GM Haggis > A reminder to all players that can flipping and can baiting is NOT allowed in Rookie Systems. A full list of Rookie Systems can be found at : http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

Why are you sitting in the starter system trying to go up to the line without crossing it? Leave the noobs alone. There will be plenty of time to grief those players later, if that's your thing. Don't make them quit before they get the opportunity to appreciate the game.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right

Here's an idea, go to those systems and if you get banned, that was a rookie.

Dont think its THAT hard to figure out who NOT to kill when they GIVE YOU A LIST of systems -.-

I live in a rookie system.. and as I said, me, and all my alts have accounted for 1 "newbie" kill, and that was when I was a newbie.. [ first week or so.. ]..

But I also run sites, not uncommon for another player I personally would consider not a rookie to show up and start stealing from the first room while I'm in another.. Valid target in my books, I wouldn't consider anyone who can scan down a Serpentis Watch for example a newbie.. But I donno what I GM would say..

I want to know where I stand.. and I really don't care if people want to troll with "go elsewhere".. I'm quite happy where I am.. and I'll be fine with the rules either way.. but I still want to know..

its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right

If they are in a rookie system I would say you are wrong. Not everyone is "all in" when they start playing. I certainly wasn't. It may be that they only actually played a few times but skilled up to fly a mining barge. An exumer would probably be a different story... do what you want but I would just avoid rookie systems altogether.

Lot of reading comprehension fails in this thread. OP clearly said she's NOT actively griefing newbs, but wants to know if it's ok to kill a newb who does something that deserves it (like stealing her stuff whens he's minding her own business).

Seems like a valid question to me.

Lot of reading comprehension fails in this thread. OP clearly said she's NOT actively griefing newbs, but wants to know if it's ok to kill a newb who does something that deserves it (like stealing her stuff whens he's minding her own business).

Seems like a valid question to me.

Lot of reading comprehension fails in this thread. OP clearly said she's NOT actively griefing newbs, but wants to know if it's ok to kill a newb who does something that deserves it (like stealing her stuff whens he's minding her own business).

Seems like a valid question to me.

Yeah but most of those asking for further clarification past the GM's clarification are ppl looking TO gank.

If a GM would do it, I'd gladly get them to vouch for the fact that none of my accounts or toons have ever ganked anyone, or griefed rookies, but anyone definition.

I know anyone that has spent time in Clellinon will vouch for the fact that I help, not grief.. but oh well..

Some people just want to know the rules of the game.. I want to know when I see a Red who isn't in an 'early' ship if I can Shoot.. And I want to know the specifics in case I want to petition someone who is imho greifing a newbie, or seems to be looking for trouble so I can advise them of the rules..

do what you want but I would just avoid rookie systems altogether.

If you are not a rookie, why are you in a rookie system?

Simple solution to force rookies out, everybody raise the prices of stuff in 1.0 systems to UNAFFORDABLE :)

wonder if the GMs would see that as griefing the noobs and ban everyone involved lol

But we aren't in 1.0 systems :)

Hint: remote buy / sell :)

Thankyou for the concise response :)

Could we get some indication of what a Rookie is ?

Maybe not an exact date and time.. but.. Clearly messing with a newbie in a Navitas would be bad.. What about the guy that shows up in a Retty, Cov, Hulk, stripping the belts bare.. Are we allowed to mess with them ?

Or the two month player running scanned sites down, and ratting in the belts.. are the free to steal from or engage if they take from us ?

There are lots of players that pass through at least the Rookie system I base out of, of all ages, skill levels, and intent..

Ive never understood the logic behind killing rookie players, its like throwing a kid on thin ice when they are just learning how to walk.
I mean what does the veteran gain from killing noobs besides 1 trit, an ibis killmail and an epeen stroke.

Ive never understood the logic behind killing rookie players, its like throwing a kid on thin ice when they are just learning how to walk.

Is it allowed to go into 1.0 in a hulk and suck all the roids up?

Any reasons why I'm not allowed to mine in Amarr?
By your logic of course...

I mean the "specific" rookie 1.0 systems. Amarr has Chaven , Sehmy and Emrayur .

You do know that Amarr (solar system) is 1.0?
You should be more specific with your questions in the future then.

Rookies got auto kicked out of the Rookie Help channel after 30 days so I would say anyone 1 month and older is fair game.

I hardly ever go to a rookie system, only if a skillbook is required and it's the closest station.

As for what a rookie is and what not, if people can't use common sense as to what a rookie in a rookie system is and what not they are in the wrong game aswel.

If you see a hulk in there you sure as hell can say it isn't a rookie.

And it's a very good thing there is some protection in Rookie systems because else we would see a lot of fail people in there messing up the game of those who just started.
If you can't wait for them to come out of that system then you also are in the wrong game.

This way they would be protected, it will be a one way door so older chars cannot enter it and thus rookies are safer this way (until they leave :) )

Unfortunately due to plex and char bazaar, it may be a rookie.

There is no need for CCP to dictate how long someone can remain in a certain system.
Else we could also implement a rule on how long a logged in character may stay docked or within a PoS shield. Or how long a cloak may work etc.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

They already dictate to older chars in rookie systems and other parts of eve. Eve is not the sandbox you think it is, that is a marketing term.

[quote=hakkiew365]*snip*
a sociopathic rush? rofl
*snip*

You can keep assuming I'm the one griefing them.. All I can say is I'm not..
I guess in the future I'll just make a petition when I have a question for the GM's.. Clearly most would rather assume that anyone who wants to know the rules is trying to subvert them..

Thankyou for the concise response :)

Could we get some indication of what a Rookie is ?

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

Can we get a clear definition of what a "system" is?

Also, "in any way" seems ambiguous to me ... can you clarify?

I do know that it is perfectly acceptable to gank someone in a rookie system because I petitioned the action before I did it (******* AFK Hulk drivers...)

CCP has made it quite clear they want to bring new players to this game. GM has made it quite clear that new players in the Rookie Systems are not to be messed with.

WTF is so hard to understand about that?


You say : What if a new player in the Rookie System scans down a 'Watch' site and then steals your loot?

Everyone more or less knows there's a very small extreme chance of that ever happening.

What I see is you looking for some sort of loophole that allows you to kill new players in the Rookie systems.

I can't imagine anyone would seriously try to say "I can't be ganked in my expensive mining barge, I was in a NEWBIE SECTOR", but who knows? Pubbies are dumb.

Wanting to know the criteria by which the GM's judge isn't too much to ask..

CCP has made it quite clear they want to bring new players to this game. GM has made it quite clear that new players in the Rookie Systems are not to be messed with.

WTF is so hard to understand about that?

In general,

"griefing" is a term that means action against another player that makes the target feel like being targeted on purpose or for the sake of harassment only.

In EVE, "griefing" refers to various activities, some of which can be argued not to be "griefing" in the classic sense, but parts of valid gameplay.

There are certain forms of griefing that can get you banned from the game. These include (but probably are not limited to) can baiting in rookie systems and certain forms of verbal harassment.]

You mean that every time I go to Aki to strip the belts there with my Hulk (as I am wont to do) and some lessthanaday old n00b comes along and steals ALL my stuff with his Ibis of Dewm - I can't even throw out my drones so they insta-pop his sorry a$$ before I can even click "Engage?"

What would be quite simple, easy to understand and would stop people attempting to find ways around the rules is :

No PvP permitted in rookie systems.

There are no reasons for older players to be in rookie systems other than to bump up very low faction standings or to buy skills.

Oh and if you do go there and spot cans on the undock, do us all a favour and petition the tossers who dropped them.

Plenty of places to get fights in Eve, screwing over people in rookie systems isn't necessary.

Edit - oh and if hulks stripping belts are a problem then remove the belts from rookie systems. Any mining which missions require should be instanced.

Taking cans at the undock from baiters... it hurts them more to kill them than it does to petition them.

Only Rookies have Cookies!

Can rookies not have a training system locked only for them for say, 1 week? or until they complete a training tutorial then the gate is open and they MUST leave that system and we can do what we want then? That way they cannot hide in 1.0 forever.

Honestly.. I don't understand people who think knowing the rules is a bad thing.. Imagine if life was like that at home, school, and otherwise in the world..

"Don't speed on this road." "What's the speed limit ?" " Get on a different road." .. o_0

If you are not a rookie, why are you in a rookie system?

its not a newbie if its in a mining barge right

Only Rookies have Cookies!

Can rookies not have a training system locked only for them for say, 1 week? or until they complete a training tutorial then the gate is open and they MUST leave that system and we can do what we want then? That way they cannot hide in 1.0 forever.

If its a t2 in a rookie system. its not a rookie. Gack them. Otherwise its still and always has been cut and dry.

OMGWTF, there are 12 rookie systems. Stay the hell out.

rookie system doesn't mean safe haven f y i

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

Why NOT to make rookie systems PvP free systems?

Simple. Because then people who want to avoid getting killed can hop in there and be safe.

My corporation dec'd another corporation that bases out of Clell. If we get a fight there and pop them, can we expect them to be able to petition for "picking on them" even though they are in no way, shape, or form "rookies"?

Try to graps the concept that there is a difference between Rookie and Rookie system. If you are too daft to grasp that then please do us all a favour and uninstall the game.
You are clearly not able to understand basic game mechanics and are therefor not EVE material.

Lots of Rookies join player corps almost right away, for better or worse..
So what about a week old player in a Player corp in a Rookie system that's a valid WT ? Or even not a valid WT, but just someone in a corp that your corp routinely fights with ?

When i see a rookie mining in a rookie system into his little can I leave him be. If a corp of players mining into a can with orca support and a drake bobbing about in the same system for so called protection. You can bet your sweet manly hairy ass I'm making that can mine.

If I get a warning for that, that is a bit ********. The last time I was in a rookie system I had a Navy Apoc and a Oracle on me.

Lot of reading comprehension fails in this thread. OP clearly said she's NOT actively griefing newbs, but wants to know if it's ok to kill a newb who does something that deserves it (like stealing her stuff whens he's minding her own business).

Seems like a valid question to me.

How hard is the whole concept for you people?
Are you really that daft as to need a handheld manual as what is possible and what not?

Eve is either a sandbox or it's not. There really is no middle ground.
The moment devs begin to make exceptions to a fundamental element of a mmorpg they have (historically speaking) made more and more changes that tended to make the mmorpg pretty generic.
I know we are getting many players here that are bored of their other games so I guess for some reason it's inevitable that they try and turn this game into what they are used to. That seems to be what most of the posters here want so more power to you.
May as well make starter systems pvp free and get it over with. Just take the roids out to make it somewhat fair.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

If you are not a rookie, why are you in a rookie system?

there are 12 rookie systems

But what if somebody is hulk jet can mining to help rookies earn isk?

Are you saying we can no longer help rookies in their starter systems?

Are you saying you're not turning the cans blue? 'Cause if you aren't sounds like you're baiting....

Are you saying you're not turning the cans blue? 'Cause if you aren't sounds like you're baiting....

See, there are different kind of rules. The hard ones and the vague ones and each have a purpose.
If you state a rule somewhat vague you purposefully leave a grey area. Within this area, it is up to the police/judge/GM to decide whether you broke the rule or not.
The effect of this is a certain uncertainty, which may appear as a bad thing but often really isn't. Since the goal here is to avoid people walking the line, to push the limits, to find loopholes. On the other hand, it allows GM to show leniance, too. (Also, vague rules are used, when it's very difficult to actually define the limits objectively).

And you have these kind of rules/laws in real life, too.
"Don't drive in a way that recklessly endangers other traffic participants" - "Wait, what classifies as reckless driving?" - "Don't push it, man!"
If you would define "recklessly" by setting limits for speed, acceleration, deviation from the road center, and whatsnot, you'd leave loopholes. Of course, hard rules have a purpose aswell, as they make it easy to deal with obvious cases and are less prone to subjective judgement.

So back to topic:
If you are in a rookie system and in a situation where you wonder "Is this a rookie now or not?", it should be clear that as soon as you have valid cause to even ask this question, the safe course of action is to leave it be. It's a about common sense, really.
Of course you can still ask that question, answer it for yourself as good as you can, but when acting accordingly, you willingly accept the risk that goes along with that. Eve, consequences and stuff ;)

The rule is "do not mess with rookies", and if you are in doubt the answer is ALWAYS 'do not do it'.

okay so i get the "dont mess with the rookies period" point, but is pvp still allowed in the system? like for example can you pvp with someone who isnt a rookie in that system?

I dont pvp in rookie systems but when i would go to them i would see people pvping outside the staton who arent rookies

I'm not sure admitting your an incompetent player that can only handle noobs is something you want to post here.....

This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it.

Reckless is vague, like Mess with. Given.

But the law defines what Driving is :p So should it define a Rookie imho.


And honestly.. if you want to protect Rookies, the Rookie systems idea is flawed.
What should be done is some way to flag them, like give them a Blue icon [ Red is evil, Yellow did some time, Green if your corpmate.. Blue can be Rookie ] .. And make them protected in all of Highsec. A few training missions themselves have newbies leaving the "safety" of a rookie system, not to mention you have to go from the Starter system to the Career Agent system, where I have seen baitcans on the gates along that route before.

So give them serious protection. Make it so for them to get Aggro [ aka stealing, providing RR, etc. ] they have to jump through hoops and give up the rookie protection.. rather than just a single warning popup that apparently 90% of newbies hit okay too without reading lol..


This would give them, say, 30 days [ Same amount of time you are in Rookie Help ] of protection everywhere in highsec. And give all other players a visual indication not to mess with them.

Note that dropping your property into space in a rookie system is not a bright idea. If a rookie gets curious ad takes from the can you had better not shoot him. You do not want a rookie to nab your stuff, do not drop the stuff in a rookie system.

Warning: Can Flipping in Rookie Systems is considered Griefing.

Can flipping / baiting

This refers to the practice of (ab)using the Criminal Flagging System to cause a fight between yourself and an unsuspecting party in high-security space. See main article for more.

Can flipping is officially considered griefing only in Rookie Systems. Some people do it just for fun, without the actual intent to cause the feelings of harassment and frustration in the victim. It is, however, also a typical form of griefing in the classic sense.

Reckless is vague, like Mess with. Given.

But the law defines what Driving is :p So should it define a Rookie imho.


And honestly.. if you want to protect Rookies, the Rookie systems idea is flawed.
What should be done is some way to flag them, like give them a Blue icon [ Red is evil, Yellow did some time, Green if your corpmate.. Blue can be Rookie ] .. And make them protected in all of Highsec. A few training missions themselves have newbies leaving the "safety" of a rookie system, not to mention you have to go from the Starter system to the Career Agent system, where I have seen baitcans on the gates along that route before.

So give them serious protection. Make it so for them to get Aggro [ aka stealing, providing RR, etc. ] they have to jump through hoops and give up the rookie protection.. rather than just a single warning popup that apparently 90% of newbies hit okay too without reading lol..


This would give them, say, 30 days [ Same amount of time you are in Rookie Help ] of protection everywhere in highsec. And give all other players a visual indication not to mess with them.

Some people think I'm kind of a degenerate for the way I approach piracy. I loot wrecks and salvage them at fights I'm not involved in, and mainly prey on haulers (and cyno frigs when I'm bored). If people come ready to fight I typically run. It's fine... the world needs bottom feeders too.

I feel a lot better knowing there are rungs on the food chain beneath even me. Why do you even care about rookies? They have no ISK, they have lame noob ships and T1 frigs, never drop anything remotely decent, and don't even know how to fly around in space let alone fight. It's moronic to mess with them. Congrats, Sentinel Smith... you are the biggest looser.

Wait, isn't Jita a rookie system?

Show up Saturday and see if it looks like a rookie system. Long answer: no. Jita is the most dangerous high sec system.

So it's a Cookie system :)

That's a good way to put it

Well, I guess I should sell tickets, I can park a few account toons in there and get isk to log off to free up a slot as it is limited :)

I guess in the future I'll just make a petition when I have a question for the GM's.. Clearly most would rather assume that anyone who wants to know the rules is trying to subvert them..

Sociopaths don't get a "rush" of any kind. That's what makes them sociopaths.

Psychopathic rush?

Yes as I understand it its just when the sociopath or rather those with anti social personality disorder (as I understand it sociopath isnt the correct term anymore) cant talk themselves out of doint it. AND they dont have remorse or conscience. See the TV show Dexter



Yes, you can still PvP there. You cannot mess with the rookies there, what you do to other people is your own business. Note that dropping your property into space in a rookie system is not a bright idea. If a rookie gets curious ad takes from the can you had better not shoot him. You do not want a rookie to nab your stuff, do not drop the stuff in a rookie system.

Psychopathic rush?

Yes as I understand it its just when the sociopath or rather those with anti social personality disorder (as I understand it sociopath isnt the correct term anymore) cant talk themselves out of doint it. AND they dont have remorse or conscience. See the TV show Dexter

There's a difference between a compulsion/obsession and emotion. American Psycho vs Dexter. I got 20 on Patrick Bateman.

CCP sadbox kinda.

lol anyone who gets ganked in a hauler should petition CCP and say HEY IM STILL LEARNING I TOOK A BREAK lul.



Whos up for making trail accounts and can flipping in noob sysytems just because of CCPS dumb rule?

Im sorry, if you cant see the reasoning behind this rule, noone can... just do the rest of us a favor and go break it -.-

Does your statement means Baiting and Flipping is now allowed, providing you don't kill Rookies ?

Why are you in a rookie system in the first place?

Define a rookie? 1 week old? 1 month old? There has to be a limit, where is it?

Define a Rookie, we need a clear definition. Surely a Hulk player in 1.0 rookie system is NOT a rookie. or a 1 or 2 month old player is NOT a rookie.

Seems this one is looking hard for a way to gank rookies.

Can not get any more pathetic than that.

What if....
What if....
What if....

What are you 2?

To stop nubs from rage quitting?

Cause when you gank them in 30 days... they won't?

Got news for ya... when I started playing it was around x-mas with the snow ball launchers... I was like a day old... guy started shooting me with it... I shot back got blowed up...

O **** IM STILL HERE... so anyone again the reason?

Learned about concord really fast.

Should I cry to CCP about a guy killing a like 2 day old via something CCP gave them?

CCP sadbox kinda.

lol anyone who gets ganked in a hauler should petition CCP and say HEY IM STILL LEARNING I TOOK A BREAK lul.



Whos up for making trail accounts and can flipping in noob sysytems just because of CCPS dumb rule?

Makes me want to add a tag to my killboards.

If you show up as the aggressor in a noob system, and the pilot has less than 6 months ingame, you'll get a bully badge. And it may not really be the kind of badge you want people to see.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

If you shoot someone an kill em in the noob system an they're a noob, youll get a ban badge.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...

There is no such thing as bad publicity

Yes, you can still PvP there. You cannot mess with the rookies there, what you do to other people is your own business. Note that dropping your property into space in a rookie system is not a bright idea. If a rookie gets curious ad takes from the can you had better not shoot him. You do not want a rookie to nab your stuff, do not drop the stuff in a rookie system.

first thing I did when I started eve was attack one of those NPC cargo ships that travel from station to station.... I didn't realize it was NPC at the time.
It kicked my never-docked-in-it's life noob ship's buttox.

The second thing I did was undock in another noob ship and find a real player to attack.
They also kicked my ass.

Perhaps I'm not the typical new player. However, I don't believe I'm the only one that would ever try to do such a thing.
In my case, I wasn't upset that they kicked my butt, in fact I expected it.

Personally I don't think there's a better time to let new players know that there is no safe place in eve, than before they subscribe.


This false sense of security you give them only breeds resentment when they ultimately do get ganked in high sec. BUT... because you've protected them while it would be relatively in-expensive, they are surprised when they lose millions or even billions.

Eve players don't need to be molly-coddled. And players that need to have their hand held simply aren't going to like Eve as it is. That's something you really should come to terms with, and either accept it or change Eve.

Makes me want to add a tag to my killboards.

If you show up as the aggressor in a noob system, and the pilot has less than 6 months ingame, you'll get a bully badge. And it may not really be the kind of badge you want people to see.

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...

I cannot quote this person enough. Some rules are vague on purpose and they will remain vague. This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it. The rule is "do not mess with rookies", and if you are in doubt the answer is ALWAYS 'do not do it'.

Yes, you can still PvP there. You cannot mess with the rookies there, what you do to other people is your own business. Note that dropping your property into space in a rookie system is not a bright idea. If a rookie gets curious ad takes from the can you had better not shoot him. You do not want a rookie to nab your stuff, do not drop the stuff in a rookie system.

Oh, saint god.
A rookie is someone who's still in a t1 frigate/cruiser/industrial, doing the NPE quests.
Which is basically someone <10 days old, 30 at worse.
You REALLY need a description of that?

There is currently a blanket ban on can baiting in rookie systems, I just wanted to bring that up as many players make this mistake.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems
Warning: Can Flipping in Rookie Systems is considered Griefing.

So if you are thinking about can baiting only older players in those systems, please do not.

Oh, saint god.
A rookie is someone who's still in a t1 frigate/cruiser/industrial, doing the NPE quests.
Which is basically someone <10 days old, 30 at worse.
You REALLY need a description of that?

If rookies are worth protecting by CCP, they are worth protecting via in-game code -- not fuzzy, arbitrary, unknown or confusing rules discussed in a forum or website that not everyone will read or interpret correctly.

If rookies are to be protected, write CODE that makes their ships invulnerable to other player damage in hisec for 2 weeks (and prevent them from damaging other players). Make it impossible to steal from their cans, or them to steal from other player cans....WHATEVER. Do it in the damn code so its objective, not subjective and uniformly enforced with CLEAR warnings and results to the offender. i.e. CONCORD warning the person you are target locking is a 'protected person'. Whatever.....

There is an in-game crime system is there not? Why the frak is this not being used? Who was the genius who decided the in-game systems would not be used, and player policies enforced by website and forums? Brilliant

The point is that if you do this in the code you do it once, for everyone, forever. If you implement your rookie protection policy via TOS website, forums and other ineffective means however you fail, and fail forever...

Can flipping and can baiting are two very different things. Your page should say what you actually mean (according to the the posts by GM Homonoia) that can baiting is not allowed, but can flipping of non-rookies is ok. Specifically, the page should say, "Can Baiting in Rookie Systems is considered Griefing."

EDIT: If needed, I will be more than happy to write an independent article on can baiting.

Hard-coding any form of invulnerability to rookies will inevitably lead to abuse with throw-away rookie alts hauling stuff across New Eden in gank-proof industrials.

If it is't coded already, it's just because it isn't as simple as you imagined. The major issue is the lack of official definition of a rookie, not finding how to protect said rookies, if rules and definitions were clear then GM sanctions wouldn't be discussed.

Now we see true colors. ITT a bunch of jerks trying to find any loophole to be a jerk. Read the GM response - the rule is vague to keep you jackals from doing just that.

If the rules are written well and the system is designed well, there should be no loopholes.

If the rules are written well and the system is designed well, there should be no loopholes. It's simple: what is a rookie? where can i not kill them? What's so hard about that? If the answer is, you can't kill them anywhere, get ready for the jackals to start noob alts and begin setting things on fire. I, for one, am already giving thought to using a noob to steal ore from other noobs. The fallout should be funny.

Its real simple as the GM stated.

Get out of rookie systems. They are saying ANYWHERE else you can pretty much do whatever.

BUT you seem to insist youll live in like 20 systems in the freaking 5000+ system universe ?
Logic fail.
OR you like kicking the smallest kids in kindergarten still at the age of 30 probably.

None of this would be an issue if people weren't pathetic enough to go shoot at rookies in the first place.

GG*except that you have to be able to do so, otherwise it would create such a ridiculously huge and abusable loophole to hide stuff behind.

GG*except that you have to be able to do so, otherwise it would create such a ridiculously huge and abusable loophole to hide stuff behind.

I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.

And we have volumes of well written law books and yet there are still loopholes. The same would happen here, CCP could grab their lawyer, have him write the entire hall of Eve laws and bylaws, and we would still end up with people finding any little loophole or simply claiming that they didn't know because they couldn't be ass'd to read the Encyclopedia Britannica of Eve rules.
GM Homonia, I feel, has given a very well defined answer that suits the purpose very well. You guys are looking for a number and that will not work. I can easily give you several loophole scenario's when we base a rookie's status on just his age. It is better that they have more of a gray area where they can handle things case by case. Mean while I 'm sure you guys can step up a little and hunt players who are a couple months old, I'm fairly certain you may be able to handle them.

None of this would be an issue if people weren't pathetic enough to go shoot at rookies in the first place.

Seems pretty clear to me.

This.

Posting whines onto this thread about needing to clarify what is a rookie just shows how desperate so many people are to shoot rookies in the first place. The screams for definition are, as usual, requests for a way around the rules. Leave the rookies alone.

a 6yr vet who sets up a noob scout alt is not a noob. for god's sake listen to yourself. its like you never played this game.

You're missing the point. The complexity of law isn't necessary or applicable here. More to the point, complex rules would be unnecessary if the game were designed with noob protection in mind, instead of as an afterthought 9 years later.

Let me put it another way: most of you are talking about new PLAYERS, i.e. people who haven't played EVE before and need time to acclimate. The rest of us are talking about new CHARACTERS, who can be 6 yr vets or new players.

The issue here should be relatively obvious. If you make rules based on the age of the CHARACTER, then creative vets are going to use noob alts to stir up trouble or to make themselves immune to attack or, worse still, use them to get other people warned/banned.

It's reasonable to want to protect new PLAYERS, but creating random, vague, ill conceived, poorly implemented, inconsistently applied rules isn't going to do that. All it does is create minor **** storms like this one. If the goal of the rules is to protect new PLAYERS, then there should be a safe, insulated starting zone (preferably implemented as a "simulator" inside a station that you must graduate from to join the real eve), that allows real noobs to learn the game and its consequences without having to implement a bunch of halfass **** rules that never address the core issue: new player retention. As is typical for CCP (and, lets face it, many large bureaucracies), they're focused on the symptoms rather than the cause. At its root its the same issue that plagues EVE in many other ways, its an incredibly complicated game with no real user instructions.

So, yes, I agree we should protect new players. Everyone else can suck my Howitzer. Unless CCP wants to spend a LOT of time micromanaging new player relations in EVE, they need to walk this rule change back to something simple and easy to remember and then publish it. Something like, no pvp, no theft, no bumping, no griefing, no nothing in rookie systems and only rookie systems. All of you should expect to see an increase in "noobs" provoking you to see if they can get you banned.

Please explain, in detail, how you believe this is the case.

If a few older player's alts get protected under these new rules, what's the harm? CCP can probably tell when it's a true new account versus a newbie created on an older players account. Might lead to new rules on exploits. That's fine. Protecting rookie players is important enough that it has to happen even if it allows some older players to abuse the rookie protection.

Stay out of the rookie systems, and if you have to go to them don't go there with the intention of greifing / killing / stealing from the noobs..

It's not that hard, and if you're looking for cut and dry rules you won't get them. The Gm's likely use a heavy amount of judgement as not two situations in eve are the same.

If you wanna grief people, don't do it in the newb systems.. it is that simple.. you're over thinking it.

I'm still not understanding any kind of issue with the simple rule of don't mess with rookies?

You scan down a potential gank victim in high sec, check him out and he is a under a month old. Move on!

You find a procurer mining in high sec belt while your out ganking miners, check him. Under a month? Move on!

I'm still not understanding any kind of issue with the simple rule of don't mess with rookies?

You scan down a potential gank victim in high sec, check him out and he is a under a month old. Move on!



You find a procurer mining in high sec belt while your out ganking miners, check him. Under a month? Move on!

Rookie grabs your bait can? Let him leave!

What is wrong with any of that? Afraid it might be an alt gaining Intel on you.... in high sec? Seriously?

A rookie comes into your low sec/null system and hangs around longer than he should? Blast him. You might -maybe- get a warning sure,

I've been playing for under a month. I recently got into a fight in a belt in a rookie system with someone who had been playing for a week or two longer than I had. They were in a T1 cruiser and I was in a T1 frig. I won and got a "don't **** with the rookies" message.

Now I'm not saying that I think that it's okay for anyone and everyone to **** with rookies but I think that if someone has been playing for longer than you have and has a more powerful ship than you have, then they should be fair game. The rules as they stand make it very difficult for very new players to get into PvP and piracy.

I'm still not understanding any kind of issue with the simple rule of don't mess with rookies?

You scan down a potential gank victim in high sec, check him out and he is a under a month old. Move on!

You find a procurer mining in high sec belt while your out ganking miners, check him. Under a month? Move on!

Rookie grabs your bait can? Let him leave!

What is wrong with any of that? Afraid it might be an alt gaining Intel on you.... in high sec? Seriously?

A rookie comes into your low sec/null system and hangs around longer than he should? Blast him. You might -maybe- get a warning sure, then just kindly explain to the GM that he overstayed his welcome, or you warned him. Especially true if they happen to be attempting to follow you or just floating around outside a gate or station, for an extended period --read: like 10+ minutes--

Probably don't have to worry much about rookies in Null. I've seen many of Rookie ships left behind by the NPC gate guards.

Use your brain that's all the rule asks for, if your brain fails you then take the slap on the wrist and move on. Thanks to kill reports there is a clear difference between an "oops" every once in a great while and a supposed "oops" 4 times in the same day.

To add in about flagging Rookies in any form: Flagging Rookies only makes it easier to spot them for people who want to attack them. Yes this does make it easier to spot who is griefing them, but those that want to still will, and be more ruthless about it knowing they will be banned. Making them immune to aggression opens a windows for exploitation, the phrase "Your an idiot if you don't transport stuff using a rookie alt" would become extremely popular overnight. It happens in other games with similar mechanics.