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Help Spread Some Good Will... - by d0uble rAinbow

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:20:00 +0000

OP is legit - Lets get this 'pay it forward' campaign moving. All these white knights with their ehonour to defend can put their isk where their mouth is. Start paying it forward. Spread the love to the victim and all people.

Restitution has been paid along with an apology

Let your hate about the election go - that is the path to the darkside

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by CCP Phantom

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:20:00 +0000

Begging is not allowed on the forums.

Thread locked.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Krixtal Icefluxor

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:16:00 +0000

Pretty fast, Lock. Only one in before you

I feel sorry for Guard and Phantom. They are LOVING the EVE Community atm.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by THE L0CK

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:13:00 +0000

Another useful and informative thread

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Doc Fury

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:12:00 +0000

IBTL

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Stigman Zuwadza

Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:11:00 +0000

With all the recent negativity generated by current events I propose a Good Will campaign of sorts.

How can we achieve this, simple...

G All those people about to leave / leaving in disgust ... remember to contract all your stuff to me.
G Donate any amount of ISK to me.

With all the stuff I accumulate through this program I will start spreading the love that is much needed in Eve at this moment in time.

Please be generous, as the more you give, the more love I can spread.

Lets get Eve feeling good about itself again and help perpetuate all that is good in Eve.

Fly safe.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:53:00 +0000

Originally by: Darius Shakor
TGIF, You make some good points except one that I do not agree with.

Quote:
chaining in a region causes loss in standings and cost in production, refining etc. In other words npc hunting in the region of your alliance means corporation standings dropping and the alliance itself not beeing able to operate in the region after a while anymore.

You think this is wrong? I assume you are talking about 0.0 space that is controled by an npc faction right? Lets take curse for example. It's controlled by the Angel Cartel. You think you should beable to fly in there, shoot down their ships in roid belts and have them like you? It is after all "their space" game wise, not yours. It's marked that way on the map after all.

Other than that, as for the tempest, my advice is to adapt to the changes. Try faster tracking weapons and move in a little closer is needed. It won't kill you. Thats what I am doing with mine. I am going down the weapon sizes and trying them out against various npc's with and without tracking mods.

Like i said and i repeated myself over and over, if i wanted this type of playing i would not have invested over 3 or more months in getting my gunnery skills up. Based upon the 1400 i have decided to higher some level's on certain gunnery skills that i found a profitable skill to spend my time in. If my playstyle back then was close range i would have rather upped my skills to use more drones, use cap drainers at a better stage and my close range skills would be more trained out. What people say with adapt or die is that you just have to forget the reason why you trained 3-4 months of training, and just accept you trained worthless skills. YES for me they are worthless.

Also i would agree with your reasoning about the NPC's factions if they had stations that could be conquerable or that you have your own stations and you are not dependant on them. But this is not the case, and you are dependant on these factions without having another option. THAT is my problem with these changes.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Darius Shakor

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:25:00 +0000

TGIF, You make some good points except one that I do not agree with.

Quote:
chaining in a region causes loss in standings and cost in production, refining etc. In other words npc hunting in the region of your alliance means corporation standings dropping and the alliance itself not beeing able to operate in the region after a while anymore.

You think this is wrong? I assume you are talking about 0.0 space that is controled by an npc faction right? Lets take curse for example. It's controlled by the Angel Cartel. You think you should beable to fly in there, shoot down their ships in roid belts and have them like you? It is after all "their space" game wise, not yours. It's marked that way on the map after all.

Other than that, as for the tempest, my advice is to adapt to the changes. Try faster tracking weapons and move in a little closer is needed. It won't kill you. Thats what I am doing with mine. I am going down the weapon sizes and trying them out against various npc's with and without tracking mods.
------

Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Estios

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:38:00 +0000

OMG seriously are you even reading what I or some others who have been experimenting are typing Rodj ??

Its got nothing to do with all this crap about 'use the right guns against the right target'

Im telling you to get in a BS, ideally Tempest with 1400's and get a corp mate in a Scorp (or any BS) and get to optimal range and then start traversing each other at max speed (a whopping 181m/s which is not a fast moving target imho) and try and hit him.
I posted my log last night in my thread which got locked. I hit twice out of 30 shots !!!!

This is against a ******* battleship. Now are you trying to tell me that this is what was intended ? or to adapt ? Thats utter crap. BS to BS hits needed very little changes. Right now if you get your traversing right you could probably never be killed.

The whole mixed fleet argument is moot, they were viable and very effective before the patch and whilst all these mathmatics and tracking changes are great in theory they are totally fubar'd and have been implemented about 3 weeks early and have been tested by the blind.

Im not one of these to post Im quitting, I will simply wait till drones and missles are nerfed like turrets and jump in my Claw and in a pack will laugh at BS's as they explode.

So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Corin Raven

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:37:00 +0000

I have to say I love the new patch. My other character is a Gallante battlship pilot. I use guns and Drones in that so no complaints there.

Also in this account I primarily use cruisers and frigates, simply better now as the patch will encouarge my oppoants to do so as well.

Rodj, when I'm on the battle field, I look forward to smaller ship to ship skirmishes with you.

-------------------------------

Proud Captain of the CRS Loki-II (Rupture Class)

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Rodj Blake

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:20:00 +0000

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/06/2004 12:22:05
I actually quite like the patch.

Sure, the tachyons on my Apoc, and the 250mm rails on my Maller don't hit quite as hard as they used to, but against the targets they're designed for, they're still pretty effective. I also briefly flew a projectile equipped cruiser last night, it wasn't as bad as some people are making out - if you use the guns against the right target.

The thing is, if guns are less effective than before, it's not just you that's getting nerfed - it's your opponent as well. The result? Longer battles. And that's not a bad thing imho.

Also, I don't have a problem with big guns not being able to hit small ships. If there's a blackbird jamming you, there's more incentive now to bring along an cruiser to escort you. Pesky frigs warp scrambling you? No problem, just call in the local neighbourhood interceptor. This patch could lead to mixed fleets being viable. Or maybe, just maybe, people could fit a gun on their battleship for point defence.

Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Frank Horrigan

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:06:00 +0000

If they dont un nerf this I swear its the last straw... I feel the same anger to ccp as the corp that backstabbed me and killed my battle ship

Originally by: Oveur

Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?

Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Gariuys

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:06:00 +0000

I will refrain from flaming, but everyone has trouble atm getting used to the new system and at what ranges and speeds etc. guns are doing their job. Instead of filling a thread with I will quit bull ( NOBODY and I mean NOBODY cares ) cause my 1400s dont work at the ranges and speeds it used too. You didn't learn to play the game in 2 hours the first time, don't expect to just hop in your ship and go about your business like nothing changed. This brought a really big change and you need to give yourself and the game time to adjust to the new system.

Besides that, it isn't just 1400s it's every turret in game. So switching to a different ship won't do you much good.
{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Frank Horrigan

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:00:00 +0000

Edited by: Frank Horrigan on 16/06/2004 12:03:23
HAHA i was just about to insure my tempest today and boom this happens.. now i can sell it and go back to apoc..

EDIT: WTS TEMPEST BATTLE SHIP 32M FREE 1400MM'S

Originally by: Oveur

Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?

Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:54:00 +0000

same.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Iluyen

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:10:00 +0000

I totally agree with TGIF and Estios. The funny thing is I was worried about the MWD nerf because as I have said it doesn't make sens to me to fit a mod that gives you penalties to cap but is supposed to make you harder to hit then remove only the fact that makes you harder to hit. I clearly underestimated the devs stupidity as they now also made it impossible to hit anyting while mwding.

I won't adapt and I won't die, I'll just cancel my account at the end of this cycle if they haven't announced they are going to fix this by then.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Iluyen

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:09:00 +0000

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:07:00 +0000

Originally by: Pel Mel
Edited by: Pel Mel on 16/06/2004 10:49:39
unfortunatly TGIF, i have to Disagree...i am not full of anything except the truth.

Just like yourself I am specializing in the tempest..but im not complaining or calling you profane words.

Have you even tried another setup other than 1400's for anytime longer than a day?

Remember I was corp m8s with ya....and I know your patience is not the best.

ya gotta move on man...stop trying to defend the 1400's....try the 800's....Hell i even know that the 425mms are excelent on a tempest you just gotta try different things.

Think of it as college ya just gotta go out there and experiment

EDIT: and btw i can use 2 other races Battleship if I choose to aswell...but im not going to

In or out corpm8, it does not mather to me. I will say what i think, as former Omega member you should know that.

So basicly your saying: Forget about the 1400, use guns for tactics you don't want to play with. Use shortrange guns now, even if its not your ballpark.

800mm is a shortrange gun, the 1400 is a long range gun. The tempest was a long range fighter, people started to like that and started training these skills. Using other guns does not maintain a playstyle or attitude.

According to you its totally normal that a gun that once was claimed to be the best out there, misses 90% and because of that you have to evade to other guns that arent even given you a racial bonus.

Like i said: I would not had trained all my gunnery skills up to level 5 if i would have used 425mm's or even 800mm's, CCP made me waste my time on skills that _I_ thought were worth training because of the 1400mm.

Infact if i was aware of these changes i would have had 2 battleship skills at level 5 allready.

So adapting is not the issue, you might remember well enough that i am able to fly all ships and have resources to do so. The mather here is that because i was able to fly them all, i had to chose under the circumstances back then to specialise into a ship. A ship that was not marked by CCP as defect or broken and to me and alot of other people seemed perfectly balanced except for the short range shooting.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:07:00 +0000

Originally by: Pel Mel
Edited by: Pel Mel on 16/06/2004 10:49:39
unfortunatly TGIF, i have to Disagree...i am not full of anything except the truth.

Just like yourself I am specializing in the tempest..but im not complaining or calling you profane words.

Have you even tried another setup other than 1400's for anytime longer than a day?

Remember I was corp m8s with ya....and I know your patience is not the best.

ya gotta move on man...stop trying to defend the 1400's....try the 800's....Hell i even know that the 425mms are excelent on a tempest you just gotta try different things.

Think of it as college ya just gotta go out there and experiment

EDIT: and btw i can use 2 other races Battleship if I choose to aswell...but im not going to

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Do'si'Do Hodown

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:03:00 +0000

In the evening I like to relax , a few bacardis maybe a few stella artios ( if the wife lets me ) , oh yea , any idea how I can make my tempest not suck ?

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Pel Mel

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:45:00 +0000

Edited by: Pel Mel on 16/06/2004 10:49:39
unfortunatly TGIF, i have to Disagree...i am not full of anything except the truth.

Just like yourself I am specializing in the tempest..but im not complaining or calling you profane words.

Have you even tried another setup other than 1400's for anytime longer than a day?

Remember I was corp m8s with ya....and I know your patience is not the best.

ya gotta move on man...stop trying to defend the 1400's....try the 800's....Hell i even know that the 425mms are excelent on a tempest you just gotta try different things.

Think of it as college ya just gotta go out there and experiment

EDIT: and btw i can use 2 other races Battleship if I choose to aswell...but im not going to

Originally by: Eris Discordia
I pwn all.

Eris Discordia wtfpwns this thread using fastlockbeamz0r and wrecks for omgwtflock!! damage

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:06:00 +0000

I am interested in if the devs themselves are happy with the end result.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Estios

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:12:00 +0000

For whats its worth (my thread got locked) I totally agree.

I chose to specialise in Minmatar ships as opposed to be a jack of all trades .....I now realise this was naive to do in a mmorpg.

After months training Large proj to 5 and Minnie BS to 5 Im GUTTED. Last night I saw my ship get hit so hard with the nerf back it almost travelled back in time.

Im hearing EVERYONE hates the tracking changes but of course they have hit the Tempest the worst with its crappy pre-patch tracking anyway.

I never thought one patch could leave me so dis-illusioned with a game I used to love.

So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by jason hill

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:06:00 +0000

never really could see the point of setting my alarm for 3:30 am skill change ..
is this what the rant is trully aboout ???

"THE HUMAN SHIELD"

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:02:00 +0000

Originally by: Kildarin Farushna
1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's,

that's the only thing peeps write about....
ccp introduced more guns then only your 1400mm's.

Ok,

800's suck too.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Xelios

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:00:00 +0000

So what's the best pvp ship out there now? Apoc?

If it is, expect that to be nerfed next patch.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Kildarin Farushna

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:52:00 +0000

1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's, 1400mm's,

that's the only thing peeps write about....
ccp introduced more guns then only your 1400mm's.

____

->Lawless<-
>>>New Formula<<<
>>In your local 0.4 system soon<<

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Sally

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:42:00 +0000

Yup, respec stones need to be introduced :).
--
Stories: #1
--

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:40:00 +0000

Originally by: Pel Mel
geeze didnt relize that my comment would attract so much attention.

But its all in all true...if you cant adapt you will die simple as that. might be harsh but its as correct as it will get...

What did we do after castor when it was impossible to mine without a fleet...Adapt, what happened to those that didnt? they died.

Sad but true my friends

Castor patch was changed because people couldnt do ****, so your full of ****. In that case the game adapted, since the npc spawns were insane, people were not leaving the stations and so on.

People who say: Train a allround character.

I have, i have all the other racial skills at level 4 or level 3. Enough to hop in another battleship, and i have enough in my hangars. But that doesnt mather, i have spend 50 days because i liked a game mechanism and since this wasn't named as a bugged game mechanism i adapted to it. And i liked it, i liked shooting from long range and beeing proud on doing 1400 damage in once of the few hundred shots i did.

That the rest of the battleships could not match a tempest, scorpion or raven did not ment these ships were too good. It ment that the others had to be upgraded more.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Pel Mel

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:55:00 +0000

geeze didnt relize that my comment would attract so much attention.

But its all in all true...if you cant adapt you will die simple as that. might be harsh but its as correct as it will get...

What did we do after castor when it was impossible to mine without a fleet...Adapt, what happened to those that didnt? they died.

Sad but true my friends

Originally by: Eris Discordia
I pwn all.

Eris Discordia wtfpwns this thread using fastlockbeamz0r and wrecks for omgwtflock!! damage

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Kcel Chim

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:06:00 +0000

Originally by: Aleis
Thank to [Insert patch Name] my [insert ship] is now a [insert insult] junk. I spent [insert Length of time] training for [insert specialty that could kick every ones but] just to have it nerfed to [Insert adjective desribing nothing].

Copy paste think i've seen this post before, what was it last patch? or the one before it+

And you know what in 4 more rounds you've gone through all the races and back to beeing supper uber speced in the ultimate combo again, or some one comes out with a new set up that works.

not beeing a combat guy myself i guess i'm a little jaded about the "nerfings" that happen abut you know what your skills still work, true maybe you can't use that exact set up to the effect you where looking for but spend maybe 2 hours trying some other set-ups before you start Flaming the forums, You never know Tempest with duel 650's and energy newts might be perfect with your skill set. Tried it yet? or haven't even looked at another one?

Ofc you can still fly a tempest but the 650mm arent like 1400 rangewise and damagewise, thats shortrange vs mid/longrange.
On a sidenote this would be like removing certain R&D agents out of the game just for the fun of it and ppl just losing the time they invested in it or making a ship completely useless ppl bothered to buy bpo's from to produce it. By ill planned fixing you destroy work ppl have put time into, surely they CAN survive and adopt to it i guess most are just ****ed about the time/money they wasted uselessly instead of doing other things.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Kcel Chim

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:03:00 +0000

Originally by: Tyto
I'm really sorry to hear that you put so much training into a specialisation like that.

To specialise too much simply doesn't pay. It only takes a small change in the environment for you to feel the pain. In the natural world it's called evolution. You have specialised yourself into an evolutionary dead end (you're a Panda ). I don't want to just say "adapt or die", that sounds very harsh, and I'm not having a go at you, but you really do need to adapt, and train a more rounded character, THEN specialise. Changes then won't hurt do much.

Just my thoughts.

tbh you know thats pretty much bollox. First of all this is a game with a longtime goal, training your character. If ccp changes sometime the "rules" and disadvantage characters who adopted to the rules they have known that is a bad move. Your argument already starts to be flawed at the point where you tell ppl to play the way you think is right, i.e. a rounded character. Pardon me if im harsh but i found nowhere that my minmataar char must be able to fly caldari ships, and thats not even touching the level "rp". Some ppl wanna play the game like it is suppsed to be and develop not just stats but a character. "Badass wingman who loves to go for longrange to your aid sir" while others prefer other more agressive playingstyles. Neither you nor i are to judge who is right or wrong, afterall they all pay and if ccp changes the rules of engagement every now and then im personally dissappointed in it. Afterall noone forces me or anyone else to pay for this game and simply if they disadvantage paying customers unfairly they will feel it in the longrun.
The hahahaha comments are just silly as it can get to you next time in the same way. I personally can fly 3 races ships all classes so "theoretically" i wouldnt give a damn since i could just hop to something which is more leet. somehow over the last month i started to like the tempest and its setup since it helped my playstyle and the playstyle of my teamm8s i dont see what justifies to change that from one day to the other with some radical and ill throught through changes.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Aleis

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:01:00 +0000

Thank to [Insert patch Name] my [insert ship] is now a [insert insult] junk. I spent [insert Length of time] training for [insert specialty that could kick every ones but] just to have it nerfed to [Insert adjective desribing nothing].

Copy paste think i've seen this post before, what was it last patch? or the one before it+

And you know what in 4 more rounds you've gone through all the races and back to beeing supper uber speced in the ultimate combo again, or some one comes out with a new set up that works.

not beeing a combat guy myself i guess i'm a little jaded about the "nerfings" that happen abut you know what your skills still work, true maybe you can't use that exact set up to the effect you where looking for but spend maybe 2 hours trying some other set-ups before you start Flaming the forums, You never know Tempest with duel 650's and energy newts might be perfect with your skill set. Tried it yet? or haven't even looked at another one?

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Tyto

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:33:00 +0000

I'm really sorry to hear that you put so much training into a specialisation like that.

To specialise too much simply doesn't pay. It only takes a small change in the environment for you to feel the pain. In the natural world it's called evolution. You have specialised yourself into an evolutionary dead end (you're a Panda ). I don't want to just say "adapt or die", that sounds very harsh, and I'm not having a go at you, but you really do need to adapt, and train a more rounded character, THEN specialise. Changes then won't hurt do much.

Just my thoughts.

"Dulce Bellum Inexpertis"

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Matrix Aran

Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Originally by: Pel Mel
Adapt or die...

I must agree. There are many ways to turn the tempest into a worthwhile ship, and as for comment about the cruise launcher, that aparently is gonna be realeased whenever they fix the market bugs. Personaly I want my 350mm rail.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Bohr

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:52:00 +0000

Edited by: Bohr on 16/06/2004 00:06:17

Originally by: Pel Mel
Adapt or die...thats all i gotta say.

You're a sick man

Edit: Sorry for being angry, but the adapt or die parole normally ****es me off. Atm Raven and ofc Scorp seems the best bss in game, and i for one would hate to see a fleet battle consisting of only those ships. It's normally something a hillbilly spurts out and feel bright about, and are generally offending to me.

If you talk about not getting everything served on a plate, then yes, but balancing in a game are meant to give all races, or whatever, a somewhat fair shot at becoming good, not make one race or class supreme. The minmatar ships had an excellent position as heavy support fire for a fleet, and are now reduced to a med range gun, and a bad and slow one at that :/ I think there's plenty reason to discuss some of the balancing further.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Pel Mel

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:24:00 +0000

Adapt or die...thats all i gotta say.

I have also been concentrating my skills for the past 3 months on the tempest. But i will figure new setups, configs and what not.

im just glad i got caldari BS trained now just incase

Originally by: Eris Discordia
I pwn all.

Eris Discordia wtfpwns this thread using fastlockbeamz0r and wrecks for omgwtflock!! damage

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:07:00 +0000

Originally by: Watson
Ok, I'm confused here... I don't see how these skills are specialized for a tempest using only 1400mm's...

Weapon Upgrades, Surgical Strike, and Rapid Firing training to level 5 applies to all ships and gun types... So that training isn't a waste of time for sure.

Large Projectile 4 is more specialized, but level 4 is nowhere near the timesink that lv 5 is... also, that skill training applies to all the large projectiles... there are more than just 1400mm's out there The guns that have the biggest hits don't always do the most damage over time.

The only truly big timesink into a specialized skill that I see here is minmatar battleship 5 . That's a lot of patience you have there. I'm sure it'll come in handy though.

No, because these changes mathered more on a tempest and made the time spend on these skills more worth the time than training it for another battleship.

For instance the rapid firing:

You get 5% bonus, the rof of a 1400 is 23.63 BASE. 5% of 23.63s = 1.18seconds off that= 22.45seconds rof 1st level and so on and so on.

Now 425mm:

5% bonus on a rof of 9.56 seconds is 0.57 seconds off that rof = 8.99, and that every level.

So the advantage of training a skill 17 days or 30 days to level 5 on a 1400mm is far greater than on a 425mm. ALL these skills i would NOT trained to level 5 if i didn't used a tempest with 1400's, since the time spend on training would not be worth the advantage from these skills.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Tyrrant

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:01:00 +0000

I agree with you completely Josh, there was some balanceing needed. They took it way to far, and still are lackin the content. That is what will kill this game. Rite now im so mad at CCP for this that im wishin it does die . Im sure it will pass over time, but the fact that my 1400's can not hit anything that is moving, or when i am movin, makes me sick. A 1400mm bullet is about 5ft in real life if im rite, that is a huge bullet. the fact that a lazer can track and hits more often i get, b/c they travel in a strait line. the fact that they made the 5ft bullet completely useless ****es me off. And then they dont release the Cruise launchers, making the 4/4 setup COMPLETLY USELESS.

CCP Focus on content once you fix this. Do us a favor and stop ******* things up.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:56:00 +0000

Originally by: Joshua Calvert
It is ironic that we're being directed towards specializing our skill training and yet these constant and unsettling balance changes mean a lot of people get hit really quite hard with each repeated set of balance adjustments.

CCP, can you not realise that we appreciate the balance changes but you are concentrating FAR too much on balance instead o bringing us what we want: content.

EXACTLY! thats what i wanted to get clear.

It is not a mather how l33t or baaaaahaaad another ship was, or how nerfed an apoc was before or not. It is about people spending time and resources in development of their character because there ship has a specialisation type that attracts them.

The tempest WAS uber because it was still able to hit on short range and i dont think people who fly tempest would mind removing that ability, but removing the ability to even hit in OPTIMAL range is a bit too much.

People see the tempest wrong, they see the tempest as a ship that did 1400 damage each shot, but infact the DOT was LOWER than a 425mm.

I can adapt to these changes, i have an armor tanking apoc and a scorpion allready in my hangar. But do we really want to go back to the period where scorpion was the only ship that was worth using in pvp.
- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Watson

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:55:00 +0000

Edited by: Watson on 15/06/2004 22:01:21
Ok, I'm confused here... I don't see how these skills are specialized for a tempest using only 1400mm's...

Weapon Upgrades, Surgical Strike, and Rapid Firing training to level 5 applies to all ships and gun types... So that training isn't a waste of time for sure.

Large Projectile 4 is more specialized, but level 4 is nowhere near the timesink that lv 5 is... also, that skill training applies to all the large projectiles... there are more than just 1400mm's out there The guns that have the biggest hits don't always do the most damage over time.

The only truly big timesink into a specialized skill that I see here is minmatar battleship 5 . That's a lot of patience you have there. I'm sure it'll come in handy though.

From what I'm reading, it looks like over the next couple weeks we'll all be having to adapt quite a bit to a new set of rules...

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:48:00 +0000

Scorpion never lost its firepower or Ewar effectiveness. The Scorpion was still best pvp ship ingame and it still is. A fleet with more ewar than the other fleet will win ALWAYS, no mather the setup.

What mathers here is that my tempest now does the same damage as a apoc with tachyons while i have level 3 amarr bs and level 3 large lasers. Thats atleast 1 level lower than my tempest each skill, in other words Apoc allready WAS the uber ship in its own type: mining. And with the proper setup it PWNED my ship in every 1vs1.

It was the uber mining ship and it still is, and now its an uber pvp ship in any combat type. What does the minmatar tempest get in return?

It is easy to say CCP wanted short range fighting, but it would have been nice to do some BALANCE. I now have a tempest that hits worse than ANY battleship in the game, and like a corpmate has stated the tempest is only good for one reason now: Refine and make other ships from it.

For those who comment so far, please pick up a 1400mm and get a tempest on chaos and do some tests. Then pick up a 425mm, a tachyon or any type of highest class gun and tell me at what territory it can beat these other guns at.

1400 lacks tracking, and misses 90% the 425mm and tachyon hit more
The damage is LOWER than a tachyon and 425mm
The range of 425mm doesnt match the 1400, but the tachyon can.
The tachyon and 425mm DO hit in optimal range, the 1400 doesnt.

The ones responding now are known for not flying tempest as basic ship, infact i think atleast one of these two persons dont even own a tempest. Get one on chaos, test it and ask yourself: Is this an ship that can specialise in anything?

- - -

Absinthe Fueled

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Zazita

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:46:00 +0000

The MegaT and the APOC seem to be darn nice ships these days, sorry for my exreme lack of pitty for the tempest pilots, oh, no wait, i aint sorry LOL...

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Joshua Calvert

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:43:00 +0000

It is ironic that we're being directed towards specializing our skill training and yet these constant and unsettling balance changes mean a lot of people get hit really quite hard with each repeated set of balance adjustments.

CCP, can you not realise that we appreciate the balance changes but you are concentrating FAR too much on balance instead o bringing us what we want: content.

LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Wishdokkta

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:37:00 +0000

I must agree with TGIF. I do not have quite that amount of skill points, but at least 80% of my skills have been specifically trained with a view to flying a Tempest. I have a couple of points on this.

1. The Typhoon with its 10% optimal range bonus has a more accurate and longer optimal range shot. Accepted, the damage is not as high because of the bonus on Temp, but I have consistently hit better with the Phoon. This cannot be right for a BS that is tier 2 and costing 30/40mill more.

2. 1400mm Howy - Base Falloff = 30,000 1200mm - Base falloff = 30,000. Wtf?

3. 1400mm Optimal = 40,000 (10,000 MORE than the falloff) wtf?

Are these figures correct? If they are it makes NO mathemtical sense at all.

My point is basically that the 1400 seems to have been over-nerfed - I dont disagree with u Josh, balancing is important but now the tempest, without its 1400 fairs poorly in comparison with the other BS. And with them it doesnt fair atall. I have tested my 1400 on a BS and it just doesnt compare. Please reverse this decision CCP or at least re-evaluate the falloff hit of -50%.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Joshua Calvert

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:19:00 +0000

I guess everyone knows what Scorpion pilots felt like all those months ago...

LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Moah

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:14:00 +0000

1. tempest was the uber ship
3. apoc is the uber ship
4. what do you think the apoc pilots said about ccp when the lasers were nerved?
5. I cant (or won't) fly any of them...

Fancy.

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by Joshua Calvert

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:12:00 +0000

I could never understand the fascination with the long-range Tempest, tbh.

I think its biggest fans only love it for bragging rights about the biggest wrecking hit.

All of the large BS-sized guns have taken a nerfing. It seems CCP are trying to drive us towards shorter-range faster-tracking weapons.

LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Help Spread Some Good Will... - by TGIF

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:00:00 +0000

My tempest is ******, its *****,

In one patch CCP has destroyed more than 6 months of specialised training, training that i would have never started if CCP clearly had stated that they wanted to turn a tempest or any minmatar battleship into what it looks: A heap of ****** metal.

- I have trained for level 5 weapon upgrades so i could use my tempest setup effectively, i didnt needed it for any other battleship so i wasted 14 days training on that. Since now today im able to fit 6x 1400's without any problem, personally i loved it that it took some training to get a high damage output. Now it doesnt mather how much you train for the tempest, the damage output stays the same.

- Surgical strike level 5 for just that little bit of extra damage to get a bit more out of that specialisation of the 1400mm: A huge damage output in single shots with high rof of 10 seconds, this makes the high damage output easy to justify the damage output. Where i used to get 400 damage each shot IF i got a shot, i now get 150 damage a shot average. So now i have a 425mm with the rof of a 1400.

- Rapid firing level 5 was a skill i trained for the 1400mm, the rate of fire is so high on a 1400mm that every little bit of bonus % helps alot. On other guns this bonus is less thus less worth of the time training.

- Large projectiles i trained to level 4, since before the patch i could hit high damage every shot i did and those hits were done in 50% each shot. So before i hit once in two shots, after the patch i now hit once every 10 shots and thats not even the best part.

1400mm doesn't hit its target in 90% of the cases at OPTIMAL range now, and even IF it hits the damage output is 150 damage average. The maximum damage i did was 250 damage with a well aimed shot, well aimeds were 600 damage before.

So basicly the 1400 has now one of worst damage + worst rof.

My point about these gunnery skills is that i would not have trained them if these changes were known, i would not had spend over 6 months training to get my gunnery skills up, i would not have spend over 2-3 months and 2-3 mil in gunnery to get my guns working at top. I would have had level 5 cruise missles and all other level 5 missle related skills and i would have spend some time into caldari battleship level 5.

Regarding Battleship level 5, i had 3 days left on minmatar battleship level 5. It took me 50 days to get to this point, so i wasted 50 days on a skill that i specificly chosen over caldari battleship for the following reasons:

- Tempest WAS an unique ship, it has a rof bonus and dmg bonus.
- Tempest with 1400's was a long range damage dealer with maximum damage of 1400 damage every couple of hundred hits, the negative point about this all was that the ROF lowered the DOT in such a way that other guns like the 425mm still had superior DOT. So the damage was good (sometimes) but its DOT got lower due to the 1400's WORST tracking ingame and WORST ROF.
- Tempest unique specialty was speed, but now the 1400mm doesnt hit **** partly because of it, that doesnt mather.

I have spend OVER 6 months training, training skills that are WORTHLESS for my playstyle since this patch. A playstyle that I ADAPTED TOO because of the current system back then, a system that has been the same for over 6 months+ and that never been mentioned by CCP as broken.

END CONCLUSION [jade mode]

One of my accounts has been turned into a 10miljoin skillpoint account that i cannot play under the current patch, a worthless account to me due to its specialisation which is meaningless in this patch.

I will start training on this account for another 50 days and close the accounts payment and see if i even bother reactivating this account in a few months.

But personally i feel even going into drastic movements:

Close all my accounts due to the reason that these changes didnt only negatively affected 6 months of invested time, but also the game is unplayable:

Brackets are not displayed properly, market cannot be accesed, chaining in a region causes loss in standings and cost in production, refining etc. In other words npc hunting in the region of your alliance means corporation standings dropping and the alliance itself not beeing able to operate in the region after a while anymore. Doing agent missions is NOT an option for pvp alliances. Sentry guns are exploitable, they miss every shot and concord doesnt respond. This is not a exploit tbh because CCP was aware of this before bringing this patch in and therefor intentionally brought this change in. Because of these actions we can only assume that this change was an intention and due to the lack of communication of CCP's side killing 1000's of people in Yulai is allowed till CCP communicate properly regarding this issue. And i can go on for AGES.

So in other words

- - -

Absinthe Fueled