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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.17 12:29:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Tanhar
Originally by: Nova Fox
Drop down menus for the ranges on the scanner menu please.
They are there already.
No they are right click, theres a difference between drop down and right click =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 12:35:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Ffreyn Moonflower Recon / ship scanning now seems completely impractical:
1) All you get is a list that says 'ship', even in a quiet system you need some clue to which targets you should even be looking to chase down. This is also not being narrowed down until you are almost on the ship, by which point it is just far too late. (It also makes no sense given that the direction scanner gives you far more information with less effort.)
just use the filters correct. set the filter to BattleShips only if you look for BS... or set them for BC's... set it to whatever you are looking for.
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DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 12:46:00 -
[93]
Edited by: DeepBlue on 17/02/2009 12:49:58
Originally by: Tuberider
Originally by: DeepBlue
Originally by: Miss Moonwych
0.10% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes) 0.05% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes) 0.03% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes)
had a 0.02% sig today, ill try to determine which site this is. its inside a cosmos constellation in 0.0 (booster stuff). im pretty sure its the radar plex, where you get the booster bpc's and stuff.
to be sure ill have to scan all the other plexes in this complex, wich will be done today.
digital plexus ? has the name changed ? should be a biatch too find atm keep us posted
finished the constellation, here the results for a cosmos booster constellation:
Quote:
Cosmos Constellation: 09-4XW (Tenal)
i1-be8 - 0.10 i1-be8 - 0.05
zj-q00 - 0.39 - Cosmic Sig - Radiance - Drone Plex zj-q00 - 0.39 - Cosmic Sig - HackBase 1 zj-q00 - 0.20 - Wormhole - x702 - WH Space
ZXA-V6 - 0.10
ZH3-BS - 0.20 - Wormhole - - Empire
1QH-0K - 0.78 - Cosmic Sig - Gurista Base 1QH-0K - 0.10 1QH-0K - 0.10 1QH-0K - 0.03
W80-19 - 0.39 - Cosmic Sig - ArcSal - Pristine Guristas Pod Cluster W80-19 - 0.02
the 0.02% Signature must be the Digial Plexus (Radar) the 0.03% Signature should be the Magnetometric Site (Mag Cosmos Plex)
This Constellation ALLWAYS has 1 Radar and 1 Mag Complex in it.
the .05% Sig prolly is a base 4 site, i havent been able to find base 3&4 yet. wich leads to the conclusion: Base 4: 0.05 Sigs Base 3: 0.10 Sigs
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Hoshi
Eviction.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 12:52:00 -
[94]
Originally by: DeepBlue
just use the filters correct. set the filter to BattleShips only if you look for BS... or set them for BC's... set it to whatever you are looking for.
You can even change filters several times without rescanning and it will still update the list.
So you can have a all ship filter, scan with that, then switch to a bs filter to see how many of the results where BS and then switch to the titan filter etc. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:19:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
1) It's all or nothing
You either have the skills/equipment to find stuff, or you CANNOT find it, no matter how much time/effort you devote. This may cut a lot of people from a lot of content. Morevoer it is particularly annoying when you think of wormholes. First you give us a core scanner that can be fit without much penalty on any ship, basically in order to be able to find wormholes without a covop, then I find out I cannot find most wormholes anyway because I am not receiving the covop bonuses. Doesn't seem very logical to me.
I'd agree here. Wormholes need to be straight forward to find and not something that requires a specialist ship, or uber skills.
The reason I think this, is that WH and W-Space are the 'hook' that will encourage players into exploration in a general sense and equally entice players out of high security space and into the wilderness.
If CCP believes that players will wait until their cov op buddy logs on, then gang up and go exploring they're mistaken. Much of the value of W-Space will be realised not by groups of players, but solo explorers. If others see these trail blazers head out into the unknown - and reap profits in doing so - they will likely follow this behaviour.
This in turn will mean that T3 ships reach affordable levels, and as a by product, may encourage players to become accustomed to PVP (vs AI NPCs initially) and interaction with .0 and low sec space.
tl;dr - Wormholes need to be found very easily - perhaps as easily as anomaly sites, across EVE.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Pipboy2K
Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:31:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Space Wanderer
1) It's all or nothing
You either have the skills/equipment to find stuff, or you CANNOT find it, no matter how much time/effort you devote. This may cut a lot of people from a lot of content. Morevoer it is particularly annoying when you think of wormholes. First you give us a core scanner that can be fit without much penalty on any ship, basically in order to be able to find wormholes without a covop, then I find out I cannot find most wormholes anyway because I am not receiving the covop bonuses. Doesn't seem very logical to me.
I'd agree here. Wormholes need to be straight forward to find and not something that requires a specialist ship, or uber skills.
The reason I think this, is that WH and W-Space are the 'hook' that will encourage players into exploration in a general sense and equally entice players out of high security space and into the wilderness.
If CCP believes that players will wait until their cov op buddy logs on, then gang up and go exploring they're mistaken. Much of the value of W-Space will be realised not by groups of players, but solo explorers. If others see these trail blazers head out into the unknown - and reap profits in doing so - they will likely follow this behaviour.
This in turn will mean that T3 ships reach affordable levels, and as a by product, may encourage players to become accustomed to PVP (vs AI NPCs initially) and interaction with .0 and low sec space.
tl;dr - Wormholes need to be found very easily - perhaps as easily as anomaly sites, across EVE.
C.
i tried to figure out a way how to solve that problem with the wormholes, but didnt think about a simple solution like that one... i have to say, i like it. thumbs up!! War, war never changes |
DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:33:00 -
[97]
Edited by: DeepBlue on 17/02/2009 13:37:05 Edited by: DeepBlue on 17/02/2009 13:34:24
Originally by: Pipboy2K
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Space Wanderer
1) It's all or nothing
You either have the skills/equipment to find stuff, or you CANNOT find it, no matter how much time/effort you devote. This may cut a lot of people from a lot of content. Morevoer it is particularly annoying when you think of wormholes. First you give us a core scanner that can be fit without much penalty on any ship, basically in order to be able to find wormholes without a covop, then I find out I cannot find most wormholes anyway because I am not receiving the covop bonuses. Doesn't seem very logical to me.
I'd agree here. Wormholes need to be straight forward to find and not something that requires a specialist ship, or uber skills.
The reason I think this, is that WH and W-Space are the 'hook' that will encourage players into exploration in a general sense and equally entice players out of high security space and into the wilderness.
If CCP believes that players will wait until their cov op buddy logs on, then gang up and go exploring they're mistaken. Much of the value of W-Space will be realised not by groups of players, but solo explorers. If others see these trail blazers head out into the unknown - and reap profits in doing so - they will likely follow this behaviour.
This in turn will mean that T3 ships reach affordable levels, and as a by product, may encourage players to become accustomed to PVP (vs AI NPCs initially) and interaction with .0 and low sec space.
tl;dr - Wormholes need to be found very easily - perhaps as easily as anomaly sites, across EVE.
C.
i tried to figure out a way how to solve that problem with the wormholes, but didnt think about a simple solution like that one... i have to say, i like it. thumbs up!!
i dont get it.
you guys screamed around when it was luck based.. and now its finally skill based and thats also not good....
as it was luck based EVERYONE had the chance to find a 10/10 (or another top rewarding plex). now you dont, skill up or forget about the good plexes.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:40:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
The only reason people already trained astrometrics to 5 is to use long range probes. Why mess with this dynamic when there is a perfectly reasonable way to multispec the system without using deep space probes? Just because you have to use 3 probes instead of 1?
Quite. Or let's put it this way: there needs to be some benefit to having Astrometrics V trained up (as opposed to lvl 3 or 4). A lot of people have trained V in order to use the best-ranged probes, and if that is removed... well, a lvl5 skill that now does nothing will not make people happy.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:45:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cailais
tl;dr - Wormholes need to be found very easily - perhaps as easily as anomaly sites, across EVE.
I don't really agree. Having them be fairly hard to find would give a real "profession" to exploration/scanning -oriented characters. I don't want them to absolutely require top skills (that would be stupid), but neither would I like them to be trivially findable.
If you don't have the skills to find them in your corp... hire someone who does.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:50:00 -
[100]
First off: Awesome idea to collapse the thread, was getting a bit messy.
On UI: You are right on the money regarding the Homeworld UI, it was/is very much (X,Y)+Z in the campaigns, not as pronounced in multiplayer though. The huge difference was the camera control being part of the system, you drag to 'near' target in one plane -> rotate camera -> drag to target in third plane and kill, kill, kill!!!!!111.
On SiSi, we lack the ability to centre camera on the point of interest, namely a probe hit. This means that you have to first move three probes watching from a skewed angle and hope you get a hit, then you can focus on a probe and continue moving the rest in better positions around the hit.
On other: 1. What are you balancing the signal strengths after? Sounds to me like you are restricting the sites with smallest signatures to maxed skilled players using rigged covops.
2. Will the FW major sites require probes to find or will their signatures still be 'large' enough to find with on-board scanner (some majors already require 5-10 on-board scans to find)?
3. Will we get the ability to differentiate between sites (Gravimetric, Radar etc.) or do you expect the community to make a baseline-sig-strength list similar to what was being done in old thread?
4. Couldn't you just make the scanning array count as a 4th probe with very high strength, thus giving an advantage to defensive probers (would need just 3 more for warp-to)?
Sounds like you are on top of things at any rate, good news for us all. Now lets see how long before this thread needs to be collapsed
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Cheekything
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:58:00 -
[101]
>.< Wait so wormholes actually come up as worm holes .... i've just wasted hours fiddling around scanning down like 3 plexes and getting annoyed I can't find a wormhole .
However I think that an easier way to control the probes would be to use the arrow keys for X,Y and scroll for Z and maybe 1-0 to select probes while on the scan menu :3
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.17 13:59:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 14:01:26
Originally by: Cailais tl;dr - Wormholes need to be found very easily - perhaps as easily as anomaly sites, across EVE.
Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. As you said wormholes are the hook to introduce people to the new scan system. They just have to be POSSIBLE to be found, but I see no need to make them so easy that they can be found just with the onboard scanner.
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Hoshi
Eviction.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 14:04:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
The only reason people already trained astrometrics to 5 is to use long range probes.
Actually back when I trained Astrometrics 5 it was to reduce scan time. This isn't the first time the scan system has changed you know. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.17 14:11:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Space Wanderer
The only reason people already trained astrometrics to 5 is to use long range probes.
Actually back when I trained Astrometrics 5 it was to reduce scan time. This isn't the first time the scan system has changed you know.
I know, but my account was closed at that time, so I don't know the specifics of the old old system, except some old guide I bumped into. :-)
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.17 14:19:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Cailais
tl;dr - Wormholes need to be found very easily - perhaps as easily as anomaly sites, across EVE.
I don't really agree. Having them be fairly hard to find would give a real "profession" to exploration/scanning -oriented characters. I don't want them to absolutely require top skills (that would be stupid), but neither would I like them to be trivially findable.
If you don't have the skills to find them in your corp... hire someone who does.
Note I said 'perhaps' as easily as anomaly site - i.e they can be found with a relative degree of ease using a core probe.
Exploration is actually quite scalable - so you might be able to find a WH pretty easily, maybe even find a few sites within W-Space but finding the 'good stuff' would require a more specialised pilot.
Requiring a Cov Op Frigate + high skills is (imho) bordering on the 'too difficult' end of the spectrum.
Requiring use of the onboard scanner (with no skills) too easy.
The solution should exist somewhere in between.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.02.17 14:48:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 17/02/2009 14:48:03 One more thing that needs to be considered: wormholes from inside WH-Space should be easier to find, at least when they lead back to K-Space. Otherwise picture these scenarios:
"Bah, the enemy fleet followed us into WH-Space and even though we beat them they collapsed the WH. Hey Cov-Ops guy, find us a way back!"
Two hours later:
"Where's our way back, pal?" "Sorry, I have this 0.0000000000343% sig that I am trying to nail down, but, well, it might take a bit longer."
Alternatively:
"Welcome to WH-Space! Oops, our supply Orca pilot just had his PC explode. We all have to log out here and wait until he gets a new one because he will not be able to probe for a WH exit for himself."
Or:
"Welcome to WH-Space! Sadly our CovOps pilot had his PC explode so now all of our fleet is stuck in this system until he can get a new one. Too bad the system is totally empty."
If there is no "easy way out" of WH space out of game events might cause problems - I can live with danger and the need to travel further and further into WH-Space (I am actually quite thrilled by that idea) but making WHs hard to scan down might cause a lot of people suffer boring times in case shyte happens - and it will according to Mr. Murphy.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:23:00 -
[107]
15cpu exploration launcher that any ship can fit along with i'll guess level 3~4 probe skills will be the answer to your getting stuck in w-space question.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:27:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
If there is no "easy way out" of WH space out of game events might cause problems - I can live with danger and the need to travel further and further into WH-Space (I am actually quite thrilled by that idea) but making WHs hard to scan down might cause a lot of people suffer boring times in case shyte happens - and it will according to Mr. Murphy.
Self destruct is your friend.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:31:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 15:34:23 Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 15:31:45
Originally by: Zeba 15cpu exploration launcher that any ship can fit along with i'll guess level 3~4 probe skills will be the answer to your getting stuck in w-space question.
Not correct. Without covop bonuses, you are not able to scan some signatures. If the exit wormhole is in that subset, you are effectively trapped, EVEN if you have a core launcher.
That's why I like so much Miss Moonwych suggestion. You have no covop? No worry, you can still scan that wormhole out. Just relax and go for a 10 min scan time, if you really want to get out.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:37:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Space Wanderer Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 15:34:23 Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 15:31:45
Originally by: Zeba 15cpu exploration launcher that any ship can fit along with i'll guess level 3~4 probe skills will be the answer to your getting stuck in w-space question.
Not correct. Without covop bonuses, you are not able to scan some signatures. If the exit wormhole is in that subset, you are effectively trapped, EVEN if you have a core launcher.
That's why I like so much Miss Moonwych suggestion. You have no covop? No worry, you can still scan that wormhole out. Just relax and go for a 10 min scan time, if you really want to get out.
If you'd scanned a wormhole out, you'd realize that it is perfectly fine to scan them out quickly without said bonus.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Rosur
Gallente Infestation.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:42:00 -
[111]
did some scanning last night and found a drone site also didnt give a name for it, which had unstable wormholes in. These for anything? Or just decoration as they where large colidable structures.
Please resize your sig to less than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:48:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Nova Fox Edited by: Nova Fox on 17/02/2009 11:36:41 If you're not going to use the homeworld system (even if its just a click to move, drag to reposition x/y, click to establish x/y, drag to reposition z, click finish, no shift key required) at least barrow the telemetry indicator (a 2d ghost ring where the probe would be on an x/y plane if z was zero) This would reduce the later readjustment of x and y again once the desired z is supposivly acheived and possible prevent me from reangleing my camera in 3 viewpoints to make sure its in the area I want it in.
Actually, there is sort of a "ghost ring" display already. Active probes cast a shadow on the plane of the ecliptic which can be used to help you line them up. I've been using this to get my probes into a nice tetrahedral formation.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:51:00 -
[113]
in which system are you finding those 0.10% and lower sigs ? I'd like to do some experiment on them but did not find one so far ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:00:00 -
[114]
Edited by: DeepBlue on 17/02/2009 16:01:12
Originally by: Hugh Ruka in which system are you finding those 0.10% and lower sigs ? I'd like to do some experiment on them but did not find one so far ...
all over tenal i find them, convo me on sisi and i bring you to some of them.
after more and more scanning results, i come to the following:
0.39 Base 1 and some easy plexes 0.20 Base 2 and Wormholes 0.10 Base 3 0.05 Base 4
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:05:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Space Wanderer
1) It's all or nothing
You either have the skills/equipment to find stuff, or you CANNOT find it, no matter how much time/effort you devote. This may cut a lot of people from a lot of content. Morevoer it is particularly annoying when you think of wormholes. First you give us a core scanner that can be fit without much penalty on any ship, basically in order to be able to find wormholes without a covop, then I find out I cannot find most wormholes anyway because I am not receiving the covop bonuses. Doesn't seem very logical to me.
I'd agree here. Wormholes need to be straight forward to find and not something that requires a specialist ship, or uber skills.
The reason I think this, is that WH and W-Space are the 'hook' that will encourage players into exploration in a general sense and equally entice players out of high security space and into the wilderness.
If CCP believes that players will wait until their cov op buddy logs on, then gang up and go exploring they're mistaken. Much of the value of W-Space will be realised not by groups of players, but solo explorers. If others see these trail blazers head out into the unknown - and reap profits in doing so - they will likely follow this behaviour.
This in turn will mean that T3 ships reach affordable levels, and as a by product, may encourage players to become accustomed to PVP (vs AI NPCs initially) and interaction with .0 and low sec space.
tl;dr - Wormholes need to be found very easily - perhaps as easily as anomaly sites, across EVE.
C.
I think wormholes in K-space should have some difficulty associated with finding them. This allows you to have time to exploit it before it's found by another prober. OTOH, wormholes in W-space should be easy enough to find that no one will get trapped if they have base scanning skills and the proper equipment.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:06:00 -
[116]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Space Wanderer Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 15:34:23 Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 15:31:45
Originally by: Zeba 15cpu exploration launcher that any ship can fit along with i'll guess level 3~4 probe skills will be the answer to your getting stuck in w-space question.
Not correct. Without covop bonuses, you are not able to scan some signatures. If the exit wormhole is in that subset, you are effectively trapped, EVEN if you have a core launcher.
That's why I like so much Miss Moonwych suggestion. You have no covop? No worry, you can still scan that wormhole out. Just relax and go for a 10 min scan time, if you really want to get out.
If you'd scanned a wormhole out, you'd realize that it is perfectly fine to scan them out quickly without said bonus.
I did (except that it was bugged and no wormholes could be seen). But if you had spent some time scanning around you'd realize that there are a lot of 0.10 and lower sigs which we have no idea what they really are. If there are no wormholes in that range all is fine. But if there are wormholes whose sig is that low and you end up in a system whose only exit is that WH, you are done for. As far as I know there has been no dev statement on the issue. Did I miss something?
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:09:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Space Wanderer I did (except that it was bugged and no wormholes could be seen). But if you had spent some time scanning around you'd realize that there are a lot of 0.10 and lower sigs which we have no idea what they really are. If there are no wormholes in that range all is fine. But if there are wormholes whose sig is that low and you end up in a system whose only exit is that WH, you are done for. As far as I know there has been no dev statement on the issue. Did I miss something?
No,there hasn't been a statement. However, every single wormhole that has been found so far (and this mentioned), has existed in the 0.15% - 0.25% range. With the median being 0.20%, obviously.
SO, I find it extremely unlikely that this is going to deviate unless they purposely change it.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:14:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 17/02/2009 16:15:30
Originally by: An Anarchyyt No,there hasn't been a statement. However, every single wormhole that has been found so far (and this mentioned), has existed in the 0.15% - 0.25% range.
Not correct. Check Miss Moonwych list, they go at least up to 0.40%. Besides, since 0.15% is the lowest signal now findable, what's the reasoning that tells you that other wormholes are not at 0.10 and lower?
You are purposefully excluding the existance of 0.10 and lower signtures in your logic, instead of considering them unknown quantities.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:16:00 -
[119]
So then even so, if they go all the way up to 40, that makes it even more unlikely that they will go down that far.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:24:00 -
[120]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt So then even so, if they go all the way up to 40, that makes it even more unlikely that they will go down that far.
Are you serious? "That far" is just continuing the trend..
0.40 0.26 0.20 0.15 but 0.10 is illogic....
Oh well, it takes all kinds I suppose. Anyway greyscale knows, and hopefully will read the thread and consider the issue. That's only that really matters. But sure you have a strange concept of logic... :-)
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