0.5 - they get CONCORDOKKENED, they take a sec hit, you might die depending on their dps and your ship/setup
0.4-0.1 - you die, they take a sec ht, they get 2 crappy little sentryguns at gates/stations firing at them
0.0 - you die, nothing else happens.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ursula Indomina

Sat, 31 May 2008 17:24:00 +0000

Thank you for the information.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Joe Starbreaker

Sat, 31 May 2008 16:58:00 +0000

Originally by: Ursula Indomina
Im very new to the game, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question... It was my understanding that in 0.5 space CONCORD does not 'come to the rescue' to mission areas, but rather only protect stargates and stations. Is this not so?

This is not a dumb question, however, you've got it wrong. Concord will appear anywhere in highsec where you've been attacked by somebody who is breaking the rules. (In this thread's case, the original poster or his drones were baited into the fight, so rules weren't broken.) The difference between 0.5 and 1.0 is that in the higher security systems, Concord arrives faster. Therefore it's easier to pull off a suicide gank in 0.5 than in 1.0.

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[insert signature here]

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Durzel

Sat, 31 May 2008 16:58:00 +0000

Originally by: Ursula Indomina
Edited by: Ursula Indomina on 31/05/2008 16:05:13
Im very new to the game, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question... It was my understanding that in 0.5 space CONCORD does not 'come to the rescue' to mission areas, but rather only protect stargates and stations. Is this not so? Does anyone have a link to a graph or anything that tells you exactly what happens differently in 0.0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc -> 1.0 security space? Thanks, I must be comfused.

Concord will warp to anywhere in system where a criminal act has taken place in 0.5 - 1.0 systems. The only difference between a 0.5 and 1.0 system as far as CONCORD are concerned is how long it takes them to respond, in 1.0 it's practically instantaneous whereas in 0.5 they can take a good 20 seconds or so to appear.

In terms of how they behave once they're on grid it's the same everywhere - instant-neuting, jamming and omgwtfpwn'ing of anyone who looked at them funny.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ursula Indomina

Sat, 31 May 2008 15:10:00 +0000

Im very new to the game, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question... It was my understanding that in 0.5 space CONCORD does not come 'to the rescue', but rather only protect stargates and stations. Is this not so? Does anyone have a link to a graph or anything that tells you exactly what happens differently in 0.0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc -> 1.0 security space? Thanks, I must be comfused.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Sat, 31 May 2008 05:51:00 +0000

Yeah, I agree with most of it, it's getting really ********. You have to babysit your drones all damn day or leave them in station and babysititng drones can be a pain if all targets you have locked are BS and you are relying on your drones to kill off the small frigs and such (which take a year and a half to lock).

Maybe do something about drones that only makes them behave agressive against other objects if they opened fire on their host.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Karan Kaldarian

Sat, 31 May 2008 03:40:00 +0000

I think that some pvpers are really bored and that this game is going to test new players hardly. We can easily imagine what they now must know to enter this game: a lot of tricky engagement rules, things about drones AI, Concord and his strange behaviour at Tea timeetc, etc, etc.

During the last few months it seems that:
-pvp is not all that money, so pvpers must go and missioning in somwhere space.
-pirates have not so much fun in low security space. They are flooding in high sec to escape that fun.
-there is no means to spend a lot of time farming in missions: you cannot buy anything more expensive than a Drake or you will be pwned by all these pvpers. You could go out in a 5-8 group just to socialize. But, in a level 4 mission?? What the sense??
-it seems that, now, even drones (as they have a huge signature rad) are not so usefull, unless to pirates.
Not mentioning if they are set aggressive. So why do train for drones??

I parked one of my char few monts ago just to see what would happen to Eve, and I dont now.

Just to avoid all these strange growing interpretations of the game mechanics we should have CCP to really do something :

-to greatly improve low sec space with more agents station and more lucrative mission rewards and some more other ideas (everithing that could attract people)
-to reduce blobthing
-to adequate insurance for tech 2 ship.
-to reduce signature radius for drones and ships in deadspace. If in low sec, reduce it more. So if a mission runner enter a site, he has a little chance to accomplish his mission, especially in low sec.
More rewards, more station, more security, less blob, will attract missioneers from high to low sec. Pirates will be happy. I think maybe Im wrong.

The pirate job should be haunting in lawless space, not to, desperate for food or bored to dead, exploiting some tricks in high sec space, hoping a mission runner ( yes a MISSION RUNNER!!) to have drone out with aggressive status engage him.
And to do that missionrunners should be interested to take some risk in low sec space, thing that actually do not happens, because the math costs/reward doesnt fit.

Something wrong is going to be even worse in the next future.

Back on topic..I do not thing that a 3 years old missionrunner can fire at all what became a target without giving a little look.
Not after all these thread regarding the same problem :
probed > small ship appears>??> sthing happens> wtfprw!! > ship lost>open thread..

Maybe one of the drones (* drones >> sell all at first log in : do not even think to set them in any different way than aggressive: pirates always discover a way to do the same ) fired at the pirate ship due to a tricky thing..maybe.

Butlets wait the logs.

p.s. sorry for my english.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Anaalys Fluuterby

Sat, 31 May 2008 02:26:00 +0000

Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 31/05/2008 02:26:55

Originally by: WA Dragon

I can only think you shot at them or if they shot at and killed your rats you may have shot one of their wrecks by mistake or took the loot from a can beloning to them after they killed one of your rats and gave them agro to kill you.

I can claim for a fact that this isn't the case with the one incident I mentioned. We went through those logs line by line (what a pain) and there was no incident of the player attacking another and no looting had been done yet.

GMs were not helpful in the petition to ask for clarification, only saying that it was a legitimate action.

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Sat, 31 May 2008 01:23:00 +0000

Some very interesting posts, many thanks for those.

I would agree 100 percent with YunFu Yan that this could become more of a common problem for mission runners and that it will lead to a lot of players possiblt quitting if it starts to happen a lot.

I get the impression from CCP that they realise they have a minor exploit on their hands that is starting to annoy some players but at the same time they don't want to say too much to encourage other would be pirates to copy an easy win situation. Sounds like they are working to correct this situation in a future patch.

I am currently going through my logs to find the actual part, unfortunately i have a lot of data but i hope to post the results here

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Joe Starbreaker

Sat, 31 May 2008 00:43:00 +0000

Originally by: Babel
"syphurous is right about the ghost ships, i always have ships appear on my overview that are not actually there"

A rumour abounds that this results from ship/cargo scans done with a passive targetter - scanner pilot becomes 'sticky' on overview - if true then you were a chosen target ..

I don't think that's it. It happens for me when I have my mouse hovering over a ship on the overview when I enter warp. The ship then stays on the overview and remains there until I switch to another overview tab and back.

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[insert signature here]

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Galen Brustar

Fri, 30 May 2008 22:25:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus
As stated above i am not in any player corp just a basic NPC corp.

I presume they were flashing red due to the fact that they are pirates, in otherwords a bad negative sec status.

I have no killrights, bounty, never done any piracy or pvp with this character so no reason for anyone to attack me.

There is absolutely no reason why they should have been allowed to attack me in empire space

They targetted you, you had auto-target enabled and locked them back. Your drones were set to aggressive and fired a shot at them, giving them kill rights.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by WA Dragon

Fri, 30 May 2008 18:04:00 +0000

the flashing red part explained.

it sounds like the mission was over 2 or more screens, its possible the invaders took loot in another screen and started flashing red from that then used the gate to enter the screen you were presantly in.

I can only think you shot at them or it they shot at your rats you may have shot one of their wrecks by mistake or took the loot from a can beloning to them after they killed one of your rats and gave them agro to kill you.

Or it could be an exploit we dont know about. I've seen induced lag from pirates at gate camps. In the past. YARRR!

To be or not to be......sorry can you repeat the question?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Pandion Lord

Fri, 30 May 2008 16:03:00 +0000

Genicus, please keep us posted on this as I am curious as to what CCP's decision is concerning this most peculiar incident. Best of luck my friend.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Chris Jerrico

Fri, 30 May 2008 15:44:00 +0000

Isn't it like this, when you attack thief, you are flagged only for thief, but not for his gangmates and they can't help the thief? If yes, how this raven attacked him if he wasn't flashing red?
The only explanation would be, both of them were thiefs and were attacked by him/his drones.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Hanneshannes

Fri, 30 May 2008 13:24:00 +0000

Has he posted a log yet?

Go to My Documents>EvE>Logs>Gamelogs and then find the one in question (warning, huge amount of logs, so look somewhere closer to the end if it happened recently)

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Babel

Fri, 30 May 2008 12:03:00 +0000

"syphurous is right about the ghost ships, i always have ships appear on my overview that are not actually there"

A rumour abounds that this results from ship/cargo scans done with a passive targetter - scanner pilot becomes 'sticky' on overview - if true then you were a chosen target ..

I'd recommnd sifting thru yr logs and seeing at what point you were actually attacked w. missiles/guns .. and more importantly, what happened just before that .. eg. did you actually open fire first .. perhaps after seeing 'You' scrambled - which would have been a can - not you :)
.

URIEL Recruitish Threaddery

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by FlameGlow

Fri, 30 May 2008 08:33:00 +0000

Originally by: YunFu Yan

This is how it works:

1.)
Someone probes for wrecks or acceleration gates and checks the hits.
You will most likely never notice this as it's usaly done in a covert ops ship.

You probably don't know probing, do you? :)
Wrecks/gates can not be found with probes so probers scan for ships and drones

Originally by: YunFu Yan

2.)
A small expendible ship warps into your mission, loots a container and locks you.
The intention is to get "accidently" shot by you. They might scan your modules at this point.
3.)
If you shoot the player you will find yourself warpscrambled and sensor dampened. Backup will jump in and depending on your ship/fitting they will ransom you or just kill you right away.

Even then only pilot of that ship is allowed to attack you, not everyone and his dog. His backup isn't supposed to be able to attack until you attack them, they can however rep him. If they can attack you then something fishy is going on.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by YunFu Yan

Fri, 30 May 2008 07:56:00 +0000

Edited by: YunFu Yan on 30/05/2008 08:04:39
It's getting more common every day...

This is how it works:

1.)
Someone probes for wrecks or acceleration gates and checks the hits.
You will most likely never notice this as it's usaly done in a covert ops ship.

2.)
A small expendible ship warps into your mission, loots a container and locks you.
The intention is to get "accidently" shot by you. They might scan your modules at this point.

3.)
If you shoot the player you will find yourself warpscrambled and sensor dampened. Backup will jump in and depending on your ship/fitting they will ransom you or just kill you right away.

If you ignore the bait ship it will proceed stealing your loot and salvage but you get to keep your ship at least.

For those doing this it is a win/win. They either get your loot and salvage, a ransom or get to loot your ship.

While this is not an exploit and within the current game mechanics, I personally think it will cause CCP subscription losses once it becomes more public.

They tried on me the other day...
The bait ship was an Osprey. It was probably packed with shield extenders since I locked it very fast.
I unlocked him twice and he provoked autolock back again each time. I then deactivated autolock and decided to ignore him while checking the surrounding systems gates with an alt. Ofcourse he had backup sitting right ontop of one of the gates so I had no choice but lose out on my loot and salvage. (He was actually a picky thief and only salvaged the BS wrecks.)

Soon mission runners will be getting farmed by those wannabe pirates who infact are nothing more but griefing and harrassing.

-------------------------------------------------
Yan Enterprises - We mean business.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Srioghal moDhream

Fri, 30 May 2008 03:06:00 +0000

Edited by: Srioghal moDhream on 30/05/2008 03:10:28
My 2 cents.

1) Your drones auto aggressed, not likely but is possible

2)You had auto target on and shot them, again not likely.

3) Since only one of them is on your kill mail only one of them made any aggression towards you,
two part mission so they probably looted a can before they reached the part you were at making them all flashy. And now we see in the km that the rat did 150k/170k damage so you were hurt pretty bad. Torp raven set to gank means he saw you were weak and opened fire. in a 0.5 system 20k is fairly reasonable expectation. His fellow proceeded to loot you and that loot helped pay the 15mill net loss he suffered from ganking you, probably less since his corp mates looted his wreck and he recovered some of his losses.

Mystery solved, no exploit other then insurance being paid out to concordokken ships.

ps: horrible raven setup imo

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Chainsaw Plankton

Fri, 30 May 2008 01:46:00 +0000

Originally by: Admiral Madbull
searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:

system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611

So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything

havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not

Mistery solved.

Madbull

.

heh go there and start killing cnrs all day yourself then

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Chainsaw Plankton

Fri, 30 May 2008 01:45:00 +0000

Originally by: Kusha'an
Originally by: Hanneshannes
Logging wont save you if you have been engaged.
Huh. The Kronos that got away from my gang the other day by logging at 20% structure would disagree with you.

if he was at 20% structure and then logged well what were you shooting him with a noob ship?

or did he log before you engaged you guys took out his shields and armor and 80% structure and then he disappeared?

without engaging (you not shooting AND them not shooting) you have 2 mins before you disappear, if you have been engaged (they shot you, or you shot them) then you sit in space for 15 mins. also when your ship goes boom your pod will auto warp off, thats still scanable for the 15 minute timer (usually about 14-10 mins depending on how long it took to kill the ship)

open the log that was last modified just after the engagement, and then search for the players name (open in note pad and press ctrl+f) find the first chronological occurrence of his name, it will be him shooting you or you shooting him

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Joe Starbreaker

Thu, 29 May 2008 23:55:00 +0000

Originally by: Princess Jodi
So far the consensus seems to be that the OP either accidentially shot one of them due to autotarget or the OP's drones when wild. Ok, I could see either working, but I'm bothered by the multiple hosiles warping in.

Multiple hostiles warped in, but did not engage. Only one engaged. It's easy for them to get themselves flashy red to the OP. All they had to do was steal from a wreck in the first room, or remote rep somebody who had done so, or something.

The real question is how did they get him to aggress them... by the looks of the killmail, only one of them was actually successful, though the others may have been remote repping that one. Maybe they just all showed up, hoping he'd panic when he saw all the red flashies on the screen. Or maybe they baited him somehow, possibly with the "you" can trick.

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[insert signature here]

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ashina Sito

Thu, 29 May 2008 23:03:00 +0000

Rn your combat log though this parcer on this site. It will show who you hit for what when.

http://www.eve-log.com/

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Anaalys Fluuterby

Thu, 29 May 2008 22:07:00 +0000

This sounds like what happened to one of our corpmates a couple of weeks ago. He warped into the last pocket of a mission and there was a flashy ship waiting. It scrammed and fired before he did without concord intervention.

He petitioned the loss, GM said it was a valid death. We went through every line in his logs for over 1/2 hour back trying to find any indication he had done something and found nothing. We *know* he did not fire first, drones were not deployed in the last room, no smartbombs, etc.

I think there is a bug that CCP hasn't fixed yet but a few people have figured out how to exploit.

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Kusha'an

Thu, 29 May 2008 19:18:00 +0000

Originally by: Hanneshannes
Logging wont save you if you have been engaged.

Huh. The Kronos that got away from my gang the other day by logging at 20% structure would disagree with you.

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What part of "shorn't" do you not understand?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Ulstan

Thu, 29 May 2008 18:14:00 +0000

The only way to actually tell is going to be to look at YOUR combat logs.

There is one for each 'session' and there will be tons in the folder. Look for a really big one on that day and do a search for the name of the guy/ship that killed you to find it in the log.

Then you check to see if he shot you first, or if you shot him first somehow.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Princess Jodi

Thu, 29 May 2008 18:02:00 +0000

So far the consensus seems to be that the OP either accidentially shot one of them due to autotarget or the OP's drones when wild. Ok, I could see either working, but I'm bothered by the multiple hosiles warping in.

The above scenarios rely on someone just being stupid and opening fire accidentally. Granted, Eve is full of stupid people. However, the fact that they were willing to risk multiple ships to a possible Concording makes me feel like they had advance knowledge of a loophole.

For example, the OP don't say 'they were looting all my wrecks.' Yet they were flashing red when they arrived. That implies that they were able to steal from a can somewhere - and not just one of them but all of them. Can the OP clairify if there were any other possible wrecks outside of this mission area that the hostiles could have looted?

I'm just wondering if a group of people can make enough isk off of the occasional mistake of mission runners or occaisional rogue drone activity. They spent time scanning you down - implying that they were specifically targeting mission runners. They ALL took the chance that they could be Concorded - implying that they knew better that they would NOT be Concorded.

Something is a bit too fishy here. These guys knew exactly what they were doing, and apparently have enough success to make it worth their while.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Havohej

Thu, 29 May 2008 18:00:00 +0000

Originally by: Genicus
Thanks for all the good comments so far.
There were lots of loot cans all over the place as it was a big mission and i hadn't collected all the loot yet.

The only thing that i can think of is this:

I always have the full amount of rats targetted and just work my way through them, also using my drones. If the pirate player that was flashing red due to having a negative status lower than minus 5 came into my mission and was auto targetted and i could have accidentally fired on him. If this were the case would i not get the standard message saying that this was a dangerous act? Would my drones possibly attack them after killing a rat? They were all in caldari ships which were the ones in my mission, everything was flashing red as i had full aggro from the mission.

I can't think of anything else

I'm only on page 2 but if this hasn't been pointed out yet PLAYERS WITH SECURITY STATUS BELOW -5.0 (WHICH MAKES THEM FLASH RED ON THE OVERVIEW) ARE NOT ALLOWED IN HIGHSEC SPACE AT ALL - THE FACTION NAVY SPAWNS TO BLOW THEM UP!!!!1!111 Mister "I've been playing for 3 years, I don't make stupid mistakes," you should already know that. They looted a wreck, you shot one, they r@ped you, you thought you could escape by logout (Mister 3 year know-it-all) and you were wrong.

Look on the bright side. You didn't lose a Raven, you gained a pod.

Originally by: techzer0
I'm invincible until proven wrong

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by knowican

Thu, 29 May 2008 17:51:00 +0000

I was flying around in 0.0 and was looting and salvaging wrecks with peoples permission when this guys drones started attacking me and he didnt even lock me. I think drones will autoagress someone if they are flashing red. Has anyone ever had this happen to them before?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Arous Drephius

Thu, 29 May 2008 17:18:00 +0000

Originally by: Admiral Madbull
searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:

system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611

So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything

havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not

Mistery solved.

Madbull

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Did you not read the earlier post? Sec status gets rounded up. Truesec doesn't mean **** to CONCORD.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Sniper Wolf18

Thu, 29 May 2008 17:08:00 +0000

Originally by: Admiral Madbull
searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:

system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611

So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything

havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not

Mistery solved.

Madbull

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Then how come bubbles dont work in a 0.09999999 system?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Arous Drephius

Thu, 29 May 2008 17:05:00 +0000

Originally by: Sunwillow Auryn
Not sure about this... I remember when I did trading between Caldari and Gallente that I happened to stray into Gallente space with a standing with the Federation of less than -5 (curse all those anti-Gallente missions the Caldari agents give out!). I was in a freighter, which aren't the most nimble of ships, and I didn't have much trouble with the navy fleet - took a couple of little hits to shield is about all. As I am so carebear I stray into pink fluffy bunny territory, it was definitely a bit of a sphincter-loosener.

Bad sec status gets a different response than bad faction standing IIRC.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Admiral Madbull

Thu, 29 May 2008 17:02:00 +0000

searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:

system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611

So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything

havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not

Mistery solved.

Madbull

.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Sunwillow Auryn

Thu, 29 May 2008 16:28:00 +0000

Edited by: Sunwillow Auryn on 29/05/2008 16:34:25

Originally by: Omarvelous
Edited by: Omarvelous on 29/05/2008 14:42:38You are in 0.5 high-sec - outlaws would have been shot on site by the Caldari Navy Police at the incoming stargate from low sec. Anyone -4.5 and worse cannot enter high sec without getting jammed, scrammed, and fired on by the faction police at the stargate. Sure outlaws can fly shuttles to fly faster than the police can lock and scram them - but you were killed by a Raven, which would have never made it to you.

Not sure about this... I remember when I did trading between Caldari and Gallente that I happened to stray into Gallente space with a standing with the Federation of less than -5 (curse all those anti-Gallente missions the Caldari agents give out!). I was in a freighter, which aren't the most nimble of ships, and I didn't have much trouble with the navy fleet - took a couple of little hits to shield is about all. As I am so carebear I stray into pink fluffy bunny territory, it was definitely a bit of a sphincter-loosener.

Regarding the situation though - I have speed-read through the thread (at work though so had to do work stuff now and then ;) and not sure if it has been mentioned - were you grinding missions, and is there the possibility that you left some cans unlooted in another mission? Cans and wrecks last for 2 hours after they hit space, and will survive the collapse of deadspace around them... so these guys could have scanned down some loot from a previous mission, saw they were yours, then looted them to flash red to you and then scanned you down as well.

It seems from your account that there was a bit of time between them warping into your mission and scrambling you. This leads me to believe that they must ahve been waiting for something to happen to get you flashing red to them. Suspect a rogue drone may be the reason and it attacked them because you were entitled to do so - they can be a tad stupid at times.

I don't buy the accidental shot thing - a player's whole name flashing red in the overview is nothing like a rat flashing when they have you targeted.

Unless of course you tried to do as many of the Pew-vs-Pew guys say and "grow a pair", engaged the pirates on their own terms and paid the price, and you are too proud to admit defeat :) Don't think that's likely reading what I have though! :)

Edit - just thought, if a rogue drone did attack one of them, flashing you red to them, could the rest of that target's gang tackle the drone and get you flashing as well? I'm not too hot on how this aggro thing works so I could be entirely wrong there.

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by steave435

Thu, 29 May 2008 15:44:00 +0000

Originally by: spanky herman
It's page 3 and no one has asked this yet, did he possibly have kill rights on you?

He was flashy red at 1.1 so is this someone you've had friendlily duel(s) with perhaps or an ore/can thief you've blown up earlier that didnt seem to shoot back?

Quote:
I have no killrights, bounty, never done any piracy or pvp with this character so no reason for anyone to attack me.

Quote:
NO ONE HAS KILLRIGHTS AGAINST ME, I HAVE NOT DONE ANY PIRACY, PVP OR EVEN ENTERED INTO LOW SEC SO THEREFORE NO ONE CAN LEGLLY HAVE A RIGHT TO SHOOT AT ME WHILE IN HIGH SEC.

Just a few examples

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by spanky herman

Thu, 29 May 2008 15:18:00 +0000

It's page 3 and no one has asked this yet, did he possibly have kill rights on you?

He was flashy red at 1.1 so is this someone you've had friendlily duel(s) with perhaps or an ore/can thief you've blown up earlier that didnt seem to shoot back?

IS THIS AN EXPLOIT - by Genicus

Thu, 29 May 2008 14:51:00 +0000

That sounds like what probably happened or something very close to that. Thanks