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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 05:49:00 -
[1]
I have heard second hand (saw copy of combat log) that these NPC's do the following:
Run in packs of 5 BS 2300 plus damage/missile at 120 plus km Neut at 80 km Web all drones, fighters, and anything near them, then grind them into itty-bitty space dust. Spider tank Choose the weakest tank and focus fire. Change targets (see drones above)
Best/worst of all, POD people. (Saw combat log of a pod being warp scrammed.)
Can anyone confirm/deny these items?
If all are true, and the devs don't tone down these NPC abilities before Mar 10, the wormholes just got more scary than 0.0 K-space.
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Shun Makoto
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.19 05:55:00 -
[2]
Actually if you put this exact AI into the 0.0 rats
0.0 will put the fear of God back into many.
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Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.19 06:12:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Shun Makoto Actually if you put this exact AI into the 0.0 rats
0.0 will put the fear of God back into many.
the times that more people will rat in carriers are near ;P
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Lucien Tripoux
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Posted - 2009.02.19 06:15:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lucien Tripoux on 19/02/2009 06:16:34 actually, me and a mate, we explored a wormhole popped by a gm in mohas. we went against a pop made of 8 cruiser and 8 frigs. I was in a dominix with double remote and my mate was in a heavy tanked baddon with pulses. the result? well, let's say that we were happy that there were nice peoples in local to come and help us..
against these new npc, i fear that gallente, especially hard drone controller, will meet a hard time.... we though that we could deal with frigs with light/med drones but we soon realised that npc focus drones aswell, popping small drones in almost one alphastrike... drones got shooted at nearly as soon as they were sent against their target, maybe this timer should be revised. I recognise that in classi missions/ratting drones were nobrain/uber but i've the feeling that this is maybe too much...
my mate tried to eject to see how sleepers would react and they locked and scrambled the pod but they didn't shoot at it...
The new npc are hard tankers, even a frig seems to tank better than a npc BS, but as we didn't tried to change the damage type, let's say that we were hitting with the wrong kind of damage ^^. Sleepers change their target focus quite often, they're nearly fearsome. For the damage dealt, i couldn't get now my log analyser, but i think this would be interesting... heavy damaage + web+scramble for nearly all npcs...
I like the idea of sleepers being hard to be beaten even in a gang, that's whyu i like these news npc, but i thing that the drone focus makes droneboats totally useless in this situations...
edit: french speaker here, i apologize for the poor english ^^
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Sunbird Huy
Caldari Wolf Task Force Gemini Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.19 06:38:00 -
[5]
Holy smoke, I just fell inlove with wormholes! Being gang banged by npc LOL!!! HOLY SMOKE!
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Laevateinn
Novus Aevum Transport and Industries Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2009.02.19 07:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Laevateinn on 19/02/2009 07:59:11 Against Sleeper Battleships, 3 of them broke a mission drakes tank. Four of them positively owned it. Same went for a Mael on XL SB setup, 4 Hardeners, at times, their weapons seem to bypass all the resistances and wreck for huge damage.
Damage log on a Drake, passive recharge setup, 2 Invuls, 3x LSE etc -
The sleepers also have incredible range. Funnily, when I was warping in to a fleet battle in a CNC at about 70km-100km, about 3 cruisers would aggro. But, when I warped in at 200km, everything locked me and popped me from 200km in around 10 seconds.
POD get scrambled - http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/palm0r/20090218212116.jpg
Drone boats suffer against this new AI - I had to be real careful with the use of my lights on the Drake, they would very quickly target them.
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Matt G
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.19 08:39:00 -
[7]
oh man oh man! i am going to love wormhole space! what's the bounties, if any, like on those puppies?
----- Nuff said. Troubleshoot my mind if I sound stupid.
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Da Death
Minmatar Relentless Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.19 08:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Matt G oh man oh man! i am going to love wormhole space! what's the bounties, if any, like on those puppies?
Very interested too... á Curse Absolution Prorator T2 Mods/Drones/Ammo Manufacturer
All generalizations are dangerous, even this one. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Laevateinn Edited by: Laevateinn on 19/02/2009 07:59:11 Against Sleeper Battleships, 3 of them broke a mission drakes tank. Four of them positively owned it. Same went for a Mael on XL SB setup, 4 Hardeners, at times, their weapons seem to bypass all the resistances and wreck for huge damage.
Damage log on a Drake, passive recharge setup, 2 Invuls, 3x LSE etc -
------
The sleepers also have incredible range. Funnily, when I was warping in to a fleet battle in a CNC at about 70km-100km, about 3 cruisers would aggro. But, when I warped in at 200km, everything locked me and popped me from 200km in around 10 seconds.
POD get scrambled - http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/palm0r/20090218212116.jpg
Drone boats suffer against this new AI - I had to be real careful with the use of my lights on the Drake, they would very quickly target them.
Link the image, don't post it.
Originally by: Matt G oh man oh man! i am going to love wormhole space! what's the bounties, if any, like on those puppies?
0, nothing, nada.
they are drones (apparently) and concord has no problem with them.
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Ajurna Jakar
Gallente Dark Sun Collective Dark Matter Consortium.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:13:00 -
[10]
no bounties. just items tehy drop.
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Sir Molly
Caldari ELTIE PVPER'S
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:22:00 -
[11]
concord do not care about robots in space as long as they stay our of empire, so no bounties
the crap they drop is going to be worth alot for a long time, anyway
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Mal'ol Soddo
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:23:00 -
[12]
Shame about the new "AI". Just seems to consist of giving them bigger resists, more DPS, insane range, and a rep bonus based on how many sleepers are nearby and the ever annoying primary drones ability.
Was hoping they would have been defeated via typical roaming gang setups. Infact I thought that was the plan, though I fear I dreamt that up now.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mal'ol Soddo Shame about the new "AI". Just seems to consist of giving them bigger resists, more DPS, insane range, and a rep bonus based on how many sleepers are nearby and the ever annoying primary drones ability.
Was hoping they would have been defeated via typical roaming gang setups. Infact I thought that was the plan, though I fear I dreamt that up now.
Haven't been able to test myself yet, but while their firepower might be a bit too much now, it sounds like they actually use tactics.
Has anyone allready tried speedtanking them with AFs? Will they primary logistics which is 60km away? ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Murtough Galaktikus
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mal'ol Soddo Shame about the new "AI". Just seems to consist of giving them bigger resists, more DPS, insane range, and a rep bonus based on how many sleepers are nearby and the ever annoying primary drones ability.
Was hoping they would have been defeated via typical roaming gang setups. Infact I thought that was the plan, though I fear I dreamt that up now.
It feels like the introduction of level5 missions. Well ok, i havent tried them out on TQ since they are gone live. Anyway ... i agree to Soddo. I dont like the idea of an UBER-tank with ownage-damage.
I do know that creating a new ai is very very complex but this isnt like much of a new AI to me (so far). Sry.
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Polinus
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wingshard
Originally by: Shun Makoto Actually if you put this exact AI into the 0.0 rats
0.0 will put the fear of God back into many.
the times that more people will rat in carriers are near ;P
the sleeper BS spawns have already proved being able to kill carriers. SO you will need a officer fit mom if you want to solo them.
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Heimanu
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:40:00 -
[16]
Maybe the wormhole space is designed for semi large scale gang , Motherships and all , and for corporations that can setup up such fleet. No pain , no gain sort of thing -------====== Signature ======------
Relativity : Since Light is faster than Sound , some people seems bright , until they open their mouth. |
Eran Laude
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Wingshard
Originally by: Shun Makoto Actually if you put this exact AI into the 0.0 rats
0.0 will put the fear of God back into many.
the times that more people will rat in carriers are near ;P
the sleeper BS spawns have already proved being able to kill carriers. SO you will need a officer fit mom if you want to solo them.
This is assuming that the final iteration of wormholes will have any big enough to permit a mothership through - the only way that Mums are in there now are through GM action.
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DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:41:00 -
[18]
Yesterday we had 2 MS and a Carrier attacking 4 Sleeper BS.
the sleepers where spider tanking eachother... after 15 mins we decided to give up. i lost about 4 fighters in that fight, dont know how much the other 2 MS's lost.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:51:00 -
[19]
Now all we need is to have Sleeper covops probe you down and warp a gank squad on top of you.
And smack on local, of course.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar M. Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.19 09:52:00 -
[20]
Lol did anyoen tried to DOomsday them? :P ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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RascaPiedras
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Posted - 2009.02.19 10:04:00 -
[21]
and we suppose to kill this things for build t3 ships? if ccp dont nerf this, only Entity will have 1
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.19 10:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: RascaPiedras and we suppose to kill this things for build t3 ships? if ccp dont nerf this, only Entity will have 1
This is a very good point. It would be a shame if NPC hunting in W-H space is only really achievable by mass blobs from powerful alliances.
Equally, I wonder how industrial / mining corps will even hope to survive under the weight of such fire power? CCP should consider carefully how powerful these AI NPC rats are i.e are they just smart, or are they essentially maxed out .0 rats in which case you'll be in a pod before you even notice any 'AI'.
There's a big risk here that CCP make their AI NPCs 'uber' and risk brassing off large numbers of players because the NPC always win.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.02.19 10:28:00 -
[23]
quick question.... somebody triied to dump on ecm them? Once rats was immune to ecm and sensor dumping, but since now rats was not spidertanking or attacking drones. Seems to me that the sleepers IA is triing to replicate pvp tactics.
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puckohontas
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Posted - 2009.02.19 10:29:00 -
[24]
Quote ccp
Quote: ôToday is an unprecedented time to start playing, as you can get ahead of the curve before Apocrypha releases in stores and our hard work hits the server cluster. ItÆll be easier than ever to get ælost in the wormholeÆ that is EVE with what we have planned for the future of our expanding universe.ö
so like 1-2 months training is enough to do wormholes? ccp is trying to recruit more players, with wormholes, when a handfull veterans can complete them :P
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.02.19 10:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cailais
Equally, I wonder how industrial / mining corps will even hope to survive under the weight of such fire power?
Why would an industrial / mining corp be unable to fight (either vs NPCs or vs other players)? We're an industrial outfit and we can dish out the pew pew pew, if needed.
Sure, if it turns out that capships are needed in w-space, then small industrial outfits may have a problem... but at that point lots of others will have problems, too. At least the industrials can built their own caps.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.19 10:48:00 -
[26]
sounds like the npcs are aimed at 3 year old vets in groups of 5-10 bs. Even then its gunna be instapop, ypu they need to be toned down. Or newer plaeyrs wont touch em
Im wondering how near maxed t3 strategic cruisers and HACs will go might be more useful situation
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Moenter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.19 10:59:00 -
[27]
This all sounds fantastic. The only thing I'd have a prob with is getting scrambled and not shot at in a pod. How would you escape?
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Jarne
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 11:00:00 -
[28]
Hm, I have to say I'm pretty disappointed by what I heard about sleeper "AI" by now. Seems just like NPCs with boosted stats and some special "behaviour" like shooting drones.
Why not implement just the basic "tactics" every player would use in a fight, e.g. try to get good warp ins with their inties/whatever (then they don't need firepower or neut on uber-range), or warp in and out when not scrambled...?
I they call primaries it's a good thing tbh, but how can player foresee that and send a supertanked bait as primary if the sleepers' behaviour is deterministic?
Will they change primary if they see that they can't kill their current primary?
- Success=Achievements/Expectations
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 11:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Has anyone allready tried speedtanking them with AFs? Will they primary logistics which is 60km away?
Originally by: Nova Fox
Originally by: Spaztick Seems to me that Sleeper ships are just as powerful as ones piloted by capsuleers, C/D?
Harder to kill than normal players? yes definetly. Do they hit back just as hard? probably I only ran into the freshly awoken drones, the ones that been up and running around for the longest time are supposivly harder and only found in their dungeon plexes.
Observed behaviors
Will get under your guns on purpose and speed tank you
Will get out of range of any harmful ewar if its effecting thier ability to fight if its not effecting thier ability theylll remain in range and 'tank' it.
They obviously have GROUP AI which allows them to call primary targets, they can call primary on anything concived to be a threat or easy kill and they lock near instantly, this is how they killed my drones which im sorta ran out now.
They all can MWD it seems and keep up with most nano ships giving them a run for thier money.
They can mwd to avoid drone fire, however most times they just primary the hell out of the drones if htey can pop it before it gets back in your bay.
They have been known to primary targets as they come out of warp to kill them before they online stuff and tank and take in the situation we lost two pilots this way.
what im going to be called 'Torrent' cannons have a nos/cap kill ability, its harder to keep cap stable when under heavier firewpoer than it was being left alone, its seemingly the only resonable.
One new missile type they is ins the Oneiric Missile.
They have armor and hull, armor slowly repairs, key word slowly, but there seems to be a metric tonn of it, same with hull and there seems to be no hull penetration (quick kills)
Thier chase range is pertty far about 300km range pursuit esitmated.
They will web however seems to be thier only ewar aside from the Torrent cannons secondary effect.
Not much else I can tell you I ran out of wingmen and everything else... currently stuck in a stalemate between me and 5 sleeper frigates.
From here.
Several interesting comments in that thread.
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DeepBlue
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.19 11:25:00 -
[30]
Edited by: DeepBlue on 19/02/2009 11:42:17 wired behavior...
i warped in my cheetah, they insta agroed it... so i warped it out again.
then i warped in my carrier, im sitting there with my carrier since 5 mins and they dont want to agro it... i have them locked, but no offensive modules active atm.
after agressing them with fighters they finally started to agress...
pic
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