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EspionageX
Arbitrary Freedom
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Posted - 2009.03.03 06:27:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 02/03/2009 21:02:32 a Sniggerdly pilot has a very strange Helios setup that managed to kill a Taranis of ours earlier today. Also tried to kill a Sabre but missed a jam and died when it was in structure
Isn't as strange as you think Me and a fellow corpie have contemplated doing this ourselves in 0.0 space for epic lulz. Nice to see that it does work.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.03.03 06:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Originally by: MotherMoon scimitar.
logistic ship
fit it with 4 lows -4 PDU II 5 mids -XL large named booster -2 Shield amp II -scramble II -MWD II
4 highs -3 medium turrets -1 missle
2 rigs -s CCC's
permi-runs the XL booster at 1100 hp a cycle.
Super tackle Scimitar.
will post video later :)
I'm trying this.
EFT shows cap emptying in 35 seconds.....
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.03 06:46:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Originally by: MotherMoon scimitar.
logistic ship
fit it with 4 lows -4 PDU II 5 mids -XL large named booster -2 Shield amp II -scramble II -MWD II
4 highs -3 medium turrets -1 missle
2 rigs -s CCC's
permi-runs the XL booster at 1100 hp a cycle.
Super tackle Scimitar.
will post video later :)
I'm trying this.
EFT shows cap emptying in 35 seconds.....
EFT is also not the best indicator for how good or bad a ship is. Some things work, even when they aren't supposed to. Some things don't.
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Draeca
Tharri and Co.
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Posted - 2009.03.03 07:24:00 -
[34]
Linkage
Typical fit for atypical ship, does that count? Oh and we were mining in amamake, that's why.
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente The-Kissaki
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Posted - 2009.03.03 07:25:00 -
[35]
shoop the whoop rokh __________________________________________________ I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it! I'm also training Minmatar Capitals! And I eat Lions! |
panterus29
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.03 08:31:00 -
[36]
uhmm...what about mining in a bs, heheh
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Draeca
Tharri and Co.
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Posted - 2009.03.03 08:33:00 -
[37]
Originally by: panterus29 uhmm...what about mining in a bs, heheh
Like this?
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panterus29
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.03 08:54:00 -
[38]
Edited by: panterus29 on 03/03/2009 08:55:36 or this: Mining Hype
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Pac SubCom
A.W.M
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Posted - 2009.03.03 09:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
EFT shows cap emptying in 35 seconds.....
He really means an L Booster, not XL. The XL fits too though.
Btw, pretty much the only way to utilize fully the normally massive cpu of Minmatar ships is to fit a boosted shield tank. Cruiser sized ships can quite easily fit a tech 2 L Booster as if theyÆre made for it. The Vaga has enough cpu for XL for example. IIRC, a while ago new Minmatar characters had boosting skills on character generation. Not all for the Cyclone. --------------- ∞ TQFE
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.03.03 09:19:00 -
[40]
One of the problems with this game (and many other MMOs) is the fact that people tend to go the cookie cutter approach, because they read it works best in a manual. Some people are more practical and seek to exploit the bonuses. However, this approach does leave them open to unusual tactics, and that is why these non-standard fits work.
You'd be surprised how often this tactic works, but you have to ask yourself, "what tactics do I use when I see a Myrmidon" and then you start to realise why. We all do it, and the class of ship just makes it easier for us to fall into categorised thinking.
The cookie cutter system often has the most efficient setup for that ship, but if you have good skills, the surprise factor can make up for the loss of a certain percentage of efficiency. Obviously, some fits are just plain crap, but others work better than expected.
It's best to use the empirical research model and just try different fits and see what works for you. Ignore the naysayers and those who laugh at your fit. Those people usually lack self-esteem, so seek to improve it with their own in-game confidence, even if their 'knowledge' is bled off the forums. I have my Myrmidon set up for ECM as well, and it does work quite well. Ironically, despite the hundreds of people sharing fits through BattleClinic and so on, the only true way to find something that works for you is just to experiment.
I experimented with a Retribution fit last night and, although not a radical departure from what is expected, it worked exceptionally well, chewing through a Rifter in no time. I think that will become my standard fit for that ship.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.03 09:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ratchman One of the problems with this game (and many other MMOs) is the fact that people tend to go the cookie cutter approach, because they read it works best in a manual. Some people are more practical and seek to exploit the bonuses. However, this approach does leave them open to unusual tactics, and that is why these non-standard fits work.
You'd be surprised how often this tactic works, but you have to ask yourself, "what tactics do I use when I see a Myrmidon" and then you start to realise why. We all do it, and the class of ship just makes it easier for us to fall into categorised thinking.
The cookie cutter system often has the most efficient setup for that ship, but if you have good skills, the surprise factor can make up for the loss of a certain percentage of efficiency. Obviously, some fits are just plain crap, but others work better than expected.
It's best to use the empirical research model and just try different fits and see what works for you. Ignore the naysayers and those who laugh at your fit. Those people usually lack self-esteem, so seek to improve it with their own in-game confidence, even if their 'knowledge' is bled off the forums. I have my Myrmidon set up for ECM as well, and it does work quite well. Ironically, despite the hundreds of people sharing fits through BattleClinic and so on, the only true way to find something that works for you is just to experiment.
I experimented with a Retribution fit last night and, although not a radical departure from what is expected, it worked exceptionally well, chewing through a Rifter in no time. I think that will become my standard fit for that ship.
That's the beauty of EvE. Many players will never be able to see pass the math or EFT numbers. Anything that deviates is not as 'efficient', and thus they won't even try.
A truly creative (or lucky) player can sometimes happen on a fit that works very well, and sometimes just for them. Someone else tries that fit, and dies in a heartbeat.
Kinda one of the things I love about EvE, I guess. Numbers and efficiency only count for so much ...
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.03 14:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Active tanking Drake with web/scram.
I've also seen an ECM fitted Drake, which made more sense to me than the ECM fitted Myrmidon.
In the case of the Drake, it didn't draw point (its a BC right?), had missiles so, it looked like its role was to get in close with assault and draw fire.
However, once it was in range, it turned on all of its mid-slot which were used for ECM rather than tank and that pretty much tipped things in their favour - jamming up targeting effectively.
Bit of a surprise - really.
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JoDan Troikian
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Posted - 2009.03.03 16:25:00 -
[43]
Don't know if this counts as an atypical fit, but more of a sneaky fit. A buddy of mine used to fit a Scorp with all armor plates in the lows and all shield extenders in the mids. Every single time I seen him use it, he was primaried and they never broke his tank. I don't have EFT numbers to show how much his actual effective HP was, but it was a sight to behold watching all that incoming fire and him never going down.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses W A S T E L A N D
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Posted - 2009.03.03 16:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ruze No body ever expects to get E-War'd by a Geddon.
b/c the ample amount of mid slots makes this possible...
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.03 18:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: JoDan Troikian Don't know if this counts as an atypical fit, but more of a sneaky fit. A buddy of mine used to fit a Scorp with all armor plates in the lows and all shield extenders in the mids. Every single time I seen him use it, he was primaried and they never broke his tank. I don't have EFT numbers to show how much his actual effective HP was, but it was a sight to behold watching all that incoming fire and him never going down.
Didn't we see something similar during the tournament?
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.03.03 18:41:00 -
[46]
I've got several off the wall fits of dubious effectiveness:
[Curse, Falcurse] Signal Distortion Amplifier II Signal Distortion Amplifier II Signal Distortion Amplifier II RADAR Backup Array II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Hammerhead II x5
Not too bad for 1v1/solo work vs. a missile battleship. Has a nearly 50% chance to jam one. Given the lock times of a battleship on a cruiser with its MWD off (you'd turn it off once you get a jam) it just might be enough to kill one solo.
Against something with weaker sensor strength it would own its face even without the neuts.
Another: My nos domi (only one neut fitted) has never lost a 1v1. Easily beat a neut domi even. Beat a couple torp ravens recently too.
I worked out a decent fleet sniper ishtar yesterday that beats the other sniper HACs for on paper DPS, tracking, range, lock time, versatility, and cost. Only problem with it is the huge signature of sentries. Not so good vs. cruisers & frigates.
If you somehow manage to get intel on exactly what you'll be facing you can specifically fit for them and really ruin their day. Luckily there are situations where this is possible. I was able to kill a brutix in my domi while being the sole target of a falcon this way. (dual ECCM FTW)
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.03 20:41:00 -
[47]
suprise setups work because many fights in eve are at least semi-consensual. People engage you when they can think they can win. In this engagement decision they consider cookie-cutter setups.
Passive Shield Arbitrator ECM Harbinger Blaster Anathema Blaster/Rocket Purifier Remote Rep Coercer and of course, flying it 6 months before QR my trusty AB/Web Crusader.
I love unconventional fits. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Beardponderer
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2009.03.03 21:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: MotherMoon scimitar.
logistic ship
fit it with 4 lows -4 PDU II 5 mids -XL large named booster -2 Shield amp II -scramble II -MWD II
4 highs -3 medium turrets -1 missle
2 rigs -s CCC's
permi-runs the XL booster at 1100 hp a cycle.
Super tackle Scimitar.
will post video later :)
No idea how you managed to do that but it works with a little change and a C-type XL booster.
Eft Proof ----------------------------------------------
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.03 22:26:00 -
[49]
The main reason that most ship fits in EVE are fairly "cookie cutter" is simply due to the slot layouts.
Example: If you're PvP'ing in a Brutix, then you have only four mid slots to work with.
Well you need to be able to close range with other ships quickly in order for your blasters to be effective, so you are forced to fit an speed mod.
Next, you want the ability to keep other ships from running from the fight, so you need a disruptor or scrambler.
Next, since blasters have such short ranges, you'll want a webifier to make sure they don't quickly run out of your gun range.
Last, Blasters and MWD's eat up a LOT of capacitor, so fitting a capacitor injector is fairly mandatory.
Very FEW ships in EVE, like the Myrmidon and the Hurricane for instance, have slot layouts OR ship bonus's that allow them to venture outside of the basic PvP "necessary" modules.
The very best way to avoid cookie cutter setups is to sit down with your corporation and have gang composition discussions. If you plan your gangs well, then your Brutix doesn't really need the scrambler or maybe even the cap injector, freeing up two slots for other possibilities. An Arazu or dictor/hictor will be keeping them from warping away for you and a guardian will be transferring you the cap you need.
Most people just can't be arsed to sit down and plan gangs that thoroughly, which is why cookie cutter setups are so prevalent. ---------------------------------
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.03 22:47:00 -
[50]
[Battle Badger Mark II] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Medium Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II Small Shield Booster II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Nosferatu II
Have taken down AF with this madness
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.03.03 22:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ruze
EFT is also not the best indicator for how good or bad a ship is. Some things work, even when they aren't supposed to. Some things don't.
If you'd train a few levels of Reading Comprehension -- I was not arguing about the effectiveness of the ship itself, but the claim of cap stability, which EFT is a great tool for measuring. Theres a big difference between a perma-boost setup and one that caps out in 30s.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.03.03 23:04:00 -
[52]
Disco fit Redeemer --
Billion Isk Mission |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.03 23:29:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Originally by: Ruze
EFT is also not the best indicator for how good or bad a ship is. Some things work, even when they aren't supposed to. Some things don't.
If you'd train a few levels of Reading Comprehension -- I was not arguing about the effectiveness of the ship itself, but the claim of cap stability, which EFT is a great tool for measuring. Theres a big difference between a perma-boost setup and one that caps out in 30s.
You didn't explain that. You took no measures to advance a cause, just simply provided an EFT critique. I gave a very generalized reply against players relying on EFT for all their info.
Thanks for clarifying what you intended with your short statement, however.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.04 17:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: baltec1 [Battle Badger Mark II] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Medium Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II Small Shield Booster II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Nosferatu II
Have taken down AF with this madness
Bait ship?
I've also seen a geddon used as a bait ship, with energy neuts. I like this use of a badger though.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.04 18:03:00 -
[55]
Armor tanking Ravens and Drakes.
Scary part is they work quite well. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.04 18:13:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Captator
Originally by: Roemy Schneider prowlwer w/ cov ops cloak and recon/expanded probe launcher - the only bloacked runner w/ 2 hi-slots can't fit anything else, but hey....
I beg to differ, it makes a decent temporary tackler too:
[Prowler, prober] Caldari Navy Co-Processor Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Cap Recharger II Domination Warp Disruptor
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Recon Probe Launcher, Snoop Scanner Probe I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capt, if I EVER again see you making some idiotic, faction fitted CRAP setup I'm gonna find you, hunt you and give you a lecture on TS.
<3
Self-proclaimed idiot
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.04 18:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Eventy One
Bait ship?
I've also seen a geddon used as a bait ship, with energy neuts. I like this use of a badger though.
It can be. I use it for hunting can flippers in high sec and I used to fly it in FW fleets to motivate the squids.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.04 18:54:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Capt, if I EVER again see you making some idiotic, faction fitted CRAP setup I'm gonna find you, hunt you and give you a lecture on TS.
<3
Err .. I think he likes your setup?
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.04 19:02:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Capt, if I EVER again see you making some idiotic, faction fitted CRAP setup I'm gonna find you, hunt you and give you a lecture on TS.
<3
Err .. I think he likes your setup?
No, Capt is the ultimate EFT warrior, coming up with tactics/solutions with hideously expensive fits that don't work for situations which never happen. CEO explicitly forbid him to talk about EFT, EHP and DPS on TS, and the rest of us all agreed
Self-proclaimed idiot
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JoDan Troikian
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Posted - 2009.03.05 03:27:00 -
[60]
Edited by: JoDan Troikian on 05/03/2009 03:31:49
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: JoDan Troikian Don't know if this counts as an atypical fit, but more of a sneaky fit. A buddy of mine used to fit a Scorp with all armor plates in the lows and all shield extenders in the mids. Every single time I seen him use it, he was primaried and they never broke his tank. I don't have EFT numbers to show how much his actual effective HP was, but it was a sight to behold watching all that incoming fire and him never going down.
Didn't we see something similar during the tournament?
that's possible. I can't remember all the ship setups in the tourney, but I was specifically referring to roving gang fights. I don't think this would ever work in a large fleet as the amount of focused fire would break that tank. However in roaming gangs, a falcon/scorp is generally primaried first in my experience. It also won't work if you have engaged them before and they lost to a similiar setup.
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