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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Dante Regulas
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 15:56:00 -
[91] - Quote
What needs to be fixed is station games. Too often the wartarget in the corp that wardec'd you will dock back up when they hit structure, even when they are webbed and scrammed. Just another reason why highsec is a cesspool. |
Ned Black
Driders
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:42:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Please note that we will completely overhaul the current wardec mechanics with the Inferno expansion on May 22. A good insight into our plans were first published during Fanfest 2012, the presentation and discussion is available here.
I haven't wathced that one yet, and I currently dont have the time to do it, but I will, i did read the blog howerver, but what I say here may be a bit off.
Anyway. Wardecs are currently a licence to bully, at leas that is what they are used for most.
Most people that declares war go up against people who have no means of defending themselves, wether they lack skills, lack the will to fight or whatever it is still the same. Currently the only real defence is corp hopping, and as we all know the wardeccers dont like that one bit..
To me who have been in a few wars the things that basicly annoyed the living crap out of me are two things.
Station games and neutral reppers. Basicly, fix those and you fix the war mechanics to a big extent.
First station games. I seriously would like it if you are at war and fire at one of your target you should not be able to dock up unless that wartarget unlocks you for whatever reason (if it is running away or getting killed does not matter). If you shoot two targets then both must unlock you. No disengagement timer before docking or anything like that, only complete comittment from the moment you fire until the enemy is either dead or have flead the field. As long as you dont shoot however you should be able to dock up as much as you want.
Second neutral reppers. I think neutral repping should be allowed... it is a viable tactic... but it should not be the way it is now where you can rep someone in a war, go dock up and wait 15 minutes and then come back out and fly in circles around the guys on the opposite side and they can do nothing about it. What I would like to see here is that if you do the neutral repper then you become part of the war. That is, the other side can shoot you at any time for as long as the war lasts... the twist however is taht the neutral repper can not initiate aggression. This would probably not discount neutral reppers, but after that they are also fully comitted as it should be.
In my experience wardeccers always talk about comittment from their targets... I want to give them that comittment. |
Dante Regulas
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 16:57:00 -
[93] - Quote
Ned Black wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:Please note that we will completely overhaul the current wardec mechanics with the Inferno expansion on May 22. A good insight into our plans were first published during Fanfest 2012, the presentation and discussion is available here. First station games. I seriously would like it if you are at war and fire at one of your target you should not be able to dock up unless that wartarget unlocks you for whatever reason (if it is running away or getting killed does not matter). If you shoot two targets then both must unlock you. No disengagement timer before docking or anything like that, only complete comittment from the moment you fire until the enemy is either dead or have flead the field. As long as you dont shoot however you should be able to dock up as much as you want. Second neutral reppers. I think neutral repping should be allowed... it is a viable tactic... but it should not be the way it is now where you can rep someone in a war, go dock up and wait 15 minutes and then come back out and fly in circles around the guys on the opposite side and they can do nothing about it. What I would like to see here is that if you do the neutral repper then you become part of the war. That is, the other side can shoot you at any time for as long as the war lasts... the twist however is taht the neutral repper can not initiate aggression. This would probably not discount neutral reppers, but after that they are also fully comitted as it should be. In my experience wardeccers always talk about comittment from their targets... I want to give them that comittment.
It shouldnt be that they have to unlock you. If I have someone webbed and scrammed, they should have to be able to fight back or die honorably. When the wardec aggressor can dock up, repair, and come back out in 30 seconds everytime you get him structure. Thats broken.
If you are locked, and somehow arnt webbed or scramed, and manage to dock, thats fine.
I fully agree with the second part however. Neutral repping should make you and your corp open to attack for the duration of the war. |
Pinstar Colton
New Lunar Republic Special Tactics Squadron
7
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:37:00 -
[94] - Quote
Simple Solution:
Tie War Decs to POSes.
If you do not own a POS, you cannot declare war...or have war declared on you. If you have a POS and have war declared on you, you cannot dismantle your POS... you must defend it or lose it, including all of the modules you had fitted to it. If you have a POS and your last one gets blown up, the war ends immediately in defeat. If you blow up your attacker's last POS, the war ends in victory.
Players who do not want to run the risk of war decs will have to forgoe the reward of POS ownership. By requireing attacking corps to own a POS, it ensures they have property at stake to lose in case the defender actually fights back.
For players who are content to carebear on their own or in small indy corps and not own property beyond their ships and goods, they are protected from griefers who are looking to free and easy kills. |
Zyress
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:44:00 -
[95] - Quote
Dante Regulas wrote:What needs to be fixed is station games. Too often the wartarget in the corp that wardec'd you will dock back up when they hit structure, even when they are webbed and scrammed. Just another reason why highsec is a cesspool.
A web makes you slower and a scram disables your MWD and prevents warping unless you have more than 2 points of warp stability, neither of those would prevent you from docking if you are in range. Working as intended. |
Dante Regulas
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:11:00 -
[96] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Dante Regulas wrote:What needs to be fixed is station games. Too often the wartarget in the corp that wardec'd you will dock back up when they hit structure, even when they are webbed and scrammed. Just another reason why highsec is a cesspool. A web makes you slower and a scram disables your MWD and prevents warping unless you have more than 2 points of warp stability, neither of those would prevent you from docking if you are in range. Working as intended.
Says stationgames alt..
That may be, but my point is, once aggressed, you should not be able to dock and hide. I've used it to my advantage before to get hulks and orca's out of harms way, but it should be done away with. |
Zyress
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 19:14:00 -
[97] - Quote
Dante Regulas wrote:Zyress wrote:Dante Regulas wrote:What needs to be fixed is station games. Too often the wartarget in the corp that wardec'd you will dock back up when they hit structure, even when they are webbed and scrammed. Just another reason why highsec is a cesspool. A web makes you slower and a scram disables your MWD and prevents warping unless you have more than 2 points of warp stability, neither of those would prevent you from docking if you are in range. Working as intended. Says stationgames alt.. That may be, but my point is, once aggressed, you should not be able to dock and hide. I've used it to my advantage before to get hulks and orca's out of harms way, but it should be done away with.
LoL This is my main and no I haven't been in a hi-sec war for a very long time. |
Ned Black
Driders
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 19:20:00 -
[98] - Quote
Dante Regulas wrote:Ned Black wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:Please note that we will completely overhaul the current wardec mechanics with the Inferno expansion on May 22. A good insight into our plans were first published during Fanfest 2012, the presentation and discussion is available here. First station games. I seriously would like it if you are at war and fire at one of your target you should not be able to dock up unless that wartarget unlocks you for whatever reason (if it is running away or getting killed does not matter). If you shoot two targets then both must unlock you. No disengagement timer before docking or anything like that, only complete comittment from the moment you fire until the enemy is either dead or have flead the field. As long as you dont shoot however you should be able to dock up as much as you want. Second neutral reppers. I think neutral repping should be allowed... it is a viable tactic... but it should not be the way it is now where you can rep someone in a war, go dock up and wait 15 minutes and then come back out and fly in circles around the guys on the opposite side and they can do nothing about it. What I would like to see here is that if you do the neutral repper then you become part of the war. That is, the other side can shoot you at any time for as long as the war lasts... the twist however is taht the neutral repper can not initiate aggression. This would probably not discount neutral reppers, but after that they are also fully comitted as it should be. In my experience wardeccers always talk about comittment from their targets... I want to give them that comittment. It shouldnt be that they have to unlock you. If I have someone webbed and scrammed, they should have to be able to fight back or die honorably. When the wardec aggressor can dock up, repair, and come back out in 30 seconds everytime you get him structure. Thats broken. If you are locked, and somehow arnt webbed or scramed, and manage to dock, thats fine. I fully agree with the second part however. Neutral repping should make you and your corp open to attack for the duration of the war.
Well, the reason for the unlocking is because if you are the aggressor and attack someone and they target you back then you are locked out of the station as the aggressor. As long as the target does not shoot you it is not aggressing and as such can dock up. The second the target shoots back however its the initial aggressor that has to unlock the initial target before that guy can dock.
This way you as the target have the choice to deagress and dock up. The aggressor does not have that luxuary. If you commit to the fight however you are as much all in as the initial aggressor. That is about as fair as you will ever see in a fight like that.
If you want lore about it just say that the docking manager does not want to bring fights into the station and tells you that you need to sort your business outside. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 20:42:00 -
[99] - Quote
Shandir wrote:
Maybe we should address the reason that players jump corp first? There is *no* reason for the defender to fight, they cannot win the war, they can only draw (in discouraging the attacker from continuing the war). There is no circumstance under which the attacker has a real fear of wardeccing the wrong target.
This is really important. Its the same issue with suicide ganking. The attacker decides what to risk, and with proper planning will at worst break even. You can't strike first because as pointed out in this post the wardeccing pilots can just join the corp when they're ready to fight. If the defenders switch to pvp ships, the attackers can just bring more dudes, or wait till they go back to mining/pveing. |
Shandir
Indigo Archive
122
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 21:28:00 -
[100] - Quote
When writing corp war mechanics you need to provide for 4 realistic options:
Fight and Win - Currently this is impossible (yes, really - how can the defender gain something) Fight and Lose - This is possible. Hide - This is possible, and more appealing than Lose. Surrender - This is useless at current as it makes you a bigger target and provides no protection from future decs. The changes planned have no real effect on this.
So this leaves only the two realistic options: Fight and Lose, or Hide. Hiding costs less but is boring. Hiding discourages future decs, so is long term beneficial, too. This is why many corps choose to hide rather than fight. Hiding includes corp hopping or decshielding, or alliance war-shedding. All of these are bad options, but better than the alternative of fighting a war that you cannot win. |
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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
186
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Posted - 2012.04.27 21:59:00 -
[101] - Quote
High sec wars are nothing more than a griefing tool, as real pvp'ers dont live in highsec. Nothing in highsec would change at all if high sec wars were removed. Ganks would still happen, people would still derp in missions, and proper pvp would still happen in Low, Null and Wormholes.
Simply reduce the number of High sec systems and Increase Low Sec rewards, say by 50% cause space in lowsec is Dangerous. Not really but I live their so more money is nice. |
Rekon X
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:41:00 -
[102] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Simple Solution:
Tie War Decs to POSes.
Yea, wars in the real world are about something other than griefing or someone looking for easy targets.
War in this game has no meaning, no real objective and is about as useful as bounties. I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:07:00 -
[103] - Quote
Klotzak wrote:I think this solution couldw work.
At the moment a corp gets deced, all members get flagged for war and remain flagged until the war ends. The flag carries over with the player despite corp change. Problem solved.
So in your solution a play that joins an NPC corp could still be wardecked & it goes only one way. They can be hit but can not hit back. Nice F U too Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:24:00 -
[104] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:I've said it before, war decs target corps and thats exactly what you get! Corps can be empty one moment and full the next.
I've suggested that the war dec should target the players within the corp from the moment the war declaration is made. Thus each and every player has a 24 hour notice period + 7 day war aggression timer. This timer stays with them if they leave the corp. After the first week and if the war is renewed, the corperation again defines the group of players e.g. it's members that recive a further 7 days aggression timers. This is borderline with griefing.
The petition lines will get filled, if this ever was implemented. |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:31:00 -
[105] - Quote
D Program wrote:Havent you guys read any of the Inferno features?
With the new wardec system, all members who leave a corp in a war, will take that war with them, they still will be at war until the war ends. Same with corps leaving alliances. Umm no. What you are saying is applying only to corps not to their members.
As for the proposed solution of forcing someone to undock, when he is alone and there are a lot more war targets right outside waiting for their easy kill, it defies the very nature of sandbox that EVE is.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
501
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:39:00 -
[106] - Quote
Aggressors leaving and rejoining to evade camps isn't actually particularly common, but the people who do that sort of thing abuse it endlessly. I'm kind of on the fence as it whether or not it really needs a mechanics change because I think from a general gameplay perspective it's better for people to have the freedom to join and leave corps at will with as little bullshit as possible.
A bigger problem is being able to accept people into corp while they are logged on and in space. That **** is no good and they need to make it so you can't do it. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:50:00 -
[107] - Quote
Klotzak wrote:I think this solution couldw work.
At the moment a corp gets deced, all members get flagged for war and remain flagged until the war ends. The flag carries over with the player despite corp change. Problem solved.
Require the corp members of a dec'ing corp to remain in that corp for one year; only way out is biomass.
See, I can do stupid suggestions, too. Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Notta Monsta
Almost Human.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:59:00 -
[108] - Quote
I've been playing Eve for quite a few years now, one of my main accounts is from 2003 and I have yet to be forced to play my game as others want me too and that should never change.
My main corp is pure pve based and this corp is one of the few I have setting around that I could run too when a dec come along. After the wardec "fix" later this month when a dec comes along I will take down my POS and drop out to an NPC corp and continue to do my thing (minus the use of the POS now) till the dec goes away. The only way a wardec will hurt me after the "fix" is that I will lose the use of my POS, which actually would kinda suck as it does help generate a fair bit of ISK.
Here's a weird thought: What if it was possible for an indi corp to dec a pvp corp and they were forced to put up a POS to do research, mine, manufacture and make lots of ISK instead of what they wanted to do (pvp). I'm sure the pvp corps would want a way out so they could play Eve the way they want too am I right?
I can pvp but haven't done it in forever (don't wanna), done WH/null/low sec large alliances etc. and to me it all sux as there is too much childish drama. I'm an older dude that just wants to play how I want to play and not be forced to do what others think I should be doing, if one day I am forced to play how others think I should be playing sadly I will have no choice but find another game to move on to, hopefully that will never happen as I love Eve and is my 1st and only MMO I've ever wanted play. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:20:00 -
[109] - Quote
You guys are totally not getting it. People are dropping corps to avoid your war decs. To me all this say is you're war deccing the wrong people. Even if you want to wardec pure indy corps with no interest in pvp, you've got to give them an incentive to stay in the corp and deal with the war straight up. Whether its by switching to pvp ships, hiring mercs or just hiding from war targets.
Maybe you could have bonuses for being in a corp, that have to be built up slowly over the corp's existence, and over membership in the corp. This creates the incentive to atleast *try* and stick it out in the corp, and as a side benefit might get people out of NPC corps. On the other hand people might just play on alts or play other games or do stuff while docked.
Maybe also add more incentives for indy corps to set up and defend high sec POSes, and they might be tempted to give this war business a shot.
You'd also need to add a win condition for the defender's side. And for that to work, the attacker has to be forced to put something more on the line than a handful of ISK and a dedicated combat pilot. If he's not atleast a little bit worried about the prospect of the defending indy corp having deep pockets, hiring a bigger merc corp and pinning him into an unfavourable war, the system isn't working right. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 22:32:00 -
[110] - Quote
Notta Monsta wrote: After the wardec "fix" later this month when a dec comes along I will take down my POS and drop out to an NPC corp and continue to do my thing (minus the use of the POS now) till the dec goes away. The only way a wardec will hurt me after the "fix" is that I will lose the use of my POS, which actually would kinda suck as it does help generate a fair bit of ISK.
.
\o/ all HI SEC POS's will be safe
Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 22:42:00 -
[111] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Kobal81 wrote:HTFU I say CCP should make it so that you can Force War Targets out of stations. Force them to commit to a fight.
i say CCP should make it so that you can force alts to post from their main, force them to commit a spine to what they say. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
23
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Posted - 2012.05.02 22:44:00 -
[112] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote: 1. Either CCP allow War Targets to be kicked out of station so my friends and I can beat them to a pulp.
Dafuq? No... just no... gtfo.
Parsee789 wrote: 2. Or fix the Corp Hopping scheme going on.
They should not be able to join or leave a war dec corp instantly. They should have to wait perhaps 24 hours before they can leave or join a wardecced corp.
This is the only vaguely reasonable part of your post, and this needs implementing asap. |
Nephilius
Knights of Athena Star Council
384
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 00:59:00 -
[113] - Quote
Knot'Kul Sun wrote:locked in corp if corp is at war
This is the most that CCP can do. I, for one, support this. To call me a Carebear is a misnomer...while it is true that I am hairy like a bear (or two russian women), I really don't care.-á Like, at all.-á Call me an Apathybear.-á Just don't call if you need assistance. |
Notta Monsta
Almost Human.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 01:56:00 -
[114] - Quote
Nephilius wrote:Knot'Kul Sun wrote:locked in corp if corp is at war This is the most that CCP can do. I, for one, support this.
All that would accomplish is older players like myself using up stashed away PLEX while station skilling or newer people leaving the game completely (if they didn't want to fight) cuz they couldn't play.
I support the idea of wardecs but locking toons in a corp under war is a bit harsh.
I don't understand why players who complain about how bad the wardec system is don't get together and pew each other, you are the ones wanting to fight so why not fight each other and let others play Eve as they would like? Unless all you guys want is no skill kills then I guess more power to ya if that is what floats your boat. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
549
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 02:00:00 -
[115] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Kobal81 wrote:HTFU I say CCP should make it so that you can Force War Targets out of stations. Force them to commit to a fight.
only if concord kills you for attacking war targets.
highsec wars are lame, go to lowsec or HTFU |
Adria Origin
Yar Har Fiddle Di Dee
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 02:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Please note that we will completely overhaul the current wardec mechanics with the Inferno expansion on May 22. A good insight into our plans were first published during Fanfest 2012, the presentation and discussion is available here. My concern with the dev blog post (didn't see the video, no audio for the moment) is that being in a corp with a perpetual war dec effectively locks you into (or out of) being in that corp.
"We're also looking into not allowing you to join a corp you've left during a war while that war is still ongoing."
Consider large null alliances that are in perpetual war dec. This effectively locks out members that occasionally jump to highsec corps to do highsec things. Occasionally I join my friends highsec corp and help him with his wardecs. With this mechanic that is no longer possible. In this case you'd actually be preventing someone from partaking in a war as the dec system has no effect on a nullsec alliance. If I cannot help my friend I have no reason to go to highsec and therefore would not be a target to the deccing alliance anyway.
I'm also wonder what happens with corps like red vs blue. If you left you could never rejoin.
I support doing things to prevent corp hopping but there are times when it's legit to change corps on the fly, even if the involved corps are at war. I do support a cool down timer of 24 hours to leave a war decced corp. Sorta like corp stasis? But only if it doesn't require joining an NPC corp. My corp history is cluttered enough without throwing in an NPC corp in-between. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
283
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 02:26:00 -
[117] - Quote
Fundamentally High Sec needs to become much more dangerous (beyond just suicide gankers) or it has to have it's PvE completely gutted. I prefer the former. A robust Wardec system; Removal of CONCORD from Incursion systems or a removal of Incursions; Level 4 missions and possible level 3 being tied into a Faction War system; 4/10 exploration sites exclusively to lowsec; and much heavier penalties on being in an NPC corp
As to the OP if there's any fix to corp hoping it should apply equally to both the wardcer and the wardeced, or not at all. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
902
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 03:28:00 -
[118] - Quote
Adria Origin wrote: I support doing things to prevent corp hopping but there are times when it's legit to change corps on the fly, even if the involved corps are at war. I do support a cool down timer of 24 hours to leave a war decced corp. Sorta like corp stasis? But only if it doesn't require joining an NPC corp. My corp history is cluttered enough without throwing in an NPC corp in-between.
Putting a simple timer on corp hopping is the easiest solution. Make it so that you can't change corps more often then once every 24h. Possibly a 48h or 72h timer if you dropped out of a corp with an *outbound* wardec.
Make it so that the change doesn't take effect until either the next session change or downtime (whichever comes first). That (mostly) fixes the exploit where you can become a valid wartarget while out in space, but still also allows directors to kick players who refuse to dock (it just won't take effect until downtime).
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Katalci
Creative Cookie Procuring Veto Corp
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 03:33:00 -
[119] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:1. Either CCP allow War Targets to be kicked out of station so my friends and I can beat them to a pulp.
ahahhaha someone's uncreative |
Notta Monsta
Almost Human.
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 03:44:00 -
[120] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Fundamentally High Sec needs to become much more dangerous (beyond just suicide gankers) or it has to have it's PvE completely gutted. I prefer the former. A robust Wardec system; Removal of CONCORD from Incursion systems or a removal of Incursions; Level 4 missions and possible level 3 being tied into a Faction War system; 4/10 exploration sites exclusively to lowsec; and much heavier penalties on being in an NPC corp
As to the OP if there's any fix to corp hoping it should apply equally to both the wardcer and the wardeced, or not at all.
If highsec become any "less safe" player base would drop, if it become anything like you mentioned above people like myself would go away all together, that would mean far less no skill kills for players like you and most importantly less RL money for CCP so nothing like that will never happen. Not to mention the prices of most everything that we manufacture in highsec would skyrocket as nobody would be producing anything cuz we would be too busy playing another persons game and not our own.
It seems to me that most who complain about how easy it is to get out of a wardec just want easy kills so why would you want to make it harder for us carebears to get a foot hold in highsec? If you were my prey I would want to make it as easy as I possibly could to get you to play in my backyard so I could shoot you from my deck in my undies. |
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