Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 33 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
KhanSingh
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 04:36:00 -
[181]
Downloaded the latest patch. Scanning seems to be broken completely now. No visual clues as to any hits. When you deactivate probe, seems to go back to original position and when reactivated, they are stacked on top of each other. You can't click on results to get highlighted area. Scanning just for sigs but get anomaly also which clutter up results.Time to log for the night. Hope there are some useful posts tomorrow.
|
Creat Posudol
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 05:07:00 -
[182]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Xelios I see your point, but right now in EVE we have a system that's X+Y+Z, and due to the way the camera works moving a probe to a new location usually means you adjust the X, adjust the Y, adjust the Z, adjust the X again because it's still off, adjust the Y again because the X adjustment impacted Y and Z and so on. All the while having to move the camera angle around between adjustments. I like the fact that you can move any probe without first having to select it, but there's an awful lot of tweaking involved to get the position right, and it makes the whole system seem tedious.
With the Homeworld system you can adjust X and Y at the same time, then adjust the Z and with the help of the Z axis lines (like the current tactical overlay has) those 3 adjustments are usually enough to get the location you want regardless of the camera angle.
Ideally both systems would be combined into something new, because I can see that having to select a probe and use movement keys could be annoying when you're working with 4 of them.
The simplest solution I can see is to have something similar in concept to the current control, where x+y is a donut and z is arrows coming out of the middle. That lets you do plane + Z really easily without any modifier keys. This only exists in my head right now though, so don't hold your breath over it
Oh no, please no! that's a combination of the bad properties of both methods, not of the good ones! Also it's already possible to do the movement in [x+y] and z by grabbing the top/bottom surface of the box for x+y and an up/down arrow for Z. The problem is that you have to grab something (different) to switch. This is usualy how I place my probes at the moment, btw... What is good about the Homeworld-system is that you don't have to micro-manage your cursor: You don't have to let go of the probe you're dragging to switch from x+y to z (and back). So I'd see the modifier key as a clear upside, not as a bad thing (why do you hate modifier keys anyway?). Example: You drag the probe to a found signature or planet/whatever, you then notice that it's quite a bit below it and just press shift in addition to move it to the right height, let shift go again to fine-tune x+y placement. Repeat for the other probes. This is much easier/better than having to let go of the top surface, grabbing the up-arrow and then the surface again don't you agree? It allow a complete 3D-movement with one action instead of many.
So here's my simple suggestion on how this could be crafted into the existing system, but however this is accomplished I would keep the single-axis-movement arrows, since they are not in the way and quite helpful for fine-tuning the placement later on. Also I don't think this current system is bad in every way (especially with the overhauled size of the box the probes stay moveable even zoomed out and such), just more work-intensive. So: Just give us an option (or even better a shotcut key for easy toggle when needed) to swtich from the current system to the homeworld system. To visualize the currently used system one could replace the solid box with a solid sphere for the HW-System (since it no longer matters where you grab it).
|
Lyyraia
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 05:12:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Lyyraia on 18/02/2009 05:12:33 I realy like, that the "Moving-the-probe-cubewitharrows" now always keeps the same size if u zoom around, which made it alot more comfortable & easier to move the probs... its a realy nice change!! :)
The other stuff.... i'm still shocked that my alt lost 10mio sp... Will have a look tomorrw...
- Lyy
|
Boby Cola
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 05:15:00 -
[184]
Greyscale, you are my new favorite Dev, you ROCK!!!!
what about a Sister Core Launcher I ?
|
Sevani
H A V O C Minor Threat.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 05:28:00 -
[185]
I find this whole discussion of UI design elements for manipulating objects in a 3D space really odd. Please CCP walk across the hall to the guys doing all your beautiful modeling and ask them. This has been solved years ago. Fire up Maya, SoftImage, or 3D Studio and you will see what methods have proven to be excellent for placing objects in a 3D space. People who use the above mentioned software can quickly and accurately place objects with an infinite amount of precision. They do this all day long for weeks on end.
Why re-invent the wheel?
--7
|
Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 05:36:00 -
[186]
I just did a quick log on after patching and played with the latest probing system.
Things I like in the new patch:
1) The probe cursor scales with zoom level. 2) Sister's probe gets a 5% strength bonus 3) Probe launcher cycles faster
Things I don't like:
1) can't move probes = can't scan 2) graphical range display of hit with one probe is gone 3) The probe spheres are blocking the view when multiple probes are active and overlap 4) The scan filter is broken. All types of hits show up when I only have signatures selected. 5) Deep space probe gives inconsistent results. It appears it can no longer be used for a quick scan of the system for sigs
All in all, this appears to be a step backward. Things that were working before are now broken.
|
Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 05:54:00 -
[187]
A few initial points:
- Pfff. I got dizzy/sick from the spinning of the probe animation. Please turn that off ccp. And putting multiple probes (that intersect) creates a super brightness effect (pure wite at some point). - Widgets now scale with the zoom. Good. - Moving/warping the probes isn't possible. - Scanning is still possible but only the old fashioned way: warping to different spots and placing probes there. You can still create warpable hits that way, but its not practical of course when for example you want to find something off plane. I assume this will be fixed soon. - No visual sign of hits. No red circles or dots. - Skills now work. Signature strength of 0.03% has now become 0.11% for me (still no implants, no sister, no rigs etc). A 0.10% in same system has become 0.22% and 0.78% has become 1.74% (so just my skills do ~2.2x atm). But it looks like signature size of 0.03% might have changed/"fixed" to make it scannable. Scanning time has also become a little longer. - Scan filter doesn't work anymore (it did for me)
Regards,
M.M.
|
Barls Babe
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 06:05:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Barls Babe on 18/02/2009 06:07:36 An absolutely awful update... everything the guys above me said.
awful
Hooray we cant fkn scan
|
Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 06:09:00 -
[189]
On closer examination, it appears that the system map is majorly borked.
1) ship location is locked to the center of the map. When you warp to a planet "you are here" doesn't move. 2) probes don't display where they are dropped. 3) probe hits don't display at all
Other stuff:
1) no sound 2) ship doesn't display when in space 3) fitting screen is movable now, but picture of the ship in the center doesn't move with it. 4) still can't scoop probes
I guess I'll just have to wait for the next build to continue my testing.
|
keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 12:46:00 -
[190]
Edited by: keepiru on 18/02/2009 12:52:35
- Sisters Core Probe Launcher is missing the 5% scan strength bonus. BR 70778
... and I really think they should boost T2 plate HP.
|
|
Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 12:48:00 -
[191]
Does anybody have a bookmark of a wormhole he found just before the latest patch?
If so please check if its still there and if its jumpable now.
M.M.
|
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:22:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 18/02/2009 13:24:45
Originally by: Miss Moonwych @Space Wanderer: it seems your analysis is in agreement with my own experience so far. looks like a good basis for further testing in order to find the exact formula.
I think so. If I had to say what's my confidence on the different steps I would say:
- Scan strength of single probes: 95/100%. This formula seems to be very close to the old one, and agreed upon by various people, not much to say about it.
- Scan strength of a single couple of probes: about 90%. I have been pretty thorough on that, moving the probes at different angles. The only potential issue is that I had to do that by eye, so there might be some deviation (for instance I might have mistaken 25 or 35 degrees for 30). Also another source of uncertainty might be the estimation of the multiplicative factor, since the number I gave are to be taken inside the error boundaries due to both eye placements and approximations. I think that 0.5 is pretty accurate (would make sense such a nice rounded number for lower bound), while of course the 0.822 is only an estimate which might differ of some millesimal or centesimal. Ii is also interesting to note that sin(30) is actually 0.5 (though of course sin(90) is 1, so I don't know whether the sin function is actually involved in the formula).
- Probes couples chosen to be averaged: 50% top. Since I did the experiments using three probes (three couples) I observed that they were all averaged. But dunno if the same applies to four probes.
|
TaX DoDger
Caldari Digital assassins
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:43:00 -
[193]
good points 1. New scanning gfx look amazing and add usability 2. arrows are ace much better to use
Bad Points 1. cant move probes only sphere 2. still an unusable button on scanning window 3. still cant recover probes 4. probe positions reset upon launching a new probe (possably due to 1. as they have not realy moved) 5. when i have managed to scan something old school if more than one probe picks it up it appears that each probe gives its own reading not combined.
lots of stuff fixed tho in my opinion sadly it's broken lol
/me wants to sign up to the grayscale fanclub
|
Paranovus
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:46:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Miss Moonwych Does anybody have a bookmark of a wormhole he found just before the latest patch?
If so please check if its still there and if its jumpable now.
M.M.
My wormhole disappeared across the patch. It was only a short-life one though, according to the description.
In addition to the other bugs reported for this patch, I can't leave the map-view once I enter it, and entering it makes the loading bar flash full/empty until I press escape.
|
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:09:00 -
[195]
Sisters launcher (launchers?) getting a +5% strength bonus: win
I'd echo the concerns some people had about the Virtue set, though... looking at the numbers, they do seem to give very minimal benefit in the new system, especially looking at the high cost of the things. Maybe a (small) boost there would be in order?
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:10:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/02/2009 14:13:00 Do results deviate? Or still the "dot" is always centered on site? At work, cant check.
Also for some number-crunchers out there. How does 5% scan bonus on sister launcher cover into being able to find harder sites with larger radius probes.
Tho im still not sure. If results dont deviate then there is no point in using any other probe range than 0,25au.
|
Paranovus
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:12:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Do results deviate? Or still the "dot" is always centered on site? At work, cant check.
As far as I can work out, scanning is practically impossible in the new patch due to reasons mentioned above. The dots don't appear at all anymore.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:15:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Paranovus
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Do results deviate? Or still the "dot" is always centered on site? At work, cant check.
As far as I can work out, scanning is practically impossible in the new patch due to reasons mentioned above. The dots don't appear at all anymore.
Hm? Interface bug or "working as intended"?
The "proper" way to add deviation would be almost same as in old system:
show "dot" and distance of "real" site from dot. So it would certainly need one more column in results: deviation.
|
Paranovus
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:25:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Paranovus
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Do results deviate? Or still the "dot" is always centered on site? At work, cant check.
As far as I can work out, scanning is practically impossible in the new patch due to reasons mentioned above. The dots don't appear at all anymore.
Hm? Interface bug or "working as intended"?
I think it's broken. Probes don't warp anymore, the new gfx has overlap-issues (ie, two+ overlapping spheres aren't transparent enough to see through), scan results don't seem to work together properly, etc.
|
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:32:00 -
[200]
I guess I'll shelve the scan testing for the moment. Considering the graphics and mechanics issues, it looks like it's become something too masochistic for the moment.
At least I assume that the unwarpable probes are a bug. If not, and the warp has been removed on purpose, I hope greyscale will let us know.
|
|
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 15:02:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Marlenus What about the T1 Astrometrics frigates?
...
With the duration bonus on covops changing to a scan strength bonus, the Heron and its sisters should get the same bonus at half the strength, just as they have now.
...
Greyscale, you're probably way ahead of me...
And, he was! Heron has scan strength bonus in this patch. Excellent. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 15:23:00 -
[202]
before everybody looks it up himself:
atro frig: +5% stregth/lvl cov ops: +10%strength/lvl
gravity rig I (200cal) : +10% gravity rig II (300cal...): +15%
expanded launcher: 220tf / 2sec ROF sisters expanded launcher: 210tf / 1sec ROF / +5% strength
core launcher: 15tf / 2sec ROF sisters core launcher: 10tf / 1sec ROF / no strength bonus (in showinfo anyways)
combat scanner probe: 20 base strength sister combat scanner probe: 22 base strength (1800lp, 1.8mil isk, batch of 10)
core scanner probe: 40 base strength sister core scanner probe: 44 base stregnth (same LP blah)
deep space scanner probe: 5 base strength / 10x warp sisters deep space scanner probe: says 5, but presumably 5.5 base strength / 15x warp
(what... i'll buy them once they're recoverable... ^^)
PPF imps: -2 / -6 / -10% deviation PPG imps: -2 / -6 / -10% duration PPH imps: +2 / +6 / +10% strength - putting the gist back into logistics |
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 15:28:00 -
[203]
I don't know which changes were in 79298 and which were in 80418 because I never successfully patched to 79298, but despite the current borkedness of scanning I've got some positive feedback on the aesthetics.
1) The scanner window is much more attractive now, and seems to auto-resize its interior windows properly as you launch more probes so they aren't hidden.
2) I really LOVE the appearance of the new sphere-of-influence globe around the probes, with the meridian lines that rotate. That's visually awesome. It's especially cool when your camera is inside one such globe. Downside: as many have pointed out, the spheres are a bit bright when viewed from outside and become opaque when they overlap; some brightness tweaking would be nice.
3) The arrow and cube widget is much better behaved now, size-wise. It seems to have lost some attractiveness textures that it used to have, though; it's now pretty much pure white rather than metallic. (Strike that -- with HDR and bloom turned off, it's back to what it used to look like, texture-wise. Maybe you could lower its virtual albedo a smidge?)
Next iteration is gonna rock!
------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Tor Anasa
Caldari K.T.P
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 16:28:00 -
[204]
i logged in for about 20mins to see if anything had improved instead i found:
1) ship didn't display in space 2) all the probes reset to start position everytime you launched a new probe 3) widgets didn't resize with scan range sphere. This meant when the probes get to 0.25au its hard to group them 4) The probe icon wasn't visible. Means i wasn't able to re-centre the map when moving the probes and coupled with the above bug made it very hard to know what was where. 5) New Gfx look nice (scan range sphere) however after adding a couple of overlapping probes you are unable to see anything else within the probe scan range spheres (transparency needs improved). 6) scan filter didn't seem to work - with a consmic signiture filter applied i still got both cosmic signiture and cosmic anomoly. This might be something to do with them both starting with the word cosmic however it worked before.
|
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 16:47:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Reatu Krentor on 18/02/2009 16:48:09 I understand you don't want to have a modifier key, but have you considered simplifying the widget to only have an XY-plane and a Z-axis to move? Why do users absolutely need the other controls? To me it only adds unnecessary complexity to the widget which isn't necessary in 99-99.9% of the systems in eve. Besides that it only makes it harder to select the correct control to do what you want.
(edit) While you're at it, why not do the same change to the POS placement control? -- stuff -- |
Griffinator
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:20:00 -
[206]
errr... wtf have you guys done
1. can't recall probes 2. ship doesnt show up 3. probe poss signal doesnt show up 4. hard to group probes @ .25 au 5 i like the sphere thats good but make it clear with a outline like bubble on jump range on a carrier would look better and easier to use. won't get stuck trying to figure out which probe is which then 6. can't see shich probe is which plus the probes go back toghter when you launch a new one.
in short take it back and then add some implements first please
|
Ikar Kaltin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:22:00 -
[207]
Is the Astrometrics bug back? Logged in to try some more probing again, changed probes for long range scans and got told I cant do this as I dont have astrometrics 5.
|
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:27:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Marlenus on 18/02/2009 17:30:42
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin Is the Astrometrics bug back? Logged in to try some more probing again, changed probes for long range scans and got told I cant do this as I dont have astrometrics 5.
That's not a bug but it may change -- the Deep Space probes had their skill requirement put at Astro V because they are the analogs of the old Observator Probes, which also required Astro V as a prerequisite.
Info source: Post 8 in this thread ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:31:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Marlenus
2) I really LOVE the appearance of the new sphere-of-influence globe around the probes, with the meridian lines that rotate. That's visually awesome. It's especially cool when your camera is inside one such globe. Downside: as many have pointed out, the spheres are a bit bright when viewed from outside and become opaque when they overlap; some brightness tweaking would be nice.
Agreed, its a bit of an 'aaarg! my eyeees!' moment, and very hard to see what results youve found in relation to the probe position (which is pretty critical really. This is most apparent when one, or more, probes overlap or a stacked ontop of each other (to the point where you can actually 'see' the widget and have to guess its location.
Widget wise we seem to have gone from the laughably large, to the absurdly small. Need to find a happy medium here, or at least make the widget size scalable to a degree.
C.
PS - the pilgrim is using the tempest model for the armor rep graphic - actually there's loads of graphical bugs, if I get time tonight Ill submit some reports for those but in short using a Nvidia 6600 (driver fully up to date) there are no nos, AB, or really any other effects showing (and yes, Ive got them turned on.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
|
Xelios
Minmatar Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:33:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor Edited by: Reatu Krentor on 18/02/2009 16:48:09 I understand you don't want to have a modifier key, but have you considered simplifying the widget to only have an XY-plane and a Z-axis to move? Why do users absolutely need the other controls?
This plus Z-axis lines on the system map would make the probe movement system at least 9000 times better.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 33 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |