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Backdaft
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Posted - 2009.03.05 15:31:00 -
[1]
On the test server all my old probes and bpo's are just GONE. That's scary. It didn't look like my char was compensated in any way for the loss. But it is the test server.
But what happens when the expansion goes live? Do they get knocked off the market and auto-reprocessed back to their perfect mineral costs? Do all the exploration probes just turn into basic Core probes?
I see on the test server that the new probe types will be cheaper to manufacture. That's good thinking, as that way no one will horde "old style" probes to try and make free profit.
But I have a character that's heavy into the current probe production. Two full sets (or more) of researched probe bpo's and 10's of millions in probe inventory.
So my spreadsheets are telling me a Core probe will cost roughly 1.6k isk/ea which is about the cost of the current Quest probes. But a Grav Sift probe takes about 6.1k isk/ea (at current Jita mineral costs) to manufacture. So a Sift probe is 3.48x more expensive to build -and I've got thousands of these in my inventory. So if on expansion day they all magically turn into core probes then I stand to lose 10's of millions - if not more.
So I really need the Devs to stepup and clarify this subject. Do I need to run a full reprocessing (I fortunately have a char with perfect reproc) on all my probes before the expansion hits to avoid taking massive losses?
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bigsteve
Minmatar STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 15:50:00 -
[2]
DONT FORGET THAT Probes are recoverable, SO if your careful and remember to recover them, you will only need to fork out the ISK once. ==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Who Blew me |
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2009.03.05 16:18:00 -
[3]
Exploration-type probes (including multispecs) will become Core probes Combat-type probes will become Combat probes Observators will become Deep Space probes All launchers will become Expanded launchers Blueprints go the same way as the thing they produce Sisters versions will stay Sisters versions and follow the above plan
I'm not going to issue any kind of suggestions regarding economic speculations because as always, things may change. That's the plan as it stands though.
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Backdaft
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Posted - 2009.03.05 18:08:00 -
[4]
Thanks. The timely help is much appreciated.
So here's my plan then for others that may be in the same position:
Keep all my Quest probes. They cost about the same to manufacture as a Core probe.
All Multispec(4.1x), Sift(3.48x), Comb(3.28x), and Pursuit (2x) probes get crushed back to raw mins because of their higher production costs.
Keep the Snoop, Fathom, and Ferret probes as they are roughly the same price as a Combat probe and not worth the trouble to remanufacture.
Crush the Spook probes (1.27x) - They take 2 mega so cost a bit more.
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EvilSpork
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 18:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: EvilSpork on 05/03/2009 18:52:05
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
All launchers will become Expanded launchers
including current sisters recon launchers?
they currently offer slightly less cpu use than the other 3 types
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Reten Kip
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:05:00 -
[6]
Yeah the probe market is going to be shot in the face.
I would much prefer that you made probe irrecoverable. Ability to move them around in space is great, I love that, but don't let us scoop them back up. Save the probe market a little bit.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Exploration-type probes (including multispecs) will become Core probes Combat-type probes will become Combat probes Observators will become Deep Space probes All launchers will become Expanded launchers Blueprints go the same way as the thing they produce Sisters versions will stay Sisters versions and follow the above plan
I'm not going to issue any kind of suggestions regarding economic speculations because as always, things may change. That's the plan as it stands though.
Let's say you have a surplus of 100 probes for every occasion. Signature type, sensor range, etc.
400 Grav, 400 Radar, 400 Magneto, 400 Radar, 100 Multi -->> 1700 Core Probes. 100 Fathom, 100 Ferret, 100 Snoop, 100 Spook -->> 400 Combat Probes.
Now let's consider, that with the variable ranges, you can completely scour a system with as little as 4-6 probes... Leaving you with a stock of 1694/394 to try and sell off or keep and let collect dust.
Then lets' take into consideration, the researched BPOs you have for all these. 4 Grav, 4 Radar, 4 Magneto, 4 Radar, 1 Multi -->> 17 Core Probe BPO. Fathom, Ferret, Snoop, Spook -->> 4 Combat Probe BPO.
This leaves everyone with 16/3 BPO to try and get rid of, or to line the bottom of their bird cages.
I estimate that by the end of March, every man, woman, and child will own a dozen probes, and their own (useless) set of BPOs. So... How's that NPC buyback plan coming along? --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Reten Kip Yeah the probe market is going to be shot in the face.
I would much prefer that you made probe irrecoverable. Ability to move them around in space is great, I love that, but don't let us scoop them back up. Save the probe market a little bit.
Thought about that myself, but it really doesn't make much sense.
What does make sense however, is to make their fuel supply akin to crystal damage. Or perhaps simply say that they use a crystal of some sort in scanning. Then they can't be refueled/repackaged after initial use. And they will eventually break down and need replacement. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Reten Kip
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Originally by: Reten Kip Yeah the probe market is going to be shot in the face.
I would much prefer that you made probe irrecoverable. Ability to move them around in space is great, I love that, but don't let us scoop them back up. Save the probe market a little bit.
Thought about that myself, but it really doesn't make much sense.
What does make sense however, is to make their fuel supply akin to crystal damage. Or perhaps simply say that they use a crystal of some sort in scanning. Then they can't be refueled/repackaged after initial use. And they will eventually break down and need replacement.
Something like that would work, but if you can't stack them in your hold, it's just a pain in the ass to reuse them.
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Hecknar
PPN Holding Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:14:00 -
[10]
But then they wou't be able to be fired by the existing probelaunchers...
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.05 19:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 05/03/2009 19:28:47 "Pain to use" Why? You only need 6 of them to scan a whole system. So you keep the extras in a Small Can in your hold, with 6 directly in the hold for use, and you're set.
"Can't be fired" Again, why? It would be as simple as making the probe launchers function similar to T2 lasers. They don't have an issue loading used ammo over fresh. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.05 20:15:00 -
[12]
some loosers but it has to be done ( loosers in economic sense) adapt and survive the market will be improved
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Reten Kip
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.03.05 20:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Reten Kip on 05/03/2009 20:23:28
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 05/03/2009 19:28:47 "Pain to use" Why? You only need 6 of them to scan a whole system. So you keep the extras in a Small Can in your hold, with 6 directly in the hold for use, and you're set.
"Can't be fired" Again, why? It would be as simple as making the probe launchers function similar to T2 lasers. They don't have an issue loading used ammo over fresh.
It's a pain to reuse them if you can't stack them because then you'd have to reload them one at a time. It's not that it's hard, it's that it's tedious, and there's no good reason for it to be so.
As far as adapting to the new probe market, the whole point is that there won't be a probe market. All probe manufacturers are SOL, they'll have to get out of the probe game completely.
Imagine what the hybrid ammo market would be like if the ammo wasn't actually consumed. Ever.
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Backdaft
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Posted - 2009.03.05 23:53:00 -
[14]
Yup the probe market is ruined. They'll be dirt cheap and everyone will have a stack of them laying around.
But I can see why they made them reusable. Mostly its no big deal if you lose them, or have to leave them behind. Just buy more. BUT, if you're trapped in wormhole space, then suddenly you really need your probes to help get back, and you don't want them breaking down -and you won't dare lose them if you can help it. LOL.
In fact, as cheap as they'll be, I suppose it's possible players will just jettison used ones if they can't repackage them, if it's too much of a pain to reload them one at a time into the launcher.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.06 00:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Backdaft I suppose it's possible players will just jettison used ones if they can't repackage them, if it's too much of a pain to reload them one at a time into the launcher.
That's been fixed last time I looked, they were arriving back in my cargo hold as repackaged singletons that could be restacked with a stack all command. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.03.06 00:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
All launchers will become Expanded launchers
Really? Wouldnt it be more logical to convert scan launchers into core launchers, and recon launchers into expanded launchers?
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Backdaft
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Posted - 2009.03.06 00:44:00 -
[17]
I forgot to double check the stats on this, but last time the launchers were mentioned they were all converting to Expanded because it has the same fitting requirements hence likely the exact same manufacturing cost.
The Core launchers only need like 15 cpu IIRC, so will likely be very cheap to produce and much easier to stick on any ship that still has an empty high slot. I still need to play with these on the test server to see how they compare to regular launchers for speed, etc.
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