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Queen Cold
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Posted - 2009.02.17 17:30:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Queen Cold on 17/02/2009 17:32:04 Hi, I'm pretty new but thinking about training for recons, and drop ships bigger than the cruiser class.
I thought that if I train recon to lvl 5 I might as well get another cruiser skill to lvl 5 too, to increase my recon possibilites. Which cruiser skills should I get to lvl 5? Everyone is talking about the falcon so much I'm almost tired of it before I've ever tried it. But I suppose it's great in small-med gangs. Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about
If someone would like to discuss the pros and cons of the different recons it would be great. I saw another falcon thread, but it was about how to counter falcons. I felt this was a little bit of that subject, so I made a new...
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ebonyivory
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Posted - 2009.02.17 17:39:00 -
[2]
falcon
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 17/02/2009 18:05:57 Arazu -
With the right fittings you can fast lock and tackle someone 40km from you - they are dead sexy. I think they're a fine PVP ship that you can use solo.
They could also be used as an anti-ewar and anti-sniper ship with remote sensor damps.
I just find them overall to be a fantastic ship and am training now for them since the changes in QR.
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Kari Savage
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:05:00 -
[4]
Falcon.
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Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:06:00 -
[5]
falcon, anyone saying otherwise needs their heads looked at ;) BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz |
Queen Cold
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Spurty falcon, anyone saying otherwise needs their heads looked at ;)
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Saaya Illirie
Caldari Core Element Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:32:00 -
[7]
Ugh. Curse, hands down no contest. Falcon can jam but it blows if you don't have backup and is boring to watch nothing but a timer tick down, but the Curse is the single best Solo ship in existence, EVAR. There isn't a ship in the world, except a capless drake/raven, that the Curse can't ****. The falcon is overrated, in anything larger than a small gang, if the enemy has a half-decent FC you will be the first to die, which means you need the funds to be able to replace your losses.
Plus the Curse is a very nice ratting ship between ops. The Falcon will be sitting in the garage collecting dust like a hot rod. Suffer not the insufferable to live. |
Derrios
Reikoku KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:39:00 -
[8]
His question was "Whats the best recon" not "Whats the most versatile recon".
Answer to HIS question is Falcon.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov I think they're a fine PVP ship that you can use solo.
Wut?
Originally by: Christari Zuborov ...and am training now for them since the changes in QR.
Oh that explains it. LOL
Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:59:00 -
[10]
The first rule of Falcon club is; YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT FALCON CLUB! --
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donęt forget the reach-around.
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Grimpak
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Spurty falcon, anyone saying otherwise needs their heads looked at ;)
pilgrim.
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:36:00 -
[12]
Best recon is hands down the Curse.
Then comes nothing for quite a while, and then Arazu, Rapier, Lachesis, Huginn, Pilgrim.
The Falcon/Rook are worthless for general use.
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Queen Cold
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:40:00 -
[13]
I'm not going to solo with it. Small-med sized gang or fleet battle. I just wanted to make sure I don't train a racial cruiser skill to lvl 5 and regret it. Thanks. Looks like it is Caldari, at first at least. Maybe I'll go for amarr cruiser lvl 5 if I get tired of ecm.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Queen Cold I'm not going to solo with it. Small-med sized gang or fleet battle. I just wanted to make sure I don't train a racial cruiser skill to lvl 5 and regret it. Thanks. Looks like it is Caldari, at first at least. Maybe I'll go for amarr cruiser lvl 5 if I get tired of ecm.
You won't. Assuming you've got the prereqs already for one race, Racial Cruiser V opens up so many ships, HACs, HICs, Logistics, Recons, Commandships, etc. Not to mention faction cruisers that become open to you and the bonuses you get with racial 5. I've got all 4 racial cruisers at 5 just for the bonuses to Recons (Recon V), everything else is just bonus. -------------------------- NOTR B A N A N A S |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Queen Cold talking about the falcon so much I'm almost tired of it before
Falcon is about as obvious advise as telling a newbie to get learning skills. Just be aware that:
- In medium-large / 0.0 gangs it tends to be quite boring ship - Many many people are eagerly waiting for CCP to nerf the ship, which may some day happen.
-Lasse feeling that at least Falcon alts shouldn't be that effective
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:38:00 -
[16]
Curse or pilgrim.
Rapier is fun but anything less then 2 webs and you are wasting your time.... Stop, hammer time. |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:54:00 -
[17]
Clearly we should nerf falcons. And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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4THELULZ
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:17:00 -
[18]
I'm afraid the Falcon nerf is now guaranteed, as I can fly it. CCP hate me that much.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: 4THELULZ I'm afraid the Falcon nerf is now guaranteed, as I can fly it. CCP hate me that much.
Only T2 cruisers my main can't fly are the caldari ones.
I should speed the nerf along by training for them.
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Mortis Tyrathlion
Twisted Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.18 03:11:00 -
[20]
The only way to -not- get sick of flying the Falcon in a few days is to have an alt fly it on another account, so you still get to do all the face-melting goodness as well
I've yet to fly a Curse, but I've flown against them and know them to be a huge nuisance. My personal vote would be the Arazu, though. It does depend heavily on what you want to do, but the ability to render a ship unable to escape and unable to attack you from 50k is pretty sweet -
Originally by: Arcon Telf OP, you should be honored, because this is the first time in my short Eve career I've felt the need to say this:
Azeroth is that way ------>
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Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.02.18 03:42:00 -
[21]
The truly brilliant thing with the Curse is that it reflects pilot skill quite a lot. GOOD Curse pilots are very hard to fight against, enhancing the ships fearsome reputation. BAD Curse pilots are hilarious killmails waiting to happen. It's a fine ship but nowhere NEAR as good as legend would have you believe. There are many ships that could defeat one with little trouble 1v1.
To answer the actual question, the BEST recon is undoubtedly the Falcon, since it's the most effective in its role.
Arazu's are underrated, Pilgrims require practice and patience and, unlike the other recons, actually become a poorer option the more pilots are involved. Rapier and Huginn got hit hard by the web 'rebalance' but are still decent ships if you need stuff to move slower or look bigger (both these things being really handy if you're shooting at the aforementioned stuff). Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.02.18 19:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mortis Tyrathlion The only way to -not- get sick of flying the Falcon in a few days is to have an alt fly it on another account, so you still get to do all the face-melting goodness as well
You can also fly a rather unconventional Falcon setup from time to time to break up the soul crushing monotony & self loathing that comes from flying a jamming falcon all the time. 95% of the time Rajere flies a falcon, but probably 70% of the time i'm in a falcon, I'm not in a jamming falcon at all.
Honestly I hate falcons, 200km ECM+Cov Ops cloak is hellagay and just cheap, using them to win fights belittles any sense of accomplishment from the victory. Only time I fly a jamming falcon is for gang fights where we're noticably outnumbered and/or when the opponent brings multiple falcons as well. -------------------------- NOTR B A N A N A S |
Cupdeez
Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.02.18 19:47:00 -
[23]
really depends on what you are doing. With that said the Falcon is the most over powered ship in the game..
Falcon - You can Perm-Jamm about 4-5 battleships with one but it can't kill anything alone. Arazu - can tackle just about anything but lacks DPS and Defense. Rapier - can web like a champ but webs kind of suck now Pilgrim - Very solid ship but requires you to get very close
Rook - Perm-Jams with more DPS Lachaes - Fly the Arazu Hugin - Fly the Rapier Curse - this ship just owns anything 1v1 besides a falcon who will run
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Zxenis
Caldari M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.02.18 22:40:00 -
[24]
for an Arazu to fit for tackling, do they need to fit for speed and manuverability to chase down targets? Assuming help is close behind? Currently I got the fit with the 1600mm tungsten plate. I dont chase things very well, hehe
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527) |
Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.02.18 22:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cupdeez
Curse - this ship just owns anything 1v1 besides a falcon who will run
Not these days. I can name a few ships that can dispatch a Curse in a straight fight. Cerberus being the most obvious one. Vaga's and Zealots (yes really) can also do it. As can most cap-boosted battleships packing heavy neuts.
It's still a good ship don't get me wrong, but its reputation was forged long before QR and before the nos 'nerf'. Many of the things that made is so insanely good no longer apply. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
Mortis Tyrathlion
Twisted Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 07:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zxenis
for an Arazu to fit for tackling, do they need to fit for speed and manuverability to chase down targets? Assuming help is close behind? Currently I got the fit with the 1600mm tungsten plate. I dont chase things very well, hehe
/me winces at the low slot abuse
Look at how many mids it's got, even with points and damps, it cries out for LSEs... -
Originally by: Arcon Telf OP, you should be honored, because this is the first time in my short Eve career I've felt the need to say this:
Azeroth is that way ------>
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Drufus Gallius
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 12:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Drufus Gallius on 19/02/2009 12:16:15 Permajam 4-5 battleships? Haven't been able to do that yet. I've been flying it for quite some time now in huge fleet engagements. I use racials all the way and there is NO WAY you permajam 4-5 battleships. 2 or 3 at most with 5 racials and everything lvl 5. With some luck you can put a racial on each ship and pray that the next cycle also jams them. Chances are very low that all of them will remain jammed over more then 2 cycles.
Then the first enemy falcon that jams you, an enemy inty that comes your way or yellow square you get on your overview you need to bug out...FAST!! because 1 or 2 alpha strikes from a BS put you in your pod. If that inty get's jammed his buddies will warp on him once he get's close enough and you are podded as well. That is why distance is the only defence a Falcon's got. The biggest problem for a falcon pilot once he was forced to leave the battle is finding a decent warp in to fight again. This is where I lost most of my Falcons.
For it's task, and ONLY it's task the Falcon is a pretty good ship, but it is far from uber and it can easely be countered quite effectively. Which happens to me several times in about every fleet fight. I have to constantly warp in and out. A Falcon can even be taken on solo...but since my main is a falcon pilot I'm not going to explain that lol.
I'm pretty sure that for general tactics and fighting tasks there are others that are a lot more effective. The curse is one I'll be keeping my eyes on for sure.
Although I do respect other people's opinions I wanted to clear some things up with the experiences I had engaging in combat with a falcon.
There is a tactical aspect of this game, and it is one of the things that makes it as good and attractive as it is. And it is that every ship has it's place and can be countered. You constantly need to asses your situation and decide when it is time to engage, and when it is time to disengage. So what if you are not on 40 km's and you can't constantly fight because somebody else uses tactics with certain ships to turn the tide. If you want to kill kill kill go play an FPS. No ship is uber...the tactics with which they are used make them stronger...but countering a tactic can make them as weak as an ibis in a blink of an eye.
my 2c. "Loyalty and dedication" |
Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.02.19 12:40:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 19/02/2009 12:40:42
Originally by: Stuart Price
Originally by: Cupdeez
Curse - this ship just owns anything 1v1 besides a falcon who will run
Not these days. I can name a few ships that can dispatch a Curse in a straight fight. Cerberus being the most obvious one. Vaga's and Zealots (yes really) can also do it. As can most cap-boosted battleships packing heavy neuts.
It's still a good ship don't get me wrong, but its reputation was forged long before QR and before the nos 'nerf'. Many of the things that made is so insanely good no longer apply.
If you pimp it a bit like I do (RF Disruptor), you can neut from outside heavy neut range. Cap boosting battleships in general aren't easy, but with a proper fit, you'll out last them.
And from personal experience flying a Vaga, 2 range scripts on your TDs will negate most of their DPS. If they decide to get close, tracking scripts will utterly destroy it. The problem is that the Vagabond, much like the Curse, can usually disengage if things get out of hand. Most fights in this situation will result in no loss for either side.
Zealot needs cap to shoot, and if you orbit it close enough, it won't do any damage after TDs. Yes, I have never been in a Curse vs Zealot fight since QR, but I assume tactics that make the Zealot insanely easy against ships like Vagabond, Sacrilege, Ishtar and any AF out there, would also work for the Curse.
If the Cerberus is based on long range (as it should), you can just warp away. If you mean in gang/fleet warfare, you either have friends or die just like most other ships out there.
Sure, the curse suffers against missile boats, but mainly HMLs. HAMs (sometimes even range bonused ones, like cerb and onyx, if you've got that disruptor I mentioned) can't reach it. Anything smaller or bigger than those won't do enough DPS to scratch its paint.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 13:08:00 -
[29]
Arazu.
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Rude Bwoy
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Posted - 2009.02.19 13:39:00 -
[30]
depends on what you want to do.
If you are happy in fleet support role, Falcon You want solo kills, curse
all have their uses in fact. Who's the rudest of them all! |
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