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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Ralitge boyter
Minmatar BrightSpark Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:07:00 -
[31]
Please don't tell me that the idea is really as it states on the expansion features page, having to hop across may different systems and visiting all 4 empires... mission running is only useful if one can do it as a pass time while waiting for other things to do, others to come online. Making a player spend a long time hopping from one system to the next and then having no better pay then the current missions makes very little sens to me. Sure it is fun once or twice, but every arch is just another part 1 of xx mission and the goal behind these missions is to make ISK and some how help the faction you are fighting for. Now helping the faction doesn't seem to be part of the deal so the only thing left is making ISK and that is exactly what these arcs with their many hops will prevent from happening. Since all systems are the same the only difference being a different color in the back ground there is really no point to dragging your ship all over the place just to get less income (more jumps between missions is less time doing missions, thus less income).
I like the idea but arcs should be contained in smaller locations then the once hinted at on the expansion features page, if that is the idea for all of them please stop now as it is just a waist of time for all involved. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:12:00 -
[32]
The features page is only referring to the "Blood-Stained Stars." Other arcs will have as large (or small) of a scope as we make them.
Epic Arcs are about stories; that's what we will provide. Yes, you will get rewards, some of them might be OMGAWESOME, some may be typical. But whatever it is, we will provide you with a story and context.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:20:00 -
[33]
Quote: they will tend to give out cool new toys (or at least exceptional rewards) at the ends of chapters and, of course, at the end of each complete arc.
Watch them be like cosmos offerings which are like totally horrible mods. 1bil isk says they wont be giving away Gold Magnates and Guardian-Vexors
Quote: Additionally, we've introduced the ability to complete and accept missions remotely, rather than forcing players to fly all the way back to their agent's station to report in.
This is interesting.
1. Completing mission can be done now simply by docking at any station and then turning it in. Exception being cosmos and couriers where you have to be there. 2. Being able to accept missions remotely would be cool. So I went on sisi to check.
Seems not...
"Sounds good. Please stop by so we can formalize the mission contract."
Quote: (I mean, this is a setting that relies on FTL communications, right? Yet I can't call my agent? Well, no longer.)
I can finalize a trade contract in space. Why I need to goto my agent does seem silly. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: CCP Jasonitas The features page is only referring to the "Blood-Stained Stars." Other arcs will have as large (or small) of a scope as we make them.
Epic Arcs are about stories; that's what we will provide. Yes, you will get rewards, some of them might be OMGAWESOME, some may be typical. But whatever it is, we will provide you with a story and context.
sigh
please stop calling them epic arcs. from what I saw on Sisi its as epic as toast.
Yes I agree more missions are better. Yes I agree that finaly figureing out how to include If-then-Else logic to storylines is an improvment so that at least its not randomly giving you the same mission three times in a row. and yes I hope to see more of them.
But I learned to tune out industry buzzspeak a long time ago when i saw a game dev describe the facial hair customimsation they had as revolutionary.(you could pick the color and width of the beard!!!!! Set it wide enough and it might actualy peek through the helmet your character wears 24-7!!!!!!!
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:25:00 -
[35]
Remote completion is an option available to us, not a default setting. It's not quite an epic option, but it is revolutionarily epic-like.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: CCP Jasonitas Remote completion is an option available to us, not a default setting. It's not quite an epic option, but it is revolutionarily epic-like.
ok let me get the cattleprod.
seriously its like the Dev speak drinking game around here. every time they use a buzz word take a shot!
Ok we get that your proud of the new mission threads and that you can now use if then else logic to make it more interesting. And we do want more of this.
but shesh! enogh with the Devbuzzspeak! Im out of Bannanas to make the morning after cure!
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:49:00 -
[37]
Also looking at the new agent screen now that I made it to my agent. I like it. Saves me from clicking more info CONSTANTLY.
I notice a new button "delay" but it's purpose is basically non-existent. If you simply hit the X and close the convo with the agent. That is delay. Kind of pointless to add delay in there. But whatever I guess. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Kiotsu Adler
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:50:00 -
[38]
We will see new arcs integrating new "AI" in the future? Some of them will be desgined for group? Will rewards scalate according to that? etc.
Epic fail on delivering though, I think it's better to not promise stuff you can't deliver later. But hey, every game developer does this for "unknown" (hype) reasons.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance
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Posted - 2009.02.25 19:03:00 -
[39]
Some simple questions:
Is there a limit on the number of times you can run an Epic Arc (noting that COSMOS could only be run once)?
How often can you run an Epic Arc?
Are there controls in place to prevent farming of some of these Epic Arcs?
How do Epic Arcs affect factional and/or corporation standings?
How is the reward system going to work? Simplistic LP/Cash/Item payouts like normal missions (with quick-completion bonuses)? (I rather hope not)
How do you choose different branches within the arc? ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 19:13:00 -
[40]
Edited by: CCP Jasonitas on 25/02/2009 19:15:23
Quote: Some simple questions: Is there a limit on the number of times you can run an Epic Arc (noting that COSMOS could only be run once)? How often can you run an Epic Arc? Are there controls in place to prevent farming of some of these Epic Arcs? How do Epic Arcs affect factional and/or corporation standings? How is the reward system going to work? Simplistic LP/Cash/Item payouts like normal missions (with quick-completion bonuses)? (I rather hope not) How do you choose different branches within the arc? Will these Epic Arcs be taking us into player owned 0.0 space (like some of the exploration missions did) or try and take us into potentially unreachable locations in 0.0 (like trying to go to pirate faction space)? Can you detail what, if any, changes were made to the current mission system?
All fantastic questions. Most of them have been answered in another thread here.
(Not trying to avoid your question, just trying to be as efficient as possible in answering forum questions while still trying to get my work done.)
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Fedurium
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Posted - 2009.02.25 20:21:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Fedurium on 25/02/2009 20:22:20 Hi,
As i was reading the blog i read the following: "Shortly after Apocrypha, now that our new tools and development processes are in good working order, you can expect lots of new Epic Arcs for various factions and security levels to appear on a regular basis." Does this mean that you will be updaten/creating new missions at a more regualer base so it is possible to update with "minor patches" or is it still based on the two expansions a year?
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Disteeler
Segunda Fundacion
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Posted - 2009.02.25 20:29:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Disteeler on 25/02/2009 20:29:03
"we consider this single new Epic Arc to be our greatest victory for the release. "
Way to go CCP. Less is more.
Reality check is in order. And for the love of god, drop over-hyping expansions.
"Keep pumping $ and Ç guys!"
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 20:29:00 -
[43]
Quote: Does this mean that you will be updaten/creating new missions at a more regualer base so it is possible to update with "minor patches" or is it still based on the two expansions a year?
We can insert new Epic Arcs at patches, not just at full-fledged expansions.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.25 20:46:00 -
[44]
wait I'm confused... you said 7 chapters... but... are they always the same? or do they have whole different ending like promised? So two players have have totally different stories?
or what?
I hope it's not like ones of those games where you think you have some control but the ending is always the same :(
can you give us some sort of idea? like a a nice drawing or something?
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Bethulsunamen
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:07:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Bethulsunamen on 25/02/2009 21:08:03 The blog sort of says two wierd things..
1. It says that finally you can accept and finish missions remotely by calling your agent, yet at the end of that sentence it says, but most missions wont allow that yet. So essentially, this feature is what your team has been working on, but it doesnt REALLY exist, yet?
2. It says that the Epic mission arcs are another thing you've been working on, and blah blah awesome stuff (i agree), but then at the end, same thing. But only 1 at release, the new player arc... So the main feature you've been working on, is not REALLY in either, just an extention of the New Player Experience?
Not trying to pass judgement here, nor am i trying to say that you dont deserve your salary :P I just find it strange that most features & "stuff" your team worked on isnt even fully (or half, or one third) completed. The new mission screen is cool, but frankly not really a feature.
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:22:00 -
[46]
Edited by: CCP Jasonitas on 25/02/2009 21:24:00 Edited by: CCP Jasonitas on 25/02/2009 21:23:11
Quote: 1. It says that finally you can accept and finish missions remotely by calling your agent, yet at the end of that sentence it says, but most missions wont allow that yet. So essentially, this feature is what your team has been working on, but it doesnt REALLY exist, yet?
"Blood-Stained Stars" will have remote completions in it. We did not go back and put this feature in all of the older missions because, well, we didn't have the time, and it's not always necessary. Remote completion is yet another tool we can use for missions, not something we always will use. Although, personally, I really like that I don't have to keep ping-ponging with agents. Remote complete fits nicely in the Epic Arc system, as well as other mission types.
Quote: 2. It says that the Epic mission arcs are another thing you've been working on, and blah blah awesome stuff (i agree), but then at the end, same thing. But only 1 at release, the new player arc... So the main feature you've been working on, is not REALLY in either, just an extention of the New Player Experience?
We've primarily been working on the tools and the design of the Epic Mission System. I think CCP Molock used this metaphor before, but I'll use it here: It's like working on a car's engine, transmission, and chassis while you're racing it. For that reason, we only focused on one arc in order for us to hammer out all of the kinks in the system. We aimed this at newer players, though not every Epic Arc will be aimed at new players. In essence, the main feature we have been working on is the tools to create these arcs. In that sense, it will be done and ready for Apocrypha. But if you're talking about adding Epic Arcs into EVE as the feature, well, that 'll never be done because we'll keep pumping Epic Arcs out for forseeable future.
Quote: Not trying to pass judgement here, nor am i trying to say that you dont deserve your salary :P I just find it strange that most features & "stuff" your team worked on isnt even fully (or half, or one third) completed. The new mission screen is cool, but frankly not really a feature.
The feature is done. It's a very subtle feature because a lot of it is backend stuff that we, the content devs, will be working with. But think of it as a massive doughnut filled with limitless potential. We have the doughnut made, but you you're only seeing it from one side and only get one bite. Eventually, you'll be able to devour it with gusto, filling your playful stomachs with creamy, Epic Arc filling.
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Antonia Frak
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:28:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Antonia Frak on 25/02/2009 21:28:17
In other words, "we rushed the expansion because we ran out of time and we have a deal with Atari for the retail box and so those new players will get the first batch of benefits of all this".
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Mark Shuttleworth
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:30:00 -
[48]
CCP: "Remote completion is an option available to us, not a default setting. It's not quite an epic option, but it is revolutionarily epic-like."
Ok so let me get this right, ccp reserves the right to determine which missions will have the remote-completion option. Now for this first epic mission arc you say that it will span all 4 factions, so lets just say it starts in, oh I don't know, Jita at the end of chapter 1 you find yourself in amarr space, therefore without remote completion we would have to travel back and forth after every single mission to start a new mission, so obviously remote-completion would be extremely useful here.
As well, will remote completion be available, on story line missions, I understand not putting them on normal missions, but storylines are kind of the in between of normal missions and epic missions.
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Garr Anders
Minmatar Thukk U
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:38:00 -
[49]
I sadly don't have time to check this on singularity myself, but are mission decisions in those epic arcs only done and the end/start of a mission or are there decisions to be made during a mission/in space/ on the fly as well ? ----- Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:38:00 -
[50]
Quote: As well, will remote completion be available, on story line missions
Yes, we can use them on any mission type now. We did not have the time to put them on older missions, but we can use remote completion on missions in the future.
Chapters in the "Blood-Stained Stars" are devoted to different Empires. For this Epic Arc, we did not want the players to constantly do 30 jumps, so you will stay in relative close quarters for each chapter. (Jumping between chapters is a different story, but it is unavoidable - New Eden is a big place. But don't worry, it's nothing too onerous.) But yes, in the case you pointed out, remote completion is great to have. It's pretty great to have anyway; I know I enjoy being able to avoid going back to station to finish a mission.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:45:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 25/02/2009 21:45:35 Ill update this for simplicity for anyone else who cares.
Originally by: CCP Jasonitas Edited by: CCP Jasonitas on 25/02/2009 19:15:23
Quote: Some simple questions: Is there a limit on the number of times you can run an Epic Arc (noting that COSMOS could only be run once)? How often can you run an Epic Arc? Are there controls in place to prevent farming of some of these Epic Arcs? 3 Months, OK. Still concerned about farming a bit.
How do Epic Arcs affect factional and/or corporation standings? How is the reward system going to work? Simplistic LP/Cash/Item payouts like normal missions (with quick-completion bonuses)? Not really explained. Can I get more detail?
How do you choose different branches within the arc? Unknown?
Will these Epic Arcs be taking us into player owned 0.0 space (like some of the exploration missions did) or try and take us into potentially unreachable locations in 0.0 (like trying to go to pirate faction space)? Understandable I guess. But there is some concern with missions always sending you to the same place. Similar to how pirates camp Lv 5 mission agents since there are so few; similarly if an arc always sends you to the same system pirates can camp out and wait for their victims to come to them. It would definitely lower any incentive to run that arc. Im not against mission camping, its disappointing to make it too easy to do.
Can you detail what, if any, changes were made to the current mission system? None will be made as far as I can see.
All fantastic questions. Most of them have been answered in another thread here.
(Not trying to avoid your question, just trying to be as efficient as possible in answering forum questions while still trying to get my work done.)
------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Dolgozo Lany
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:55:00 -
[52]
In 2009 please make all missions multi-sequence, direct-player-decision-based missions like the epic ones.
Please always put in random factors: branches how a mission can be followed up. Even the same named mission should have multiple sequences you can complete. This way you can make the 1 hour long Extravaganzas history.
Let's demolish the opportunity for the agent-macro-farmers. More player decision based missions are the way to go. Simple 'Pick missions -> Kill -> Report mission' repetitions are so '90s.
IMO with the whole Epic Arc missions you will show us if the whole mission system can be changed or not.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:56:00 -
[53]
Two other questions while Im thinking about it:
Does the 3 month restart timer start at the beginning of the acceptance of the arc or at completion?
Will there be persistent journal entries to track your arc completions, branches you chose, and when you can try the arc again?
... and one other question stolen from above:
Will there be or can there be non-tangible or bragging rights rewards similar to corporation medals or militia ranks available for completing Epic Arcs? (Something that if you look at someone's profile, it shows they did it) ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:00:00 -
[54]
Quote: Is there a limit on the number of times you can run an Epic Arc (noting that COSMOS could only be run once)? How often can you run an Epic Arc? Are there controls in place to prevent farming of some of these Epic Arcs? 3 Months, OK. Still concerned about farming a bit. Entrance criteria is important because of similar situations to that 3 billion ISK Amarr Cosmos farm trick a while back.
"Blood-Stained Stars" is something like 50-60 missions, with rather normal cash payouts for most of the missions. The rewards won't be tremendous, thus farming won't be terribly efficient (especially since they can only do it once every 3 months or so). If they want to farm the system, there are more lucrative and efficient ways, I'm sure. When we introduce other arcs, particularly higher level ones, it will be much harder to farm those, especially given the 3 month delay.
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:06:00 -
[55]
Quote: Does the 3 month restart timer start at the beginning of the acceptance of the arc or at completion? Will there be persistent journal entries to track your arc completions, branches you chose, and when you can try the arc again?
1. The 3 month restart begins once you complete the quest. Epic missions do not time out, thus you can take your sweet time in completing them (if you wanted to).
2. We have a new tab in the journal called "Epic Mission Journal" that keeps track of your Epic Arc status. It's pretty spiffy looking. Check it out on Sisi, if it's there.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:07:00 -
[56]
um... you guys... cn you still fit in a rework of the agent tab? it would be realy nice to have a folder for these new agents so we donb't get lost and have no idea where we should be going.
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CCP Big Dumb Object
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:13:00 -
[57]
Edited by: CCP Big Dumb Object on 25/02/2009 22:17:17
Originally by: Garr Anders I sadly don't have time to check this on singularity myself, but are mission decisions in those epic arcs only done and the end/start of a mission or are there decisions to be made during a mission/in space/ on the fly as well ?
Current decision/branching points are handled in a new mission type called Agent Interaction. The entire purpose of this mission is to have the player make an explicit choice about the next mission. The Agent Interaction can present up to 5 missions as potential follow ups. We do have missions that can be completed in a number of ways, but these are options that result in the same end result and not a method of branching itself.
How Agent Interactions work: The left panel of the new Agent window will display the Agent Interaction Offer (why you have to chose), followed by the title of each option and the briefing from that choice. Clicking on the title of any given choice will cause the right panel in the window to display the mission details of that mission. A button below the right pane will accept the next mission that is currently displayed above. So if we have an Agent Interaction mission of "Give Me a Dollar", we can have the player choose between "Mine A Dollar's Worth of Veld", "Kill a Dollar's Worth of Pirates", and "Burn a Unrelated Small Village of Orphans". Player Jeb can click on each title, viewing what's expected of him in each option. When he's happy with the mission he's viewing, Jeb can click the accept button and he's on the new mission.
Why we did it like this: There are various reasons we made the choice explicit instead of emergent or hidden, but it generally came down to the persistent nature of an MMO versus a single-player experience. We are huge fans the old space flight sims where slight actions can come back to revist you later. But these games have two major traits that act as a safety net for the player: save management and a finite play experience. With the save system a single player game can throw variables and extra conditions at the player. If a player does not like the result of not completing a bonus objective three missions ago, he can revert to an earlier save. Even if a player has not kept a long list of alternate saves, there is still the option to simply replay the entire campaign after the game is done. Many computer rpg games are an excellent example of this play style. Your first play through you don't have to worry about playing a saint the whole time to get the "good" ending, because you know any given character lifespan is finite, and you can go full-bore evil on the next cycle.
The persistence of EVE characters throws this for a bit of a loop. We mitigated this somewhat with the ability to replay an arc three months after completion, but three months is a long time, and not all players are going to have the opportunity to return to the same space to run that mission again. A player character has life beyond the mission content itself. So we decided the best course was to make the branching points as explicit as possible. We have not taken away the ramifications of a choice--you still only see the first mission in any given branch--but we wanted to make sure we did not blind-side the player and ruin the play experience for a character who will progress for long beyond the end of any one arc.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:35:00 -
[58]
The 3 month limit is clearly intended to prevent farming, so how are you planning to prevent farming by using disposable alts? Can I start the arc with these alts and use another character to fly the missions and reap the benefits? I know this isn't an issue with such an low reward arc, but you must have thought about this issue. If you just limit it with standing, are the requirements higher or lower then with normal agents to balance out the special rewards you can get?
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CCP Jasonitas
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:42:00 -
[59]
We certainly have thought about this issue, but the amount of effort put into this arc ("Blood-Stained Stars") vs. its actual payout is a rather inefficient way of farming a system. Even if you keep creating alts to farm the arc, you won't be getting an ideal bang for your buck, so to speak. With other arcs, we can avoid this problem by making them not aimed at new players, thus requiring more initial investment (be it standings, location, etc).
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Aeo IV
Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:37:00 -
[60]
I'm rather disappointed-- I mean, you've basically spent a few months of development time, to create some new sort of mission, but this mission is going to only be open to newer players, and will probably only give you standings with two factions, and a lot of your new players are going to be in the FW, how exactly are you planing on dealing with that? It seems to me the only people with the resources to run an epic mission are also the ones who half the time have negative standings with SoE and at least 2 of the empires, certainly, new players aren't going to have the ships or the know how to benefit from these development.
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