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Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
118
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll start with a legit thread out of curiousness. How big of a nightmare is Wormhole logistics?
I have this imagery of leaving a wormhole for supplies and coming back to it and it not being there. Or leaving and the door closing behind you, I know the wormholes have been known to collapse at random(?) now? Then the night of coming in the hole reseting and it's now in dead end 0.0.
What are the methods used to combat this exactly? I imagine running in and out of the wormhole to get it to respawn elsewhere would work, but when do you know not to jump back through before it's too late. It would rather suck to have a hole close behind you, after trying to reset it and being stuck in 0.0.
And I'm right to assume once you're out, there is a snowballs chance in hell you'll find it again?
I'm assuming being in a group negates a bit by having someone inside 24/7, unless the entire fleet jumps out. Has that ever happened?
Finally, A - B, I don't imagine traveling in a hauler from a pos to the wormhole and vice versa is manageable unless in a blockade runner, cant' say I've dealt with those ships to know what kind of cargo they can carry.
Thanks in advance. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
202
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:I'll start with a legit thread out of curiousness. How big of a nightmare is Wormhole logistics?
I have this imagery of leaving a wormhole for supplies and coming back to it and it not being there. Or leaving and the door closing behind you, I know the wormholes have been known to collapse at random(?) now? Then the night of coming in the hole reseting and it's now in dead end 0.0.
What are the methods used to combat this exactly? I imagine running in and out of the wormhole to get it to respawn elsewhere would work, but when do you know not to jump back through before it's too late. It would rather suck to have a hole close behind you, after trying to reset it and being stuck in 0.0.
And I'm right to assume once you're out, there is a snowballs chance in hell you'll find it again?
I'm assuming being in a group negates a bit by having someone inside 24/7, unless the entire fleet jumps out. Has that ever happened?
Finally, A - B, I don't imagine traveling in a hauler from a pos to the wormhole and vice versa is manageable unless in a blockade runner, cant' say I've dealt with those ships to know what kind of cargo they can carry.
Thanks in advance.
Honestly IMO it can vary immensly depending on the WH.
C1-C3 with HS statics. Logistics are pretty easy. Hardest part is you will end up all over HS, sometimes not near a good hub etc. C1-C3 with LS statics. Logistics can be harder. You can end up in deep lowsec areas, too far from anything useful. Annoying if you let yourself get low on supplies, and you are out in like Aridia. C1-C3 with NS static. Nuff said. C4+ Logistics get harder as they won't have a k-space static, so you are always going through another WH to get out to empire (with the occasional random).
As far as haulers, I have run a non blockade runner in and out of a WH plenty. Even Orca's. You just have to be aware of your situation. As an example, I would never just log in, jump in a hauler and head out. I would always check out the system, are there new WH's? Has the static been open? If so, how are the other sides? Active or dead? I'd often sit on the hole awhile to see if any lurkers are about, etc. WH's are all about situational awareness. |
Xuse Senna
Analog Folk SRS.
171
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Rule, Always Assume your being Watched inside a WH. D3 |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
118
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xuse Senna wrote:One Rule, Always Assume your being Watched inside a WH.
Oh I certainly would not doubt it, I'm fine with the paranoia aspect, my issue is based more about the function of the entering of wormholes and leaving, and hopefully coming back. However I imagine that is hit or miss as a solo'er and would without a doubt need an alt or some such. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
7
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
We've typically had 2-3 or more direct lowsec connections in C4+ over every 7-10 days - a prowler is ideal for running logistics in and out of these. We've also had direct highsecs at an average of 1 a month.
You have to make the best of the connections you do get and do orca loads in and out when you get a good chance - its all part and parcel of the experience. |
Mart Allini
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
19
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
1st rule of living in w-space: always have a scanny alt in system to find you a way back in.
Yes, wormhole logistics can be a pain in the ass sometimes, especially by yourself. How much of a pain depends on what class wh you're in and what static it has. Say a c3 with HS static, not really an issue. c5 with c5 static, much more of a hassle. You just learn to take the opportunities that bob the wormhole god gives you.
You are right that chain rerolling is a large part of finding a good route. With experience, you can easily close wormholes making sure all ships end up on the side you want them to. I'll leave up to you to figure out those mechanics(hint: look in to mass allowances)
Finally, you move your haulers the way you move them in all dangerous space: with a scout checking the way before you |
Lucas Schuyler
Mortis Noir.
25
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Posted - 2012.04.26 15:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
I would suggest as a minimum any WHO you are setting up shop in you should keep a basic scanner alt logged off in the hole at all times in case you get forced out unexpectedly, either to a hold closing or being podded. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
118
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Posted - 2012.04.26 16:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
So a bookmark alt, probably a preference to stick to C1-3 wormholes for starting out. I'm unaware of their difficulties, I imagine they're capable with a single t3? Minus w/e set of ships needed for industry.
How often are such wormhole classes 'raided' or assaulted etc. And I'm curious about how crowded they tend to be. I'm fairly right to believe that a majority of the high class wormholes if not all are controlled by alliance groups. And whoever can grab the stuff below?
Supply wise would I need bpo's for pretty much w/e I need to use or is it not extreme enough for the need to build everything required for ships etc.- ammo. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |
Ryday
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.04.26 17:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
it makes little sense to use an orca for everyday logistics given its mass. An Iteron V is about six times more efficient.
The mass of a C4 hole is 2b. An Orca has 250m mass and can carry around 80k w/o ore or 130k with ore whereas an Iteron V has a mass of 11.7m and can carry 38k. |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
86
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Posted - 2012.04.26 18:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
it depends on your static and your pilots. if you have anything with static c3 or 2, and the people to do so, its easy, collapse untill you get one with a good static.
in c5/6 static, same, bit harder because youll chain for wormhole with a static c2 or 3, and you might have to collapse that. but in general with a good bunch of pilots, nothing is much of a problem. well, other then c3/1 with crappy static |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
121
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Posted - 2012.04.26 19:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
i once had a hisec non-static close in my face and the static turned out to lead to serpentis prime. true story. |
thebarry
SRS Industries SRS.
1
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Posted - 2012.04.26 19:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Choosing a good wormhole to live in helps immensely. Anything with a static high sec is pretty easy to supply 'on-demand' since you can just collapse the high sec until you get one you like. Class 5s can be easier to supply(in terms of hauling at least): when you get down to about a month's worth of fuel, you start keeping an eye out for inbound wormholes, you should see several K162 inbounds from high sec per month, and these can pass freighters, so you just wait for one to pop up, then haul a freighter load of pos fuel, stront etc and you are supplied for the next few months. |
Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
52
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Posted - 2012.04.26 20:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
The saying "Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance" applies immensely to wh logistics.
Always have a system in place, with proper scouts and even an escort (depending on what you are bringing in). Having a good understanding of wormhole engineering saves you a great deal of hassle as well. Got a ****** connection? Roll it and try again.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
65
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Posted - 2012.04.26 20:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:WH's are all about situational awareness.
Quote:One Rule, Always Assume your being Watched inside a WH.
As a WH n00b, I'm learning that paranoia isn't a deficit, in the right circumstances. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
illy velo
Production N Destruction INC. The Last Chancers.
24
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Posted - 2012.04.26 22:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Logistics aren't that big of a deal if you have a corp of capable scanners in there with you. Like mentioned, some of the higher class wormholes that have statics that are other wormholes can get interesting. Sometimes you will get nothing but nullsec or just wormhole after wormhole but you learn how to roll em and move on.
My last home was a C3 static high with a freaking huge entrance. We could run 20 or 30 Orcas through it without issue. My current home is much more convoluted but has 3X the people in it scanning so it works itself out.
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Phaderift
Sky Fighters Talocan United
0
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Posted - 2012.04.26 22:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Logistics are sporadic at best, never count on finding one on a specific day in the higher C4 -C4 and C5-C5 C6-C6 type holes .. we once had a chain that went 12 holes with out a kspace .... then we found a null |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2012.04.27 02:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Only ever lived in a C3 and a C4. C3 had a HS static, so easy enough. When you jump in, wait out timer, if agressed jump out. C4 with a C2 static, not too bad if you dual box or do it with corp mates. I always leave an alt in a cloaky falcon in the C2. easy enough to see when someone comes in or out, mostly anyway. Most times people will try and grab you on the HS end of the C2, pretty silly actually, you just jump out, its also great fun to see them run when they think they have an orca to pop and they jammed silly.. I have even had them wait on the C2 to C4 in all manner of ship and they never put someone in the C4.. odd, anyway just warp to wh to C4 jump and you're away.
Always have a scanning alt of your account that can scan you back in. It takes round 5 days to get an OK scanning alt. Missile enhancers.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1235061& |
corbexx
Aperture Harmonics K162
17
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Posted - 2012.04.27 09:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think we go through something like 1 and a half frighter loads of pos fuel a week , and quite a large amount of strot.
we some time's just look for handy dynamics failing that its the find short chain and convoy it all in. once you have 10 plus people hauling it doesnt take long. its all about team work. pretty much everyone in aharm helps out on these ops either hauling scouting or being around in pvp ships. but you'd be really surprised how fast you can get stuff moved when everyone comes along to help. |
Steam Cat
The Skunkworks
3
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yeah living in a deep hole (c-5/c-5 static) logistics are sometimes a problem. Being able to close your holes reliably and on demand is the biggest boon to logistics so you can at least gamble on a good connection. If you cannot reliably close your static you're screwing yourself hard.
And if all else fails and you get stuck in the middle of nullsec, find a friendly npc station and see if black frog will do a rush job. The hard part is usually just getting past the hi/low/null camps. Also having a runner (small cloaky with warp core stabs + mwd) of any kind is nice when you just need a few small things (skill books ect). A good runner is nigh impossible to catch. |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Exhale.
36
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Posted - 2012.04.27 12:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
personally i can go weeks without needing to go to k-space you just need to think beyond the next couple days.
just think in your head what am i going to need for the next few weeks... skillbooks, fuel, ammo etc.
if you live in a higher class wormhole such as a c5 you can chain collapse your static untill you find a static that has a desireable static.
eg i live in a c5/c5 we can chain the static untill we find a c5 with a static c3 or c2 and then chain collapse the c3/c2 untill we find a static k-space. or you can just scan 4/5 wormholes and you will probably find a k-space exit someware.
wormholes never collapse randomly, they collapse when they reach their mass limit (which varies per wormhole) or their time limit. when a wormhole reads as eol (end of life) it means it will collapse in 4-6 hours depending on the wormhole.
wormhole masses and times can be found here http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes |
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warwarb
Darkstorm Corporation
2
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Posted - 2012.04.27 12:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Phaderift wrote:Logistics are sporadic at best, never count on finding one on a specific day in the higher C4 -C4 and C5-C5 C6-C6 type holes .. we once had a chain that went 12 holes with out a kspace .... then we found a null I feel your pain..... |
Svodola Darkfury
Born-2-Kill Northern Coalition.
28
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Posted - 2012.04.28 17:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ryday wrote:it makes little sense to use an orca for everyday logistics given its mass. An Iteron V is about six times more efficient.
The mass of a C4 hole is 2b. An Orca has 250m mass and can carry around 80k w/o ore or 130k with ore whereas an Iteron V has a mass of 11.7m and can carry 38k.
An orca can carry 80k in cargo, 40k in corporate hangar, 50k in ore hangar and up to 400k in ships. So thats 100k extra per trip not including ore. I would advise taking the iteron with you into high sec and running THAT all over the place, then let the orca shuttle everything in in a single trip. You can haul a lot more per m3 with the iteron, but you're also making 3x as many trips. I never need the full mass of the wormhole so its really your needs: the mass or the time.
Svo. |
Borg Stoneson
SWARTA Mostly Clueless
31
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Posted - 2012.05.02 22:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you have a Highsec static then Logistics should never be a problem. A Lowsec static also makes for easy logistics as long as you have a blockade runner A Nullsec static is always a pain for logistics unless you happen to be blue to half of null
If your static is a C1,2 or 3 then you should have a pretty easy time finding a way to empire but you shouldn't count on having one every single day! (just most days)
A C4 static, especialy a C4 to C4 is probably the most difficult non Nullsec WH in terms of logistics, you'll have few k162's and on occasion you'll end up following "The Chain" of C4>C4>C4>C4>C4>C5!>C4>C4>C4>etc>etc. If you have decent scanners and don't mind collapsing WH's you can reasonably expect 3-4 empire connects a week, just be prepared to work for them.
C5 or C6 statics have a reasonable chance of having a C1-3 static themselves, and failing that they also have a reasonable LS/HS random WH chance, I'd class them as slightly easier logisticaly than C4's, but some people will dissagree. |
Chitsa Jason
High Intellion Exhale.
120
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Posted - 2012.05.03 01:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Borg Stoneson wrote:If you have a Highsec static then Logistics should never be a problem. A Lowsec static also makes for easy logistics as long as you have a blockade runner A Nullsec static is always a pain for logistics unless you happen to be blue to half of null
If your static is a C1,2 or 3 then you should have a pretty easy time finding a way to empire but you shouldn't count on having one every single day! (just most days)
A C4 static, especialy a C4 to C4 is probably the most difficult non Nullsec WH in terms of logistics, you'll have few k162's and on occasion you'll end up following "The Chain" of C4>C4>C4>C4>C4>C5!>C4>C4>C4>etc>etc. If you have decent scanners and don't mind collapsing WH's you can reasonably expect 3-4 empire connects a week, just be prepared to work for them.
C5 or C6 statics have a reasonable chance of having a C1-3 static themselves, and failing that they also have a reasonable LS/HS random WH chance, I'd class them as slightly easier logisticaly than C4's, but some people will dissagree.
God i hate C4s... |
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