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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
88
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Posted - 2012.04.25 22:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec?
why move them? I don't think denying null sec and high sec access to these non-end game missions is a good idea. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
596
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 22:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Better suggestion
Turn off all isk sources. - Bounties - Mission payouts
Double the standard subscription cost.
Double the cost of PLEX from CCP.
No one to keep the servers the running, as carebears can no longer get isk in highsec so they quit the game. Anyone left now has to pay twice as much for their subscription to cover the fact that half the population left. Anyone that needs isk to PVP, has to pay twice as much as well from anyone with the largest wallets in EVE. Everyone is screwed over.
Done, problem fixed. |
EmmaFromMarketing
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2012.04.25 22:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:When you do, Miilla
not much chance of that happening, so don't hold your breath.
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WarlockX
Free Trade Corp
1
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Posted - 2012.04.25 23:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Avid Bumhumper wrote:Mark Androcius wrote:Miilla wrote:Mark Androcius wrote:Better idea, move the HIGH QUALITY lvl4 gents to low-sec and keep the low quality ones in high. Low quality lvl4 agents, offer just a tiny bit more ( sometimes less even ) LP and ISK then high quality lvl3's. Didn't they level the quality of agents a few patches ago? Nope, i can still clearly see a huge difference in payout from one agent to the other. Well, never tested it, but that would be fairly consistent with CCP's sloppy programming. "We took away the agent quality display, but we didn't change the agents.: He's probably looking at: a) different missions which give different rewards, or b) different sec agents which give different rewards, or c) trolling Miilla... which is funny.
Or he's confused. Because there used to be two things that affected payout. Security rating of the system you are in and the quality of the agent. They took out the quality but the security of a system still is taken into account, so running a mission in a 0.5 > 1.0. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace n Quiet
45
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:When will posters on your ignore list no longer display topics either?
Hi Barakkus! Also, posting in a fail thread. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
289
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec? When they move lo sec to hi sec.
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Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
230
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec?
There are Level 4 missions in low sec. Nobody does them.
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Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
125
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
I get it. Miilla goes away miffed over where the game's goin', meditates in his basement, forms the Miilla EVE Improvement Society.
How many of these suggestions should we expect? I was going to go to Publix and watch them unload produce. Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
35
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:They would cry on the forums for a few weeks before licking their wounds and going onto L3s.
A carebear's only goal in EVE is to make enough money, to buy a ship to make more money with. As long as they are making money they really don't care about what they are doing.
This is like the first intelligent post i see regarding this argument since ever. Good job, shame nobody else understand this. |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
178
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Yatama Kautsuo wrote:half the people would probably stop play if this would happen... what's left then for the highsecbears to do? incursions, mining, industry, care-beaing it up in uber-safe 0.0, or maybe balling up and going to WH's. |
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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
881
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:When you do, Miilla That's all. |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Yatama Kautsuo wrote:half the people would probably stop play if this would happen... what's left then for the highsecbears to do? incursions, mining, industry, care-beaing it up in uber-safe 0.0, or maybe balling up and going to WH's.
0.0 and whs are not in line with the average high sec bear threshold of risk.
incursions mining and industry could never be profitable for every bear who's now missioning.
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MotherMoon
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
572
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Posted - 2012.04.26 00:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Seriously, this needs to happen, there needs to be a real reason to go to low sec.
So high people ca see an obvious HUGE reward for putting them selfs at risk. Make high sec where you limp home when you need to run missions and make money easy. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
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Posted - 2012.04.26 02:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Seriously, this needs to happen, there needs to be a real reason to go to low sec.
So high people ca see an obvious HUGE reward for putting them selfs at risk. Make high sec where you limp home when you need to run missions and make money easy.
Surprised at you Mothemoon, you've lived in low-sec long enough to know better.
There are plenty of reasons to go to low-sec and plenty of people who do; people who bleat about moving L4's to low-sec tend to be the people who prefer engaging pve'ers with pve fits rather than pvp'ers in pvp fits.
Keep L4's exactly where they are, there's enough cash, action and risk in low-sec if you have the remotest idea what you're doing.
Incursions do need to be removed from hi-sec though. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
11
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Posted - 2012.04.26 02:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec?
This is big pirates dream, camping gate and farming profitable missions with alts in same time... |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
231
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Posted - 2012.04.26 02:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Incursions are the first and to date only PvE that actually got people to fleet up in Hi sec so they need to be taken away.
No, they need to be used as a template. Willing to fleet is mandatory for PvP in the blob it cowboy game of EVE. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
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Posted - 2012.04.26 03:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Incursions are the first and to date only PvE that actually got people to fleet up in Hi sec so they need to be taken away.
No, they need to be used as a template. Willing to fleet is mandatory for PvP in the blob it cowboy game of EVE.
Aside from the fact that hi-sec players have been fleeting up to run 'The Blockade' since forever and mining tends to be a communal activity, there's nothing to stop the same players fleeting up for Incursions in low-sec.
Incursions in hi-sec are an oddity from a backstory, balance and market perspective as far as I've been able to tell upon my return and removing them from hi-sec and placing them in low-sec and null-sec (yes, null-sec) would make more sense to me. |
Endeavour Starfleet
812
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec?
How about we talk about it once we have a bunch of things fixed?
#1 Balance to AFK Cloaking. #2 Moon goo moved to NPCs or the true fix of ring mining. # 3 Fully modular corp and POS system in place.
And others.
Making highsec worse and worse is NOT going to make people flock to the crap that is null and lowsec. It is just going to cause them to suspend their accounts leaving devs with less funds to fix issues and improve the game.
There IS a time to make hisec crap. Now is not it. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
117
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Souvera Corvus wrote:Skydell wrote:Incursions are the first and to date only PvE that actually got people to fleet up in Hi sec so they need to be taken away.
No, they need to be used as a template. Willing to fleet is mandatory for PvP in the blob it cowboy game of EVE. Aside from the fact that hi-sec players have been fleeting up to run 'The Blockade' since forever and mining tends to be a communal activity, there's nothing to stop the same players fleeting up for Incursions in low-sec. Incursions in hi-sec are an oddity from a backstory, balance and market perspective as far as I've been able to tell upon my return and removing them from hi-sec and placing them in low-sec and null-sec (yes, null-sec) would make more sense to me. It would probably be better said that it's the only form of PvE that explicitly rewards cooperation. Mining does reward cooperation but not sure if that counts under the traditional sense of PvE.
From a lore perspective, how does someone attempting to get revenge upon the empires striking areas outside of those empires make sense?
They were just rebalanced, so would you still consider them an oddity in that respect?
No idea what you mean by calling them a market oddity. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
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Posted - 2012.04.26 03:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Souvera Corvus wrote:Skydell wrote:Incursions are the first and to date only PvE that actually got people to fleet up in Hi sec so they need to be taken away.
No, they need to be used as a template. Willing to fleet is mandatory for PvP in the blob it cowboy game of EVE. Aside from the fact that hi-sec players have been fleeting up to run 'The Blockade' since forever and mining tends to be a communal activity, there's nothing to stop the same players fleeting up for Incursions in low-sec. Incursions in hi-sec are an oddity from a backstory, balance and market perspective as far as I've been able to tell upon my return and removing them from hi-sec and placing them in low-sec and null-sec (yes, null-sec) would make more sense to me. It would probably be better said that it's the only form of PvE that explicitly rewards cooperation. Mining does reward cooperation but not sure if that counts under the traditional sense of PvE. From a lore perspective, how does someone attempting to get revenge upon the empires striking areas outside of those empires make sense? They were just rebalanced, so would you still consider them an oddity in that respect? No idea what you mean by calling them a market oddity.
Empires would not let individual capsuleers intervene on their behalf instead of sending a massive fleet in themselves and dealing with the comparatively small Sansha force on their own.
PVE is explicitly rewarded in L4 missions and mining is a form of co-operation where fleeting up is explicitly rewarded.
I've been looking at what are quite frankly ridiculous market prices and trying to source exactly where the issue lies. If you were to take the rise in the price of a Dominix for example; before I left some 6 -8 months ago 40-50 mil would be relatively normal now 90mil isn't unheard of. I thought that perhaps CCP's campaign against the botters might be to blame but then that would be reflected in much smaller mineral markets and much higher mineral costs and it doesn't seem to be. Mineral prices whilst higher by some 20% in terms of Tritanium and Pyerite (Trit 3.5, Pye 6.00) have not appreciated by anything like the same measure as finished products. Higher-end mineral prices don't seem to be remarkably different to when I left.
The only thing that changed it seems, and I may be wrong here and am happy for someone to point it out if I am, are the proliferation of Incursions in hi-sec and a resulting increase in player incomes and the amount of ISK washing around hi-sec.
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Lady Aja
44
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Posted - 2012.04.26 03:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec?
you are a fuckign idiot. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Ponies for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids
1074
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lady Aja wrote:Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec? you are a fuckign idiot.
Reported for circumventing the profanity filter and subjecting my virgin eyes to your obscene language |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
32
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Lady Aja wrote:Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec? you are a fuckign idiot. Reported for circumventing the profanity filter and subjecting my virgin eyes to your obscene language
He wasn't wrong though................. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
117
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
Souvera Corvus wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Souvera Corvus wrote:Skydell wrote:Incursions are the first and to date only PvE that actually got people to fleet up in Hi sec so they need to be taken away.
No, they need to be used as a template. Willing to fleet is mandatory for PvP in the blob it cowboy game of EVE. Aside from the fact that hi-sec players have been fleeting up to run 'The Blockade' since forever and mining tends to be a communal activity, there's nothing to stop the same players fleeting up for Incursions in low-sec. Incursions in hi-sec are an oddity from a backstory, balance and market perspective as far as I've been able to tell upon my return and removing them from hi-sec and placing them in low-sec and null-sec (yes, null-sec) would make more sense to me. It would probably be better said that it's the only form of PvE that explicitly rewards cooperation. Mining does reward cooperation but not sure if that counts under the traditional sense of PvE. From a lore perspective, how does someone attempting to get revenge upon the empires striking areas outside of those empires make sense? They were just rebalanced, so would you still consider them an oddity in that respect? No idea what you mean by calling them a market oddity. Empires would not let individual capsuleers intervene on their behalf instead of sending a massive fleet in themselves and dealing with the comparatively small Sansha force on their own. PVE is explicitly rewarded in L4 missions and mining is a form of co-operation where fleeting up is explicitly rewarded. I've been looking at what are quite frankly ridiculous market prices and trying to source exactly where the issue lies. If you were to take the rise in the price of a Dominix for example; before I left some 6 -8 months ago 40-50 mil would be relatively normal now 90mil isn't unheard of. I thought that perhaps CCP's campaign against the botters might be to blame but then that would be reflected in much smaller mineral markets and much higher mineral costs and it doesn't seem to be. Mineral prices whilst higher by some 20% in terms of Tritanium and Pyerite (Trit 3.5, Pye 6.00) have not appreciated by anything like the same measure as finished products. Higher-end mineral prices don't seem to be remarkably different to when I left. The only thing that changed it seems, and I may be wrong here and am happy for someone to point it out if I am, are the proliferation of Incursions in hi-sec and a resulting increase in player incomes and the amount of ISK washing around hi-sec. Current market prices being explained by incursions is a conclusion you can only come to by having lived under a rock for the past couple of months. Incursions were released well before the last 6-8 months (15 months ago if I recall correctly). You market conclusions are in a bubble that ignores the significant changes which have just occurred in 2 major ways of obtaining minerals which were announced in advance, allowing player reactions to exasperate the issue.
As for empire navies, they send me after pirates every day lurking in various highsec systems. They do so with several other capsuleers as well. How can you claim they wouldn't do something they do constantly?
Again, mining is not really PvE. Yes, it rewards grouping, but not in the same fashion. Lvl 4's I can't say I've ever noted a significant benefit from grouping. The split of LP rewards, which comprises a substantial portion of the overall profitability, is divided so that it is only marginally better than doing them solo. The rewards tend to diminish as more people are added as well. Not seeing nearly as great a push for cooperative efforts by way of incentives as we see in incursions. |
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
33
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Posted - 2012.04.26 04:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: Current market prices being explained by incursions is a conclusion you can only come to by having lived under a rock for the past couple of months. Incursions were released well before the last 6-8 months (15 months ago if I recall correctly). You market conclusions are in a bubble that ignores the significant changes which have just occurred in 2 major ways of obtaining minerals which were announced in advance, allowing player reactions to exasperate the issue.
As for empire navies, they send me after pirates every day lurking in various highsec systems. They do so with several other capsuleers as well. How can you claim they wouldn't do something they do constantly?
Again, mining is not really PvE. Yes, it rewards grouping, but not in the same fashion. Lvl 4's I can't say I've ever noted a significant benefit from grouping. The split of LP rewards, which comprises a substantial portion of the overall profitability, is divided so that it is only marginally better than doing them solo. The rewards tend to diminish as more people are added as well. Not seeing nearly as great a push for cooperative efforts by way of incentives as we see in incursions.
Living under a rock I may have but you haven't offered anything by way of an alternative or demonstrated that any of the assumptions I have made are incorrect; they may be operating in conjunction with other influences I haven't appreciated but you still haven't demonstrated that they are wrong. There is a disparity between mineral prices and manufactured goods that I can only assume are sourced in the amount of Isk that's washing around. If you have an alternative account that doesn't infer that I'm fond of more geological domestic arrangements, I'm all ears.
Your empire navy comment is confusing as it seems to be answering a question I didn't ask. Empire navies should be smashing incursions in hi-sec themselves.
The benefit from grouping, and I have to assume you're being wilfully stupid here, is that you can motor through missions far more quickly accruing LP's and rewards at an accelerated rate. We did so with Fed Navy 5's in Placid for 3-4 months and it was ridiculously easy with 4-5 guys in carriers cycling through agents and missions. You can also do this in corporation groupings which infers a greater benefit for the corporation itself than is available through Incursions with every man for themselves and the scrabble for the loot drops at the end.
There's more risk in low-sec of course and therein lies the source of resistance, I have constantly advocated that low-sec is a viable alternative to Null and hi-sec and in no need of dramatic change and that hi-sec should keep L4's but Incursions in hi-sec are, to me, incongruous and inflationary and people who insist on keeping them there in lieu of moving them to low-sec where they would be far more appropriate, are concerned more with risk and less with balance. |
stoicfaux
978
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 04:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Miilla wrote:When are level 4 missions being moved to lowsec? Move the 4s to lowsec and the 5s to high-sec. Level 5 missions are (supposed to be) group oriented which would encourage grouping in high-sec which leads to "safety in numbers" which leads to carebears (eventually) doing low-sec roams for grins and giggles with their new found confidence and friends. Assuming of course, that no one in your level 5 impromptu social PUG is a spy trying to lead you into a low-sec ambush.
Giggles are giggles either way.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
117
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Posted - 2012.04.26 05:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
Souvera Corvus wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Current market prices being explained by incursions is a conclusion you can only come to by having lived under a rock for the past couple of months. Incursions were released well before the last 6-8 months (15 months ago if I recall correctly). You market conclusions are in a bubble that ignores the significant changes which have just occurred in 2 major ways of obtaining minerals which were announced in advance, allowing player reactions to exasperate the issue
As for empire navies, they send me after pirates every day lurking in various highsec systems. They do so with several other capsuleers as well. How can you claim they wouldn't do something they do constantly
Again, mining is not really PvE. Yes, it rewards grouping, but not in the same fashion. Lvl 4's I can't say I've ever noted a significant benefit from grouping. The split of LP rewards, which comprises a substantial portion of the overall profitability, is divided so that it is only marginally better than doing them solo. The rewards tend to diminish as more people are added as well. Not seeing nearly as great a push for cooperative efforts by way of incentives as we see in incursions.
Living under a rock I may have but you haven't offered anything by way of an alternative or demonstrated that any of the assumptions I have made are incorrect; they may be operating in conjunction with other influences I haven't appreciated but you still haven't demonstrated that they are wrong. There is a disparity between mineral prices and manufactured goods that I can only assume are sourced in the amount of Isk that's washing around. If you have an alternative account that doesn't infer that I'm fond of more geological domestic arrangements, I'm all ears Your empire navy comment is confusing as it seems to be answering a question I didn't ask. Empire navies should be smashing incursions in hi-sec themselves The benefit from grouping, and I have to assume you're being wilfully stupid here, is that you can motor through missions far more quickly accruing LP's and rewards at an accelerated rate. We did so with Fed Navy 5's in Placid for 3-4 months and it was ridiculously easy with 4-5 guys in carriers cycling through agents and missions. You can also do this in corporation groupings which infers a greater benefit for the corporation itself than is available through Incursions with every man for themselves and the scrabble for the loot drops at the end There's more risk in low-sec of course and therein lies the source of resistance, I have constantly advocated that low-sec is a viable alternative to Null and hi-sec and in no need of dramatic change and that hi-sec should keep L4's but Incursions in hi-sec are, to me, incongruous and inflationary and people who insist on keeping them there in lieu of moving them to low-sec where they would be far more appropriate, are concerned more with risk and less with balance. You view on market perspective ignores the fact that prices did not gravitate to their current levels after their introduction as it should have if you accusation is to be believed. Look at all the trading history for minerals and you can see significant increases over the last 6 months. Again, incursions were introduced 15 months ago. Why such a sudden increase when incursion influences remained unchanged? Simple, it wasn't incursions. 2 major changes just happened this last patch. The removal of alloys from drones and the removal of meta 0 loot from NPC's. From market history where I am now, most minerals are up 50-100% from prices even 3 months ago. Most ships are not up that much, so I'm not seeing where the price increase isn't correlating with material increases as you claim
You made a comment about how empires wouldn't depend on capsuleers to do their dirty work. They did and still do. I addressed that directly
As far as time in missions, if you spit the reward evenly and finish in half the time, you made the same as doing it alone per person. I experienced this personally, missioning in groups didn't give a great increase like you seem to be suggesting it should. Incursions don't disincentivise cor participation either, and if you do have someone scrambling for loot, unless you are in the mom site, they will be sorely disappointed. The reward comes from working cohesively to complete the sites efficiently.
Given that one of the stated goals was to get people to get together and experience fleet activities with people who otherwise might never participate with others in such a setting means they were intended as much for highsec as anywhere else. |
Gantz Tleilax
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
69
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Posted - 2012.04.26 06:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Eve's "missions" are a bunch of monotonous crap. They should move all of them to another game entirely. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3820
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 06:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Do people have short memories or something?
LVL 4s where in low sec once upon a time and then oved back to high sec after lvl 5s where introduced.
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Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
33
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Posted - 2012.04.26 07:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
L4's are still in low-sec as far as I'm aware (Haven't done many recently) and they're better paid than the ones in hi-sec, the OP (Vicious troll that he is) suggested moving all them to low-sec to upset hi-sec bears like Tyberius
I still cannot see how 20-50% increases in mineral prices over a three month period (and a decrease in the case of Mexallon) lead to 100-120% increase in ship prices over the same period across most ship categories over the same time. I concede the point on eve-players anticipation of change kicking off the inflationary spiral to a degree. The key test will come if those prices are maintained over the next 3-6 months because Incursioners are awash with risk-free cash; if you don't have the cash you can't pay the price but trade volumes, according to eve-tools anyway, haven't dropped as the prices sky-rocketed and so hi-sec players have been absorbing the hit. (Megathron trade volume index for example
My experience is that 4-5 people cycling agents and completing missions as a group will make more over time than a single player doing them solo in terms of reward, LP, standing and faction standing and that holds true up to L5 and FW missions. If they aren't then they're doing it wrong.Hi-sec and L4's have always encouraged group participation, they are even i hear (god forbid) PVE corporations. I can't imagine much attraction in those if it were far easier to complete them on your own.They existed before Incursions and would if Incursions moved to low-sec I'd wager.
I have always suported L4's in hi-sec, I have always thought suicide-ganks were way too easy, that hi-sec dec bears lives should be made harder and that low-sec is great as it is and only needs the odd tweak here and there but incursions should not be in hi-sec
Put them in low-sec and I still think Tyberius and his friends would fleet up and I think they'd have more fun doing it as well. |
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