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Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 05:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is both a ship topic and crime topic, but I like it here better so as not to get swarmed by the elite gang of gankbears.
I believe the hulk should be made considerably more durable considering the amount of training time that is required to fly one. It should take a ship of equivalent training time to solo gank one in high sec. Yes Eve is a dangerous place so there will always be suicide gankers, but why should they be allowed to fly disposable toy ships that anyone can jump into after a weeks training and take down expensive ships that take months of training. CCP should level the playing field a bit in terms of miners vs gankbears and make the gankbears have to train and invest their isk for what they want to do, just like the miners have to. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1407
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 05:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Hulk is a mining ship, not a tanking ship. If you pay attention and don't mine in crowds, it's not hard to keep from dieing. |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 05:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
mxzf wrote:The Hulk is a mining ship, not a tanking ship. If you pay attention and don't mine in crowds, it's not hard to keep from dieing.
Yes I realize that it is a mining ship, but it is silly to believe that a mining ship needs to be a tank free target for everyone with a hair up their ass. As the game has evolved and suicide ganking has become the gameplay for some, ships need to evolve to respond to make it fair. |
Ned Black
Driders
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 05:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:mxzf wrote:The Hulk is a mining ship, not a tanking ship. If you pay attention and don't mine in crowds, it's not hard to keep from dieing. Yes I realize that it is a mining ship, but it is silly to believe that a mining ship needs to be a tank free target for everyone with a hair up their ass. As the game has evolved and suicide ganking has become the gameplay for some, ships need to evolve to respond to make it fair.
Since when have gankers wanted fair... EVER? They dont want fair, they want easy expensive kills... and considering that the hulk is a very expensive wet paper bag for tank it is a prime candidate.
I see one reason to give the Hulk a ++ber tank... and that is the absolute storm of ganker tears that would produce. It would be hillarious when suddenly the gankers would have to pay as much as the hulk was worth to take one down... unlike now when they can get away with it in one or two T1 fit destroyers... |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 06:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Compared to the Covetor, the Hulk doesn't require a lot of extra training and hence shouldn't be alot better. This has more to do with Covetor training time than something else so I guess Hulk could use some work. |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 06:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Compared to the Covetor, the Hulk doesn't require a lot of extra training and hence shouldn't be alot better. This has more to do with Covetor training time than something else so I guess Hulk could use some work.
Yes, I should have said mining barges in general and not just the Hulk. |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 08:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote: I believe the hulk should be made considerably more durable considering the amount of training time that is required to fly one. It should take a ship of equivalent training time to solo gank one in high sec.
Please tell me what can solo gank a hulk - I give you a little hint: A destroyer can't do it unless you literally lower your tank through Expanded Cargoholds and Rigs and even then it needs perfect skills (including rigging skills and AWU to get enough dps - Oh wait, the training time now isn't lower than for a standard hulk?)
Three easy steps to not getting ganked: 1. Fit a tank and add some ECM drones to your bay 2. Watch Local/D-Scan, stay aligned and warp off when something smelling of a gank enters grid 3. Don't mine in 0.5
Oh, you want to mine solo afk in 0.5 with max yield/cargohold? Though luck. |
AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers Persona Non Gratis
19
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Posted - 2012.04.27 08:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Compared to the Covetor, the Hulk doesn't require a lot of extra training and hence shouldn't be alot better. This has more to do with Covetor training time than something else so I guess Hulk could use some work.
Main difference is:
Hulk = 320M, insurance payout 20M = 300M loss upon gank Covetor = 30M with insurance, payout 20M = 10M loss upon gank
When in hisec, both can fend rats easily. Therefore i see absolutely no point in being a gank target in hulk these days of expencive hulks. Covetor is just fine, doesnt die to destroyers and its hardly juicy target for anything bigger then that... so is someone wants to "tornado" gank me - be my guest, ill fit another for you in 5 minutes :)
In null when triple BS spawn appears - covetor pops before given opportunity to warp away, so hulk is necessary.
Regards
I. |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 08:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:Quote: I believe the hulk should be made considerably more durable considering the amount of training time that is required to fly one. It should take a ship of equivalent training time to solo gank one in high sec.
Please tell me what can solo gank a hulk - I give you a little hint: A destroyer can't do it unless you literally lower your tank through Expanded Cargoholds and Rigs and even then it needs perfect skills (including rigging skills and AWU to get enough dps - Oh wait, the training time now isn't lower than for a standard hulk?) Three easy steps to not getting ganked: 1. Fit a tank and add some ECM drones to your bay 2. Watch Local/D-Scan, stay aligned and warp off when something smelling of a gank enters grid 3. Don't mine in 0.5 Oh, you want to mine solo afk in 0.5 with max yield/cargohold? Though luck.
I don't mine at all (though my husband does on occassion), but I hate gankbears attacking miners in our alliance. And you are wrong, catalysts and thrashers constantly solo gank hulks. Regardless if I mine or not I stand by my original post, mining barges should not be fodder for cheap ships that take no skill to fly, it should take a ship of equivalent training time-cost to solo gank. |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 08:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
As I said before, there is no possible way to destroy a tanked Hulk solo in a Catalyst (and much less in a Thrasher), even with max fittings - We're talking about a fit you need AWU V for here. It isn't even possible for a single Tornado, unless he gets lucky, you are in 0.5 and even then he needs max skills - BC V, max gunnery support and AWU V.
Quote: And you are wrong, catalysts and thrashers constantly solo gank hulks. Regardless if I mine or not I stand by my original post, mining barges should not be fodder for cheap ships that take no skill to fly, it should take a ship of equivalent training time-cost to solo gank.
It does. I explained it to you and if you still think otherwise point us some nice killmails where a destroyer solo kills a Hulk that isn't flying a complete failfit. |
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TWHC Assistant
20
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
There have been many discussions about it before. What stands out, and it appears to be the only issue, is that the mining ships posses too little powergrid these days.
Newer industrial ships like the Noctis (250 PG) and Primea (175PG) have noticeably more powergrid than a Hulk (35PG). T2 transporters like the Mastodon and Bustard can easily be shield-tanked to about 50k eHP only by using their mid-slots, though they can go higher of course.
Neither the Noctis nor the Primea are particularly designed to operate in "deep space" as it is the case with the Hulk (see ship descriptions). The T2 transporters, which are designed for "deep space" and share a large cargo hold with the Hulk, do not have powergrid issues (200+ PG) either. Btw, it is not clear what exactly this "deep space" is, because no space is safe and one can be in a war anywhere.
Edit: I forgot, there is another issue. The training time for going from a T1 Covetor to a T2 Hulk is far too short. |
Prekaz
The Gentlemen's Corporation
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 14:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:
I believe the hulk should be made considerably more durable considering the amount of training time that is required to fly one.
...what?
They don't really take that long to train for, and even if they did, what does that have to do with anything? |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 14:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:There have been many discussions about it before. What stands out, and it appears to be the only issue, is that the mining ships posses too little powergrid these days.
Newer industrial ships like the Noctis (250 PG) and Primea (175PG) have noticeably more powergrid than a Hulk (35PG). T2 transporters like the Mastodon and Bustard can easily be shield-tanked to about 50k eHP only by using their mid-slots, though they can go higher of course.
Neither the Noctis nor the Primea are particularly designed to operate in "deep space" as it is the case with the Hulk (see ship descriptions). The T2 transporters, which are designed for "deep space" and share a large cargo hold with the Hulk, do not have powergrid issues (200+ PG) either. Btw, it is not clear what exactly this "deep space" is, because no space is safe and one can be in a war anywhere.
Edit: I forgot, there is another issue. The training time for going from a T1 Covetor to a T2 Hulk is far too short.
CPU is also a serious issue on the Mackinaw and the Skiff.
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Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 15:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
The hulk does NOT need more tank! The ship is built for ONE thing and ONE thing only. Mining. When you have a specialty ship that's built to do something it SUCKS at everything else. That's the reason they call it a SPECIALIZED ship. The description states that it is able to handle the rigors of deep space and it truly can. You can easily tank a hulk to handle low sec rats. The hulk is in NO way a pvp ship nor should it be. Ever.
Vexx |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 15:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Immortis Vexx wrote:The hulk does NOT need more tank! The ship is built for ONE thing and ONE thing only. Mining. When you have a specialty ship that's built to do something it SUCKS at everything else. That's the reason they call it a SPECIALIZED ship. The description states that it is able to handle the rigors of deep space and it truly can. You can easily tank a hulk to handle low sec rats. The hulk is in NO way a pvp ship nor should it be. Ever.
Vexx
The only flaw in your arguement is that is a huge pvp target, so its a pvp ship whether we like it or not. I just basically find it to be stupid that a 310 million isk ship can be ganked by a 1.7 million isk ship in high sec. |
Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
132
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 15:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
A new and fresh idea! |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 15:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:A new and fresh idea!
Sometimes things need to be said enough times to get CCP to listen. Its better than just posting sarcasm to make yourself look witty. |
Warpshade
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think the Macks defo have fitting issues vs slots, but the Hulk seems fine imho. Its a Mining ship not a military vessel, the cost imo is associated with its mining ability, not its tanking.
[Hulk, SafeMiner] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Survey Scanner II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
I gets 27,835 EHP uniform damage, with my skills in EFT with that fit. That to me seems a pretty good EHP and thats without Orca bonuses!
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Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Immortis Vexx wrote:The hulk does NOT need more tank! The ship is built for ONE thing and ONE thing only. Mining. When you have a specialty ship that's built to do something it SUCKS at everything else. That's the reason they call it a SPECIALIZED ship. The description states that it is able to handle the rigors of deep space and it truly can. You can easily tank a hulk to handle low sec rats. The hulk is in NO way a pvp ship nor should it be. Ever.
Vexx The only flaw in your arguement is that is a huge pvp target, so its a pvp ship whether we like it or not. I just basically find it to be stupid that a 310 million isk ship can be ganked by a 1.7 million isk ship in high sec.
Again the difference is that one is an industrial and the other is made for war. Lets look at this another way...
In this scenario there are two people; one with a hand gun, the other with an axe. If those two people were to get in a fight, the probable winner will be the person with the handgun (assuming the gun is loaded and able to fire). Now suppose that the two are asked to chop down some trees. This scenario presents a whole ton of challenges for the person with the gun (I've never actually shot a tree with a gun but I'd imagine that its not very effective) but the axe user will gleefully hack away at said trees.
Can the hulk be used for killing? Yes, it can hold a full complement of medium and light drones. The effectiveness is quite limited though, you can't expect to take a hulk on a battlefield and expect to do well. It simply isn't made to put up with PVP damage for very long. I will give you one other example that maybe isn't so half baked.
This time we have a car vs a dood with a hammer. The car outweighs the dood by several times (hopefully) and costs 1000x more than a hammer does. However, if the dood takes the hammer and starts bashing pieces of the motor, what is going to happen? Car = no more worky if the dood keeps hitting. The reason this happens is because the car wasn't made to be hit by a hammer. The same way a hulk isn't REALLY made to be shot by explosive rounds.
Wow, I think the second example is worse than the first but I feel that both are applicable. It is easier to break something than it is to build it to withstand punishment; and impossible to withstand punishment from every possible type of attack.
Vexx
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Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quote: The only flaw in your arguement is that is a huge pvp target, so its a pvp ship whether we like it or not. I just basically find it to be stupid that a 310 million isk ship can be ganked by a 1.7 million isk ship in high sec.
Only that it can't. Now get us some killmails of non-failfit Hulks getting ganked by solo destroyers or stop lying |
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Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think what I like most about these threads are the amount of tears from the PvP'rs and the Gankers as soon as the Industrial types (and even from some that aren't) start asking for a little more defense on their ships!
Give the Hulk more PG, more CPU, more tank!
Let the PvP / Ganker Tears flow. HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression -á- The only way to go! |
TWHC Assistant
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Warpshade wrote:I think the Macks defo have fitting issues vs slots, but the Hulk seems fine imho. Its a Mining ship not a military vessel, the cost imo is associated with its mining ability, not its tanking.
[Hulk, SafeMiner] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Survey Scanner II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
I gets 27,835 EHP uniform damage, with my skills in EFT with that fit. That to me seems a pretty good EHP and thats without Orca bonuses!
I get the same eHP on an Occator, without fitting a DCU II, without the need for Power Core II but with cargo rigs and 7 Cargo Expander IIs, which is basically a non-PvP fit and maxed for cargo space.
If you actually meant what you say, then you would not be arguing against bringing mining ships in line with the rest of the industrials, but you would demand to nerf transport ships and other ships to make them more gankable. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
863
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hulks have fine EHP.
The problem people have is that it only takes 2-3 destroyers to kill one, right? A Thrasher can only alpha 1800 HP at best, with max skills and T2 equipment -- which most of them do not have. That means that if three destroyers fire two volleys at a Hulk, that is 1800*3*2 = 10800 HP damage.
I'm going to go ahead and grab the first sui-ganked Hulk fit I find on eve-kill:
Quote:[Hulk, Max Yield FTW]
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Survey Scanner II Small C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II [Empty Med slot]
Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Medium Cargohold Optimization I Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Mining Drone II x5 Warrior II x5
So, it has some "tank". According to Pyfa, at max skills that is 10700 EHP. The Thrashers will just about kill it. Pro tip for miners who don't know how tank works: active tanks do not help you against alpha strikes at all, and a passive tank (that regenerates your HP while also having a sizable buffer) is all around better for being in a belt for long periods of time. With that in mind, let's tank a Hulk:
Quote:[Hulk, Can't Gank This!]
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I ML-3 Amphilotite Mining Probe Small Shield Extender II
Damage Control II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Mining Drone II x5 Warrior II x5
This fit has 22050 EHP... more than twice the previous one. It also has 65.8 HP/s shield regeneration, compared to a 72 HP/s total active tank on the other fit (not a significant drop). This means that this Hulk requires 11 or more Thrashers, or 2 or more Tornados to gank. That means you either have to have more than 10 people working together just to gank defenseless Hulks, or you have to spend almost 200 million ISK in Tornados to get two people to do it. If I were a ganker, I would just give up on that Hulk, and go kill the untanked one right next to it.
Of course, someone will pop in and yell "but you're sacrificing mining yield!" All ships have to make tradeoffs in fittings. My Rifter can't do 150 DPS, because if it did it would pop immediately upon someone sneezing at it. Similarly, the yield of this hulk drops from 31.775 m3/s with the old fit, to... 29.64 m3/s with the tanky one.
That is a 6.7% drop guys! Profits are going to fall so hard! The resulting loss of ISK for Veldspar mining would be 400 ISK/second, rounding up. That means that in 208 hours of mining you will have incurred as many losses from tanking your Hulk to equal the price of a new Hulk.
So, risk analysis time. 208 hours, assuming 7 hours mining per day, is almost a month of play. If you AFK mine veldspar 7 hours a day in an untanked Hulk for a month... how many times are you going to get ganked? If it's less than 1, you should just mine in an untanked Hulk. If it's 1, you will be breaking even by tanking your Hulk. If it's more than 1, tank your damn Hulk.
PS: OP, for how much you want to avoid trolls, you aren't helping matters by calling suigankers "gankbears".
PPS: I don't mine myself, so I don't know the market for minerals, but feel free to venture your own cost analysis of how a 6.7% drop in yield is not acceptable for not losing Hulks left and right.
What does a Hulk need? More agility. A triple-1600-plated Abaddon aligns a couple of seconds faster than a Hulk without any armor mods does, and the Abaddon is almost 3x as massive as the Hulk. That's just embarassing. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Hulks have fine EHP... Lots of other stuff...
What does a Hulk need? More agility. A triple-1600-plated Abaddon aligns a couple of seconds faster than a Hulk without any armor mods does, and the Abaddon is almost 3x as massive as the Hulk. That's just embarassing.
Nice post! Good to see that someone actually took the time to work through the m3 analysis. There you have it folks. I built a similar setup in EveHQ and got pretty much the same data. Mining yield was a bit lower w/o the 2nd MLU though; 4200 vs 4600 with 2. Still, if you live in a high risk area, you better come prepped. As far as tradeoffs, Petrus is 100% correct, with combat ships you either tank or gank; its like a sliderbar that moves between the two extremes.
Vexx |
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
59
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
[Rokh, Miner] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I Large Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II Miner II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Needs a 2% CPU Implant, but that's 110k Ehp at max skills. Please, feel free to mine in it. That's a ship designed for tanking, mining. If you'd prefer to fit a mining ship for tanking, as suggested above, the numbers are already there. If you want something gankproof, well, here you go.
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illy velo
Production N Destruction INC. The Last Chancers.
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Another trick, fit an Orca in system with resistance and or shield boost gang links. Basically just treat hisec mining like you would nullsec, losec or 0.0 mining. Watch dscan, be aligned, don't go clean your house, take a shower while doing it and you are fine. |
TWHC Assistant
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Hulks have fine EHP. ... What does a Hulk need? More agility. A triple-1600-plated Abaddon aligns a couple of seconds faster than a Hulk without any armor mods does, and the Abaddon is almost 3x as massive as the Hulk. That's just embarassing. By your logic does a Hulk have a fine align time, too:
[Hulk, Hulk aligns]
Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Small Shield Extender II
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5
It aligns in <10s. You have no point there. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
865
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Hulks have fine EHP. ... What does a Hulk need? More agility. A triple-1600-plated Abaddon aligns a couple of seconds faster than a Hulk without any armor mods does, and the Abaddon is almost 3x as massive as the Hulk. That's just embarassing. By your logic does a Hulk have a fine align time, too: [Hulk, Hulk aligns] Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Small Shield Extender II Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5 It aligns in <10s. You have no point there.
The agility is to encourage and make mining in places other than hisec belts feasible for those who are actually at their computer and paying attention. 10 seconds is not enough to get away from much of anything in lowsec/nullsec. A Hulk that's been caught doesn't have any more chance of surviving than a Viator or an Occator that was caught. The tank exists to keep it safe in hisec. The speed/agility/cloak/other such mobility features exist to facilitate travel and safety elsewhere. The Hulk is lacking in mobility, not tank. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
TWHC Assistant
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:The agility is to encourage and make mining in places other than hisec belts feasible for those who are actually at their computer and paying attention. 10 seconds is not enough to get away from much of anything in lowsec/nullsec. A Hulk that's been caught doesn't have any more chance of surviving than a Viator or an Occator that was caught. The tank exists to keep it safe in hisec. The speed/agility/cloak/other such mobility features exist to facilitate travel and safety elsewhere. The Hulk is lacking in mobility, not tank. Again, it is not a point. When you say the eHP is fine by fitting a ship for max eHP then you cannot argue that it lacks agility when you can fit it to have max. agility.
Or let me put it another way. When 10 seconds is not enough to get away with a Hulk, then why is 14s enough for an Abaddon all while one can lock onto an Abaddon faster than one can lock onto a Hulk? ... |
Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: ....Stuff.... Again, it is not a point. When you say the eHP is fine by fitting a ship for max eHP then you cannot argue that it lacks agility when you can fit it to have max. agility. Or let me put it another way. When 10 seconds is not enough to get away with a Hulk, then why is 14s enough for an Abaddon all while one can lock onto an Abaddon faster than one can lock onto a Hulk? ...
Do you have any idea how the game mechanics work? NONE of the modules that Petrus suggested has any impact on the agility of the ship. NONE. Zero. Zip. Zilch.
What he said was that even with a fully tanked abba with 1600mm plates (that increase overall mass) can align faster than a mining boat. The issue with hulks is not their lock time, nor their align time (though a boost to that would be good as was explained before). The issue is that people expect the lowly hulk to tank like a damned titan. A few people have posted solid hulk fits that are not un-gankable but really expensive to gank. Yes, you lose a bit of mining yield, yes you won't have as much cargo. What you are asking for is a "perfect" fit which simply does not exist and should not exist.
You cannot have everything in one bag. The world does not work like that. Sorry.
Vexx |
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