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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2004.08.11 08:17:00 -
[1]
in this game we have clones. easily dismissed as just the means for which to deal with the fact that in most cases permadeath in a game would very much NOT be fun.
but what if it were real... how would you feel about it? referencing to this short story/chronicle about how the replica isn't "you", that your "previous self" died... and your essentially a duplicate of that person a moment before he died.
of course the essence of these issues has been discussed before... but its still interesting, I think to hear how different people feel about different approaches on the concepts.
and piloting a ship with a Pod, Referencing here... (which happens to be my favorite of the short story/chronicles) we have ship control through neural immersion. becoming the ship... or part of the ship... controlling it with your thoughts, essentially...
if it were real... would you go for that? or want to be on a bridge looking at a view screen commanding a bridge crew face to face? Personally I think the idea of neural immersion like that would be very cool. and it'd be a fascinating experience.
how about you?
any thoughts? anyone else weird enough to actually think about this junk? do you imagine yourself piloting/captain-ing your ship?
and in that sorta situation,... do you think you'd feel pain when the ship took damage, as you would if your physical body were taking damage?
~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2004.08.11 08:17:00 -
[2]
in this game we have clones. easily dismissed as just the means for which to deal with the fact that in most cases permadeath in a game would very much NOT be fun.
but what if it were real... how would you feel about it? referencing to this short story/chronicle about how the replica isn't "you", that your "previous self" died... and your essentially a duplicate of that person a moment before he died.
of course the essence of these issues has been discussed before... but its still interesting, I think to hear how different people feel about different approaches on the concepts.
and piloting a ship with a Pod, Referencing here... (which happens to be my favorite of the short story/chronicles) we have ship control through neural immersion. becoming the ship... or part of the ship... controlling it with your thoughts, essentially...
if it were real... would you go for that? or want to be on a bridge looking at a view screen commanding a bridge crew face to face? Personally I think the idea of neural immersion like that would be very cool. and it'd be a fascinating experience.
how about you?
any thoughts? anyone else weird enough to actually think about this junk? do you imagine yourself piloting/captain-ing your ship?
and in that sorta situation,... do you think you'd feel pain when the ship took damage, as you would if your physical body were taking damage?
~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake |
hired goon
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Posted - 2004.08.11 08:47:00 -
[3]
I am my ship. I feel the pain and when drones buzz around me I scream "Get them off! They're in my hair! THEY'RE IN MY HAIR!"
On another note, permadeath in eve would be cool. It would make a carebear out of everyone and make people think twice before becoming a pirate n00b ganker.
On the philosofinophical side of things, I have worried sometimes how this clone-culture makes people immortal. ------------
We come in peace. And tanks. |
hired goon
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Posted - 2004.08.11 08:47:00 -
[4]
I am my ship. I feel the pain and when drones buzz around me I scream "Get them off! They're in my hair! THEY'RE IN MY HAIR!"
On another note, permadeath in eve would be cool. It would make a carebear out of everyone and make people think twice before becoming a pirate n00b ganker.
On the philosofinophical side of things, I have worried sometimes how this clone-culture makes people immortal. ------------
We come in peace. And tanks. |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.08.11 09:16:00 -
[5]
isnt the replica you? it looks like you, talks like you, thinks like you.. i'd say its you. you dont say you are a different person if you have a heart transplant. how about if you then get a new kidney. after that a new hip, new lungs, new liver. is there a point where you stop being yourself? perhaps the brain? i dont think so.. i consider it a full body transplant, and you keep on living regardless of how the transplant was performed. after all.. that new heart becomes your very own, even though the procedure to put it there was far from natural. and in the same way this new body is your very own.
My Idea Thread Give Drones Love! |
Cutter John
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Posted - 2004.08.11 09:16:00 -
[6]
isnt the replica you? it looks like you, talks like you, thinks like you.. i'd say its you. you dont say you are a different person if you have a heart transplant. how about if you then get a new kidney. after that a new hip, new lungs, new liver. is there a point where you stop being yourself? perhaps the brain? i dont think so.. i consider it a full body transplant, and you keep on living regardless of how the transplant was performed. after all.. that new heart becomes your very own, even though the procedure to put it there was far from natural. and in the same way this new body is your very own.
My Idea Thread Give Drones Love! |
Tacnafarias
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Posted - 2004.08.11 10:21:00 -
[7]
But the clone wouldn't have gone through those few moments of fear before actual death, so if a person is shaped by their experinces the clone is a differnt person that *happens* to look talk and walk like you. But then again, the person that died wouldn't be a person...there's something to ponder.
And personally I think people would go crazy if they had their ship inside their head.
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Tacnafarias
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Posted - 2004.08.11 10:21:00 -
[8]
But the clone wouldn't have gone through those few moments of fear before actual death, so if a person is shaped by their experinces the clone is a differnt person that *happens* to look talk and walk like you. But then again, the person that died wouldn't be a person...there's something to ponder.
And personally I think people would go crazy if they had their ship inside their head.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.08.11 10:45:00 -
[9]
Hmmm, you could be onto something here. Nobody ever said the cloning process was perfect, who knows what hidden trauma could be caused by repeatedly waking up in a new body.
It could explain why so many meek little carebears suddenly turn into nasty pirates after a good podding or two.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.08.11 10:45:00 -
[10]
Hmmm, you could be onto something here. Nobody ever said the cloning process was perfect, who knows what hidden trauma could be caused by repeatedly waking up in a new body.
It could explain why so many meek little carebears suddenly turn into nasty pirates after a good podding or two.
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Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.11 10:47:00 -
[11]
Bridge... ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.11 10:47:00 -
[12]
Bridge... ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Graelyn
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:20:00 -
[13]
Well, I'll share a bit of what goes on in MY mind's eye....
On my warships, the bridge level sits directly on top of the pod chamber. On top of the chamber is the Comand Area, where I stand and give orders to my crew in times where manual control is acceptable, or when little threat of danger is present. (mining for instance)
However, when danger seems near, the platform will lower me into the pod area, where I shall prepare to do what I am trained to. When the transfer from shipwide manual to pod command is completed, a hologram of me is present in the spot where I would usually stand, allowing the bridgecrew to see me, and for me to give orders to them, as not every tiny shipborad function is important enough to warrant my attention at all times.
Minister - Public Affairs AEGIS MILITIA ATCR Forums |
Graelyn
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:20:00 -
[14]
Well, I'll share a bit of what goes on in MY mind's eye....
On my warships, the bridge level sits directly on top of the pod chamber. On top of the chamber is the Comand Area, where I stand and give orders to my crew in times where manual control is acceptable, or when little threat of danger is present. (mining for instance)
However, when danger seems near, the platform will lower me into the pod area, where I shall prepare to do what I am trained to. When the transfer from shipwide manual to pod command is completed, a hologram of me is present in the spot where I would usually stand, allowing the bridgecrew to see me, and for me to give orders to them, as not every tiny shipborad function is important enough to warrant my attention at all times.
Minister - Public Affairs AEGIS MILITIA ATCR Forums |
Graelyn
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:25:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Graelyn on 11/08/2004 12:27:28 As for cloning, a religious Amarr like me does have problems with it. The Emperor himself is never cloned, you might notice, and my character sees good reason for that, as thier is no guarantee that the very soul of a captain does not die with the original body....
I try very hard never to be podded for that reason, and thus far never have been....the day I am will be tough on my char, but as a 'soulless' clone, I would probably simply see to it that I continue on the work of the 'real' me. A living, breathing memorial to the Man Graelyn was.....
(edit: added a paragraph)
Minister - Public Affairs AEGIS MILITIA ATCR Forums |
Graelyn
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Graelyn on 11/08/2004 12:27:28 As for cloning, a religious Amarr like me does have problems with it. The Emperor himself is never cloned, you might notice, and my character sees good reason for that, as thier is no guarantee that the very soul of a captain does not die with the original body....
I try very hard never to be podded for that reason, and thus far never have been....the day I am will be tough on my char, but as a 'soulless' clone, I would probably simply see to it that I continue on the work of the 'real' me. A living, breathing memorial to the Man Graelyn was.....
(edit: added a paragraph)
Minister - Public Affairs AEGIS MILITIA ATCR Forums |
Sworne
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:27:00 -
[17]
Ahh. Lay off the mindflood! |
Sworne
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:27:00 -
[18]
Ahh. Lay off the mindflood! |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:37:00 -
[19]
I've always wondered how they make identical clones look different when you're cloned - different age, different race, different body build, different facial structure, different hair color... but I guess that's one of the reasons why you have to make a contract - it has to be a clone that's customized for you.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.08.11 12:37:00 -
[20]
I've always wondered how they make identical clones look different when you're cloned - different age, different race, different body build, different facial structure, different hair color... but I guess that's one of the reasons why you have to make a contract - it has to be a clone that's customized for you.
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Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.08.11 13:07:00 -
[21]
In the Jovian wet grave, the pilot says he can 'feel' the crew walking in the ship, so I imagine you could feel pain, but in the same way you can feel a knife when in surgery. The idea of controlling a starship through your thoughts is also quite appealing. I'd go for that sure.
As to the cloning issue, I would think the clone is 'you', but that argument easily wanders into matters of the soul.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.08.11 13:07:00 -
[22]
In the Jovian wet grave, the pilot says he can 'feel' the crew walking in the ship, so I imagine you could feel pain, but in the same way you can feel a knife when in surgery. The idea of controlling a starship through your thoughts is also quite appealing. I'd go for that sure.
As to the cloning issue, I would think the clone is 'you', but that argument easily wanders into matters of the soul.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Vicarrah
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:21:00 -
[23]
I'm a lover of PermaDeath. I actually got podded for the first time last night, now I'm doing something RP wise to try and explain how I feel about it, have a read if you feel like it.
I'm also a great fan of virtual environments and direct neural connection stuff, I've just finished reading Tad Williams' Otherland series (again) which is a must read if you like near-future virtual vision quest type stuff
at some stage soon, I'm going to try and write some stream-of consciousness type stuff, particularly in regard to ship/soul/body connection. I saw a neat trick in a book a while back, with two columns of two completely different stories, arranged in a kind of timeline going down the page, the bits where the two stories inter-twined got really interesting , and it could be cool to run a couple of ingame channel logs down the side of a stream of conscious ship/self thought...
Vicarrah Tahiri Protector |
Vicarrah
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:21:00 -
[24]
I'm a lover of PermaDeath. I actually got podded for the first time last night, now I'm doing something RP wise to try and explain how I feel about it, have a read if you feel like it.
I'm also a great fan of virtual environments and direct neural connection stuff, I've just finished reading Tad Williams' Otherland series (again) which is a must read if you like near-future virtual vision quest type stuff
at some stage soon, I'm going to try and write some stream-of consciousness type stuff, particularly in regard to ship/soul/body connection. I saw a neat trick in a book a while back, with two columns of two completely different stories, arranged in a kind of timeline going down the page, the bits where the two stories inter-twined got really interesting , and it could be cool to run a couple of ingame channel logs down the side of a stream of conscious ship/self thought...
Vicarrah Tahiri Protector |
flummox
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:30:00 -
[25]
my ship has a crew of one... me!
it's a lonely life...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:30:00 -
[26]
my ship has a crew of one... me!
it's a lonely life...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Wyckoff
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: flummox my ship has a crew of one... me!
I agree. Why would ships need crew with a pod being able to handle everything.
[Pilot in Pod]: Attention Crew, I'm going AFK for a sec, phone call.
Warning! Warning! Pirates 45k and closing! Warning! Warning!
[Crew Member]: Cap'n! We're under attack! Raise the Hardeners and come about!
[Pilot in Pod]: . . . .
[Crew Member]: Cap'n?! God help us, we are doomed!
Ship is destroyed, the crew is lost, but amidst the wreckage there is a sign of life...
[Pilot in Pod]: Sorry about that, I'm back, it was my...WTF! Where the hell is my ship! Oh well...looks like I will need a new crew...
And does the crew get clones? ______________ "I Type with my Tongue" |
Wyckoff
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: flummox my ship has a crew of one... me!
I agree. Why would ships need crew with a pod being able to handle everything.
[Pilot in Pod]: Attention Crew, I'm going AFK for a sec, phone call.
Warning! Warning! Pirates 45k and closing! Warning! Warning!
[Crew Member]: Cap'n! We're under attack! Raise the Hardeners and come about!
[Pilot in Pod]: . . . .
[Crew Member]: Cap'n?! God help us, we are doomed!
Ship is destroyed, the crew is lost, but amidst the wreckage there is a sign of life...
[Pilot in Pod]: Sorry about that, I'm back, it was my...WTF! Where the hell is my ship! Oh well...looks like I will need a new crew...
And does the crew get clones? ______________ "I Type with my Tongue" |
Vicarrah
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:58:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Vicarrah on 11/08/2004 15:02:11 I'm really not sure why we need a crew either, it is a bit of a strange situation to have an elevated consciousness acting through human intermediaries.
Vicarrah Tahiri Protector |
Vicarrah
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:58:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Vicarrah on 11/08/2004 15:02:11 I'm really not sure why we need a crew either, it is a bit of a strange situation to have an elevated consciousness acting through human intermediaries.
Vicarrah Tahiri Protector |
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