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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
L4ST
Helios Alliance C0NVICTED
15
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:31:00 -
[361] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:And none of us are denying being care bears, I even know a few goons that spend most of their time bearing it up, what we do object to is to risk averse high sec carebears that want to kill PvP and just sit in their high sec safe zones with tol barad guards concord fighting their fights for them.
Basically my point is: Make going out on your own and fighting your own fights less destructive to your wallet and less unfair (see my edit in last post). Why would anyone want to go out there knowing that there are traps, traps, traps everywhere, without any chance for real fights, and if you lose, you lose a LOT.
Whatever would fix the problem the OP stated would be a very big change to the game, so, wont really happen. |
Jonah Gravenstein
213
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:33:00 -
[362] - Quote
ITT Miners make the OP cry, well done miners
That was quite possibly one of the longest posts I have ever seen on these forums, it also had no point and basically consisted of the OP crying that highsec kills the game while constantly avoiding making any sense at all.
I'll admit to being a carebear, I used to mine but jesus breast fornicating christ it's boring, even though I'm a carebear I have no beef with PVP, it makes life interesting, it makes the game interesting, without the constant risk of PVP I may as go and play on another MMOs PVE server.
Just because I don't play the way that others play doesn't make my playstyle wrong, it's just different. I'm not here to ruin the game, I'm here to have fun, if in the process of me having fun it ruins other peoples game then all I can say is welcome to Eve.
If PVP players can ruin the PVE players game, PVE players should have an equal oppurtunity to ruin the PVP players game. It's a game, different people have fun in different ways, HTFU. Salt water collection receptacle at the ready War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
112
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:35:00 -
[363] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Takseen wrote:There's also the fact that offensive dps increases have massively outstripped increases in tank for miners. T2 guns, faction ammo, artillery buffed to be alpha gods, a whole heap of different skills that can be dumped into dps increases, and not a whole lot that can increase your tank, especially passive tank.
If you constantly buff a pirate's ability to lock and kill ****, and only buff a miner's mining yield, suicide ganking is just the natural progression. If you continually allow everyone in high sec to easily evade war decs, and to continue earning non-meaningless amounts of ISK, then suicide ganking is the natural progression. In fact, it is the only course of action left.
Very true. That's a symptom of the attacker favoured war dec system. If a miner corp had more incentive to stick around and put up a fight in a defensive war, there'd be less need to rely on suicide ganks. Some ideas off the top of my head
-if corps offered bonuses the longer they'd been in existence and the more activities they'd carried out, dropping corp to avoid wardecs would be less attractive. -mercenaries should be able to "guarantee the safety" of miner corps. If anyone decs the miners, they get a cheaper counter dec. -some way to force conflict. Even if it was as simple as the attacker setting up a structure, call it a flag, somewhere in highsec. If the flag gets taken out by the defenders, the attackers are forced to surrender, or maybe just financially penalised. This offers the defenders a clear way to end the way if they can gain a combat advantage, even if its just piling everyone into a bunch of rifters.
Oh and you'd need to fix neutral remote reps, if they haven't already. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
661
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:37:00 -
[364] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Hi sec miners are the main low ends providers. Whatever you do to them, ANY kind of reduction of their yield, will reflect in double digits % prices increase. The less of them / the less efficient of them you get, the higher you pay them.
Unless they become less efficient relative to another area of space. Say, null sec and low sec.
Then you pay them marginally less, and miners outside of high sec slightly more.
Is there something complicated about this concept?[/quote]
Yes, the complicated concept is that you are deluded if you believe 0.0 miners with bother with Trit and Pyerite. They have ABC, they don't have endless trillions of room to store bulky low value per m3 low ends.
Therefore reduce the hi sec efficiency and make me richer, since I am mining in the mineral markets and as of now just doubled the value of the stuff I am holding. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Exie
Endless Possibilities Inc.
1
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:39:00 -
[365] - Quote
Mentorm wrote:Too Long Didn't Read
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Alabaster Ra
Stoic Assembly Lines Trade Federation Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:49:00 -
[366] - Quote
First congrats on your orca kills. Sounds like you put a lot of time into them, so your satisfaction is understandable.
The main thing I got from this however is: I'm evil. SWEET. Never fired a shot at a player and yet I'm evil. By which I of course mean, everything is going according to plan, all according to plan.
To at least some extent, you are correct. I was attracted to EvE for the scandal, espionage, null sec politics, and banking scams. It just turns out that I love producing things and mining a hell of a lot more than blowing ships up. As a carebear, I will admit to wanting a safe high sec where others really can't ruin my day "for the lulz". However, I think you have over estimated the value we place on such a paradise. While it sometimes makes me drool to think about, I know that isn't EvE. I'm here because production does involve risk. I'm here because people can use the tools at their disposal for creation or destruction. In preservation of that freedom, I will never seriously ask for or expect safety. Instead, I'll happily take (and/or abuse) whatever tools CCP chooses to give me and accept what risks I must with a watchful eye on local, a pre-aligned ship, and my finger on the warp option.
I'm so happy with the mineral changes I legitimately hope you pvp'rs get something nice in the coming months. I know the changes hit the smash and brawl crowd hard. Of course, whatever that change is, I'll probably be a whole lot less happy once its implemented >.> |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
243
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:51:00 -
[367] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Takseen wrote:There's also the fact that offensive dps increases have massively outstripped increases in tank for miners. T2 guns, faction ammo, artillery buffed to be alpha gods, a whole heap of different skills that can be dumped into dps increases, and not a whole lot that can increase your tank, especially passive tank.
If you constantly buff a pirate's ability to lock and kill ****, and only buff a miner's mining yield, suicide ganking is just the natural progression. If you continually allow everyone in high sec to easily evade war decs, and to continue earning non-meaningless amounts of ISK, then suicide ganking is the natural progression. In fact, it is the only course of action left. Very true. That's a symptom of the attacker favoured war dec system. If a miner corp had more incentive to stick around and put up a fight in a defensive war, there'd be less need to rely on suicide ganks. Some ideas off the top of my head -if corps offered bonuses the longer they'd been in existence and the more activities they'd carried out, dropping corp to avoid wardecs would be less attractive. -mercenaries should be able to "guarantee the safety" of miner corps. If anyone decs the miners, they get a cheaper counter dec. -some way to force conflict. Even if it was as simple as the attacker setting up a structure, call it a flag, somewhere in highsec. If the flag gets taken out by the defenders, the attackers are forced to surrender, or maybe just financially penalised. This offers the defenders a clear way to end the way if they can gain a combat advantage, even if its just piling everyone into a bunch of rifters. Oh and you'd need to fix neutral remote reps, if they haven't already.
I read the OP and then avoided the rest of the thread. Can you quote me the parts where the OP cried? Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
243
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:51:00 -
[368] - Quote
Exie wrote:Mentorm wrote:Too Long Can't Read
FYP Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Kurai Okala
Okala Corp
14
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:52:00 -
[369] - Quote
I've never seen someone use so many words to say so little. (...and I work for the government so that's saying something)
TLDR version: CCP is killing PVP and it's all the carebear's fault.. |
Kazacy
BACKFIRE Squad S O L A R I S
20
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:52:00 -
[370] - Quote
to the OP: it was a long but also very good read; thank you. |
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Ostrine Renalard
Support Operations Limited
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:06:00 -
[371] - Quote
I wish I could like this 1000 times |
Radax Glenn
Flaming Dagger
4
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:08:00 -
[372] - Quote
With all due respect, to the OP: Holy F***ing S***, Dude!
While I can appreciate the time and effort you put into this, it has several logical fallacies, and at times it comes off as a little creepy. Not intentionally trying to flame/troll here, and it's clear you have a passionate investment in your work: but most of the arguments you listed are weak.
I fully support Ganking Botters when you find them. I also agree that AFK mining should be curbed to a degree. (Meaning, if I have to run go take wizz for 2, that should be cool, but the reports I hear of people mining while AFK for hours at a time I agree need to be stopped.)
I mine in hi-sec, and the gankers keep me on my toes. The gankers give an element of danger and the potential for loss on a scale the NPC rats were never intended to do in hi-sec.
So, IMHO from Joe Nobody:
A+ for Effort D- for Substance F for Delivery |
Zordon
EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:13:00 -
[373] - Quote
So true 315...
I will stand by the believer and continue to ****, pillage, harass, and annihilate all carebears and non-believers in high-sec... Manifesto II is the NEW New Eden Bible. I shall live by the words put forth here and cleanse the filth from our servers. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
244
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:13:00 -
[374] - Quote
Radax Glenn wrote:With all due respect, to the OP: Holy F***ing S***, Dude!
While I can appreciate the time and effort you put into this, it has several logical fallacies, and at times it comes off as a little creepy. Not intentionally trying to flame/troll here, and it's clear you have a passionate investment in your work: but most of the arguments you listed are weak.
I fully support Ganking Botters when you find them. I also agree that AFK mining should be curbed to a degree. (Meaning, if I have to run go take wizz for 2, that should be cool, but the reports I hear of people mining while AFK for hours at a time I agree need to be stopped.)
I mine in hi-sec, and the gankers keep me on my toes. The gankers give an element of danger and the potential for loss on a scale the NPC rats were never intended to do in hi-sec.
So, IMHO from Joe Nobody:
A+ for Effort D- for Substance F for Delivery
If you go AFK you run the risk of being popped. Maybe you need to be reminded of this? Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Radax Glenn
Flaming Dagger
4
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:21:00 -
[375] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:If you go AFK you run the risk of being popped. Maybe you need to be reminded of this?
True enough.
I mine in Nakugard all the time, you are more than welcome to try.
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Jonah Gravenstein
214
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:26:00 -
[376] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:ITT Miners make the OP cry, well done miners That was quite possibly one of the longest posts I have ever seen on these forums, it also had no point and basically consisted of the OP crying that highsec kills the game while constantly avoiding making any sense at all. I'll admit to being a carebear, I used to mine but jesus breast fornicating christ it's boring, even though I'm a carebear I have no beef with PVP, it makes life interesting, it makes the game interesting, without the constant risk of PVP I may as go and play on another MMOs PVE server. Just because I don't play the way that others play doesn't make my playstyle wrong, it's just different. I'm not here to ruin the game, I'm here to have fun, if in the process of me having fun it ruins other peoples game then all I can say is welcome to Eve. If PVP players can ruin the PVE players game, PVE players should have an equal oppurtunity to ruin the PVP players game. It's a game, different people have fun in different ways, HTFU. Salt water collection receptacle at the ready I read the OP and then avoided the rest of the thread. Can you quote me the parts where the OP cried? Edit: FMP
I was being literal, I lost enough braincells reading it the first time , I'm not doing it again. In retrospect crying was probably the wrong word to use, but along with tears it's such a fashionable word right now from both PVE and PVP sides of the arguement that I inadvertently joined the sheeple . It still made no sense but that may because my attention span wandered after about post # 6 and I started to watch my little pony on youtube to recover some sanity War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
245
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:50:00 -
[377] - Quote
Radax Glenn wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:If you go AFK you run the risk of being popped. Maybe you need to be reminded of this? True enough. I mine in Nakugard all the time, you are more than welcome to try.
I've gone AFK while mining. Sometimes I got popped, sometimes, I didn't. If I go AFK while undocked I fully expect to be popped. If you have to go AFK, dock up. It isn't hard. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
245
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:51:00 -
[378] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:ITT Miners make the OP cry, well done miners That was quite possibly one of the longest posts I have ever seen on these forums, it also had no point and basically consisted of the OP crying that highsec kills the game while constantly avoiding making any sense at all. I'll admit to being a carebear, I used to mine but jesus breast fornicating christ it's boring, even though I'm a carebear I have no beef with PVP, it makes life interesting, it makes the game interesting, without the constant risk of PVP I may as go and play on another MMOs PVE server. Just because I don't play the way that others play doesn't make my playstyle wrong, it's just different. I'm not here to ruin the game, I'm here to have fun, if in the process of me having fun it ruins other peoples game then all I can say is welcome to Eve. If PVP players can ruin the PVE players game, PVE players should have an equal oppurtunity to ruin the PVP players game. It's a game, different people have fun in different ways, HTFU. Salt water collection receptacle at the ready I read the OP and then avoided the rest of the thread. Can you quote me the parts where the OP cried? Edit: FMP I was being literal, I lost enough braincells reading it the first time , I'm not doing it again. In retrospect crying was probably the wrong word to use, but along with tears it's such a fashionable word right now from both PVE and PVP sides of the arguement that I inadvertently joined the sheeple . It still made no sense but that may because my attention span wandered after about post # 6 and I started to watch my little pony on youtube to recover some sanity
I hear Adderall does wonders for the attention span. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Jonah Gravenstein
216
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:57:00 -
[379] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:I hear Adderall does wonders for the attention span.
lol, so does not being bored to tears by a long winded multipost that could have summed up in the first 3 posts.
Adderall and Ritalen don't play nice with my current prescription anyway
Nothing against the OP, but by gum they should consider writing speeches for politicians, they specialise at saying not a lot with an awful lot of words . Me, I prefer short, sweet and to the point. War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Kale Eledar
Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji
32
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Posted - 2012.04.27 19:04:00 -
[380] - Quote
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
time to brush up, op
Also, Scholastic has competitive rates for novellas The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it. See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread |
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Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
44
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Posted - 2012.04.27 19:08:00 -
[381] - Quote
TL; NWR |
Daemon Ceed
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
64
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Posted - 2012.04.27 19:13:00 -
[382] - Quote
OP: Dude, get a feckin' job! I feel like my eyes were viciously raped by your wall of text. You're illusion of self-importance is absurd and should be punished by constant podding. There are obvious problems, but your calls so-called "manifesto" is almost so verbose and akin to the sort of rhetoric that would even make a WWII era **** say, "TL;DR".
Put down the keyboard, go outside, and find a woman who may be kind enough to grant you access to her genital region. On second thought, scratch that. I'd hate for your progeny to infest our already screwed up gene pool. Just stop posting. Post with your main or GTFO! |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2012.04.27 19:14:00 -
[383] - Quote
"I don't like complete security, and I do like when a large group of players who live in complete security have that pulled away temporarily. It's going to be healthy." Kristoffer Touborg, on the Burn Jita campaign.
I think EVE is in good hands. That which does not kill you, makes you stronger.-á Friedrich Nietzsche
That which does not kill you, hurts like hell.-á UNKNOWN |
Obsidian Dagger
Nitrus Nine
60
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Posted - 2012.04.27 19:18:00 -
[384] - Quote
TL:DR
Got the impression of butthurtedness, and some sort of tears about miners. |
Fracture Antollare
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.04.27 19:28:00 -
[385] - Quote
Post 9 - Wiled <> Whiled.
If CCP wishes to make EVE into the juggernaut that WoW became, then they need to focus on making it cheaper and easier for people to engage each other.
To that end, I must say this is another great series of posts. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
55
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:30:00 -
[386] - Quote
James 315 wrote: When I arrived in his ice field, having carefully crafted a way to destroy his supposedly invincible ship, and having painstakingly calculated the means to kill his supposedly unkillable pod--that was the first time he ever played EVE.
Quoted for bump and for support. The fight begins today. |
Blunt Smoker269
high times industries High Sec Dropouts
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:30:00 -
[387] - Quote
Too lond didn't care to read words from an alt in a NPC corp!!!! |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
484
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:39:00 -
[388] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:James 315 wrote: When I arrived in his ice field, having carefully crafted a way to destroy his supposedly invincible ship, and having painstakingly calculated the means to kill his supposedly unkillable pod--that was the first time he ever played EVE.
Quoted for bump and for support. The fight begins today. I don't think he wanted to play EVE. Not that kind of EVE, not that way.
But that's the thing about multiplayer games.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Joe Skellington
13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary
57
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:41:00 -
[389] - Quote
TL;DR -á-á |\__/|-á -á/ @ @ \ -á-á -á( > -¦ < )-á -á`-+-+x-½-½-¦ -á-á / O \ |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
484
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Posted - 2012.04.27 20:46:00 -
[390] - Quote
Joe Skellington wrote:TL;DR No shame in not reading and just posting. This is the EVE-O Forums: General Discussion, after all. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
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