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Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:54:00 -
[391] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Mrr Woodcock wrote:You know I understand you need your baby's to bash. So now were trying to decide, can't bash a 1 or 2 week old in the head with a base ball bat, but we need to make it clear that 6 month old baby's are ok for head bashing. Then it's oh my goodness, we can't do that to any baby's, but 2 year old's are ok to head bash. I'm simply not going to give this to you, no matter what stupid logic you keep pitching. What I'm certain of though, is there will still be easy targets for you to bash, you can rest assured of that. Don't Panic, they will still be there. You want to protect a class, define it. You've skipped right over what Tippia and I have said and gone right to impugning our motives. Here's my set of premises. 1) EvE is a place that allows non-consensual PvP without restrictions 2) Because newbies are new, they should be protected 3) 2 should not compromise 1 This means that it must be made crystal clear WHO is protected and WHERE. The WHAT that they are protected from can be somewhat vague. Say I want to protect whatsits from harm. You have no idea what a whatsit is, so you go and shoot something. Would it be fair if I told you after you shot the thing that it was a whatsit and now you must be punished for shooting the protected whatsit?
You have one solid known for a fact piece of the puzzle. They are only protected in the starter systems. So if I were you I would just make that short list of systems off limits for any kind of PvP agression. Problem fixed. Of course any and every single law ever written was made to be broken. And all the people posting problems with this are those that so want to test this limit. Well then by all means test the limits and find out first hand where they are then report back. This is not rocket science people. EVE is a huge place. Are the people posting here really not going to have any fun because a few systems are off limits? If that is the case you might as well rage quit right now. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 06:56:00 -
[392] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:You know you must feel very strongly about this. I'm impressed, I almost think your some kind of lawyer. Wow. You know I'm very impressed at how hard your trying.
Let me try this just one more time, just leave the rookies alone.
Now just so there isn't any confusion, I'm actually going to define Rookie for you. You've been wanting for it all day, we've been implying what it is all day. I told my self I wasn't going to give you the satisfaction, but here it is.
Rookie:
An inexperienced person; a novice.
Ok, now please go on, and tell us all why that isn't good enough. It's good enough for Websters, and basically the whole English speaking world. But I just have a feeling, lol. It's not good enough for you.
So just how can we identify these rookies on sight alone? Skill points? Reg date? How many skill points does a rookie have? Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:12:00 -
[393] - Quote
InternetSpaceship wrote:Mrr Woodcock wrote:You know you must feel very strongly about this. I'm impressed, I almost think your some kind of lawyer. Wow. You know I'm very impressed at how hard your trying.
Let me try this just one more time, just leave the rookies alone.
Now just so there isn't any confusion, I'm actually going to define Rookie for you. You've been wanting for it all day, we've been implying what it is all day. I told my self I wasn't going to give you the satisfaction, but here it is.
Rookie:
An inexperienced person; a novice.
Ok, now please go on, and tell us all why that isn't good enough. It's good enough for Websters, and basically the whole English speaking world. But I just have a feeling, lol. It's not good enough for you. So just how can we identify these rookies on sight alone? Skill points? Reg date? How many skill points does a rookie have?
You can not and that is what all the whinning is about. The rookies hold all of the cards in the starter systems. You are totally free to go into those starter systems and cause problems stir the pot all you want. Take all the chances you want and push the line til it breaks. But when a rookie calls you on it you lose. So why take that chance and for what possible reason would you want to anyway? The GM's will protect the rookies. They made that clear in the starter systems.
Or you can do the smart thing and just make the starter systems off limits. How many are there anyway? What will it kill you to do this? |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 08:11:00 -
[394] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:InternetSpaceship wrote:[quote=Kara Books]
Just look at goonswarm. Our day old rookies are tackling supercapitals 30 minutes after joining. LMFAO, really? You seriously suggesting these guys are rookies? Honestly?
Yes? When I started Eve, I literally knew nothing about it. Joining GW didn't just magically bestow me with knowledge of Eve.
Although the previous response regarding starter areas answered my question a lot better than yours did. Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 08:16:00 -
[395] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:InternetSpaceship wrote:Mrr Woodcock wrote:You know you must feel very strongly about this. I'm impressed, I almost think your some kind of lawyer. Wow. You know I'm very impressed at how hard your trying.
Let me try this just one more time, just leave the rookies alone.
Now just so there isn't any confusion, I'm actually going to define Rookie for you. You've been wanting for it all day, we've been implying what it is all day. I told my self I wasn't going to give you the satisfaction, but here it is.
Rookie:
An inexperienced person; a novice.
Ok, now please go on, and tell us all why that isn't good enough. It's good enough for Websters, and basically the whole English speaking world. But I just have a feeling, lol. It's not good enough for you. So just how can we identify these rookies on sight alone? Skill points? Reg date? How many skill points does a rookie have? You can not and that is what all the whinning is about. The rookies hold all of the cards in the starter systems. You are totally free to go into those starter systems and cause problems stir the pot all you want. Take all the chances you want and push the line til it breaks. But when a rookie calls you on it you lose. So why take that chance and for what possible reason would you want to anyway? The GM's will protect the rookies. They made that clear in the starter systems. Or you can do the smart thing and just make the starter systems off limits. How many are there anyway? What will it kill you to do this?
Well, as I said earlier, I don't really gank anyone at all, and I'm all for protecting brand new players. Even GW doesn't typically target brand new players (and if you're in a hulk, you're not brand new). But I still agree it is a mistake to give us a group of players that we aren't allowed to attack, and then provide no means for us to identify that group by.
What if some hisec veteran carebear is mining and some day old rookie decides to steal from his can? He just has to sit there and take it because he has no way of knowing if this guy is just some new player or an older player in a newbie ship?
Guess I know where I"m getting all my veld now (you know, if I actually mined veld).
Seriously, what is the harm in the mods actually letting us know who it is we aren't supposed to be shooting? PvP happens even in those starter zones. What if a day old newbie joins a corp that is wardecced? If someone blows him up, they get banned, even though they had no clue they weren't allowed to shoot him, even though he was red to them. There really is no harm in making it clear who we aren't allowed to shoot if we are expressly not allowed to shoot them.
I suppose the next step is to beg ccp to make empire a no-pvp zone entirely. And that's really all your argument is. A thinly veiled excuse to argue that Empire should be entirely pvp-free. Rather than deal with gankers yourself, you want CCP to come in and play the game for you. Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
Alison McCarty
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 09:03:00 -
[396] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.
You are talking about 80% of the Eve players and 90% of some big null sec alliances. You may think about your policie |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 09:32:00 -
[397] - Quote
InternetSpaceship wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:InternetSpaceship wrote:Mrr Woodcock wrote:You know you must feel very strongly about this. I'm impressed, I almost think your some kind of lawyer. Wow. You know I'm very impressed at how hard your trying.
Let me try this just one more time, just leave the rookies alone.
Now just so there isn't any confusion, I'm actually going to define Rookie for you. You've been wanting for it all day, we've been implying what it is all day. I told my self I wasn't going to give you the satisfaction, but here it is.
Rookie:
An inexperienced person; a novice.
Ok, now please go on, and tell us all why that isn't good enough. It's good enough for Websters, and basically the whole English speaking world. But I just have a feeling, lol. It's not good enough for you. So just how can we identify these rookies on sight alone? Skill points? Reg date? How many skill points does a rookie have? You can not and that is what all the whinning is about. The rookies hold all of the cards in the starter systems. You are totally free to go into those starter systems and cause problems stir the pot all you want. Take all the chances you want and push the line til it breaks. But when a rookie calls you on it you lose. So why take that chance and for what possible reason would you want to anyway? The GM's will protect the rookies. They made that clear in the starter systems. Or you can do the smart thing and just make the starter systems off limits. How many are there anyway? What will it kill you to do this? Well, as I said earlier, I don't really gank anyone at all, and I'm all for protecting brand new players. Even GW doesn't typically target brand new players (and if you're in a hulk, you're not brand new). But I still agree it is a mistake to give us a group of players that we aren't allowed to attack, and then provide no means for us to identify that group by. What if some hisec veteran carebear is mining and some day old rookie decides to steal from his can? He just has to sit there and take it because he has no way of knowing if this guy is just some new player or an older player in a newbie ship? Guess I know where I"m getting all my veld now (you know, if I actually mined veld). Seriously, what is the harm in the mods actually letting us know who it is we aren't supposed to be shooting? PvP happens even in those starter zones. What if a day old newbie joins a corp that is wardecced? If someone blows him up, they get banned, even though they had no clue they weren't allowed to shoot him, even though he was red to them. There really is no harm in making it clear who we aren't allowed to shoot if we are expressly not allowed to shoot them. I suppose the next step is to beg ccp to make empire a no-pvp zone entirely. And that's really all your argument is. A thinly veiled excuse to argue that Empire should be entirely pvp-free. Rather than deal with gankers yourself, you want CCP to come in and play the game for you.
The GM's will rule on each case based upon each individual merits. No blanket rule. They already said as much. So yes their is risk in the starter systems only this time the rookies hold the cards. So it is sort of a reverse risk. IE. The starter systems may not be the safe haven to mine in because the rookies can grief you. So basically the starter systems are only safe if you are a rookie.
I think your example is poor anyway because miners just sit and take can stealing everywhere. Why should the starter system be any different? So just because these guys are noobs you want to be able to stand up to them as a miner? And with what, are you going to throw stones at them? So yes you have to just sit there and take it like you do anywhere else. Now if you are part of a defensive fleet protecting your miners then why are you hiding in starter systems? It would seem to me that you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. That does not happen in EVE anywhere. But if you really must get revenge well as soon as that pilot leaves the starter system he is fair game go get him.
If you want an answer to the day old war dec rookie in a starter system then ask. Make a petition to a GM in game. Get an answer to that specific example then use it to defend your actions should you ever need it. I am trying to understand why this would ever be a problem in the first place. About the only thing you will be doing is mining. If he is war dec to you and one day old it is not too likely he will even know about fitting scams or webs or even the propper way to use them. He might web you and allow you to warp out that much faster. If he is an alt one day old he could be trouble, he holds all the cards. You hold all the risk.
But again I say why take the chance anyway just stay clear. Problem solved. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
138
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 10:23:00 -
[398] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Crawl out from under your rock worm, grow a pair, find a low-sec gate and have all your worries put to rest.
'Cause WhySo's the bastion of elite PvP. Would you enjoy it if you were to, on occasion, receive a GM warning or Ban because of your target selection? And have no useful information with which to avoid said warning or ban because the protected target class is ill-defined.
I can shoot whoever I want, whenever I want.
RubyPorto wrote: Again, if you think it's easy to define rookie, define it.
Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 10:55:00 -
[399] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Crawl out from under your rock worm, grow a pair, find a low-sec gate and have all your worries put to rest.
'Cause WhySo's the bastion of elite PvP. Would you enjoy it if you were to, on occasion, receive a GM warning or Ban because of your target selection? And have no useful information with which to avoid said warning or ban because the protected target class is ill-defined. I can shoot whoever I want, whenever I want. RubyPorto wrote: Again, if you think it's easy to define rookie, define it.
Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
There it is again. No pvp in hisec, just thinly veiled. This is a pvp game, but everyone is so scared of it. You guys really should be playing WoW if nonconsensual pvp scares you so much. Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 12:24:00 -
[400] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore? Fix FW ! |
|
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
138
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 12:41:00 -
[401] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore?
Since when is ganking miners, industrials and can-baiting noobies ment to be classed as pvp?
Only in hi-sec.
Pathetic as always. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 12:51:00 -
[402] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:DeBingJos wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore? Since when is ganking miners, industrials and can-baiting noobies ment to be classed as pvp? Only in hi-sec. Pathetic as always.
Lets see: miner = Player ... versus ... ganker = Player, sounds like pvp to me. Is it fair, no, is it pvp, yes. Fix FW ! |
Luis Graca
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 12:54:00 -
[403] - Quote
No trolling, and yes this is a actually question
In a sandbox game isn't there a rule saying something kinda like "If there no rules you can do it" ?
|
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1278
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 12:59:00 -
[404] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore?
It has always been Eve and is still now, you just play the wrong part of it. Why are you so afraid of moving to low/null? Are you afraid of loosing ships?
|
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
158
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:02:00 -
[405] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Since nothing of much economic value happens in rookie systems, the only thing this really applies to is something like "are Hulks in rookie systems 'rookies'?"
Dear lord... Hulks are advanced T2 ships. I am not going to dignify this with a real answer. That is your job though, to answer questions. By your own words you refuse to define what constitutes a new player, so we as players cannot second guess what you define is a new player - even if said player is in a Hulk.
You are 'special' aren't you? |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:06:00 -
[406] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:DeBingJos wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore? It has always been Eve and is still now, you just play the wrong part of it. Why are you so afraid of moving to low/null? Are you afraid of loosing ships?
Feel free to check my killboard. I lose a lot of ships in lowsec. :)
I just think highsec should not be totally safe. Danger is one of the core concepts of the game. Fix FW ! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7977
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:09:00 -
[407] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:InternetSpaceship wrote:Just look at goonswarm. Our day old rookies are tackling supercapitals 30 minutes after joining. LMFAO, really? You seriously suggesting these guys are rookies? Honestly? So we're tabck to that question: what precludes them from being rookies?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
158
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:11:00 -
[408] - Quote
Anyone else experiencing obtuseness overload? Should be a warning on the thread title.
that is all |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1908
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:30:00 -
[409] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:You know you must feel very strongly about this. I'm impressed, I almost think your some kind of lawyer. Wow. You know I'm very impressed at how hard your trying.
Let me try this just one more time, just leave the rookies alone.
Now just so there isn't any confusion, I'm actually going to define Rookie for you. You've been wanting for it all day, we've been implying what it is all day. I told my self I wasn't going to give you the satisfaction, but here it is.
Rookie:
An inexperienced person; a novice.
Ok, now please go on, and tell us all why that isn't good enough. It's good enough for Websters, and basically the whole English speaking world. But I just have a feeling, lol. It's not good enough for you.
That is a vague and circular definition useless for protecting a class. Take a look at a law, any law, and you'll notice that terms are defined rather carefully. Law and rules are not written in natural language because they need to be precise if they are to do what they are intended. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1908
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:31:00 -
[410] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:InternetSpaceship wrote:[quote=Kara Books]
Just look at goonswarm. Our day old rookies are tackling supercapitals 30 minutes after joining. LMFAO, really? You seriously suggesting these guys are rookies? Honestly?
I think that anyone with less than 24hrs of game experience is probably a rookie, yes. Not a member of the class we're trying to protect, but certainly covered by your natural language definition. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1908
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:32:00 -
[411] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:InternetSpaceship wrote:Kara Books wrote:Lets look at it from a whole different perspective, People who pray on 1 day old players, WISH have or may do this in real life, Im talking about Killers rapists bad people who go after kids... These people are BAD and they REALLY do exist!, pretty much any one who has family, loves some one or has kids understands, these individuals need to be kept away from the temporally defenseless who just started exploring the basics of the new world around them.
1. Yes this is eve online, this is a world with no rules, but Chasing away new players makes it worse for you, in fact, why fight the wave, join it, help these new players leave the systems and stay with eve for years to come.
2. Instead of forcing people to leave, make new friends, go with the wave, help this game grow from 50K active online weekends to 500K.
That concludes my personal Opinion on the matter. That's all fine, and I'm all for protecting rookies while they figure out the game. But this is still a pvp game, and I don't want to get banned for attacking someone still considered a rookie when there isn't even a clear definition of what a rookie is. Just look at goonswarm. Our day old rookies are tackling supercapitals 30 minutes after joining. It really would be nice to have a clear definition of who we can and can't attack. I agree that in most situations, it'll be pretty obvious, but there will be situations where it really isn't. Indeed, I can see your point, but a supercap isnt suposto be involved in a hostile engagement in highsec, Newbie protected system of all things. Newbie+Newb system = the only place these rules should apply. Perhaps CCP should rename these systems, like some kind of super highsec training grounds or something along those lines. People entering or leaving the training grounds should get a warning, and some fast facts/rules etc.
That's what I suggested 5 pages ago before Woodcock and friends insisted that rookie needs no definition. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1908
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:34:00 -
[412] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:RubyPorto wrote:The Rookie Protection rule says it's illegal to mess with Rookies* in starter systems**.
*intentionally vaguely defined. **Needs to be defined.
The protection from loopholes is in the "mess with Rookies" part. The protection from confusion is in the definition of "starter system" Fixed that for you.
The current rule is that you cannot mess with Rookies in starter systems. Both parts of the protected class definition must be met to be eligible for protection. You can mess with Non-Rookies in starter systems. You can mess with rookies Outside starter systems. You've only fixed my statement if you assume that the rule change that I suggested 5 pages ago has been put in place. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1908
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:39:00 -
[413] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Mrr Woodcock wrote:You know I understand you need your baby's to bash. So now were trying to decide, can't bash a 1 or 2 week old in the head with a base ball bat, but we need to make it clear that 6 month old baby's are ok for head bashing. Then it's oh my goodness, we can't do that to any baby's, but 2 year old's are ok to head bash. I'm simply not going to give this to you, no matter what stupid logic you keep pitching. What I'm certain of though, is there will still be easy targets for you to bash, you can rest assured of that. Don't Panic, they will still be there. You want to protect a class, define it. You've skipped right over what Tippia and I have said and gone right to impugning our motives. Here's my set of premises. 1) EvE is a place that allows non-consensual PvP without restrictions 2) Because newbies are new, they should be protected 3) 2 should not compromise 1 This means that it must be made crystal clear WHO is protected and WHERE. The WHAT that they are protected from can be somewhat vague. Say I want to protect whatsits from harm. You have no idea what a whatsit is, so you go and shoot something. Would it be fair if I told you after you shot the thing that it was a whatsit and now you must be punished for shooting the protected whatsit? You have one solid known for a fact piece of the puzzle. They are only protected in the starter systems. So if I were you I would just make that short list of systems off limits for any kind of PvP agression. Problem fixed. Of course any and every single law ever written was made to be broken. And all the people posting problems with this are those that so want to test this limit. Well then by all means test the limits and find out first hand where they are then report back. This is not rocket science people. EVE is a huge place. Are the people posting here really not going to have any fun because a few systems are off limits? If that is the case you might as well rage quit right now.
That's what I suggested 5 pages ago. But CCP needs to make rules clear in order to enforce them in a consistent manner. If they would like to ban all agression in Rookie systems, THATS FINE.
There would be downsides to that approach, people getting banned for ganking Hulks* in those systems, etc, but that's what you get for defining a protected class broadly.
*If someone says "Hulk's not a Rookie" again, they need to define rookie in a way that's more specific but still as sensitive. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1279
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:39:00 -
[414] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:DeBingJos wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore? It has always been Eve and is still now, you just play the wrong part of it. Why are you so afraid of moving to low/null? Are you afraid of loosing ships? Feel free to check my killboard. I lose a lot of ships in lowsec. :) I just think highsec should not be totally safe. Danger is one of the core concepts of the game.
And it is not.
See wardec/Faction warfare stats to figure it out.
No need to search false crappy excuses to use/abuse the lack of distinct rules to support a very false argument. Now, if you're talking about NPC toons you should always be able to gank them, but you should also have to consider your loss vs profit instead of a simple brainless "high sec not safe, me shoots because defenceless ship not fight back, mwahahah me better at eve"
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7977
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 13:42:00 -
[415] - Quote
Ooh, I missed that one!Mrr Woodcock wrote:Now just so there isn't any confusion, I'm actually going to define Rookie for you. You've been wanting for it all day, we've been implying what it is all day. I told my self I wasn't going to give you the satisfaction, but here it is.
Rookie:
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áAn inexperienced person; a novice.
Ok, now please go on, and tell us all why that isn't good enough. Because it doesn't change the fundamental problem of defining who does and who doesn't belong to the group GÇö it just replaces the word with a synonym without adding any specificity (which is what we're after). GÇ£Don't mess with inexperienced personsGÇ¥ and GÇ£don't mess with novicesGÇ¥ are just as unhelpful as GÇ£don't mess with rookiesGÇ¥ (ok, it's not entirely unhelpful GÇö that GÇÿpersonsGÇÖ bit means we can conclude that your parakeet isn't a rookie).
What is a novice? What counts as inexperienced?
It doesn't tell us whether or not we can shoot that rookie with the 25bn tech loadGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1908
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Posted - 2012.06.15 13:42:00 -
[416] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:DeBingJos wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore? Since when is ganking miners, industrials and can-baiting noobies ment to be classed as pvp? Only in hi-sec. Pathetic as always.
A Ganker is a Player. A Miner is a Player.
Player... VS... Player.
You may not like that form, and that's perfectly fine. But it's valid gameplay. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1909
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Posted - 2012.06.15 13:46:00 -
[417] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote: The GM's will rule on each case based upon each individual merits. No blanket rule. They already said as much. So yes their is risk in the starter systems only this time the rookies hold the cards. So it is sort of a reverse risk. IE. The starter systems may not be the safe haven to mine in because the rookies can grief you. So basically the starter systems are only safe if you are a rookie.
Since you say that shooting Non-Rookies is all right in Rookie systems, Define "Rookie" in a way that allows people to avoid shooting them.
Quote: But again I say why take the chance anyway just stay clear. Problem solved.
Again, I say if the GMs want to ban ALL agression in rookie systems, that's fine. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2012.06.15 14:13:00 -
[418] - Quote
Man I'm glad that's fine with you Ruby, that makes everything OK with everyone I guess. Well Not me!
By the way good morning.
CCP it's perfectly clear to me this guy had all the answers. and good ones to boot. Please just simply do what he says, so he'll shut up. Please Please |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1909
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Posted - 2012.06.15 14:18:00 -
[419] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:Man I'm glad that's fine with you Ruby, that makes everything OK with everyone I guess. Well Not me!
Then suggest an alternative that's clear to everyone and enforceable. Or Explain why surprising people with bans due to unclear rules is a positive thing. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
303
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Posted - 2012.06.15 14:53:00 -
[420] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:DeBingJos wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:DeBingJos wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote: Is the security of the system I'm currently located in less then 0.5? If yes, I'm golden. Simples.
Since when is highsec supposed to be safe? Should I start looking for another game, because this is not EVE anymore? It has always been Eve and is still now, you just play the wrong part of it. Why are you so afraid of moving to low/null? Are you afraid of loosing ships? Feel free to check my killboard. I lose a lot of ships in lowsec. :) I just think highsec should not be totally safe. Danger is one of the core concepts of the game. And it is not. See wardec/Faction warfare stats to figure it out. No need to search false crappy excuses to use/abuse the lack of distinct rules to support a very false argument. Now, if you're talking about NPC toons you should always be able to gank them, but you should also have to consider your loss vs profit instead of a simple brainless "high sec not safe, me shoots because defenceless ship not fight back, mwahahah me better at eve"
Nobody here is saying that it is ok to gank rookies in startersystems. The problem is in the fact that ccp tries to protect rookies in other systems than the startersystems without clearly defining what a rookie is.
Is this really that hard to comprehend? We don't want to gank rookies and in order to achieve that we need to know what a rookie is.
I'm really getting tired of being called a ganker. Is that the only argument you guys can come up with? This is not about griefing rookies, this argument is about defining clear rules in a game in order to improve gameplay for everyone, especially for the new players.
sigh.... Fix FW ! |
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