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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2009.03.02 21:11:00 -
[1]
Not sure if I'm in the right forum but I can't find a better place.
The description of the Light Precision missiles says "is great for taking down smaller ships". I thought "smaller ships" could be frigates.
The following was in a Crow with T2 Standard missile launchers with Sabretooth Light Missiles and Sabretooth Precision Light Missiles against a Centii Loyal Enslaver (it's a frig):
Combat log when the NPC still had shields: "Your Sabretooth Light Missile hits Centii Loyal Enslaver, doing 34.1 damage." "Your Sabretooth Precision Light Missile hits Centii Loyal Enslaver, doing 33.8 damage."
...when he was in armor: "Your Sabretooth Light Missile hits Centii Loyal Enslaver, doing 39.0 damage." "Your Sabretooth Precision Light Missile hits Centii Loyal Enslaver, doing 33.8 damage."
...and when he was in structure: "Your Sabretooth Light Missile hits Centii Loyal Enslaver, doing 108.2 damage." "Your Sabretooth Precision Light Missile hits Centii Loyal Enslaver, doing 93.9 damage."
The same against other frigs and also against cruisers: The Precision missile always did less damage than the T1 missile.
I don't understand... What I am doing wrong? In which situation is a precision missile better than the T1 (metalevel1) counterpart?
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Ravenal
The Fated E.Y
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Posted - 2009.03.02 21:20:00 -
[2]
need smaller targets... like other ceptors or just something with less sig rad than normal light missile explosion rad . |
Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.02 21:27:00 -
[3]
You're doing nothing wrong, precision lights suck. |
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2009.03.02 21:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ravenal need smaller targets... like other ceptors or just something with less sig rad than normal light missile explosion rad
Hm, isn't the Centii Loyal Enslaver an Interceptor? It has a sig radius of 35 m (that's less than the Crow).
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.02 22:15:00 -
[5]
Forget precision lights, they are awful, especially since their flighttime is reduced. Had a taranis outrunning them at 11km orbiting, simply don't use them and say thanks to the dev who "balanced" them
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.02 22:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ravenal need smaller targets... like other ceptors or just something with less sig rad than normal light missile explosion rad
No, actually the OP is right - because of the lower base damage of precisions, they'll pretty much always do less damage than 'normal' ones. There is a breakpoint on the curve of the graph where they do more, but it's at about the point where they're basically doing none.
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Ravenal
The Fated E.Y
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Posted - 2009.03.02 22:35:00 -
[7]
"smaller" in the sense that the explosion velocity difference of the missiles starts taking effect in the missile damage formula ...
but yeah, should have stated it more accurately :) . |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.03.02 23:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 02/03/2009 23:04:39
Originally by: Ravenal "smaller" in the sense that the explosion velocity difference of the missiles starts taking effect in the missile damage formula ...
but yeah, should have stated it more accurately :)
Regular lights have 37 or so exp. radius with maxed guided missile precision as opposed to the 20 or less sig radius of NPC tacklers. That's more than enough to make a difference (precision missile is about 26 exp. radius)
Maybe what you meant by "smaller" was "faster", not seeing why that would matter here either.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.03.02 23:06:00 -
[9]
This is a problem with all precision missiles. Currently there is no reason to use them over faction missiles.
Would I still train T2 launchers? Absolutely (except cruise launchers - they're pretty bad). T2 launchers cost a ton less than best named T1 counter parts, and when specialized do 8% more damage.
One could argue most T2 ammo fares poorly compared to T1 faction ammo (except for null, spike, barrage, and of course scorch).
Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.02 23:19:00 -
[10]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 02/03/2009 23:19:49
Originally by: Ravenal "smaller" in the sense that the explosion velocity difference of the missiles starts taking effect in the missile damage formula ...
but yeah, should have stated it more accurately :)
The problem is you need both smaller, and 'not moving' as is such is pretty much useless. Here's how the plot looks with lights vs. precision lights on a frigate, with velocity:
Pic 1
And here's what you get if you look at both frigates and inties with the MWD switched on:
PIC2
And then, as you say, 20m signature target (that would be a shuttle maybe?) Pic 3
So it has to be doing less than 450m/sec - which you'll just about managed with an afterburning frigate that just got webbed, or if they've forgotten to start moving or something. But mostly, it's such a niche case that you just don't use 'em.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.02 23:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Omarvelous
One could argue most T2 ammo fares poorly compared to T1 faction ammo (except for null, spike, barrage, and of course scorch).
The long range T1 ammo is good. The short range is horrible.
With missiles, Rage and Fury is now fairly good - the change to the explosion formula means they're much more usable and more damaging in enough situations to make them worth the cargo space.
But javelins and precisions are now ... marginally worth it.
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2009.03.02 23:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: James Lyrus The problem is you need both smaller, and 'not moving' as is such is pretty much useless. Here's how the plot looks with lights vs. precision lights on a frigate, with velocity:
Pic 1
And here's what you get if you look at both frigates and inties with the MWD switched on:
PIC2
And then, as you say, 20m signature target (that would be a shuttle maybe?) Pic 3
So it has to be doing less than 450m/sec - which you'll just about managed with an afterburning frigate that just got webbed, or if they've forgotten to start moving or something. But mostly, it's such a niche case that you just don't use 'em.
Ah, thanks, those diagrams are helpful! So it seems there is only a very theoretical situation where precisions are better than regular missiles and obviously I wasn't in that theoretical situation. Maybe the description of the precision missiles should be changed to "Is great for taking down point-sized ships if they forgot to move" or "Is great to waste your money".
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.03.03 14:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Omarvelous
One could argue most T2 ammo fares poorly compared to T1 faction ammo (except for null, spike, barrage, and of course scorch).
The long range T1 ammo is good. The short range is horrible.
With missiles, Rage and Fury is now fairly good - the change to the explosion formula means they're much more usable and more damaging in enough situations to make them worth the cargo space.
But javelins and precisions are now ... marginally worth it.
I'll give you fury - its pretty damned impressive on Drakes firing against BS/BC targets.
Rage - assuming the pilot is using a target painter is also pretty good. I struggle to make any case for the high damage turret ammo though.
Remove the tracking penalty on high damage ammo.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.03 17:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Omarvelous
One could argue most T2 ammo fares poorly compared to T1 faction ammo (except for null, spike, barrage, and of course scorch).
The long range T1 ammo is good. The short range is horrible.
With missiles, Rage and Fury is now fairly good - the change to the explosion formula means they're much more usable and more damaging in enough situations to make them worth the cargo space.
But javelins and precisions are now ... marginally worth it.
I'll give you fury - its pretty damned impressive on Drakes firing against BS/BC targets.
Rage - assuming the pilot is using a target painter is also pretty good. I struggle to make any case for the high damage turret ammo though.
Remove the tracking penalty on high damage ammo.
I'd be inclined to agree with that assessment. Short range turret ammo already has a 'tracking penalty' - it's called "Being really short range". IMO high damage ammo that comes at a really short optimal, and at a premium amount of cap (which most of them do) is ... just about useful, but not always.
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