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MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
277
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 02:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
The only problem with Eve Online is that real life gets in the way. I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do |
scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 02:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:The only problem with Eve Online is that real life gets in the way.
Quit your job? |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
824
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 02:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Another scooter thread. Another thread locked for no content. Whoopty ******* do. |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
278
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 02:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:MadMuppet wrote:The only problem with Eve Online is that real life gets in the way. Quit your job?
I could never tank the wife aggro. I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6250
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 02:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech Does not apply to EVE. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
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Posted - 2012.04.24 02:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech Does not apply to EVE.
It did, it ought to. Instead of working on WiS they should be focusing their attention on more important world shaping issues such as this. |
Ai Shun
726
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Posted - 2012.04.24 02:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech Does not apply to EVE. It did, it ought to. Instead of working on WiS they should be focusing their attention on more important world shaping issues such as this.
Are you in the United States? EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6250
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 02:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:It did, it ought to. No, and no. Free speech does not apply to private entities and certainly not to games run by those private entities.
Want to express yourself freely? Good news: you're (largely) free to do it somewhere else. Around here, you have no such right or privilege. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Knarf Truesdale
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.04.24 02:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
hmmmm... cookies.... CCP 2009:-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
CCP 2012:-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r0KHMrjmk0
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Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
442
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Posted - 2012.04.24 02:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:I wondered why my tinfoil stocks were going crazy. I then found out that scooter had posted. If been constantly vigilant and trying to ward of hate mongers and those that would oppress that weak requires a tin foil fat then I will take two.
Hows that war against Goons goin?
scooter Kondur wrote:Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech Does not apply to EVE. It did, it ought to. Instead of working on WiS they should be focusing their attention on more important world shaping issues such as this.
Oh hell now you did it, you mentioned WiS. The thread'll get locked for sure now https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909
My stance on WiS (updated) |
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scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
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Posted - 2012.04.24 02:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:It did, it ought to. No, and no. Free speech does not apply to private entities and certainly not to games run by those private entities. Want to express yourself freely? Good news: you're (largely) free to do it somewhere else. Around here, you have no such right or privilege.
My house my rules? No unless you like to be treated like a 5 year old. And it doesn't matter companies are still subject to the laws of the land. And the law of the internet is Free Speech.
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Ai Shun
726
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Posted - 2012.04.24 03:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
This is going to be interesting; Tippia and Scooter arguing free speech. A logical and argumentative person engaging a moron in debate. It will be like watching the unstoppable force and the immovable object meet for the first time. EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Peter Raptor
Plutonian Army
93
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Posted - 2012.04.24 03:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech
It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.
Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?
If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.
That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.
P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok
Will you defend someone's "Freedom" to incite Someone else to commit suicide??
CCP upholding human decency , THUMBS UP!!
Evelopedia;-á
Amarr is a Theocracy; -á-á-áAwesome +-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6252
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:My house my rules? Yes. You accepted those rules when you made your account, when you created your character, and when you logged in.
Quote:And it doesn't matter companies are still subject to the laws of the land. GǪand the law of the land is that free speech does not apply to private entities, and certainly not to the games they run. CCP is not a government; it does not have a constitution; it's a private entity that offers you a EULA where you have exactly one right: you are free to close your account at any time.
You're also free to reject this EULA, but then you forfeit the privilege of saying things around here. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
824
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:My house my rules? Yes. You accepted those rules when you made your account, when you created your character, and when you logged in. Quote:And it doesn't matter companies are still subject to the laws of the land. GǪand the law of the land is that free speech does not apply to private entities, and certainly not to the games they run. CCP is not a government; it does not have a constitution; it's a private entity that offers you a EULA where you have exactly one right: you are free to close your account at any time. You're also free to reject this EULA, but then you forfeit the privilege of saying things around here. BA-DUM-TISH |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech
It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.
Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?
If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.
That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.
P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok Will you defend someone's "Freedom" to incite Someone else to commit suicide?? CCP upholding human decency , THUMBS UP!!
I may not agree with it, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech
It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.
Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?
If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.
That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.
P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok Will you defend someone's "Freedom" to incite Someone else to commit suicide?? CCP upholding human decency , THUMBS UP!!
In Canada, specifically Quebec teams doctors offer end of life counselling. So not exactly the same thing for certain. there is nothing really wrong with doing so if there are sufficient medical reasons.
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scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:My house my rules? Yes. You accepted those rules when you made your account, when you created your character, and when you logged in. Quote:And it doesn't matter companies are still subject to the laws of the land. GǪand the law of the land is that free speech does not apply to private entities, and certainly not to the games they run. CCP is not a government; it does not have a constitution; it's a private entity that offers you a EULA where you have exactly one right: you are free to close your account at any time. You're also free to reject this EULA, but then you forfeit the privilege of saying things around here.
CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself.
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scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:18:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech
It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.
Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?
If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.
That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.
P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok Will you defend someone's "Freedom" to incite Someone else to commit suicide?? CCP upholding human decency , THUMBS UP!! I may not agree with it, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself.
That is all that I ask.
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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Free Speech
It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.
Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?
If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.
That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.
P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok Will you defend someone's "Freedom" to incite Someone else to commit suicide?? CCP upholding human decency , THUMBS UP!! I may not agree with it, but I will defend to the death your right to make an ass of yourself. That is all that I ask.
This includes making drunken jokes about suicide. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6253
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself. Yes they can.
More to the point, though, since you missed the key part: they're not a government. Consequently, they are not governed by the law that provides you with free speech, so even if they were limited the way you wished they were, they still wouldn't be constrained by the laws in question.
Again, the only right you have around here is the right to close your account. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself. Yes they can. More to the point, though, since you missed the key part: they're not a government. Consequently, they are not governed by the law that provides you with free speech, so even if they were limited the way you wished they were, they still wouldn't be constrained by the laws in question. Again, the only right you have around here is the right to close your account.
scoot, Tippia is right. A private organization can do whatever it wants as far as free speech goes. The only thing your agreement with the EULA guarantees you is the right to close your account at any time.
Edit: CCP also has that same right. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself. Yes they can. More to the point, though, since you missed the key part: they're not a government. Consequently, they are not governed by the law that provides you with free speech, so even if they were limited the way you wished they were, they still wouldn't be constrained by the laws in question.
Tippia, no they can't. CCP can't make you sign an agreement into slavery either. (insert joke on grinding missions and mining here) They can include any sort of waiver of certain rights (as do many employers) but this isn't even the same thing and more likelly then not would even be enforceable. The point is and the one that always seems to escape you (because you are short sighted and lack common sense) is that it doesn't matter what is but what ought to be. And this is a bigger societal problem at any rate where mob mentality dictates policy which denies basic human rights. If you are arguing that because CCP is a big company they can do whatever they want, then you are clearly wrong. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:35:00 -
[54] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself. Yes they can. More to the point, though, since you missed the key part: they're not a government. Consequently, they are not governed by the law that provides you with free speech, so even if they were limited the way you wished they were, they still wouldn't be constrained by the laws in question. Tippia, no they can't. CCP can't make you sign an agreement into slavery either. (insert joke on grinding missions and mining here) They can include any sort of waiver of certain rights (as do many employers) but this isn't even the same thing and more likelly then not would even be enforceable. The point is and the one that always seems to escape you (because you are short sighted and lack common sense) is that it doesn't matter what is but what ought to be. And this is a bigger societal problem at any rate where mob mentality dictates policy which denies basic human rights. If you are arguing that because CCP is a big company they can do whatever they want, then you are clearly wrong.
They can't do whatever they want because they are a big company. But they can restrict your speech as they see fit. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself. Yes they can. More to the point, though, since you missed the key part: they're not a government. Consequently, they are not governed by the law that provides you with free speech, so even if they were limited the way you wished they were, they still wouldn't be constrained by the laws in question. Tippia, no they can't. CCP can't make you sign an agreement into slavery either. (insert joke on grinding missions and mining here) They can include any sort of waiver of certain rights (as do many employers) but this isn't even the same thing and more likelly then not would even be enforceable. The point is and the one that always seems to escape you (because you are short sighted and lack common sense) is that it doesn't matter what is but what ought to be. And this is a bigger societal problem at any rate where mob mentality dictates policy which denies basic human rights. If you are arguing that because CCP is a big company they can do whatever they want, then you are clearly wrong. They can't do whatever they want because they are a big company. But they can restrict your speech as they see fit.
Even if this were true, and this is the point, they shouldn't. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Tippia wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself. Yes they can. More to the point, though, since you missed the key part: they're not a government. Consequently, they are not governed by the law that provides you with free speech, so even if they were limited the way you wished they were, they still wouldn't be constrained by the laws in question. Tippia, no they can't. CCP can't make you sign an agreement into slavery either. (insert joke on grinding missions and mining here) They can include any sort of waiver of certain rights (as do many employers) but this isn't even the same thing and more likelly then not would even be enforceable. The point is and the one that always seems to escape you (because you are short sighted and lack common sense) is that it doesn't matter what is but what ought to be. And this is a bigger societal problem at any rate where mob mentality dictates policy which denies basic human rights. If you are arguing that because CCP is a big company they can do whatever they want, then you are clearly wrong. They can't do whatever they want because they are a big company. But they can restrict your speech as they see fit. Even if this were true, and this is the point, they shouldn't.
Well of course they (theoretically) shouldn't. But that isn't reality. They can, it is in their best interests to do so. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
It isn't in their best interests to do so. The whole point of this game and meta game is risk/reward/consequences. If you start messing around with what sort of meta gaming you are allowed to do then you are going to change this game to the point where it isn't enjoyable.
Further you are setting precedents for what types of intervention will be consider acceptable. It is a slippery slope that should be avoided altogether. |
Ai Shun
726
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
scooter Kondur wrote:Tippia, no they can't. CCP can't make you sign an agreement into slavery either.
No, they can't. You can however offer the agreement. It is up to you to sign it or not sign it. Of course, for such a hyperbolic, ludicrous example you'd expect they'd never be able to enforce it; but for simple matters requiring a code of conduct that you are expected to obey? Of course they can. It is your choice and your right to accept their rules.
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1717
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Karadion wrote:You're what's wrong with eve. Give me your stuff and biomass yourself so we can finally fix Eve. Not empty quoting. CCP ban this ******* scooter guy from the forums already. Actually, this type of attitude is a perfect example of the major problem affecting these forums and the game itself. Immediately jumping on any and every chance to post personal attacks and troll threads with sarcastic remarks intended to demean, berate and intentionally incite a flame war to derail the thread, eventually forcing the thread to be locked and the topic to be re-posted again.
This type of behavior has been out of control now for quite a while. It is consequently affecting the game, both in terms of getting prospective new players to subscribe as well as driving existing players away from the game. Within the past 4 years I've watched this type of behavior become increasingly more prevalent, basically turning into the 'Modus Operandi' for the forums and in-game.
The major party responsible for this is CCP, plain and simple. CCP's lack of moderator presence and lack of forum activity has incited and encouraged this problem to grow. The various erratic bursts of CCP enforcing Forum rules and at times appearing to conduct biased selective moderation only incites and encourages rage from both sides of the fence.
The Eve Forums were originally intended to be a productive helpful resource for the Eve Community to gain and share information as well as be a platform for the exchange of ideas, all to be conducted in a friendly manner. In order to maintain this standard, users need to read and abide by the conditions listed in the Forum Rules. By participating in the forums, users are confirming they will comply by those rules.
CCP has a long hard road to travel trying to turn these forums back into what they were originally intended. As such all users can help CCP achieve that objective simply by complying with the Forum Rules, using the Report Option (flag icon next to time stamp in header of posted reply) for noncompliance replies and lastly, File Complaint on any discrepancy or suspected inappropriate actions of moderators.
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scooter Kondur
Pyramid Celestial
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 03:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:scooter Kondur wrote:Tippia, no they can't. CCP can't make you sign an agreement into slavery either. No, they can't. You can however offer the agreement. It is up to you to sign it or not sign it. Of course, for such a hyperbolic, ludicrous example you'd expect they'd never be able to enforce it; but for simple matters requiring a code of conduct that you are expected to obey? Of course they can. It is your choice and your right to accept their rules. scooter Kondur wrote:It isn't in their best interests to do so. The whole point of this game and meta game is risk/reward/consequences. If you start messing around with what sort of meta gaming you are allowed to do then you are going to change this game to the point where it isn't enjoyable. How can you say this with a straight face when you want(ed) all the Goons banned from the game?
As always it doesn't matter how serious or not you are being the points that are trying to be made always get lost no matter how many times they are spelled out nut I will try again.
Do I honestly care about goons, no never. Do I care about Jita burning? No why would I it is a game. Do I think the group on the whole are absolutely unimpressive and uninspired, yes. does it matter what I think on that matter - no matter what side I am on, no.
Point is the infringement of free speech because a bunch of cry babies don't like the way you are playing the game, who go so far as to your removal of it is not cool. As a blunt analogy, you are murdered for your views on religion in some country some place. Same thing, period. CCP should not be bowing down to the masses not just because it is will change the game but it has the potential to destroy it.
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