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NereSky
Gallente Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.08 09:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: NereSky on 08/03/2009 09:53:57 Edited by: NereSky on 08/03/2009 09:52:48 First of all id like to apologise to the community for 'yet' another topic re CAOD but as far as i can understand the CSM's refuse to acknowlege the issue unless its put forward in a undisclosed way lol
(quote from OmberZombie 'unfortunately we can't - they do need a formal vote thread in Assembly hall. So yes, you do need to right it out.')
there has been a no of threads re this the main one being;
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1012064
Which was posted in CAOD and turned out to be quite a good topic with some very good suggestions and idea's some of which were;
Jade Constantine;
Ultimately CCP do need to take steps here and they need to be fairly draconian ones to address the pure scale of the problem.
1. They could simply remove the forum. (easy, direct, runs the danger of goons and friends spamming other forum categories.)
2. They could get extremely harsh on moderation again. (might seem like a good idea but I've seen where this leads - give a 5000 member entity the power to petition over posters into a permaban and don't be surprised when everyone gets banned bar the ones who care enough to spam the moderators with fake complaints.)
Or, let's try something new:
How about CAOD becomes a forum where a corporation or alliance needs to request posting rights from the moderation team rather than having them automatically. This would prevent the alt posting alliances immediately since the moderators could use a little human judgement in assessing the suitability of CAOD posting organizations.
And at the same time, let's have collective posting bans on the organizational level. If too many Goon posters are spamming threads lets have the moderators able to give the goonswarm a temp 48 hour posting ban for it. This would encourage the alliance leaders of Goonswarm (or anyone else) to enforce better posting standards on their membership.
Ultimately I'd like to see CAOD posting to be controlled from an in game role assignment (perhaps a PR function) and the leaders of alliances/corporations could treat it as a privilege to be earned not as a right to be misused.
The combination of application/needed to post on CAOD / collective temp bans would control the current situation in my opinion and return CAOD to a more reasonable and constructive environment to discuss space politics.
And it would also present a far better selling point and storefront for CCP to showcase the beautiful political game of the single server environment.
Now Jades post being well written as usual attracted a lot of discussion and further ideas were put forward all with their merit,
Now what im attempting to do here is post a proposal which can give a CSM something to bring forward for debate with the aim of giving what the players deserve, a enviroment which is on topic re politics in EVE without the constant trolling/flames which 'has' reached epic proportions of late,
Now i do know that CAOD has always attracted the trolls as its a very emotive forum all im asking for is a forum which is more controlled maybe incorperate ideas put forward on previous threads,
1) More moderation
Now i do know that the mods moderate and i appreciatt the diffulties they have with hundreds of posters all wanting to put their point across, but the moderators need a change and revamp of the forum rules to make them more effective
1A) after warnings, ingame fines can be given out and further progressive penalties leading to ingame penalties 1b) Alt corps identified which are created for the purpose of posting on CAOD to be perma banned from the forum
2) CAOD restrictions
Alliance/Corp representatives identified and given the ability to post ie like Alliances leaders/corp CEO's and Diplomats, if they break the rules and as they represent their own entity the punitive measure given for rule breaking is metered down to the whole entity they represent
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NereSky
Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.08 10:02:00 -
[2]
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Deldrac
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.08 10:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Deldrac on 08/03/2009 10:47:20 If you really want a CEO only forum as well, it can't hurt, though I guarantee it will be full of anodyne and worthless hurf blurf. tbh, the old intergalactic summit forum was as good as this sort of thing will ever get.
But honestly, caod has always been worthless, and it always will be, goons and INTERNET are just open and honest about this.
Jade is just upset because Jade is actually really good at trolling via posts that leverage Jade's lack of understanding of 0.0. Now caod is exposed as a joke, it isn't as much fun for that type of trolling.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.08 11:17:00 -
[4]
Posting bans on a corp/alliance level is an excellent idea. Also, only allowing directors/CEOs is another way to go.
I support this but I think these restrictions are a little too harsh. I like CAOD, and find some of the trolling to be funny, I'll admit to that. I would love to see which forums are the most viewed, I would expect it to be GD followed closely by CAOD and how can you say such a popular forum needs fixing?
I would love a little bit of cleaning, but if CAOD was just neutral battle reports, I'd zzzz and go look up some pron.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:09:00 -
[5]
Just dont read it. It seems that ccp and the players prefer to keep it as a place for trolls to have their fun so they dont ruin the rest of the forums.
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Reynolds
Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:45:00 -
[6]
Make it worth reading which probably will require large scale banning or posting restrictions. Otherwise might as well delete the whole section and save the mods time
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:28:00 -
[7]
Since there is an actual topic to discuss in this proposal, it's perfectly valid in it's current form.
As for Jade's suggestions - I personally like the requesting to post bit combined with the organisational moderation. Or mods could start banning people again.
yes, this is a topic that continues to raise it's head, but as I have told you in another thread already, every time we raise issues to do with moderation or the forums in general we get told not to. I'm happy to raise this if it gets some support, but don't be surprised if nothing comes of it. ----------------------
My Blog |
Sovereign533
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.08 16:24:00 -
[8]
i like
*Your signature file has been removed for the inclusion of inappropriate language. -- Fallout 3 |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.08 17:53:00 -
[9]
Ban on misuse, ban all accounts from that person on being caught a second time. That and what the OP stated.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Zenethalos
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.08 17:59:00 -
[10]
COAD is no longer worth reading.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:03:00 -
[11]
Would be rude not to support this topic.
Ultimately I think most non CAOD-spamming players recognize that something has gone horribly wrong with the Corporate and Alliance discussion forum and since player-led politics and wars are a key selling point of Eve Online its getting ridiculous that the virtual storefront for this gameplay appeal has been systematically sabotaged and rendered near completely unusable for anybody outside a certain 0.0 powerblock.
Certain players are currently abusing the intentions of that forum by creating disposable alts in an existing 0.0 entity simply to insult other players and post pointless drivel and meaningless spam in increasing volume. This has been going on for months now and it really needs to stop.
In the op NereSky quotes a proposal I made for dealing with this problem and its worth pointing out that I actually tried to gain consensus in this direction during my own six month CSM term but failed due to at least 2-3 of the other CSM's being affilitated with the very people conducting the endless spam campaign.
It may well be that the current CSM will be unable to reach consensus either - but its important that the effort is made and those CSM members who do see the importance of CAOD as a window into the player-led politics of the game take a stand and present strong advise to CCP that this situation really needs to be cleaned up.
Personally-speaking I still believe the "application for posting rights on CAOD/collective bans for organizations abusing that right" is the way to go here since it will immediately disbar those entities that consider CAOD a dumping ground for their one-liners and puerile spam and prevent the endless cycle of disposable alts being used to flame and troll and insult other forum users almost entirely without consequence.
I certainly believe there are many many interesting events, conflicts, campaigns and political struggles going on across the single server of Eve Online and it is close to a tragedy that ALL of this is currently 100% occluded by the destructive spamming and personal-attacks of one particular enity and power-block.
So with that.
Supporting the motion!
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
hodgebobble
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I certainly believe there are many many interesting events, conflicts, campaigns and political struggles going on across the single server of Eve Online and it is close to a tragedy that ALL of this is currently 100% occluded by the destructive spamming and personal-attacks of one particular enity and power-block.
Nobody gives a **** about your lowsec ship-spinning adventures.
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Trygonus
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:54:00 -
[13]
COAD is not supposed to be goonswarm.com
Again... the CSM leader being a goon, and goons goal is the ruin the game and get players to quit. How can we expect this to reach CCP.
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hodgebobble
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Posted - 2009.03.08 20:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trygonus
Again... the CSM leader being a goon, and goons goal is the ruin the game and get players to quit.
[Needs Citation]
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.09 00:12:00 -
[15]
Great.... as if its bad enough to have a bunch of a-holes posting on these boards in one COAD... it yet again happens with a 2nd one.
Seriously people... get a grip on reality... stop acting like monkeys throwing piles of #### at each other.
Either you post for or against... else... STFU And GTFO. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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thesonarnet
The friendly Killers N E M E S I S
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Posted - 2009.03.09 01:36:00 -
[16]
signed, I especially like the restriction to a single or just a couple of representatives.
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Sydian Rie
Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2009.03.09 03:44:00 -
[17]
Great Topic! The deterioration of CAOD has been a big disappointment of mine for awhile. This game is supposed to be for a different class of gamer. A large majority of the threads in that forum are complete crap and a deliberate attempt to sabotage the tools given to us by CCP.
I personally like the idea of Corp/Alliance PR being the ONLY ones doing the posting or banning entire corp/alliances as an alternative. You simply can't tell people to just ignore that particular forum, it's part of the game. That's like telling people to ignore empire space because itls cluttered with noobs.
Either way, I've been playing eve for 4 years now and I have seen the mentality become SEVERELY sophomoric and irrelevant. Please do something about it.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 05:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Goumindong on 09/03/2009 05:48:38 Just because Jade Constantine wants a forum where he can advance her agenda without being laughed at doesn't mean that we should give it to him. Its a disgrace that we are even considering her proposal, she can do it on his own forum if she needs a place where no one will point out all his inadequacies.
We once had a place like the one you're discussing (granted; we had it after Jade was banned for trolling, so she never got to participate in it) and it died a long slow death of irrelevancy as no one posted in it and no one cared about it.
CAOD does not need to die, if it did, nothing would fuel the enmity that makes this game worth playing. Why should i log in if i don't relish shooting my enemies? How will i really despise them without some place to get riled up? Should we all just get along and play nice? No, and we should not all play Jade's game because he has tricked a few people with long posts and words they don't understand.
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:11:00 -
[19]
Goum, there's a difference between fiery discussion and outright trolling. CAOD has slowly descended into the latter. ----------------------
My Blog |
MASSIVEMURDERMACHINE
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:15:00 -
[20]
Unban Jade Constantine. Ban all goonies from CAOD. |
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Zenethalos
Minmatar Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:21:00 -
[21]
Well for starters I think its posts like this one: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1017035 that make people want a better COAD not this constant state of sh*t posts by goons and all the damn alts. 9.5/10 posts are just useless rabble like the above thread. You want a place to forum pew pew thats cool but the lack of constructive threads and responses is getting out of hand.
I also agree don't make COAD Jade C's playground but bring it back to a few years ago with real battle reports and official diplomatic press releases. Not to mention the "Corporate" part of the forums. Now adays some corp decides to take the time to post what they feel is interesting in their world of eve and it just gets trolled by alts in alliances. Some of us actually like to read these updates it brings life to the world of eve for those of us who don't care about goons/ken and the rest of the crap.
The discussion aspect of the forums in my opinion is to bring life and depth to the game and show new/prospectiv players what is going on in the world of eve. And all they see is this useless cr*p about a self destructing nag and small corporate entities being told pretty much they are useless because they are not in a major power block. What does that say about the game?
I dont like the idea of corp/alliance appointed posters. That takes the forum from being a public one to a private one which just doesnt feel right. COAD just needs stronger rules and regulations.
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Kytanos Termek
Caldari Darkstorm Command Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:28:00 -
[22]
/signed
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SodiumCyanide
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:58:00 -
[23]
Community (CSM) is better suited to moderate itself than the moderators as they are closer to the community thus I reject this proposal in favour of the one currently above it that seeks to grant moderation powers to the CSM. I urge everyone to do the same.
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.03.09 07:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SodiumCyanide Community (CSM) is better suited to moderate itself than the moderators as they are closer to the community thus I reject this proposal in favour of the one currently above it that seeks to grant moderation powers to the CSM. I urge everyone to do the same.
the above thread doesn't have anything to do with CSM moderating the forums, it's about raising issues to do with forums without getting a blanket "forums are outside CSM purview" response. ----------------------
My Blog |
SodiumCyanide
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 07:05:00 -
[25]
Edited by: SodiumCyanide on 09/03/2009 07:05:13 Argue semantics all you like. You support your little pet project while the res of us actually try to solve something.
luv NaCN
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NereSky
Gallente Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 07:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: NereSky on 09/03/2009 07:35:49
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 09/03/2009 05:48:38 Just because Jade Constantine wants a forum where he can advance her agenda without being laughed at doesn't mean that we should give it to him. Its a disgrace that we are even considering her proposal, she can do it on his own forum if she needs a place where no one will point out all his inadequacies.
We once had a place like the one you're discussing (granted; we had it after Jade was banned for trolling, so she never got to participate in it) and it died a long slow death of irrelevancy as no one posted in it and no one cared about it.
CAOD does not need to die, if it did, nothing would fuel the enmity that makes this game worth playing. Why should i log in if i don't relish shooting my enemies? How will i really despise them without some place to get riled up? Should we all just get along and play nice? No, and we should not all play Jade's game because he has tricked a few people with long posts and words they don't understand.
The proposal has got nothing to do with individual players but has everything to do with players wanting a cleaner more professional political discussion point with troll posts and flames drastically reduced,
It just so happens Jade typed out some ideas which were actually quite good there were other ideas such as;
by Scagga Laebetrovo
*** Ingame corp interface: Create a spokesperson position that gives a 'can post on CAOD' ability
Additional rules: - Costs 25m to appoint or change a spokesperson - 1 spokesperson per 50 members in corp other than CEO (CEO can always post)
Ok, now for some off the wall ideas:
Other rule for CAOD: - You cannot post on CAOD if you have less than 50m isk in your wallet - 50m isk fine to the poster if get moderated on CAOD - Increased severity or frequency of offenses = bans ***
there are plenty of ideas out there that have been posted all with merits but the end result is a lot of players want/require CAOD to be improved,
As i said this thread is not about individuals but about Corperations and Alliances and having a political forum clean of flames/trolls/spam where Corps/Alliances can have the freedom to post within the rules and not running the risk of their voice being drowned out by hundreds of trolls
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.09 07:56:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 09/03/2009 07:56:41 Erm, correct me if I am wrong, but cannot alt corps just do the same thing? Alt alliances already exist in this game and 25mil/member is meaningless.
All that is needed, is to have better moderation. Just more people to check and delete crappy threads. But that creates a problem in that too much moderation makes COAD as boring to read as SHC's war & Politics secion.
CEO only forums would end up having alt corps in them, thus CEO being a alt. So it does not solve the issue, just transfer it.
COAD just needs better policing, it does not need new laws. --
Billion Isk Mission |
NereSky
Gallente Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 08:02:00 -
[28]
Lord waratron, the idea is 'not' CEO's only but Alliance leaders/CEOs and Diplomats i would suggest at least 5 (depending on how many corps are in that Alliance) for a Alliance maybe 2 or 3 for a corp
This would still allow for a good set of posting however if one person in that entity is warned or banned its not the player thats warned or banned but the entity he/she represents
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 08:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: NereSky
The proposal has got nothing to do with individual players but has everything to do with players wanting a cleaner more professional political discussion point with troll posts and flames drastically reduced,
Say it all you want, that does not make it true. This proposal has everything to do with individual players, and you would know this if you'd bothered to read the thread in question, or look up the history of the person in particular.
Quote:
As i said this thread is not about individuals but about Corperations and Alliances and having a political forum clean of flames/trolls/spam where Corps/Alliances can have the freedom to post within the rules and not running the risk of their voice being drowned out by hundreds of trolls
So instead we drown out their voice with zero posts in a forum that no one reads and no one cares about? We've tried this forum before, it did not work. Lets not do it again and remove the enmity from CAOD that fuels the conflict this game was built around.
As well, when people troll your thread, it goes to the top of the page. You would think that by having your thread trolled you would be grateful for the extra exposure that you were being granted. If no one posts, it gets ignored and falls off the first page and no one reads it again. If you want to not read goon posts, just ignore them. Read the things you want. Certainly the threads in question have proven that such a thing is very possible. I mean, if it weren't you couldn't even have had the thread that sparked this in the first place, right? It would have been trolled into oblivion and all those long winded "non-troll" posts that you are pinning so bad for would never have been written. Maybe the problem is more that people don't want to post long winded "non-troll" posts rather than they think they'll get trolled?
Originally by: Omber Zombie Goum, there's a difference between fiery discussion and outright trolling. CAOD has slowly descended into the latter.
You're right. One of them is more honest. Its the trolling, the trolling is more honest.
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Gallan Dracos
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Posted - 2009.03.09 09:06:00 -
[30]
Supporting the op
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