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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Trinity Six
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.04.25 16:25:00 -
[121] - Quote
OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT wrote:Trinity Six wrote:Johann Zateki wrote:Templar Nato wrote: blah blah empty quoting
If you read one post below that you would see that assaults take longer too and are not by any means the new vanguards and are in fact Tier3 scout sites. the only thing that didn't get nerfed were hq sites Ya, Assaults WERE going to be the new vanguards with what we saw on Sisi and read in the patch notes. Then CCP decided they actually love to lie to their gaming population, and ****** us all in our asses. This attitude is quite frankly why I think public access to the SiSi server is dumb. Its called a TEST server for a reason. It isn't the "IF ITS ON HERE IT IS THE WAY IT WILL BE ON TQ" server.
you're an idiot. It was in the patch notes. |
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries
12
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Posted - 2012.04.25 16:31:00 -
[122] - Quote
Did you spend all night crying about this in this thread? |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1380
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 17:09:00 -
[123] - Quote
xVx dreadnaught wrote:That's strange because I got aggro when scooping up a can from one of the alts of the group the other day, the alt had DC'd but the can was still sitting there. It bounced around the logis for ages till eventually we took a break.
Wardec aggro comes up the specific message but as far as I understand looted containers doesn't
Unless CCP broke it again, loot aggro now breaks logi cycles just like GCC and triggers a warning just like war aggro. Odds are your logi pilots just clicked "yes" to the warning because they trusted you to not abuse the aggro.
I'll have to fire up some highsec alts and see if something has changed from the last time we tested out aggro mechanics. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
11
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Posted - 2012.04.25 18:03:00 -
[124] - Quote
xVx dreadnaught wrote:Gonzo TheGreat wrote:Try w-space fleets, and they die a lot more often and no one is whining I know, I fly in W-space as well... Usually I'm one of the people hunting trying to find w-space fleets to kill. But never have I seen one with as much bling as any serious incursion runner. Also I wasn't whining about losing incursion fleets... I was saying that one criticism of incursions is that they are "risk free" when in reality they are not. If your logi's bail/DC/suck/grief... You can lose billions of isk
hunting or get hunted??
and what did you hunt.??
some drakes runnning C1 site??? |
xVx dreadnaught
The Dude's Interstellar Enterprizes Quixotic Hegemony
25
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Posted - 2012.04.25 18:27:00 -
[125] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:xVx dreadnaught wrote:Gonzo TheGreat wrote:Try w-space fleets, and they die a lot more often and no one is whining I know, I fly in W-space as well... Usually I'm one of the people hunting trying to find w-space fleets to kill. But never have I seen one with as much bling as any serious incursion runner. Also I wasn't whining about losing incursion fleets... I was saying that one criticism of incursions is that they are "risk free" when in reality they are not. If your logi's bail/DC/suck/grief... You can lose billions of isk hunting or get hunted?? and what did you hunt.?? some drakes runnning C1 site???
Last proper targets we got were a couple of RR domi's (one navy issue one standard) in a C3... not that it's a big deal or anything.
But as you say C1, I remember me and a corpy did go into a C1 witha pair of Assault Frigs and scored a Rook kill... I know, nothing special, but was more for the fun of it. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
12
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Posted - 2012.04.25 18:34:00 -
[126] - Quote
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Last proper targets we got were a couple of RR domi's (one navy issue one standard) in a C3... not that it's a big deal or anything.
But as you say C1, I remember me and a corpy did go into a C1 witha pair of Assault Frigs and scored a Rook kill... I know, nothing special, but was more for the fun of it.
only killing that much and you call incursion risk-free, what a shame
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OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
28
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Posted - 2012.04.25 18:53:00 -
[127] - Quote
Trinity Six wrote:OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT wrote:Trinity Six wrote:Johann Zateki wrote:Templar Nato wrote: blah blah empty quoting
If you read one post below that you would see that assaults take longer too and are not by any means the new vanguards and are in fact Tier3 scout sites. the only thing that didn't get nerfed were hq sites Ya, Assaults WERE going to be the new vanguards with what we saw on Sisi and read in the patch notes. Then CCP decided they actually love to lie to their gaming population, and ****** us all in our asses. This attitude is quite frankly why I think public access to the SiSi server is dumb. Its called a TEST server for a reason. It isn't the "IF ITS ON HERE IT IS THE WAY IT WILL BE ON TQ" server. you're an idiot. It was in the patch notes.
It was in the patch notes that yes it would be changed. Someone took to heart that they would mirror the results from SiSi and now that they aren't they are about to implode because it doesn't match. Please continue to QQ Moar. |
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries
12
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Posted - 2012.04.25 19:02:00 -
[128] - Quote
When are you people going to learn that rats, no matter the form, do not constitute risk? |
xVx dreadnaught
The Dude's Interstellar Enterprizes Quixotic Hegemony
26
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Posted - 2012.04.25 19:20:00 -
[129] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Last proper targets we got were a couple of RR domi's (one navy issue one standard) in a C3... not that it's a big deal or anything.
But as you say C1, I remember me and a corpy did go into a C1 witha pair of Assault Frigs and scored a Rook kill... I know, nothing special, but was more for the fun of it.
only killing that much and you call incursion risk-free, what a shame in a C5 farming fleet, the only logistics ship is carrier which if he dc, the whole fleet with 2,3 lokis, 5,6 dread all die in seconds. while your incursion fleet has 3 200m logis. isnt it risk-free
But isn't the reward from your C5 wormhole sites a lot higher than incursion running?
The risk does match the reward. Because in a decent incursion fleet before you could male about 100 mill an hour... any higher and you were in one of those "elite" fleets.
Yes 3 logi's but most spend more on their logi ship so they can get more out of it. To get all 4 reps being T2 my guardian has a Bailey plate on it, which is more than 500 mill on it's own.
And still if those logi's go down you can be losing up to 8 deadspace and faction fit Vindicators, Nightmares, Machariels... And they will all die in seconds if the logi's are down...
How often do your fleets come under attack? I imagine being in your fortress of a WH system that you have scouts every where not to mention Warp disruption bubbles on any holes while your fleets are active.
Because the Incursion fleets are out in the open for anyone to attempt a logi gank. And they do try, with some success. |
BearJews
Android Arms And Industrial Corporation Tenth Legion
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:26:00 -
[130] - Quote
Liliana Rahl wrote:When are you people going to learn that rats, no matter the form, do not constitute risk? Hey whatever makes you sleep at night. |
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Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:29:00 -
[131] - Quote
xVx dreadnaught wrote:Apolyon I wrote:xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Last proper targets we got were a couple of RR domi's (one navy issue one standard) in a C3... not that it's a big deal or anything.
But as you say C1, I remember me and a corpy did go into a C1 witha pair of Assault Frigs and scored a Rook kill... I know, nothing special, but was more for the fun of it.
only killing that much and you call incursion risk-free, what a shame in a C5 farming fleet, the only logistics ship is carrier which if he dc, the whole fleet with 2,3 lokis, 5,6 dread all die in seconds. while your incursion fleet has 3 200m logis. isnt it risk-free But isn't the reward from your C5 wormhole sites a lot higher than incursion running? The risk does match the reward. Because in a decent incursion fleet before you could male about 100 mill an hour... any higher and you were in one of those "elite" fleets. Yes 3 logi's but most spend more on their logi ship so they can get more out of it. To get all 4 reps being T2 my guardian has a Bailey plate on it, which is more than 500 mill on it's own. And still if those logi's go down you can be losing up to 8 deadspace and faction fit Vindicators, Nightmares, Machariels... And they will all die in seconds if the logi's are down... How often do your fleets come under attack? I imagine being in your fortress of a WH system that you have scouts every where not to mention Warp disruption bubbles on any holes while your fleets are active. Because the Incursion fleets are out in the open for anyone to attempt a logi gank. And they do try, with some success.
The logistics of running security is effort, usually people are paid for that alone. Second, even then people lose ships because of siege and triage, there are cap kills daily.
This is why no one has any problems with LS or NS incursions having the same or greater payouts as old incursions, because people have the ability to kill your ****.
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Trinity Six
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:36:00 -
[132] - Quote
OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT wrote:
It was in the patch notes that yes it would be changed. Someone took to heart that they would mirror the results from SiSi and now that they aren't they are about to implode because it doesn't match. Please continue to QQ Moar.
Learn to read: http://community.eveonline.com/en/inferno/features/
Quote:Incursion Iteration The rewards and challenges of Sansha invasion fleets in Incursion content have been revisited to better balance challenge and reward. Vanguard invasions will now take a bit longer, while the time to complete an Assault invasions will be reduced some. In addition, the ISK reward of Vanguard invasions has been changed to bring the reward in line with the difficulty/risk. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:42:00 -
[133] - Quote
xVx dreadnaught wrote: But isn't the reward from your C5 wormhole sites a lot higher than incursion running?
The risk does match the reward. Because in a decent incursion fleet before you could male about 100 mill an hour... any higher and you were in one of those "elite" fleets.
Yes 3 logi's but most spend more on their logi ship so they can get more out of it. To get all 4 reps being T2 my guardian has a Bailey plate on it, which is more than 500 mill on it's own.
And still if those logi's go down you can be losing up to 8 deadspace and faction fit Vindicators, Nightmares, Machariels... And they will all die in seconds if the logi's are down...
How often do your fleets come under attack? I imagine being in your fortress of a WH system that you have scouts every where not to mention Warp disruption bubbles on any holes while your fleets are active.
Because the Incursion fleets are out in the open for anyone to attempt a logi gank. And they do try, with some success.
yes the reward is higher because people can ambush, jump us not because the silly carrier pilot can get dced. we don't consider it's risk, period.
noone fly in wh talks about their logistcs can dc, they only talk about the real risk which is people ambush when running sleeper sites. |
Dame Judi Dench
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 21:28:00 -
[134] - Quote
My 2-ó: suspending CONCORD in high-sec incursions by itself probably would have been enough. At the very least, the killmails would be hilarious and the tears delicious. Beyond that,just decrease the payouts for VGs. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
881
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 00:42:00 -
[135] - Quote
AstarothPrime wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:
Where did I cry nerf/unnerf? I'll be nice to you and let you off with just that.
Actually IDK why I commented on your post... My apologies, ment to simple reply to thread... I. No worries. Just to be clear, I was pointing out at how ironic some of the posts were, that's all.
Astaroth is my goto in SC |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 01:33:00 -
[136] - Quote
Liliana Rahl wrote:When are you people going to learn that rats, no matter the form, do not constitute risk? Once they stop killing titans. :p |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 01:41:00 -
[137] - Quote
Gonzo TheGreat wrote:
Also, the amount of shinies in your fleet means it is risk free. If it wasn't then you wouldn't put that much money into one ship that is about to die any minute.
You logic is flawed. And titans proof this. Why would anyone using a blap titan if it could die any minute ;-)
And so far I have not seen anyone claim that VGs are great risk. Actually shiny ships even increase the risk, not as much as they increase the income, but they really do, because you become a regular gank targets in shiny ships and more important:
If something goes wrong the lose is greater; you are risking more, even when the risk that something bad happens is low.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
117
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 01:43:00 -
[138] - Quote
To those advocating the removal of concord from incursion systems:
Do you honestly think that people will still do them? I'm seriously asking. To me it seems pants on head ******** to go to a series of (effectively) lowsec systems with such easy access to highsec and almost guaranteed to be camped to hell. Anyone with half a brain who still had any interest in them would probably be better off doing the incursions in normal lowsec than trying to PvE in the gankfest those locations would become.
This is of course ignoring the technical difficulty which could be involved in making sec status and penalties dynamic in the first place. Add to that the implications on highsec route plotting/auto piloting. The concept seems simple but I'd be willing to bet the implementation is anything but. |
Gonzo TheGreat
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:19:00 -
[139] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:Gonzo TheGreat wrote:
Also, the amount of shinies in your fleet means it is risk free. If it wasn't then you wouldn't put that much money into one ship that is about to die any minute.
You logic is flawed. And titans proof this. Why would anyone using a blap titan if it could die any minute ;-) And so far I have not seen anyone claim that VGs are great risk. Actually shiny ships even increase the risk, not as much as they increase the income, but they really do, because you become a regular gank targets in shiny ships and more important: If something goes wrong the lose is greater; you are risking more, even when the risk that something bad happens is low.
Because those titans are not solely for PvE ? because they can turn the tide of a battle ? because they are actually USED in PVP to defend their territory. They are not just fancy POS decorations ! Because as someone I know said, with a titan every hour is "Hot-Drop O' Clock" (a.k.a. Bridge). And it goes on and on ... !
If shinier ships just increase the risk and not just the income, then your logic is flawed. Why put so much shiny on it ! |
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:49:00 -
[140] - Quote
Good god some of you idiots actually think that the "smart AI" rats in Incursions constitute "risk." |
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Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 04:40:00 -
[141] - Quote
Liliana Rahl wrote:Good god some of you idiots actually think that the "smart AI" rats in Incursions constitute "risk."
Go into a site by yourself then, after all its no "risk". |
Trinity Six
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 04:56:00 -
[142] - Quote
ITT: pubbies think hisec incursions are high-risk
News at 11. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:16:00 -
[143] - Quote
Gonzo TheGreat wrote:Tenris Anis wrote:
And so far I have not seen anyone claim that VGs are great risk. Actually shiny ships even increase the risk, not as much as they increase the income, but they really do, because you become a regular gank targets in shiny ships and more important:
If something goes wrong the lose is greater; you are risking more, even when the risk that something bad happens is low.
If shinier ships just increase the risk and not just the income, then your logic is flawed. Why put so much shiny on it !
There you go, I even made it bold for you, my logic seems just fine. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
84
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:20:00 -
[144] - Quote
I don't even mind the VG nerf...they were supposed to be entry-level sites, so it's working as intended now. But why the hell did they nerf HQs? |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:21:00 -
[145] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:To those advocating the removal of concord from incursion systems:
Do you honestly think that people will still do them? I'm seriously asking. To me it seems pants on head ******** to go to a series of (effectively) lowsec systems with such easy access to highsec and almost guaranteed to be camped to hell. Anyone with half a brain who still had any interest in them would probably be better off doing the incursions in normal lowsec than trying to PvE in the gankfest those locations would become.
Yes. A low sec pocket right in the middle of high sec, with ammunition available, safe travel to the system and very good rewards for doing them? I am sure they would be played. Hey, even low sec incursions were done before the patch. I do not think people would keep using shiny ships, but the low sec bonus is big enough to just use cheap t1 ships. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
84
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:27:00 -
[146] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:Yes. A low sec pocket right in the middle of high sec, with ammunition available, safe travel to the system and very good rewards for doing them? I am sure they would be played by griefers. Hey, even low sec incursions were done by TEST before the patch. I do not think people would keep using shiny ships, but the low sec bonus is big enough to just use cheap t1 ships.
fixed
Moving it to lowsec makes no sense, but making those systems into lowsec makes even less sense. It would be a constant disruption to trade routes, and you'd have people log off in highsec only to find themselves camped in station in a lowsec system when they relog, or worse, log in from space and land in the middle of a gatecamp. Not so bad if you're in a BC....pretty awful if you're in a freighter or somesuch. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:31:00 -
[147] - Quote
Cobalt Rookits wrote:Liliana Rahl wrote:Good god some of you idiots actually think that the "smart AI" rats in Incursions constitute "risk." Go into a site by yourself then, after all its no "risk". good god, gtf out of hisec |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
84
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:43:00 -
[148] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:Cobalt Rookits wrote:Liliana Rahl wrote:Good god some of you idiots actually think that the "smart AI" rats in Incursions constitute "risk." Go into a site by yourself then, after all its no "risk". good god, gtf out of hisec Because incursions exist solely in highsec...
Also, at some points, incoming dps in specific incursion sites can top 10,000 incoming dps, peaking at about 13k in a tcrc. You don't have numbers like that and not have a bit of risk, especially if you're a logi. It might not be other players shooting at you, but you're still depending on a group of logis who sometimes need machine-like efficiency to keep you alive. The same risk as running through gatecamps in nullsec? Not so much. But compared to ratting in your thanatos with nothing but blues for 30 jumps? I'm not so sure. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:56:00 -
[149] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:Apolyon I wrote:Cobalt Rookits wrote:Liliana Rahl wrote:Good god some of you idiots actually think that the "smart AI" rats in Incursions constitute "risk." Go into a site by yourself then, after all its no "risk". good god, gtf out of hisec Because incursions exist solely in highsec... Also, at some points, incoming dps in specific incursion sites can top 10,000 incoming dps, peaking at about 13k in a tcrc. You don't have numbers like that and not have a bit of risk, especially if you're a logi. It might not be other players shooting at you, but you're still depending on a group of logis who sometimes need machine-like efficiency to keep you alive. The same risk as running through gatecamps in nullsec? Not so much. But compared to ratting in your thanatos with nothing but blues for 30 jumps? I'm not so sure.
last time I tried warp a marauder into escalated C5 site on sisi, it get instant poped.
and your incursion is ****, you only need 3 logis??
we have to use triage carrier to keep the whole fleet alive and the sleeper has enough neut to neut out the carrier, lucky me that they only did it once, not so lucky that I lost that carrier, but hey, I don't go on forum and whine about that as risk.
so ya, incursion is very risky
and fyi, I dont live in nullsec, I live in wh where ppl don't get aggro timer and can jump after as soon as you jump and bubble the **** up
plus you won't see a fleet jumping on you until a cloaky T3 decloak and point you |
xVx dreadnaught
The Dude's Interstellar Enterprizes Quixotic Hegemony
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 07:10:00 -
[150] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote: yes the reward is higher because people can ambush, jump us not because the silly carrier pilot can get dced. we don't consider it's risk, period.
noone fly in wh talks about their logistcs can dc, they only talk about the real risk which is people ambush when running sleeper sites.
Yes, logistics DCing isn't that common an error. But when you think of how many sites that are run with an incursion fleet to those of an alliance organised C5 fleet.
I've heard some certain well known groups won't let you fly Triage carrier for them unless the spec of your machine meets their minimum standard, even so asking that you have your eve install on a SSD. So yes, with Alliances and corp fleets it's much easier to enforce a doctrin set up. And if you know one guy has a fairly unstable connection you just don't let him fly the carrier...
But in incursions you can't always vet your pilots so carefully, running many sites continually, you just need a DC in one bad situation to cause a real problem.
I've been in fleet when we've had logi's DC and had several narrow escapes, usually because the spare hi-slots on our BS have additional logistics support. I've even been in a fleet where I lost a Bhaalgorn and a Paladin in incursions, but it doesn't really bother me because incursions paid for those loses and then some. Just like your C5 sites will pay for your loses and then some.
In case you don't get the point I'm making... don't be telling other people they can't shamelessly farm isk when you know that wormhole farming in your C5 is a lower risk:reward ratio. |
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