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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Testerxnot Sheepherder
DeadHeads - Question Authority Crew
135
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Posted - 2012.04.27 09:24:00 -
[211] - Quote
OP is a ******* ******.
There, I said it. |
Mark Androcius
56
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Posted - 2012.04.27 09:28:00 -
[212] - Quote
I managed to focus on a hand full of paragraphs and all i could deduce from it, is that the OP finds it strange that mining corporations do not defend themselves.
The OP points out that, almost all mining characters refuse to switch to a fighting ship.
Well OP, let me just help you out with that.
Before you can even begin to think you can defend yourself, you need to have trained at least the cruiser skill of a preferred faction, you need to have small and medium weapons skills complimenting the ship you're flying to at least level 4, you need to have a good couple of Engineering skills to level 3 ( at least ), some mechanic skills are also much wanted, maybe drone skills, add those too.
Now, if you focus on mining, refining and manufacturing, maybe some PI and some research, you're already looking at 20 million skill points, just to have that all reasonably maxed out. Seeing as the average player trains about 1.3 - 1.5 million skill points per month, you're looking at at least 1 and a quarter years, just to get good at industry.
I don't know how your mathematical intelligence works, but training to also be able to defend yourself, even though you'd only really need to 3 times a year ( i think that's about the average ), sound very inefficient to me.
Btw, just so you know.... The fact that making isk has become one of the most important features of this game, is ENTIRELY CCP's fault. By intoducing PLEX, they have done a few things. 1) Gave access to "previously" hard to get ships and modules that would otherwise be to expensive for most. 2) Gave people who have time/talent and knowledge of how to make isk, a way to play the game for free. 3) Gave people a reason to farm as much isk as possible, just so they could play for free. 4) A lot more, but i think if you think about it, you could come up with those yourself. If a man speaks his mind in the forest and no woman hears him, is he still wrong? |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1264
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Posted - 2012.04.27 09:45:00 -
[213] - Quote
Stirko Hek wrote:Secondly, your concept of wardecs is, again, flawed. PVP-averse players basically want an escape function, the ability to just IDCLIP/IDSPISPOPD and run away from an ingame event with nothing to stop them, is your argument. Dear god, why? Why even bother playing EVE with that logic? My previous post had the point that fun and achievement are only felt when there is an actual risk component in what is being done. If there is no risk of failure or loss, then what victory or achievement do you even have?
So wardec a corp that will fight back? Of if it's industrialists who are competing with your interests, just suicide gank their mining ships and transports and be done with it: no need for a wardec. Wardecs are apparently fun to a great many people who don't want that sense of achievement from facing risk and coming out on top.
I didn't say that I like the ability for corps to escape wardecs, but neither do I like the ability for griefers to serial-wardec individual players to basically force them out of the game. Where do you draw the line? Drawing the line on the side where people can avoid wardecs makes more sense to me than drawing it on the side where people get to grief others out of the game.
You can go suicide gank that capsuleer still. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. If CCP was actually trying to remove all PvP from hisec, they'd lock weapons so you couldn't shoot anyone. Please stop whining about how you can't get your cheap easy kills in hisec. The kills are still there to be had, you just have some hurdles in between your ganking and driving someone from the game.
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March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
167
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Posted - 2012.04.27 09:53:00 -
[214] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:both sides are asking CCP to change/remove/nerf/buff they way the other side plays the game.
everyone is a hypocrite. When was the last time non-consensual PvP got a buff? Now think of all the "features" CCP have introduced over the years that allow you to avoid that PvP. let's remember: - supers nerf (drones + logoffski) - titan nerf (guns + tracking) - jump bridges nerf (boost to gate camping, nerf to "carebears in JFs") - new T3 battlecruisers (cheaper gank) - boost to hybrids (cheaper gank) - ...? |
Sedrie
Apple Industries Inc. Surely You're Joking
5
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:03:00 -
[215] - Quote
James 315 wrote:At the very same time, these carebears are asking CCP to ban the way you choose to play the game. Ironic, no? I suppose "hypocrisy" would be a better word.
But the carebear ideology and the culture of EVE cannot coexist. There is no "sandbox" when one group is trying to ban the activities of the other group.
Jesus tap dancing christ, you're still a raving lunatic.
Miners are bad because they want to do their thing, without you blowing them up. Therefore they are hypocrites for wanting to change the game.
You want to get rid of miners because they somehow...offend your sensibilities? And by doing so, you are a self-proclaimed hypocrite for changing the game.
So which is it? Or are you admitting you are a hypocrite?
No, I did not read your wall of text beyond these first few lines of post #2. I had enough of your rantings in Arva local. |
Zoidberg Gahiji
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:07:00 -
[216] - Quote
You forgot Incursions and the Incursionbears. They brought a whole new breed of carebears, beargreed, bearentitlement and bearelitism to EVE which are far more reckless than any bear before them.
You are also focusing too much on miners. Death-to-PvP-Bears are everywhere and not limited to mining.
And you are too much of a goon *****. There are way too many paragraphs where you praise goons and jump around yelling "I want to marry mittens! I want to marry mittens!". Was rather disgusting to read and your poorest parts. Furthermore you conveniently ignore that most of the recent hi sec nerfs came through due to their actions and campaigns in the first place and forced and bloated the issue.
Lastly you didn't proof anything. You just jabber a lot without any references at all.
7/10 for your tremendous effort. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
792
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:07:00 -
[217] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:both sides are asking CCP to change/remove/nerf/buff they way the other side plays the game.
everyone is a hypocrite. When was the last time non-consensual PvP got a buff? Now think of all the "features" CCP have introduced over the years that allow you to avoid that PvP. let's remember: - supers nerf (drones + logoffski) - titan nerf (guns + tracking) - jump bridges nerf (boost to gate camping, nerf to "carebears in JFs") - new T3 battlecruisers (cheaper gank) - boost to hybrids (cheaper gank) - ...? None of that has anything to do with non-consensual PvP, and supers and titans are really relevent when it comes to high sec risk averse care bears. I hear they farm level fours and run mining ops in their tracking titans all the time.
As for your comment on tier 3s and destroyers, that just shows you haven't read the OP. I recommend you read it before commenting on it, or at least search for the relevant section.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
167
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:09:00 -
[218] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:Using neutral logistics to hide your gang's fighting strength in a fleet engagement doesn't even come close to being able to having the ability to not only force project but also completely hide your entire gang over an entire region. Titan can be killed, cyno alt can be killed, target system can be cyno jammed, cynos and titan-bridges need fuel. Titan pilots are known to all spies (and in watchlist already), cyno alts can be detected and watchlisted too. Intelligence at work.
Neutral logistics ships just do the job and can't be countered without CONCORD intervention. New mechanic helps a little but ....
see the difference?
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March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
167
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:10:00 -
[219] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:March rabbit wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:both sides are asking CCP to change/remove/nerf/buff they way the other side plays the game.
everyone is a hypocrite. When was the last time non-consensual PvP got a buff? Now think of all the "features" CCP have introduced over the years that allow you to avoid that PvP. let's remember: - supers nerf (drones + logoffski) - titan nerf (guns + tracking) - jump bridges nerf (boost to gate camping, nerf to "carebears in JFs") - new T3 battlecruisers (cheaper gank) - boost to hybrids (cheaper gank) - ...? None of that has anything to do with non-consensual PvP, and supers and titans are really relevent when it comes to high sec risk averse care bears. I hear they farm level fours and run mining ops in their tracking titans all the time. As for your comment on tier 3s and destroyers, that just shows you haven't read the OP. I recommend you read it before commenting on it, or at least search for the relevant section. only if you read whole posts chain......
but this is not for us, yea? |
Stirko Hek
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:32:00 -
[220] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: Wardecs are apparently fun to a great many people who don't want that sense of achievement from facing risk and coming out on top.
What a load of crap. I was running a single man corp on an alt, wardeccing mining corps of 20+ people. One alt against multiple others. I'd say winning a fight like that would be coming out on top, pure because if these miners just fit a bunch of rifters, thrashers or even a rookie ships, they'd have been able to defend themselves easily.
That is the problem here, where these 100~ man corps will basically jump ship to an alt corp to hide from a wardec from a single man corp. Telling me I shouldn't be mean and go after these poor, weak miners who can't even engage me twenty to one is just plain weak, it's a poor argument.
Worst of all, you're ignoring the sandbox issue. In a sandbox game, I'm free to wardec them. Instead of running and hiding, they are also free to shoot back at me in ships of their choice. All they need do is keep a good eye on local, dock up when a wartarget enters, swap ships and bait the sucker. The dumb part of it all is that they're so scared of a single pilot, they won't even dare risk cheap t1 ships to beat that person at their own game.
Are high sec miners that sentimental about virtual goods? |
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TWHC Assistant
20
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:38:00 -
[221] - Quote
Is this what you call a rant? |
Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
45
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:39:00 -
[222] - Quote
I usually find gankers tears delicious but in this case they're not.
I completely agree with everything you've written and i think all these response posts are just the symptoms of the cancer showing.
However i think the solution would be far simpler: let them mine, let them make high sec completely pve.
But remove every kind of profit from it, you want to mine in high sec? Fine, you wont make more than 10ml/hour with a max skilled hulk and orca boosts.
That's how it should be imho: let them do what they wont, just balance the risk/reward aspect. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
809
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:41:00 -
[223] - Quote
OK, I apologise for not reading it through fully before making a judgement, that was my bad.
I still think it's a hysterical pile of ****. Carebears might be a problem but you're not going to get the disparate forces of EVE Online to unite in any manner - especially not by insulting large swathes of them. Andreus Anthony LeHane Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Animated Corporate Logos |
Stirko Hek
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:50:00 -
[224] - Quote
Just Alter wrote: But remove every kind of profit from it, you want to mine in high sec? Fine, you wont make more than 10ml/hour with a max skilled hulk and orca boosts.
That's how it should be imho: let them do what they wont, just balance the risk/reward aspect.
This, if you want safety it comes at a price. That price is grinding low end ores for pennies. Just like any other game, low risk = low reward. Want the good stuff? Learn to watch local, pay attention and actually play the game. |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:51:00 -
[225] - Quote
Mentorm wrote:Too Long Didn't Read +1 gone to read evenews24 instead |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
295
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:54:00 -
[226] - Quote
OMG! H-ítler plays Eve?!?!
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1264
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Posted - 2012.04.27 10:58:00 -
[227] - Quote
Stirko Hek wrote:Mara Rinn wrote: Wardecs are apparently fun to a great many people who don't want that sense of achievement from facing risk and coming out on top.
What a load of crap. I was running a single man corp on an alt, wardeccing mining corps of 20+ people. One alt against multiple others. I'd say winning a fight like that would be coming out on top, pure because if these miners just fit a bunch of rifters, thrashers or even a rookie ships, they'd have been able to defend themselves easily.
What risk did you face?
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1264
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:03:00 -
[228] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Titan can be killed, cyno alt can be killed, target system can be cyno jammed, cynos and titan-bridges need fuel. Titan pilots are known to all spies (and in watchlist already), cyno alts can be detected and watchlisted too. Intelligence at work.
Neutral logistics ships just do the job and can't be countered without CONCORD intervention.
Neutral logistics go blinky red when they rep your war targets. You can shoot them just fine. The Incursion tweaks did not change that: the Incursion tweaks simply meant that a logistics pilot can choose to no longer rep a GCC target.
On the other hand, neutral off-grid boosters are certainly a problem for hisec wardecs. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
658
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:07:00 -
[229] - Quote
Stirko Hek wrote:Just Alter wrote: But remove every kind of profit from it, you want to mine in high sec? Fine, you wont make more than 10ml/hour with a max skilled hulk and orca boosts.
That's how it should be imho: let them do what they wont, just balance the risk/reward aspect.
This, if you want safety it comes at a price. That price is grinding low end ores for pennies. Just like any other game, low risk = low reward. Want the good stuff? Learn to watch local, pay attention and actually play the game.
How would you exactly make the earn just pennies?
Trit, Pyerite etc, have exactly the value you and others put into them. By default they could be worth close to zero.
It's players choices to pay more than just pennies, you can do nothing against that.
Actually there is a solution: you and your buddies embrace mining and stop buying from hi seccers. You'll see how fun mining is. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
792
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:08:00 -
[230] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:March rabbit wrote:Titan can be killed, cyno alt can be killed, target system can be cyno jammed, cynos and titan-bridges need fuel. Titan pilots are known to all spies (and in watchlist already), cyno alts can be detected and watchlisted too. Intelligence at work.
Neutral logistics ships just do the job and can't be countered without CONCORD intervention. Neutral logistics go blinky red when they rep your war targets. You can shoot them just fine. The Incursion tweaks did not change that: the Incursion tweaks simply meant that a logistics pilot can choose to no longer rep a GCC target. On the other hand, neutral off-grid boosters are certainly a problem for hisec wardecs. Neutral RR is a problem for high sec PvP, if you claim otherwise you've probably never done any high sec PvP.
Neutral RR and the simplicity of war dec evasion are the two reasons everyone I know who has tried high sec wars have given up on them and returned to real space.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
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Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
484
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:09:00 -
[231] - Quote
I like turtles.
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
792
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:10:00 -
[232] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Stirko Hek wrote:Just Alter wrote: But remove every kind of profit from it, you want to mine in high sec? Fine, you wont make more than 10ml/hour with a max skilled hulk and orca boosts.
That's how it should be imho: let them do what they wont, just balance the risk/reward aspect.
This, if you want safety it comes at a price. That price is grinding low end ores for pennies. Just like any other game, low risk = low reward. Want the good stuff? Learn to watch local, pay attention and actually play the game. How would you exactly make the earn just pennies? Trit, Pyerite etc, have exactly the value you and others put into them. By default they could be worth close to zero. It's players choices to pay more than just pennies, you can do nothing agaist that. You can reduce their spawn rate, reduce the yield in high sec or you could... You know... Design a war system that isn't laughably easy to bypass. Hell, you could even buff suicide ganking.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Stirko Hek
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:13:00 -
[233] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Stirko Hek wrote:Mara Rinn wrote: Wardecs are apparently fun to a great many people who don't want that sense of achievement from facing risk and coming out on top.
What a load of crap. I was running a single man corp on an alt, wardeccing mining corps of 20+ people. One alt against multiple others. I'd say winning a fight like that would be coming out on top, pure because if these miners just fit a bunch of rifters, thrashers or even a rookie ships, they'd have been able to defend themselves easily. What risk did you face?
The fact they could easily just fit some cheap frigates and shoot back against one person? Or is PVP such an alien concept to you that you could not even consider such an idea? |
Josef Djugashvilis
121
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:15:00 -
[234] - Quote
Short version.
'Op doesn't like miners' You want fries with that? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
658
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:16:00 -
[235] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: You can reduce their spawn rate, reduce the yield in high sec or you could... You know... Design a war system that isn't laughably easy to bypass. Hell, you could even buff suicide ganking.
So, you want to reduce the minerals produced and greatly increase supply shortage as a cure to miners earning too much?
I think you got economy right the opposite way it works.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Bischopt
Alekhine's Gun
87
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:28:00 -
[236] - Quote
lol |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
792
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:29:00 -
[237] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote: You can reduce their spawn rate, reduce the yield in high sec or you could... You know... Design a war system that isn't laughably easy to bypass. Hell, you could even buff suicide ganking.
So, you want to reduce the minerals produced and greatly increase supply shortage as a cure to miners earning too much? I think you got economy right the opposite way it works. Not to miners, to high sec miners.
Although personally I think the better approach would be to nerf their ability to evade war decs, and possibly turn back some of the ganking nerfs.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Lady Hofstedar
Novindus Equilibrium
67
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:30:00 -
[238] - Quote
Biggest pile of **** i have ever read from an idiot pvpers who just realised that his antics agaisnt miners in low sec has messed up one side of the game.
A long winded pile of rubbish to incite mass griefing |
Gerald Taric
Adamantium Industry
47
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:31:00 -
[239] - Quote
OP tries to hit Gerald with MASSIVE POSTING. "TL;DR" shild from Geralds ship repels it.
Before i read all of this massive wall of words, i wish to know one thing:
I myself consider me being a (proud) carebear, because i avoid PvP and prefer PvE action in WH- and HighSec-space. Nevertheless ... i'm pretty fine with the "there's no save place in EVE" and do NOT want it to be removed. In fact i consider it as a challenge.
Therefore ... how is a carebear defined in EVE?
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Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
365
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:31:00 -
[240] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:When was the last time non-consensual PvP got a buff? WH's? Edit to add: Tornado, Destroyer buffs?
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
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