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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
128th ABC123
Caldari Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Hell, last night we had the goon CSM delegate swearing and shouting, calling me a "poofter" and saying that he'd have beaten me up in iceland if his wife hadn't stopped him
Not exactly great behaviour from an elected player representative for Eve really is it?
And of course this isn't new. Back to last year again while I was contesting the first CSM campaign the goons ran a program of harassment against me where they hosted a website registered in my character name, took my CV from personal webspace and mailed an allegation that I was actually working as an "internet prostitute" to three of my previous clients in the weeks before the election result.
And of course the ironic thing is that those same goons are still referencing and routinely linking to exactly the same material night after night (now) with the tacit and overt encouragement of their CSM delegate Darius JOHNSON.
Now I'm lucky. I'm self-employed, I come from a professional community that is quite internet savvy and knows a fair bit about gaming and generation-x angst and has read about goons before. My business contacts laugh off this stuff but seriously. I could see that some players would actually be significantly harmed by this kind of behaviour - it's absolutely not acceptable.
Wow.. am I the only one that thinks this is completely unacceptable??? Real life harassment over a video game?
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Snowden Vel
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:48:00 -
[92]
Originally by: 128th ABC123
Originally by: Jade Constantine Hell, last night we had the goon CSM delegate swearing and shouting, calling me a "poofter" and saying that he'd have beaten me up in iceland if his wife hadn't stopped him
Not exactly great behaviour from an elected player representative for Eve really is it?
And of course this isn't new. Back to last year again while I was contesting the first CSM campaign the goons ran a program of harassment against me where they hosted a website registered in my character name, took my CV from personal webspace and mailed an allegation that I was actually working as an "internet prostitute" to three of my previous clients in the weeks before the election result.
And of course the ironic thing is that those same goons are still referencing and routinely linking to exactly the same material night after night (now) with the tacit and overt encouragement of their CSM delegate Darius JOHNSON.
Now I'm lucky. I'm self-employed, I come from a professional community that is quite internet savvy and knows a fair bit about gaming and generation-x angst and has read about goons before. My business contacts laugh off this stuff but seriously. I could see that some players would actually be significantly harmed by this kind of behaviour - it's absolutely not acceptable.
Wow.. am I the only one that thinks this is completely unacceptable??? Real life harassment over a video game?
No, the time has come to end all things goony. Go forth and raise an army.
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Stahlregen
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:51:00 -
[93]
I've got an idea, Now it's just a suggestion- Don't have cyber sex with other dudes on the internet with your roleplay space brothel and you won't become a laughing-stock ingame and out.
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128th ABC123
Caldari Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:51:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Stahlregen
Originally by: 128th ABC123
This forum has a HUGE impact on the happenings in game.
BoB & Goons have done nothing else but abuse this forum for this purpose.
People's perception of the entities in game are shaped, an alliance that looks bad on the forums might actually miss out on good member corporations/allies etc, just to give you an example.
If you believe this then i'm sorry to say that you are either completely deluded or incredibly gullible. CAOD has always been a cesspool of half-truths and propaganda. The only difference between goons controlling CAOD and when bob controlled it is that goons don't try to pretend that it's a source of credible information.
Goddamn pubbies.
You said it yourself: Propaganda, I never said it had to be truthfull, but it does influence the perception of people.
And stop using the bob did it now goons do it, cuz most of us dont care who do it.
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HalfLoaf
Amarr Steel Soldier's Stainless St33l
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:52:00 -
[95]
Edited by: HalfLoaf on 02/03/2009 14:52:03
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/03/2009 14:16:55
Ultimately CCP do need to take steps here and they need to be fairly draconian ones to address the pure scale of the problem.
1. They could simply remove the forum. (easy, direct, runs the danger of goons and friends spamming other forum categories.)
2. They could get extremely harsh on moderation again. (might seem like a good idea but I've seen where this leads - give a 5000 member entity the power to petition over posters into a permaban and don't be surprised when everyone gets banned bar the ones who care enough to spam the moderators with fake complaints.)
Or, let's try something new:
How about CAOD becomes a forum where a corporation or alliance needs to request posting rights from the moderation team rather than having them automatically. This would prevent the alt posting alliances immediately since the moderators could use a little human judgement in assessing the suitability of CAOD posting organizations.
And at the same time, let's have collective posting bans on the organizational level. If too many Goon posters are spamming threads lets have the moderators able to give the goonswarm a temp 48 hour posting ban for it. This would encourage the alliance leaders of Goonswarm (or anyone else) to enforce better posting standards on their membership.
Ultimately I'd like to see CAOD posting to be controlled from an in game role assignment (perhaps a PR function) and the leaders of alliances/corporations could treat it as a privilege to be earned not as a right to be misused.
The combination of application/needed to post on CAOD / collective temp bans would control the current situation in my opinion and return CAOD to a more reasonable and constructive environment to discuss space politics.
And it would also present a far better selling point and storefront for CCP to showcase the beautiful political game of the single server environment.
Jade , this post is far too sensible to be taken any notice of by CCP Although i would like to think something along this line would be possible to implement .
Loafy ---
Loaf Is For Living !! Loaf It To The Full
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:53:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Or, let's try something new:
If you are thinking along those lines, why not support it where it's been mentioned in the assembly hall?
I think that thread is a bit confused. It needs restating clearly in the OP with more detail - if you fancy doing that I'd be happy to support it. The problem isn't just about "THE INTERNET" alt posting alliance.
Having seen how votes happen in the CSM from the inside I know it needs more specifics to the proposal to have a chance of suceeding.
And so I will, soon.
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128th ABC123
Caldari Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:55:00 -
[97]
Originally by: HalfLoaf Edited by: HalfLoaf on 02/03/2009 14:52:03
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/03/2009 14:16:55
Ultimately CCP do need to take steps here and they need to be fairly draconian ones to address the pure scale of the problem.
1. They could simply remove the forum. (easy, direct, runs the danger of goons and friends spamming other forum categories.)
2. They could get extremely harsh on moderation again. (might seem like a good idea but I've seen where this leads - give a 5000 member entity the power to petition over posters into a permaban and don't be surprised when everyone gets banned bar the ones who care enough to spam the moderators with fake complaints.)
Or, let's try something new:
How about CAOD becomes a forum where a corporation or alliance needs to request posting rights from the moderation team rather than having them automatically. This would prevent the alt posting alliances immediately since the moderators could use a little human judgement in assessing the suitability of CAOD posting organizations.
And at the same time, let's have collective posting bans on the organizational level. If too many Goon posters are spamming threads lets have the moderators able to give the goonswarm a temp 48 hour posting ban for it. This would encourage the alliance leaders of Goonswarm (or anyone else) to enforce better posting standards on their membership.
Ultimately I'd like to see CAOD posting to be controlled from an in game role assignment (perhaps a PR function) and the leaders of alliances/corporations could treat it as a privilege to be earned not as a right to be misused.
The combination of application/needed to post on CAOD / collective temp bans would control the current situation in my opinion and return CAOD to a more reasonable and constructive environment to discuss space politics.
And it would also present a far better selling point and storefront for CCP to showcase the beautiful political game of the single server environment.
Jade , this post is far too sensible to be taken any notice of by CCP Although i would like to think something along this line would be possible to implement .
Loafy
Jade as CSM couldnt you work on something like this? Seems like you have some great ideas.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:58:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Goumindong on 02/03/2009 14:59:45
Originally by: 128th ABC123
You said it yourself: Propaganda, I never said it had to be truthfull, but it does influence the perception of people.
And stop using the bob did it now goons do it, cuz most of us dont care who do it.
When the allegation is that this is new it is quite important to know where it started.
I would say propaganda that does not pretend to be anything else is significantly better than propaganda that purports to be reputable.
E.G. we have Jade Constantine in this thread committing sins of omission. The entire post is anti-goon propaganda, wrapped in hundreds of useless words that all never tell the whole truth, only the truth that Jade would want you to know.
For instance, the "exchange" where Darius said these things happened over many pages, after Jade, un-provoked, said "If you wife was more attractive i would have slept with her at fan fest" and consisted of many back and forth jabs. But of course, you will not hear of the attacks that Jade made.
What beacon of responsibility that one is.
Edit: Ask yourself this, is it better to know what is propaganda, or is it better to be suckered in by lies?
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Snowden Vel
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:59:00 -
[99]
Originally by: 128th ABC123
Originally by: Stahlregen
Originally by: 128th ABC123
This forum has a HUGE impact on the happenings in game.
BoB & Goons have done nothing else but abuse this forum for this purpose.
People's perception of the entities in game are shaped, an alliance that looks bad on the forums might actually miss out on good member corporations/allies etc, just to give you an example.
If you believe this then i'm sorry to say that you are either completely deluded or incredibly gullible. CAOD has always been a cesspool of half-truths and propaganda. The only difference between goons controlling CAOD and when bob controlled it is that goons don't try to pretend that it's a source of credible information.
Goddamn pubbies.
You said it yourself: Propaganda, I never said it had to be truthfull, but it does influence the perception of people.
And stop using the bob did it now goons do it, cuz most of us dont care who do it.
Are you laboring under the delusion that current posting trends are burying some sort of objective truth of the matter? There is no objective truth in EVE politics and no possibility of objective discussion and anyone who tells you otherwise is peddling an ego-driven fiction.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.02 14:59:00 -
[100]
Originally by: 128th ABC123 Jade as CSM couldnt you work on something like this? Seems like you have some great ideas.
I'm not currently on the CSM, my first term ended back in november. We did have a general discussion about this during the first term but the goon voting block was too strong against. Remember Darius and Bane would be dead-set against anything that prevented Goons spamming and attacking political rivals on CAOD.
Realistically I think its going to need to wait until Darius is out of power for the 3rd term - but doesn't hurt for the current 2nd CSM to give it a go I guess. If Scagga wants to raise the issue I'll certainly give it my support and encourage the 3 csm delegates I voted for to support it also.
ISSUE - Bring back space bushido |
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NereSky
Gallente Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:03:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: 128th ABC123 Jade as CSM couldnt you work on something like this? Seems like you have some great ideas.
I'm not currently on the CSM, my first term ended back in november. We did have a general discussion about this during the first term but the goon voting block was too strong against. Remember Darius and Bane would be dead-set against anything that prevented Goons spamming and attacking political rivals on CAOD.
Realistically I think its going to need to wait until Darius is out of power for the 3rd term - but doesn't hurt for the current 2nd CSM to give it a go I guess. If Scagga wants to raise the issue I'll certainly give it my support and encourage the 3 csm delegates I voted for to support it also.
I have approached a CSM on this matter but he/she didnt want to raise it publically (i assume because of the massive flame he or she would get from the goons, but would make some enquiries as to what CCP can do to improve CAOD,
Its a tad sad that a CSM is put off from putting a issue across because of the goons but tbh i can understand it
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128th ABC123
Caldari Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:06:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/03/2009 14:59:45
Originally by: 128th ABC123
You said it yourself: Propaganda, I never said it had to be truthfull, but it does influence the perception of people.
And stop using the bob did it now goons do it, cuz most of us dont care who do it.
When the allegation is that this is new it is quite important to know where it started.
I would say propaganda that does not pretend to be anything else is significantly better than propaganda that purports to be reputable.
E.G. we have Jade Constantine in this thread committing sins of omission. The entire post is anti-goon propaganda, wrapped in hundreds of useless words that all never tell the whole truth, only the truth that Jade would want you to know.
For instance, the "exchange" where Darius said these things happened over many pages, after Jade, un-provoked, said "If you wife was more attractive i would have slept with her at fan fest" and consisted of many back and forth jabs. But of course, you will not hear of the attacks that Jade made.
What beacon of responsibility that one is.
Edit: Ask yourself this, is it better to know what is propaganda, or is it better to be suckered in by lies?
How about this forum gets moderated and we all keep the real life **** out of it?
I'm really not interested in anybody's wife or reallife occupations. We are playing an internet space game. If you want to get "personal" on the internet do it on a dating site or on your own corp/alliance forums if you all agree thats allowed.
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Kal'Kalagan
Minmatar Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:07:00 -
[103]
CCP have known about the state of COAD for quite some time but obviously lack the will power to implement and enforce the necessary rules.
In fact most threads complaining about the state of COAD are removed to the Eve General thread where they are ignored, COAD continues to be a cess pool and everyone who actually wants to read up on the events of Eve reads SHC.
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Snowden Vel
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:08:00 -
[104]
Originally by: NereSky
I have approached a CSM on this matter but he/she didnt want to raise it publically (i assume because of the massive flame he or she would get from the goons, but would make some enquiries as to what CCP can do to improve CAOD,
Its a tad sad that a CSM is put off from putting a issue across because of the goons but tbh i can understand it
Was the CSM afraid of goons or politely blowing you off because it's a stupid issue? It is a mystery.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:08:00 -
[105]
The threat of having your account perma-banned from the forums was a good deterrent against persistant egregious posting.
The current sanctions available to the mods aren't really up to to job.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:09:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/03/2009 15:10:33
Originally by: NereSky Its a tad sad that a CSM is put off from putting a issue across because of the goons but tbh i can understand it
Oh yeah absolutely. To be honest I don't blame people being a bit wary of raising the head over the battlements with these guys. Its difficult to know how far they'll go sometimes and a lot of players do actually have vulnerability in their professional lives and don't need the stress.
That said, it does underline the neccessity of choosing CSM delegates that can stand up for themselves and be strong-willed, courageous and entirely self-confident.
In the end I think the right steps will be taken and this period of CAOD history will be scarcely remembered. CCP as a company aren't foolish, and they know well enough to take preventative steps when their reputation is being trashed.
ISSUE - Bring back space bushido |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:10:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: 128th ABC123 Jade as CSM couldnt you work on something like this? Seems like you have some great ideas.
I'm not currently on the CSM, my first term ended back in november. We did have a general discussion about this during the first term but the goon voting block was too strong against. Remember Darius and Bane would be dead-set against anything that prevented Goons spamming and attacking political rivals on CAOD.
Sin of Omission number 2 in this thread.
There was no "Goon voting block" in the first CSM. What there was was an ego maniacal chairperson who alienated the rest of the CSM. There were two goons on the CSM, one CVA(Who have goons set red[Hint: see what i did there?]), and a number of random low-sec and empire entities. That Chairperson was Jade Constantine. It did this when he went back on his original campaign promise to forgo the chairmanship and have it be voted on claiming that "there was no established order for it" when frankly the CSM being an organizing body can pretty much do what it wants when it has no formalized rules, all the members had to do was agree to it... Which everyone did except for Jade Constantine.
This, and the "muting" incident, where Jade muted, then kicked another member of the CSM from the council, created this "Goonswarm Voting Block" which really was nothing of the sort. It only existed in Jades Paranoid ramblings.
The main part of the allegation came when Jade wanted to entirely revamp the way that 0.0 sovereignty worked so that it would suit his empire corporations goals. He wanted move 0.0 to a factional warfare model where 10 ships could capture an entire system in an hour. He wanted radical nerfs to infrastructure, and he wanted it all without any compensation that makes living in 0.0 possible. You see, Jade doesn't think that people should live in 0.0 space, he thinks its some sort of playground for where the "pvp players" go to shoot each other and have a ribbing good time. All these people who are out there making a name for themselves in 0.0 are in the way of that goal, and, more importantly, not playing the game that Jade Constantine wants them to play. The rest of the CSM disagreed, they did not want to play Jade Constantine online, they wanted to play Eve Online.
That ran a bit long, and i am sure there will be a third sin of Omission, but its what had to be said.
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HalfLoaf
Amarr Steel Soldier's Stainless St33l
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:11:00 -
[108]
Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: 128th ABC123 Jade as CSM couldnt you work on something like this? Seems like you have some great ideas.
I'm not currently on the CSM, my first term ended back in november. We did have a general discussion about this during the first term but the goon voting block was too strong against. Remember Darius and Bane would be dead-set against anything that prevented Goons spamming and attacking political rivals on CAOD.
Realistically I think its going to need to wait until Darius is out of power for the 3rd term - but doesn't hurt for the current 2nd CSM to give it a go I guess. If Scagga wants to raise the issue I'll certainly give it my support and encourage the 3 csm delegates I voted for to support it also.
I have approached a CSM on this matter but he/she didnt want to raise it publically (i assume because of the massive flame he or she would get from the goons, but would make some enquiries as to what CCP can do to improve CAOD,
Its a tad sad that a CSM is put off from putting a issue across because of the goons but tbh i can understand it
It is Sad , but its no sadder than being unable to go to the forums and read some inteligible material without being subjected to utter drivel and spam within the first few posts of a thread , i used to love spending a lunchtime at work browsing and reading , now i hardly bother .
And What is even Sadder is i'm not alone ! ---
Loaf Is For Living !! Loaf It To The Full
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Montasque
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:11:00 -
[109]
No one is stopping anyone from making long winded diatribes about internet spaceship politics, as this thread clearly shows.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:13:00 -
[110]
Originally by: 128th ABC123
How about this forum gets moderated and we all keep the real life **** out of it?
I'm really not interested in anybody's wife or reallife occupations. We are playing an internet space game. If you want to get "personal" on the internet do it on a dating site or on your own corp/alliance forums if you all agree thats allowed.
That is the thing, we never brought anyones wife or real life occupations into it. The allegation that goons did anything of the sort is an outright fabrication. Its just one that cannot be proven to be false because no one is willing to contact anyones out of game contacts because of an internet spaceship game. Convenient isn't it?
If you start shooting at people, you should not be surprised if they shoot back. Jade fires the first shot, and then pleads ignorance when its time to pay the piper.
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Illiya
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:14:00 -
[111]
who's jade constantine? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:18:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Oh yeah absolutely. To be honest I don't blame people being a bit wary of raising the head over the battlements with these guys. Its difficult to know how far they'll go sometimes and a lot of players do actually have vulnerability in their professional lives and don't need the stress.
That said, it does underline the neccessity of choosing CSM delegates that can stand up for themselves and be strong-willed, courageous and entirely self-confident.
In the end I think the right steps will be taken and this period of CAOD history will be scarcely remembered. CCP as a company aren't foolish, and they know well enough to take preventative steps when their reputation is being trashed.
Sin of Omission number 3.
Jade Constantine was Perma-banned from the forums for posting in the old age of CAOD(you know, the good old one where no one did anything mean and it was all in good fun, I.E. exactly the same was it is now except without "Goon" on some of the tickers). He was let back in when CCP did their blanket forgiveness. Ironically, it was only this that let him be eligible for the CSM position in the first place.
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Snowden Vel
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:19:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Jade Constantine CCP as a company aren't foolish, and they know well enough to take preventative steps when their reputation is being trashed.
I'm pretty sure gagging or banning a huge chunk of participants in the major 0.0 conflict that's driven roughly 100% of EVE's mainstream media exposure in the past month would do a lot more to trash CCP's reputation than any current posting trend in this forum backwater.
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Kiyoko Misaki
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:20:00 -
[114]
Just think of all the media exposure EVE and CCP gets thanks to goons.
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Berious
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:20:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Montasque No one is stopping anyone from making long winded diatribes about internet spaceship politics, as this thread clearly shows.
But Jade can't just have anyone who laughs at his textual diarrhea banned from the forum so obviously something is terribly wrong.
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Scruffy Jed
Gallente Rho Holding Corp GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:20:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Illiya who's jade constantine?
some bob alt or something I think
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Snowden Vel
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:23:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Scruffy Jed
Originally by: Illiya who's jade constantine?
some bob alt or something I think
This is where I'd normally make a joke about them not allowing stealth bombers in fleets but at this point stealth bombers are apparently integral to Ken's fleet doctrine (MANTICORE UNCLOAKING) so I'm at a loss.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:23:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/03/2009 15:23:24
Originally by: Snowden Vel I'm pretty sure gagging or banning a huge chunk of participants in the major 0.0 conflict that's driven roughly 100% of EVE's mainstream media exposure in the past month would do a lot more to trash CCP's reputation than any current posting trend in this forum backwater.
Hardly. When you look at mainstream media exposure you see one or two representatives telling the story of whats happened and its editted to a rational narrative by the researcher. Thats good PR. Imagine if instead of that you had 10 pages of random flames, harrassment and junk posting? Thats not good PR for anybody.
My suggestion here is that we make CAOD a forum for alliance and corporation leaders and representatives to do what it says on the forum description.
CCP is under absolutely no obligation to provide a SA-style trash talking forum for members of goonswarm and friends.
ISSUE - Bring back space bushido |
Chadawahee
Amarr Live Once Die Twice
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:25:00 -
[119]
I completely agree with the OP. there is a great war going on at the moment that will have serious impact on EVE and this should be the place to read up on it. However, certain entities seem to think otherwise and post crap instead of ANY usefull information. can we have at least one topic, just a single one!, that keeps track of whats vaguely happening out there? thats not to much to ask for is it?
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Brobuck
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:25:00 -
[120]
I have an idea, howzabout we split caod into 2 forums, "CAOD 0.0" and "CA0D lite."
Those pilots who enjoy 0.0 can post in the CAOD 0.0 forum, and those who either have never been in 0.0 or no longer have a presence in it (Jade/Kengoku/etc.) can post in the CAOD lite forum, and nobody will have to try to figure out what a thread title means before their tender sensibilities are affronted.
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