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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.02.26 09:32:00 -
[151]
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more.
epic answer is epic!
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.26 09:34:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 26/02/2009 09:35:30
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Yes of course there will be cookie cutter setups (including subsystem configuration ofc) on scrapheap within the first few weeks of introduction. Let's be realistic here.
Other then that: Someone got a bad day i guess. --
Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
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Jack Jombardo
Amarr Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.02.26 10:43:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 26/02/2009 10:43:42
Originally by: The Djego
Put it this way are a bit more Boni and a little more Tank\Gank worth 1B Isk compared to a 100 M Hac or a 150M CS? Simply something that is usefull and donŠt dies to the first Blob out there.
Against a Blob you MUST die. There is no way you are alowed to pwn 1 V X where X is bigger then 2 (maybe 3 with luck).
Your argumentation is very similar to Carriers before they got nerved. "I spend lot's of ISK, now I expect to pwn!" which is absolut wrong.
You have to compare them with other CRUISER class ships and nothink else. T3 will be better then HACs if modulated for it. They will be better then Recons if modulated for it. Just logistics aren't beteble in there rool ;).
But now you can build your own "fightable EW cruiser" or "tanked EW cruiser" or or or ...
ISK is allready a way to make you overpowert (spend money for pirat implant, faction/deadspace stuff ...). Making T3 much better then T2 would result that you MUST fly them to have some sort of fun/changs at PvP - and this is the absolut WORST case that can happen!
If I MUST sell GTCs to be half way PvP able just to buy this T3 stuff ... then please DELETE ALL PVP ACTIVITIS!!!! Absolut NO WAY I would ever buy ISK for real money (GTC are nothink else like this!) just to be part of PvP!
Originally by: Vaal Erit Spread your arms out and go "Brrrrrrrrrr" and then "fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap fwap" Then takeoff!
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Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2009.02.26 11:08:00 -
[154]
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Since my client crashed and I couldn't login on Tranquility (both problems I experience since quantum suck release), I could test your wonderful new ships again. Regarding the "actual thinking". This is bull****, sorry. Let's say I want to create a railgun Tengu. Combining my offensive module 3 with engineering module 2 or 3 will result in a ship that caps out within seconds. Either by only running hardeners or by running hardeners and guns. The only useful combination would be modules 1&3. Woohoo, all those options I have. I guess I just found a cookie-cutter setup. By the way, there are less then two weeks left till release, and tons of bugs to find. I have to disassemble the T3 ship everytime I log off and log back in. Otherwise, pretty much every fitted module is invisible on the fitting screen, and nonexistant when I undock. Oops, sorry, I can't undock unless I like watching black screens. The game doesn't realize my cap has refreshed, once the cap was empty. (Unless I extract my pod and jump back in.) There are several graphic glitches with the electronics module. Some modules don't add the hardpoints they should. And the boni for each module are not even up for testing yet. I guess I could even cry some more about Caldari battleships and the mission impossible to fit large shield transfers. Just because remote repaired battleships seem to be the cookie cutter solution to fight those sleepers for T3 salvage.
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.02.26 11:52:00 -
[155]
Edited by: The Djego on 26/02/2009 11:55:25 Edited by: The Djego on 26/02/2009 11:53:21
Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 26/02/2009 10:43:42
Originally by: The Djego
Put it this way are a bit more Boni and a little more Tank\Gank worth 1B Isk compared to a 100 M Hac or a 150M CS? Simply something that is usefull and donŠt dies to the first Blob out there.
Against a Blob you MUST die. There is no way you are alowed to pwn 1 V X where X is bigger then 2 (maybe 3 with luck).
Your argumentation is very similar to Carriers before they got nerved. "I spend lot's of ISK, now I expect to pwn!" which is absolut wrong.
You have to compare them with other CRUISER class ships and nothink else. T3 will be better then HACs if modulated for it. They will be better then Recons if modulated for it. Just logistics aren't beteble in there rool ;).
But now you can build your own "fightable EW cruiser" or "tanked EW cruiser" or or or ...
ISK is allready a way to make you overpowert (spend money for pirat implant, faction/deadspace stuff ...). Making T3 much better then T2 would result that you MUST fly them to have some sort of fun/changs at PvP - and this is the absolut WORST case that can happen!
If I MUST sell GTCs to be half way PvP able just to buy this T3 stuff ... then please DELETE ALL PVP ACTIVITIS!!!! Absolut NO WAY I would ever buy ISK for real money (GTC are nothink else like this!) just to be part of PvP!
It is not about pawn anything it is about not geting pawned by anything thats the diffrence(simlar like the ability to pawn things in Nano ships was horrably overated, it was the survialbility what made them good).
You rabeling against the wrong guy btw, Im a BS pilote in the first place, I usely buy GTCs instead selling them. I personaly utilize expensive Fittings and Implants but allways in relation to her price and the advantage it gives me. Outside bigger Blob vs Smaller Blob(what will be not the place where you want to be in a 1 B Cruiser), in Small Scale/solo rule expensive Fits the playingfield for a long time, it isnŠt something new(or simply enught Falcons atm sadly).
The real question to you, do you have the balls spending 1B on a Cruiser that will die in 95% of all cases a T2 one would die(simlar to Thorax vs Deimos realy) just to fly T3?
I personaly wouldnŠt(because I earn the ISK ingame instead selling GTCs and actualy donŠt have to Billions to burn every month), and there are fare better things around you can get for this pricetag allready and ships that rank into the billions per pop arnŠt this what everybody flyes atm for the exactly the same reson not any player will be in a T3 cruiser when they would be worth her cost -> ISK. Yust remember 2006(if you where around at this point) where T2 Fittings actualy wasnŠt the standard(you payed over 100 M for a T2 Fitting on a BS and named Items where also fare more expensive) because they where expensive and you payed 300 M for a Hac. The entry point was actualy lower, since T2 Ships and Fittings wasnŠt in any System and on any Ship. Having something expensive and powerfull represents a choice, having something good and respectalbe cheap for most of the people in eve only increases the general standard and adds another drawback/must have for younger players.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:46:00 -
[156]
My only concern with T3 is that the game is already obviously imbalanced. Lets add 1000 more combinations to the mix to use and abuse before we fix the fitting issues with 1/2 the ships in the game. Want to know why you see ishtars, vagabonds and sacrilege/zealots as the lead HACs? Because the others are inferior and should get fixed. Not because there aren't any alternatives. Same applies to every grade of ship from T1 frigate up through Dreads.
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FlyinS
Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:18:00 -
[157]
Another advantage I can see to all the combinations is how unpredictable it will be.
If you're going against a fleet and you see a Falcon. You KNOW how it's fit. There's no question on it.
Now you go against that shiny new T3 cruiser, and you have no idea what to expect from it.
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Yalezorn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:27:00 -
[158]
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more.
I wish WoW had CM's this awesome.
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givitome
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Posted - 2009.02.26 19:31:00 -
[159]
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more.
While the author of this thread is apparently unable to make his own logical decisions, I never expected to see a ccp employee post the same kind of pointless responses that 75% of the people on these forums make. But hey its your business, you are entitled to run it the way you want, but most employees from any respectable company would take care not to talk to their customers that way, no matter what the issue is, lol but hey like I said, its your company.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2009.02.26 19:39:00 -
[160]
Originally by: givitome While the author of this thread is apparently unable to make his own logical decisions, I never expected to see a ccp employee post the same kind of pointless responses that 75% of the people on these forums make. But hey its your business, you are entitled to run it the way you want, but most employees from any respectable company would take care not to talk to their customers that way, no matter what the issue is, lol but hey like I said, its your company.
Perhaps it's because CCP feels secure enough in its ability to provide a game that people will continue to play that it's willing to let its employees speak their minds.
Frankly, it's refreshing to find a company that'll call a fruit a fruit and not, "A slightly off-color fruit of an indeterminate level of staleness." ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
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givitome
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Posted - 2009.02.26 19:50:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Shereza
Originally by: givitome While the author of this thread is apparently unable to make his own logical decisions, I never expected to see a ccp employee post the same kind of pointless responses that 75% of the people on these forums make. But hey its your business, you are entitled to run it the way you want, but most employees from any respectable company would take care not to talk to their customers that way, no matter what the issue is, lol but hey like I said, its your company.
Perhaps it's because CCP feels secure enough in its ability to provide a game that people will continue to play that it's willing to let its employees speak their minds.
Frankly, it's refreshing to find a company that'll call a fruit a fruit and not, "A slightly off-color fruit of an indeterminate level of staleness."
Sounds more like they have started taking what they have for granted, with a certain level ****yness, or self entitlement, lol their player base really isn't that big, its a rough world out there right now, all im saying is I would be more carful when trolling your own customers lol.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:09:00 -
[162]
... because we all know that an honest, frank reply is bad for any business...
===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:18:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Ranger 1 ... because we all know that an honest, frank reply is bad for any business...
It can be. But not when said business has no competitors...
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:41:00 -
[164]
Originally by: FlyinS Another advantage I can see to all the combinations is how unpredictable it will be.
If you're going against a fleet and you see a Falcon. You KNOW how it's fit. There's no question on it.
Now you go against that shiny new T3 cruiser, and you have no idea what to expect from it.
Guns, really fast, really tanky. Pick 2 of the 3.
The hardest thing tactically is everyone of them have a sensor type NOT like the rest of the race, so jamming is iffy. Stop, hammer time. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:05:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/02/2009 22:07:46 I think t3 will be intresting. I will be getting one for pvp of course but I hope it does not end up super pre-nerfed like the Black Ops class were.
I can see the first few t3 ships going for a few billion each. Once the collectors get their fill, the real question is how many pvpers will use them. After all, there appear to be better mission ships or ..... mining... ships already in existance. (though the final stats taking skills into account could be anybody's guess).
I think we all know that there will be cookie cutter setups made, using the best combo for sniping or nano or whatever flavor the future brings. With that said, I think that cookie cutter players will simply just stick with the current ships. People like me, who started off using funky setups will get the most out of them. (I was perhaps the first guy to use shield tanked launcher curse's, back when everybody armour tanked them). Ironically enough, its probebly the same people who think t3 will be a failure that probebly do not understand it.
With that said, price is going to make or break t3. T3 appears to be difficult to make, due to complex production chain. If you can make hundreds of t3 ships from a few components, then it should be ok. If it turns out that you need 20 hours of effort in dangerous space to kill enough recipie mobs and skin them and then use some space potion brewing skill to make a single ship, then expect then to be used only as novilty items rather than the staple ship of the small gang/solopvper. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Karan Kaldarian
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:38:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Karan Kaldarian on 26/02/2009 23:40:34
.....when will we be able to "rescue" (jump in a still usable ship) a npc ship? Will we have a T3 ship for this? ;)
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:57:00 -
[167]
SPECULATION~!!!!!~!~1~!~1~ LOl
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Shereza
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Posted - 2009.02.27 00:27:00 -
[168]
Originally by: givitome Sounds more like they have started taking what they have for granted, with a certain level ****yness, or self entitlement, lol their player base really isn't that big, its a rough world out there right now, all im saying is I would be more carful when trolling your own customers lol.
Go to www.play.net/gs4
They used to have at least 4x whatever population you'll see listed on their web-site. Some games keep on going and going regardless of how the player base diminishes. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.27 00:50:00 -
[169]
Player posts barely coherent flamebait and begs people to flame him. Hrm... grow a brain?
Dev posts awesomesauce flame. Love it =)
Idiots reply saying that "some people might" be offended. Sorry guys, it's folks like you that are turning our society into cotton-swaddled morons who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Grow a brain, grow a spine, and get a life!
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2009.02.27 07:12:00 -
[170]
Originally by: CCP Whisper . Boo hoo. Cry some more.
awwww did he hurt your feelings?
www.garia.net |
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iwillkillyou187
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Posted - 2009.02.27 19:18:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Player posts barely coherent flamebait and begs people to flame him. Hrm... grow a brain?
Dev posts awesomesauce flame. Love it =)
Idiots reply saying that "some people might" be offended. Sorry guys, it's folks like you that are turning our society into cotton-swaddled morons who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Grow a brain, grow a spine, and get a life!
This sounds like a deep seeded personal issue to me lol, on a side note, the poster complaining about T3 ships has nothing to do with our society turing into cotton swaddled morons hahahahaha.
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Casino Alkasar
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.27 20:53:00 -
[172]
keep cool if ya have a bad day and still make a wity funny coment on a *stupid* post of your customer = win
Flaming your own customer in a moreorless weak-sauce way because of a stupid coment != win
I do also believe that soon *best* setups will pop up, and directly here on this merry forum.
_________________ itze mine RockŠn roll |
RC Denton
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Posted - 2009.02.27 22:44:00 -
[173]
I agree with the OP. I think t3 really fits in between t1 and t2 where t2 is the optimized uber ship for doing whatever it is you want to do, pew pew, mining, etc. Where as t3 is going to allow you to have one hull with multiple modules and build what you need from there. Today I need to rat so I'll put these subsystems on, now I need to pvp so I'll rejigger it with another set of sub systems. I think this is a fine and cool idea, but the implementation is going to kill it.
- Based on the difficulty of sleepers t3 prices are going to be nuts
- If you die you lose SP which is the grandmaster of death penalties in EVE
- People will Min/Max these ships because of the expense and we will see complete cookie cutter builds within a couple months of release
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.27 22:52:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more.
For about week or two until we mathematically determine the best tank, most dps, longest range, and whatever combination of any other attributes you could possibly want from them.
What makes you think it'll take that long? I give it 1 weekend, tops. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 22:53:00 -
[175]
I guess we'll see a fairly large number of setups that turn out to be viable.
The reason for cookie-cutter setups in the first place is the rather limited customizability of t1/t2 hulls, you wont really see it that much on t3 hulls as far as I'd think.
Simply because you cant name one setup the be-all-end-all if there are 20 more that do the same with tweaked stats, or give the ship a completely different role altogether.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.27 22:55:00 -
[176]
Originally by: givitome
Originally by: Shereza
Originally by: givitome While the author of this thread is apparently unable to make his own logical decisions, I never expected to see a ccp employee post the same kind of pointless responses that 75% of the people on these forums make. But hey its your business, you are entitled to run it the way you want, but most employees from any respectable company would take care not to talk to their customers that way, no matter what the issue is, lol but hey like I said, its your company.
Perhaps it's because CCP feels secure enough in its ability to provide a game that people will continue to play that it's willing to let its employees speak their minds.
Frankly, it's refreshing to find a company that'll call a fruit a fruit and not, "A slightly off-color fruit of an indeterminate level of staleness."
Sounds more like they have started taking what they have for granted, with a certain level ****yness, or self entitlement, lol their player base really isn't that big, its a rough world out there right now, all im saying is I would be more carful when trolling your own customers lol.
actually their player base is quite decent. WOW has a bigger player base but look at what extent WOW advertises. plus they come out with expansions you have to buy.
figure their is probably over 500k active accounts in this game.( i believe they get something like 100k unique logons a day). And this amount is growing. their has been a noticable change in the amount of people that are logged on at any one time even since i started playing 9 months ago. Add to that on march 12th or thereabouts eve is going to hit the stores. while to many players this game is old to many potentional players its going to be "new". so thats going to cause a spike in players.
the devs are trying their best to make the game better. They do fail and sometimes screw it up worse than it was. But honestly if all these people on here badmouthing the devs exactly knew how complicated a game( its complicated itself just on the client end compared to others little lone what we dont see) like eve was to balance and keep up with hundreds of thousands of people trying to outthink them and use everything to get an edge to the point of abuse so they can say I WIN!, people would be more appreciate..
When all you flamers of the CCP post can manage a game as vast and complicated as eve PLUS balance it when over 100k other people are trying to UNBALANCE it so they got an edge in a fight... then you can flame the devs for flaming you for being unappreciate lil children.
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.27 23:30:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn figure their is probably over 500k active accounts in this game.( i believe they get something like 100k unique logons a day). And this amount is growing. their has been a noticable change in the amount of people that are logged on at any one time even since i started playing 9 months ago. Add to that on march 12th or thereabouts eve is going to hit the stores. while to many players this game is old to many potentional players its going to be "new". so thats going to cause a spike in players.
I remember when I first started playing...most people online at any given time was about 25k...
Originally by: CCP Nozh prices T3. goal around the price of tech 2 cruisers
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LegendInMyOwnMind
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Posted - 2009.02.27 23:43:00 -
[178]
The bad thing about the CCP response wasn't that it was rude. It was that it was naive and/or wrong.
What does it mean for a setup to be "cookie cutter"? It means a setup that alot of people use, which implies that it is a good setup. The reason these setups because cookiecutter is that they were successful and so became popular.
If you think that people aren't going to find the good setups for T3 and that these setups will then become cookiecutter, then you really shouldn't being trying to design or balance a game.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.27 23:54:00 -
[179]
Originally by: LegendInMyOwnMind The bad thing about the CCP response wasn't that it was rude. It was that it was naive and/or wrong.
What does it mean for a setup to be "cookie cutter"? It means a setup that alot of people use, which implies that it is a good setup. The reason these setups because cookiecutter is that they were successful and so became popular.
If you think that people aren't going to find the good setups for T3 and that these setups will then become cookiecutter, then you really shouldn't being trying to design or balance a game.
yes well you have a few hundred thousand people trying to find optimal setups. so the game has be constantly rebalanced. to balance a game like eve is near impossible you pretty much have to get it perfect and when you do and introduce new content you have to rebalance the entire game again.
this game cannot be balanced it is humanly impossible. I played a mmo before this for 5 years in which the devs came out with monthly patches trying to balance the game. after 5 years all they manage to do was cause a change in tactics and change the FotM several times.
The best CCP can hope for is near perfect and to keep the players interested enough with new stuff to do and use to keep players subscribing. and i would say they have the latter down fairly well.
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Casino Alkasar
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.28 01:22:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Casino Alkasar on 28/02/2009 01:25:04 The dev was wrong, the dev was rude, the dev was not very inovativ, but crossing a border and that makes a bad troll. If ccp says okay to let it get a little more free and rough on the forums, all kay with me ;)
I just dont figure why so many praise this if they would go rampage when other companies pull the same gfo! **** on thier playerbase but mean it.((ofcourse better then darkfall, which i think are only lieng))
bla bla anyway End result is if ya played some other tabletops /games where you can built ya own stuff from out of tons ofmodules, there are always *setups* which grow very popular and used offen, even by nobrainers.
I for my part am looking forward to it big time. Just dont praise it for what it not is.
_________________ itze mine RockŠn roll |
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