Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 18:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mining barges are too easily ganked with ships worth far less. I think that there should be more hull points on a barge and exhumers to stop easy ganks from happening on ships that actually mount a tank (damage control unit) This way they couldnt just use a shiel or armor boost to tank rats in low and null easily while allowing them to survive in highsec. With all the changes happening to promote mining shouldn't we make it so that it costs as much to gank a barge as it does to make one? |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1327
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 18:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Check out the top-right corner of your screen. You see that little box that says "Search forums"? That will let you search and see if the idea has been posted before so you can avoid posting the same idea all over again. |
hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 20:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah problem is people arent suggesting that barges be hull buffed. They all want armor and shield buffs. That ruins the post. Also dont feel like digging for 30 minutes trying to find a post when "mining ship hull" search came up with nothing in the features and ideas forum. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
405
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 20:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
hungrymanbreakfast wrote:Yeah problem is people arent suggesting that barges be hull buffed. They all want armor and shield buffs. That ruins the post. Also dont feel like digging for 30 minutes trying to find a post when "mining ship hull" search came up with nothing in the features and ideas forum.
Funny, I've seen that twice in the last week or two. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
23
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 20:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hulkaggeddon jitters..
Anyways there is some merit to OPs claim..
The alpha striking is getting a tad lame.. and way to cheap..
What would be interesting is partly what OP suggests, and general reduction in concord response time..
All ships had a general boost to Hull HP.. and modules quicly went off-line when armor was gone, then fights would be slightly prolonged..
Add to that the option to have systems "escalated" in a way similar to how incursions work.. So systems security got beefed if a lot of ships and pod kills were happening.. Ideally the dynamic should be "the opposite" so as pirates ganked carebears security was reduced.. while as carebears (high security charaters) ganked low sec status pilots the security got upgraded..
So tl:dr
3x Hull Hp on all ships and half the response time of concord..
WH like area effects like target range reduction or random jamming near gates, when security is "upgraded to enforced".. When this occurs would be depending on security class, and could be prolonged or cancelled by player to player activity..
|
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
409
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 21:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
A BIG MEANIE TORNADO GANKED MY HULK PLEASE MAKE MY HULK FIVE TIMES STRONGER CCP GANKERS ARE MEAN AND MEANIES ARE NO FUN!!1!!!1
|
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
593
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 22:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
1. Nerf hull hitpoint of the hulk 2. Nerf the damage control to 30% resists, pretty much a passive mod (1 cap, 30 second cycle) acting as a crutch to prolong PVP 3. All ships now suffer when they get to hull, as they should just die in a massive fire. 4. ??? 5. PROFIT! Boost shield hitpoint amount on hulk to properly tank instead of last resort ****** hull tank. Hulk is 37.5% resist to 1899 shields max skilled and unfitted, pathetic considering its the size of a battlecruiser, has cruiser shield and armor amounts, with frig sized fitting capablities not to mention it has only two lows to increase lol-structure tank while giving up asteroid amount gank yet any other T2 ship can fit an approriate shield / armor tank, plus gank mods, and a DCU (hulk can't get both gank mods and a DCU without giving up something else because of that +CPU modifier from mining upgrades)
tl;dr- Get rid of the hull structure barrier and increase armor/shields as appropriate to the T2 ship in general.
Alternatively reduce the PG / CPU of all T2 ships as well as having all Mag Stab, Heat Sinks, Gyro Stabs, and Ballistic control units increasing CPU very much like the Mining Upgrades (<-- asteroid +gank like combat ship +damage gank) so they too have to deal with the problem of fitting a tank; T2 ships can fit high tank or high DPS but can also fit pretty effective middle of the ground in tank and gank...they don't suffer such restrictive numbers like the hulk does. |
hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 00:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Caleb Ayrania wrote:
A BIG MEANIE TORNADO GANKED MY HULK PLEASE MAKE MY HULK FIVE TIMES STRONGER CCP GANKERS ARE MEAN AND MEANIES ARE NO FUN!!1!!!1
Never been ganked. Thanks for coming.
Im mostly looking to make mining a possible and worthwhile thing to do again. Since all that I see are noobs that get their first barge and a t1 catalyst wanders up and asplodes it in 2 seconds. We have upped the dps potential on alot of ships... why not up the defence on ships that are obviously underpowered. Industry could be fun again in eve. But I refuse to sit in a barge since I did a little ganking and realized how easy the ships die with very little isk/sp invested in the ship ganking.
Everyones done ganking. Its the reason it needs to be pushed down a little honestly. I see miners ganking other miners regularly cus they wanna try and fix their corps killboard after they get hit.... If we are trying to fix the game so that minings a worthwhile profession (which ccp is trying to do) then it should be possible to at least tank a barge without having to stick only defence mods and hope there Isn't a second tornado... |
hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 00:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:1. Nerf hull hitpoint of the hulk 2. Nerf the damage control to 30% resists, pretty much a passive mod (1 cap, 30 second cycle) acting as a crutch to prolong PVP 3. All ships now suffer when they get to hull, as they should just die in a massive fire. 4. ??? 5. PROFIT! Boost shield hitpoint amount on hulk to properly tank instead of last resort ****** hull tank. Hulk is 37.5% resist to 1899 shields max skilled and unfitted, pathetic considering its the size of a battlecruiser, has cruiser shield and armor amounts, with frig sized fitting capablities not to mention it has only two lows to increase lol-structure tank while giving up asteroid amount gank yet any other T2 ship can fit an approriate shield / armor tank, plus gank mods, and a DCU (hulk can't get both gank mods and a DCU without giving up something else because of that +CPU modifier from mining upgrades)
tl;dr- Get rid of the hull structure barrier and increase armor/shields as appropriate to the T2 ship in general.
Alternatively reduce the PG / CPU of all T2 ships as well as having all Mag Stab, Heat Sinks, Gyro Stabs, and Ballistic control units increasing CPU very much like the Mining Upgrades (<-- asteroid +gank like combat ship +damage gank) so they too have to deal with the problem of fitting a tank; T2 ships can fit high tank or high DPS but can also fit pretty effective middle of the ground in tank and gank...they don't suffer such restrictive numbers like the hulk does.
no no and more no. Why increase and decrease so much junk making hulks capable of tanking null rats in what is supposed to be really dangerous space solo? Theres no point in that its just flat out stupid, and the main argument for why the ships havent been buffed. Hull increases are the easy solution and make perfect sense. Its a damn mining ship. It wasn't designed to take alot of damage and come out with only a few scratches in the armor. If it gets attacked it should be a flaming, imploding mess... sturdy but not for combat. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
412
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 00:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
hungrymanbreakfast wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Caleb Ayrania wrote:
A BIG MEANIE TORNADO GANKED MY HULK PLEASE MAKE MY HULK FIVE TIMES STRONGER CCP GANKERS ARE MEAN AND MEANIES ARE NO FUN!!1!!!1
Never been ganked. Thanks for coming. Im mostly looking to make mining a possible and worthwhile thing to do again. Since all that I see are noobs that get their first barge and a t1 catalyst wanders up and asplodes it in 2 seconds. We have upped the dps potential on alot of ships... why not up the defence on ships that are obviously underpowered. Industry could be fun again in eve. But I refuse to sit in a barge since I did a little ganking and realized how easy the ships die with very little isk/sp invested in the ship ganking. Everyones done ganking. Its the reason it needs to be pushed down a little honestly. I see miners ganking other miners regularly cus they wanna try and fix their corps killboard after they get hit.... If we are trying to fix the game so that minings a worthwhile profession (which ccp is trying to do) then it should be possible to at least tank a barge without having to stick only defence mods and hope there Isn't a second tornado...
A newbie in his first ever retriever is going to be helped by buffing hulk EHP because...?
Making it impossible for hulks to tank belt rats in null boosts mining because...?
Something which has been part of EVE since day one eneds to be reduced because...? |
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
708
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 00:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mining is 99% safe without bothering to fit a tank.
You just have to put in a little effort. |
hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 00:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:hungrymanbreakfast wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Caleb Ayrania wrote:
A BIG MEANIE TORNADO GANKED MY HULK PLEASE MAKE MY HULK FIVE TIMES STRONGER CCP GANKERS ARE MEAN AND MEANIES ARE NO FUN!!1!!!1
Never been ganked. Thanks for coming. Im mostly looking to make mining a possible and worthwhile thing to do again. Since all that I see are noobs that get their first barge and a t1 catalyst wanders up and asplodes it in 2 seconds. We have upped the dps potential on alot of ships... why not up the defence on ships that are obviously underpowered. Industry could be fun again in eve. But I refuse to sit in a barge since I did a little ganking and realized how easy the ships die with very little isk/sp invested in the ship ganking. Everyones done ganking. Its the reason it needs to be pushed down a little honestly. I see miners ganking other miners regularly cus they wanna try and fix their corps killboard after they get hit.... If we are trying to fix the game so that minings a worthwhile profession (which ccp is trying to do) then it should be possible to at least tank a barge without having to stick only defence mods and hope there Isn't a second tornado... A newbie in his first ever retriever is going to be helped by buffing hulk EHP because...? Making it impossible for hulks to tank belt rats in null boosts mining because...? Something which has been part of EVE since day one eneds to be reduced because...?
More and more trolls..... eve is a constantly evolving game. Did the gallente guns not need a buff recently? Did we not just remove the fire rate reduction from destroyers to make them viable against frigates? Pretty sure as one thing changes other things need to be changed to rebalance affected areas. read the first post before bashing please.
hungrymanbreakfast wrote: Mining barges are too easily ganked with ships worth far less.
nuff said |
hungrymanbreakfast
Xion Limited Primal Force
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 00:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Mining is 99% safe without bothering to fit a tank.
You just have to put in a little effort.
lol |
Belshazzar Babylon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 05:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think the bargers and exhumers could use a PG buff. People keep saying that it can tank but we all know it can't really. No one can say how giving a Hulk an EHP or PG buff would break the game. With this thread you'll get suggestions to tank it to ~30k EHP, mine with Orca mindlinks, stay aligned in the belt, etc...
A lot of the combat ships have received love and attention from CCP lately. New BC's, buffs and or changes to Destryoyers and AF's. Now they're revisiting T1 frigates in a recent thread. No love for the Hulk in what 6 years. The answer is simple CCP hates miners. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
691
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 06:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Belshazzar Babylon wrote: A lot of the combat ships have received love and attention from CCP lately. New BC's, buffs and or changes to Destryoyers and AF's. Now they're revisiting T1 frigates in a recent thread. No love for the Hulk in what 6 years. The answer is simple CCP hates miners.
Statistically nobody uses Tormentors or most of the T1 frigs in eve, this is because they are crap at doing their job, the players realize this, and now CCP is looking into buffing them.
The Hulk is the most piloted PvE ship in EVE. If it were bad at doing its job, people would stop using it. Or downgrade to Covetors. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 06:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
In regards to industrial ships.. I keep coming back to incapacitation..
When someone attacks these types of ships they should take longer to take down, but not be able to flee.
The motivation should be to cry for help..
This is where I believe a nice little added feature could help.. Drag and drop bookmarks to local or any chat.
Basically you would end up with always having a BM in your hauler and be ready to link to any available help..
If the destruction took a while longer player to player justice and not just for the lolz fragging, could become part of gameplay..
|
Zarere
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 08:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
I've mined for hours and hours almost afk in a completely untanked hulk.
i havnt been ganked yet because, unlike some players, i actually keep track of who is in system. |
OkarasRule
Iron Skies Renaissance Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 10:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zarere wrote:I've mined for hours and hours almost afk in a completely untanked hulk.
i havnt been ganked yet because, unlike some players, i actually keep track of who is in system.
Truely the proper way to mine lol I treat mining in high sec the exact same as ratting in null... Watch local, stay aligned, keep drones inside the ship unless rats and enjoy the isk
To tank a hulk you need basic shield tanking skills and your fine
EDIT
Iv actualy ran lv2 and some lv3 missions in my hulk lol used it as a drone boat |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 10:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Mining is 99% safe without bothering to fit a tank.
You just have to put in a little effort. Seems like we're repeating ourselves... Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
343
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'd suggest a boost in EHP in return for a reduction of mining yield. But that is not what miners want. They want everything. Miners are the biggest min-maxers in EVE, way worse then any PvP pilot. They'll do anything and pay anything to squeeze out that extra percent increase in ore/minute. And then, when that leaves their incredibly expensive setups incredibly vulnerable, they come and whine at CCP how their precious min-maxed setups should be further boosted, so the risk/reward balance doesn't apply to them.
And don't go threatening about mineral prices going to the roof. Most of you are only a few years old and don't remember the times when even frigates cost a lot of effort to obtain and how that actually made EVE a better game. Go and make trit 10 isk/unit and everyone will **** and moan, but they will less likely quit out of boredom. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
|
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 14:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
I might be wrong, but I think what many seem to be hinting at is making destruction take a bit longer.
Not shifting the powerbalance or even the outcome, but making it more frustation emotion and less stress emotions..
So instead of seeing your hulk or freighter or any large hull ship go insta-pop. You would see it burn..
I get the feeling that Tobiaz is right, gameplay used to be better, and I beliveve fights seemed a bit longer in non frigs.
Watching epic videos getting shorter seem to confirm this suspicion..
I think "Dead in the water" and "Sinking" states would be interesting to move towards..
Testing it with say Freighters and T3 ships..
So when T3 ships are dead in the water they start "Sinking" and you loose Skill points gradually until you abandon ship.
In Freighters it could be saving cargo, so the longer you stayed on ship, the more items would be salvagable even if the freighter was destroyed. This would give time for Freighters to get in support and if that support was also destroyed the won cargo was even better for the pirates. ofc this would mean reduction in concord response time to be fair..
|
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
595
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Let's break this down right quick. mining barges are INDUSTRIAL vessels, which means they aren't built to tank against ships designed for combat operations. So with that said, stop rehashing the already expended tears of carebears who have already cried due to being ganked. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Draconus Lofwyr
The Green Cross Red Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 16:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Let's break this down right quick. mining barges are INDUSTRIAL vessels, which means they aren't built to tank against ships designed for combat operations. So with that said, stop rehashing the already expended tears of carebears who have already cried due to being ganked.
the first tanks in the military were re-purposed tractors with armor and a gun on them. they would not have been chosen if the "hull" were likely to collapse under pressure. Oil tankers now have improved hulls to protect against running aground and tend to field non lethal weaponry to defend against pirates and hostile incursions. Mining is a dangerous task with or without the pirates running around. your flying in a bunch of moving rocks with masses many times the size of your ships, these tend to make little ships go crunch like a can. as such you need to have harder ships to survive this treatment. everything in game over the past years have received a buff, Guns, combat craft, drones (to some degree with t2 modules and faction drones) while mining barges and exhumers have only been neglected.
I have made recommendations to improve survivability while still not making these ships overtanked and unkillable.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1151683#post1151683
and for the loot drop nerf
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1141655#post1141655
Carebears are still bears with teeth, the more you neglect them, the more ships and modules will cost, the more you destroy their ships, the less you will have to fly to kill the real targets, other PvP'rs, unless your too much of a pansy to fight the real fight. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
230
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
It isn't just Barges. Every ship in EVE lacks tank. Because of the sandbox loophole, any effort to put a true tank in EVE just drives up blob demand. It's the reason Null sec PvP is trash in the eyes of most of EVE Online. "How much do we need to alpha"? It's the backbone of every null fleet battle. A Hulk tank is reflective of a Heavy assault cruiser tank. Go to null sec, you won't find Heavy assault cruisers. Why? Paper tanks. Why is it the Assault frigate changes made no ripple in gameplay? Drones can eat thier tank in 15 seconds. Why do we hate Super Caps? They can't tank to log offski.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Let's break this down right quick. mining barges are INDUSTRIAL vessels, which means they aren't built to tank against ships designed for combat operations. So with that said, stop rehashing the already expended tears of carebears who have already cried due to being ganked.
This might be all correct, if the price difference made sense in that statement..
Building a military ship is simply not costly enough by that comparison.
I would like it if ccp dared do a whole new cost rebalancing and make industrial tools a lot cheaper and easier to kill. This however would most likely bring to many tears on many fronts. It would however be extremely simple to test.. Lower the material demands on industrials and increase the building time and skill needs. Thus the actual price would not change to much.. Then make the industrial unites easier to kill.
There is however the connected need to grant players better features to police and defend such materials. A direction mechanics havent really moved much yet..
With better options to police and kill pirates on sight, there is merit to the thought though..
|
Loni Elahhez
Easter Bunnies Corp
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 01:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:I'd suggest a boost in EHP in return for a reduction of mining yield. But that is not what miners want. They want everything. Miners are the biggest min-maxers in EVE, way worse then any PvP pilot. They'll do anything and pay anything to squeeze out that extra percent increase in ore/minute. And then, when that leaves their incredibly expensive setups incredibly vulnerable, they come and whine at CCP how their precious min-maxed setups should be further boosted, so the risk/reward balance doesn't apply to them.
And don't go threatening about mineral prices going to the roof. Most of you are only a few years old and don't remember the times when even frigates cost a lot of effort to obtain and how that actually made EVE a better game. Go and make trit 10 isk/unit and everyone will **** and moan, but they will less likely quit out of boredom.
You can easely gank a 300m hulk is a 1m destroyer, without it standing a chance, this is what he on about..
Am not really sure how it could be done, but ^ needs some sort of balancing according to EVE's own "Risk versus rewards" concept. EVE Storyline Tracker | http://eve.timers.dk |
Khoda Khan
Zantiu-Braun Corporation Zantiu-Braun Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mining/Hulks/Suicide Ganking is not broken, therefore doesn't need fixed. Working entirely as intended.
If you get ganked, it's your fault. Quit trying to blame the game mechanics to cover the victim's absolute lack of sound decision making.
Case in point, a corpmate who has been playing since 2007 runs four accounts. Three Hulks, one Orca. Never fits a tank. Fits solely for absolute best yield possible. In five years this particular player has not lost a single Hulk to a suicide ganker. And while this player does not play quite as much these days as used to, I'm sure there's an accumulated several thousand hours logged in and mining between those accounts that would testify that none of these mechanics/ships are broken and anyone falling victim to a suicide gank is more or less a moron. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |