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Adrien Bastalle
Gallente Veto. Logistics
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46
Originally by: Kathryn Dougans
http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html
Web design by 2advaced???
http://2advanced.com/
2advanced are heavily overrated tbh.
--- Awaiting Ambulation.... |
Shevar
Minmatar Target Practice incorporated
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 5*5*5 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500.
Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined.
We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM).
Not to sound to pessimistic but we've heard that one before --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46
Originally by: Kathryn Dougans
http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html
Web design by 2advaced???
http://2advanced.com/
A 2advanced work? A gaming site with 100% of site functionality available on a single easy to find row and no longer than 2 clicks into the architecture? Does not compute!!! ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
shuckstar
Gallente Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:05:00 -
[34]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 5*5*5 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500.
Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined.
We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM).
LOL how many times have i seen that word soon since i started playing of you guys .
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 5*5*5 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500.
Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined.
We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM).
Hmm, something is odd here.
So you say that each of the subsystems(Propulsion, defensive, offensive, etc) will have 3 different types each?
Because the math(5^3) does give 125. But that assume there's just 3 subsystems(Propulsion, defensive and offensive) with 5 different each.
But if there's 5 subsystems with 3 different modules(for a lack of better word) each, that's 3^5 according to my math, giving 243 ships for each race.
I must assume the latter is the case in terms of consistency, since it would then be the case that the last 2 subsystems then are fixed until 1.1. It would be the same amount of work(3 * 5 = 5 * 3) however it would leave out the last 2 tiers of subsystems rather than the last the last 2 sets of full tiers.
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Finnroth
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones The problem once again is "being nice" and letting people know what's coming.
Most of the people would be orgasmic about the features that are coming, but because it was speculated(a concept unknown to fans) that there was more, now suddenly Apocrypha is "bad"?
I wonder about that. You know, most of the new stuff (Tech 3 Cruiser, Wormholes, Wormhole Space, the industry side of it and the new AI) revolves around the ships beeing worth it to fly and to construct. The first obstacle was the SP loss, which i am not sure, how it will turn out, but i don't see it necessarily as a problem. It actually *gets* into a problem when those ships offer only limited capabilitys to modify. Yes there're theoreticaly 125 options per race, but a lot of those combos don't make much sense, and the other stuff is often just plain worse then tech 2 HACs/Recons. Part 4 and 5 *might* have had changed that, but that would have heavily depended on the additional stats, yet i would have been quite positive about it.
See for yourself if you wish.
That alltogether leads to the next problem - why go to wormhole space when the stuff you get is not really needed? Sure it's fun out of novelty at first, but then you realize your ally is under attack, you need money und useful ships to defend your own assets, and everything gets back to how it was. If things turn out this way, a mayor part of this expansion will get less attention than it deserves (i truly like the idea of this kind of exploration, but it's heavily bottlenecked in the usefulness of T3 Cruisers)...
P.S. Will there be new ship explosion and missile effects, or are those postponed aswell with the rest of missing effects? Just curious.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:22:00 -
[37]
Well, EVE is "do what you want" isn't it?
This brigs more "do what you want" options to the table.
If T3 was end all ships to use, it would limit your freedom.
Now, you can keep on flying and doing what you do, and those who DO want to go to Wormspace and get the amterials and sell them etc etc, can.
I'm in the process of fitting a rokh with projectile weapons and armor tank to make it akin to the Galactica. Is it good? Probably not. Is it optimal? Hell no. Is it fun? Abso-flarning-lutely!
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:26:00 -
[38]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/02/2009 12:27:03
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In the initial release of Apocrypha on March 10th, three subsystem types will be available per subsystem per race. Number of possible permutation per race = 5*5*5 = 125. Total number of new ship permutations in game = 4 (races) * 125 = 500.
Fourth variation will be released in Apocrypha 1.1. Release date to be determined.
We have a fixed amount of resources working on the subsystems. We decided to opt for quality rather than quantity for the March 10th release, thus scoped down to have better looking graphics and are introducing more assets later once we're finished with the graphis. Meaning SOON(TM).
Not to sound to pessimistic but we've heard that one before
like
we want to release factional warfare now instead of later so we're leaving rewards and mission reward balanced for a later date. Don't worry it's coming.
also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference.
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Antonia Frak
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:31:00 -
[39]
lol, first is the epic mission arcs (just one, and for newbies), now this. And CCP expects us to make a 10/10 of Apocrypha "the biggest ever" expansion?
What will be the next over-hyped feature that is going to drop?
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Finnroth
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:32:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Finnroth on 25/02/2009 12:33:37 @ Sheriff Jones
The question is, "who will buy them".
You know to give options you need to make them appealing, they don't need to be absolutly ubar, they just need to be different (thats the whole point of the design anyway) and being highly customizable.
On another note, i seem to remember you are a PvE player, aren't ya? Thats not a problem at all, fit your ship like a Galactica all you want. It's just my believe that those T3 ships aren't neccesarily made for the regular PvE player. You have to kill NPCs that are supposed to be close to PCs to construct them, and cruisers aren't known to be the mighty PvE masters (and neither are there stats on sisi). All the other players (like in PvP) are limited in their options to use and fit a ships as the current meta game allows, and also by the relative effectivness in comparison with other ships. And thats where T3 Cruiser fail, sadly.
It's not really the problem of knowing what's to come, it's the expectation that gets blasted to unpresedented hights just to be crushed closely after the feature cut. This expansion is big, it might be the biggest to day, but all that is making it this huge depends on the sucess of T3 cruisers - which makes it, as i said above, into a critically bottleneck.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Antonia Frak lol, first is the epic mission arcs (just one, and for newbies), now this. And CCP expects us to make a 10/10 of Apocrypha "the biggest ever" expansion?
What will be the next over-hyped feature that is going to drop?
to be honest, tht one mission is about... 100 missions totl with over 10-20 endings.
you'll have to run it about 20 times before you see it all.
and to top it off running an epic mission arc will likely take 4-5 hours.
so that's like a month of content in one mission. not bad. hopefully they will release a new mission every month.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:40:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 25/02/2009 12:40:39
Originally by: LaVista Vista Hmm, something is odd here.
So you say that each of the subsystems(Propulsion, defensive, offensive, etc) will have 3 different types each?
Because the math(5^3) does give 125. But that assume there's just 3 subsystems(Propulsion, defensive and offensive) with 5 different each.
But if there's 5 subsystems with 3 different modules(for a lack of better word) each, that's 3^5 according to my math, giving 243 ships for each race.
I must assume the latter is the case in terms of consistency, since it would then be the case that the last 2 subsystems then are fixed until 1.1. It would be the same amount of work(3 * 5 = 5 * 3) however it would leave out the last 2 tiers of subsystems rather than the last the last 2 sets of full tiers.
Vista you fool! This is a concern/complaint thread you should never point out mistakes that make CCP (target of complaint) look better when corrected.
But yea, seems to me that he got the math backwards as well. Five slots with three options each would be 3ê5 making it 243 per race at launch.
Problem that arises with delaying the last two will be the whine-storm when they are released as they will almost certainly require the first three to be tweaked in order to maintain balance .. no-one likes their ships to be 'nerfed'.
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Exlegion
Caldari New Light
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: LaVista Vista But if there's 5 subsystems with 3 different modules(for a lack of better word) each, that's 3^5 according to my math, giving 243 ships for each race.
^^ This is what I thought. But the dev comment threw me off as well (5^3).
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:44:00 -
[44]
I am still not convinced.
The Slot layout for some of the ships are only good for comedy fittings.
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:45:00 -
[45]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Shevar
Not to sound to pessimistic but we've heard that one before
like
we want to release factional warfare now instead of later so we're leaving rewards and mission reward balanced for a later date. Don't worry it's coming.
also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference.
Oops! Ouch. Stopping kicking the dev's against their legs. They're only human you know?
Yes, yes, yes, I know the promises made where bigger then their eyes, but what do you want, everything in Apochribba and falling apart the moment a drone sneezes or almost everything working more or less how it should (am a bit careful here seeing CCP's track record).
What they now have is new tools and stuff in that when it goes live can be tested the hard way and will make it easier for them to add the missing pieces in later on.
And yes, you are right I remember the promise of rewards etc. for FW being made. Just remember they work now different then before. It might be in a sprint right now....
Originally by: AkRoYeR
...the beauty of EvE. You have to live on the edge all the time. If you don't stay frosty, you will die!
Best game ever!
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones The problem once again is "being nice" and letting people know what's coming.
Most of the people would be orgasmic about the features that are coming, but because it was speculated(a concept unknown to fans) that there was more, now suddenly Apocrypha is "bad"?
An official announcement at fanfest is hardly speculation though.
It's pretty moot anyway since it'll probably take longer for T3 components to make their way to the marketplace than it will for CCP to put out the remaining eight. __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.25 12:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: MotherMoon also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference.
Last i heard it was 4000, not 13.000. But, these numbers are irrelevant.
The fact is, without any info, people would rabble for the lack of info.(as they did) With info, that IS speculations when concerning features that are not done yet(there are unseen problems and things don't always go smooth), people rable if they are not 100% correct.
So, either CCP stop giving pre-info at ALL, or people understand that pre-info is an estimate.
If they had said "New player mission arc, 500 new ships to start with, Wormspace etc", what ARE coming, people would be happy.
They simply aren't happy 'cause reality hit.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Pattern Clarc
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Posted - 2009.02.25 13:08:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 25/02/2009 13:10:34 Unless i'm reading this wrong, we're only getting 1 epic mission arc for release...
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object Edited by: CCP Big Dumb Object on 24/02/2009 18:08:08 Edited by: CCP Big Dumb Object on 24/02/2009 16:59:20
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 24/02/2009 16:38:28 So, are you saying EPIC missions are going to be around to introduce newbies into Eve and of low difficulty? Or are you just talking about this specific mission?
This particular Epic Arc, titled "Blood Stained Stars," is designed with an eye towards newer players, yes. Our content development schedule was aggressive to say the least. It was decided one large arc was a better test ground and show piece as are tools came online than several smaller arcs. A new player focused arc made the most sense.
However, "Blood-Stained Stars" is but the first of many Epic Arcs to come. Epic Arcs are a long term feature set for us. It is starting humbly enough, but it will grow. We plan to design Epic Arcs across as many difficulties, factions, play styles, and whatever else we can think of all over EVE. There will be much more.
____
My Blog Is Awesome
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.25 13:16:00 -
[49]
Even if there are only 3 or 4 "optimal" and 5-6 more "viable-but-niche" combos for each race, that more than doubles the number of >T1 cruisers. Yeah more lego would be great, but I think we'll have enough to keep us entertained for a while tbh.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.02.25 13:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: MotherMoon also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference.
Last i heard it was 4000, not 13.000. But, these numbers are irrelevant.
It was 12,500 (5^5 * 4) and is now down to 972 (3^5 * 4). So both of you are wrong. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Antonia Frak
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.02.25 13:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Antonia Frak on 25/02/2009 13:41:27
The fact is that CCP took the way of over hyping features and we become their fans and over inflated expansion rates around the internet. EvE is the best mmo, and CCP the best mmo developer, but I think they are letting the marketing guys rule the house.
-Trinity hyped a graphical update, and it was just half of it. Now they are marketing Apocrypha with the other half, hilarious.
-Quantum Rise hyped an industrial update and it was just a ship (and alchemy if you put science into industry).
-Apocrypha hyped the T3 expansion, and it is going to be half of it. Also hyped the epic arc missions and it's going to be just 1!
-Also Apocrypha box hypes some kind of "VIP pass" that is the already existing buddy pass! also the guide is the evelopedia!
You can do honest hype, but this is not honest. I'm not a cult follower of CCP. Trolls, fans or neutrals aren't either, we are just customers, there is no way we should "justify" this, it's ridiculous.
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Muscaat
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Adrien Bastalle
Originally by: p0pup7arge7
Web design by 2advaced???
http://2advanced.com/
2advanced are heavily overrated tbh.
Web page content only accessible through Flash = fail IMO.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:03:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: MotherMoon also jones, the fact that it's 500 instead of 13,000 is a big difference.
Last i heard it was 4000, not 13.000. But, these numbers are irrelevant.
It was 12,500 (5^5 * 4) and is now down to 972 (3^5 * 4). So both of you are wrong.
lol the dev was wrong then :P
anyways, trust me jones I know what your saying. and I honestly hve no issues with it NORMALLY. but this feels like the only point of the ship is being removed.
it's not much different than a tech 2 cruiser now. I know that only 2 less systems seems like a small number but as you can see, it's a HUGE difference.
nd I'm ok with them taking longer.... I just want some sort of promise ti will happen.
anyways, this is one case where I honestly think the devs need to think it through. But yeah it's all good I know I would whine if they never gave out that other number.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:13:00 -
[54]
Hmm, let me ask it this way;
If you had the choice, would you rather the expansion came with all the bells and whistles, or on time?
Would you be willing to give another month for the expansion to come?
IF you had to choose, would you rather have less content which is "perfected", or more content that is half-donkeyd together?
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Genya Arikaido
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:15:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans Stuff
Sounds like Public Affairs waffle to mean that you're trimming features to meet the deadline. Further simplification: "Yes, you get 2 less subsystems because we're rushing Apocrypha to release."
Help me move to Iceland!
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Khornne
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:15:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Adrien Bastalle
Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 25/02/2009 01:52:46
Originally by: Kathryn Dougans
http://www.eveonline.com/apocrypha/index.html
Web design by 2advaced???
http://2advanced.com/
2advanced are heavily overrated tbh.
You're better, we know it.
-- si vis pacem, para bellum If you wish for peace, prepare for war.
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Antonia Frak
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:29:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Antonia Frak on 25/02/2009 14:29:34
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Hmm, let me ask it this way;
If you had the choice, would you rather the expansion came with all the bells and whistles, or on time?
Would you be willing to give another month for the expansion to come?
IF you had to choose, would you rather have less content which is "perfected", or more content that is half-donkeyd together?
It's not a matter of chosing, it's a matter of how are you selling the product. The real question is why over-hyping. If you hype honestly, users get expected content at the expected time. If you over-hype, users get less than expected content at the expected (or not) time. That is case in the last year of two in CCP and it's the usual trend in mmon industry (superior marketing for inferior products).
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:29:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Misanth on 25/02/2009 14:30:51
Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 25/02/2009 13:41:27
The fact is that CCP took the way of over hyping features and we become their fans and over inflated expansion rates around the internet. EvE is the best mmo, and CCP the best mmo developer, but I think they are letting the marketing guys rule the house.
-Trinity hyped a graphical update, and it was just half of it. Now they are marketing Apocrypha with the other half, hilarious.
-Quantum Rise hyped an industrial update and it was just a ship (and alchemy if you put science into industry).
-Apocrypha hyped the T3 expansion, and it is going to be half of it. Also hyped the epic arc missions and it's going to be just 1!
-Also Apocrypha box hypes some kind of "VIP pass" that is the already existing buddy pass! also the guide is the evelopedia!
You can do honest hype, but this is not honest. I'm not a cult follower of CCP. Trolls, fans or neutrals aren't either, we are just customers, there is no way we should "justify" this, it's ridiculous.
Pretty nice summary.
This is definately the best MMO out there, and the devs got alot of respect for the stuff they are delivering, it's impressive (innovative and pretty good balancing overall compared to other games).
But their marketing department guys are just off the rocks over and over and over and over.. I kinda get sick at repeating this, but the achilles heel for CCP for the past, I dunno, 3+ years the very least? is just quite possibly.. just the 2nd worst to the SW:G team, in the whole gaming industry, forever.
I just wish the top dogs at CCP would give their employees some respect. If they started communicate better with their customers, the devs and staff wouldn't look like idiots because they have fail guys at the top, and/or marketing.
Noone needs to get fired either, they do a good job, they just need to learn to communicate. Stop overhype. Stop lie and change things. Stop developing things in secret (like the ranked duelling arena, wtf CCP?) and trying to sell that concept to investors.. betraying their playerbase and game concept as a whole.
Enough dirt throwing at CCP from me for now, but I guess the chestbeating overbelif that went through the Icelandic economy, also goes through their companies. Something smells fishy. Pun intended.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:30:00 -
[59]
Pity. I was hoping that last 2 subsystem offer something more suitable for missionrunning than first three. Unless they changed in the past few days tech 3 cruisers will be able to offer performance of cerberus or drake in 1 bill hull and SP loss when going pop.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.25 14:35:00 -
[60]
Originally by: MotherMoon [like
we want to release factional warfare now instead of later so we're leaving rewards and mission reward balanced for a later date. Don't worry it's coming.
Probably cause they realized that it was ******ed to need to bribe people to PvP.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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