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Author	Reply to Topic \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
TheOnlyProphet Amarr Altus Provisio	Posted - 2009.03.08 20:43:00 - [31] - Quote "The Sisters versions will also stick around, and get a scan strength bonus as durations for all launchers are now 10 seconds." "The Astrometric Triangulation skill is now called Astrometric Acquisition and gives a scan time bonus." Does this mean it decreases the 10 second duration?
Enthral	Posted - 2009.03.08 20:49:00 - [32] - Quote I haven't tried scanning down ships on SiSi yet, but I have tried scanning down sites. First impression is that this is Win, with some caveats. The good news is, scanning is no longer a matter of hoping you have your probes placed right and hitting "scan" over and over praying for a hit. You are active for the entire process, moving probes around and refining the pattern until you find what you're looking for. It is no longer this life sucking annoyance. The bad news is, the positioning arrows are a bit of a pain. You're constantly trying to get your view to show you the axis you're trying to adjust. Often, you "miss" the arrows and end up adjusting the scan range instead of moving the probes. In time, I'm sure we'll get used to moving probes around. I'm sure the GUI will slowly be improved as feedback comes in as well. All in all, the new scanning system is a vast improvement over the old one. The randomness is gone, and the system has a more fun feel to it. -Enthral
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:01:00 - [33] - Quote I'm surprised that the System Scanner is being killed by this - it seems easy enough to make it stay relevant. It takes next to no fitting, so just have it come up with a complete and reliable list of what scannables are in system - "Found: 2 wormholes, 3 belts, 1 ship". Full list, but with minimal or no range information. If anyone wants to invest the token amount of POS fitting into it to make it run, that'd seem to be a natural task for it to do, and perfectly compatible with the new system. That said, this is still a great improvement from the looks of it, and I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:08:00 - [34] - Quote Originally by: TheOnlyProphet Does this mean it decreases the 10 second duration? Yes. You can go down to like 2 seconds or something. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
The Snowman Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:17:00 - [35] - Quote really, in the entire universe there is no proper guide to scanning, just a single story?...yea right. I was hoping for a better explanation, deviation for example.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:35:00 - [36] - Quote This devBlog is made of win. \o/ I can't wait to do some probing the new way.
Dirty Python	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:44:00 - [37] - Quote Finally! In character dev blogs. here is another month of sub! btw. as a complete nub to scanning (past and present), I cant stress the importance of character skill training. I kept wrestling with finding things with only astrometrics 1 and nothing else, and it took a whole day to get the feel of how deviation scales according to the actual sphere graphics!
Hya Bam Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:50:00 - [38] - Quote Originally by: Treelox Nice read Greyscale. I look forward to this new system on TQ. I do have one question though, since there seems to be a HUGE ommision from the blog. What if any changes to the astrometrics bonuses that higher levels of the Cov-Ops skill, get you when flying a Cov-Ops frig? Is it still going to be a duration modifier? or will this also get changed to strength modifier? Originally by: SirSpectre What about covert ops scan time bonus? Does this become scan strength now too? I would like to know this as well. Oh, and excellent dev blog! Entertaining and informantive. --- "All your boot.ini are belong to us." -CCP
TheOnlyProphet Amarr Altus Provisio	Posted - 2009.03.08 22:00:00 - [39] - Quote Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: TheOnlyProphet Does this mean it decreases the 10 second duration? Yes. You can go down to like 2 seconds or something. Nice. Good Good stuff.
Fractal Eye Gallente Inter-Galactic Research Of Knowledge Dark Cadre	Posted - 2009.03.08 22:26:00 - [40] - Quote Edited by: Fractal Eye on 08/03/2009 22:32:46 Edited by: Fractal Eye on 08/03/2009 22:29:55 So far (from my trips into sisi) the cov ops bonus is changed to scan strength instead of duration. +10% per level iirc. I'm downloading today's patch (the daily sisi patch i like to call it), so they might have changed it, but it's probably still affecting scan strength. edit: just finished installing new patch and my helios does give +10% to scan strength per covert ops skill level. Also would like to say I love the new scanning system also Just need to practice with the probe widgets now...) 2nd edit: I suck as spelling and noticing red dotted underscores...

Josehpine	Posted - 2009.03.08 22:45:00 - [41] - Quote I noticed a strange, imo bug in the scanning system, tho it may be intended i scanned down a site in wh space and got a 100% hit. When i warped there, there was nothing, i scanned again and then the hit was 16k km away so i warped there, again nothing, so i narrowed down the probes and scanned again (they werent at .25 AU for the first hits) and then i got the right hit. So even if you get a 100% hit with 4 probes that doesnt mean you found it, it has still deviation. IMO that should be changed so that when you get 100% hit you really have found it
Che Biko Polytechnique Gallenteenne	Posted - 2009.03.08 22:48:00 - [42] - Quote Judging from the pictures, I suppose it's still a bad idea to have a probe within scanning range of another probe
Glassback Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.03.08 22:58:00 - [43] - Quote Originally by: Che Biko Judging from the pictures, I suppose it's still a bad idea to have a probe within scanning range of another probe No, the exact opposite.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:06:00 - [44] - Quote I still think that it's a bit too easy to find sites, but after all I am an "hardcore element". :-) Go for it, it has been a good job, despite the kinks that should be worked out when it hits TQ.
Bethulsunamen Amarr Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:19:00 - [45] - Quote Originally by: Space Wanderer I still think that it's a bit too easy to find sites, but after all I am an "hardcore element". :-) Go for it, it has been a good job, despite the kinks that should be worked out when it hits TQ. Well, they could remove the auto-warp of the probes, or the visual spheres showing their range on the map. But it wouldnt really make it any harder, it would just make it take longer as you'd have to warp manually, create safespots, warp back, drop a probe, pick up a calculator and work out the ranges, if they overlap etc.. Imo a visual interface isnt making it too easy, it's just removing the stoneage methods of doing it in the past. Stuff shouldnt be extra annoying just for the sake of being annoying. If things can be simplified in terms of displaying ranges and such, they should.
Rhohan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:25:00 - [46] - Quote Edited by: Rhohan on 08/03/2009 23:26:12 A little bit of feedback. So far the syestem is very good, except for one minor issue so far. It would be nice if you could select to not change the ranges of the probes thru the system map, but only the Scanner interface. A many times while zoomed in to rotate view or something, I end up changing the range of one of my probes. The more complex the layout of your probes, the more difficult this is to correct. -Thanks
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:39:00 - [47] - Quote The problem I have with the new system is I'm betting it's gonna get old very fast. The old system had you waiting around for a result didn't require much action or thought. The new system has you actively fiddling with little arrows for a lot less time but still doesn't require much thought. In fact it requires barely any thought after you've done it a few times as there is barely any difference between sites anywhere in eve. Probing is pretty much reduced to a case of the first part of that blog repeated again and again and again and again like some sort of factory worker and after you've done the exact same thing a few hundred times all the fun has gone and your left with a bunch of fiddly little arrows. Imo if you wanted to change it you should have made scanning require some thought, made ppl think about the process they are going through. Possibly added things similar to the stuff in the wormhole devblog where emissions from the sun could effect your ship or something like that. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.03.09 01:05:00 - [48] - Quote Quote: This structure doesn't fit into the new quadrilateration system as it's only one location. While there are ways we could make it work, a check on TQ suggests that it's very rarely used so we decided the coding time for overhauling it would be better used making the rest of the system more awesome. Lets analyze this for a second. 1. Only people in the corp of the pos in question can use it. 1.1 Which requires sov 2 to even online the bugger. 2. Only people in said corp with the proper roles can use it. 3. Only people in said corp with said roles and Anchoring 5 and starbase defense(aka posgunner) can use it. What? No wonder nobody uses the damn things. They are uber hard to use. How about you make it so anyone with the starbase password and/or access can actually use it. Then people would use it like mad. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Aeleva Caldari Hegemonic Core	Posted - 2009.03.09 01:58:00 - [49] - Quote Liking the new scanning, after reading the blog it all made sense and ive managed to locate everything ive wanted. However no wormholes yet, what is the best way to filter on them? As its a huge pain spending ages scanning something down just to find its a serpentis/npc site. (not that it wouldnt be awesome on TQ though)
wert668	Posted - 2009.03.09 03:37:00 - [50] - Quote King is dead, long live for King!

Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.03.09 06:28:00 - [51] - Quote Originally by: Smoke Adian Cool stuff... reminds me of dropping sonobuoy's from my Seahawk to triangulate in Dangerous Waters. :) Another nerd! Praise the heavens, I thought I was the only one ^^ As to answer a fair bit of questions: Sites spawn anywhere in the system, no longer locked to 4 AU around a planet. Both Sisters launchers have a +5% strength bonus. Cov Ops cycle bonus becomes a strength bonus. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die.
Daracon	Posted - 2009.03.09 08:41:00 - [52] - Quote Heres a little info for everyone, i've spent about 6 hours + on the new system now. As you use the probe positioning boxes you gradually get faster at doing it, the only issues i had is when grabbing the probe positioning boxes is when you have lots of probes out close together and your working fast, you grab the probe range circle a lot, i suggest that this adjustment method is removed since i always use the scanner window to change the range as i acctually know what im changing it too. Next people keep complaning about dealing with the arrows on the boxes when moving them, THIS IS FOR ALL TO NOTE, you can grab the boxes themselfs and freely move them on the axis you are holding them which leaves the arrows for the more fiddly adjustments when you need to perfect your persitions. And lastly for now, the only other issue i've had was in wormhole space were i spent all my time, EVERYTHING other than planets and moons is a cosmic signature, this becomes a serious issue. When setting up several probes to triangulate the entire system i was in i had upwards of 26 signatures (you will see when you try). This causes problems as your scanning as you can confuse other close by signatures and start following them instead of the first one you were scanning, you can endup running after several sigs or losing all of them.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Eclats de verre	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:07:00 - [53] - Quote You should not shrink images like that, it's ugly. Please leave them in their natural size. Other than that, great blog! PS : we do want to know the end! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:21:00 - [54] - Quote Looking pretty awesome, and the interface has improved a lot since the first versions on sisi -- good job, guys. This is easily my favorite part of this next expansion, making scanning into something that requires a bit of skill again. And it's fun, to boot.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:36:00 - [55] - Quote Originally by: Bethulsunamen Well, they could remove the auto-warp of the probes, or the visual spheres showing their range on the map. But it wouldnt really make it any harder, it would just make it take longer as you'd have to warp manually, create safespots, warp back, drop a probe, pick up a calculator and work out the ranges, if they overlap etc.. Imo a visual interface isnt making it too easy, it's just removing the stoneage methods of doing it in the past. Stuff shouldnt be extra annoying just for the sake of being annoying. If things can be simplified in terms of displaying ranges and such, they should. I agree with you here, making it more difficult just giving you a bad interface, is bad design. However they could have made it more difficult just increasing a bit more the deviation. Not the maximum deviation, mind you, there are math reasons why it can't be increased from what it is now. But the decay of deviation with sig str might be made much harsher without any problem.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2009.03.09 09:54:00 - [56] - Quote \o/ can also reconnect to probes if you disconnect, jump out or whatever. The end for macro ratters ... /me Dances.. do the boogy www.garia.net

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2009.03.09 10:00:00 - [57] - Quote By the way, the onboard scanner is still functioning fine too, just forgot to mention it in the blog. Originally by: Artimis Scout Can you launch Core probes out of Expanded Probe Launchers or just the core launcher? Yes. Expanded launcher does everything in one package. Originally by: Minsc As a possible recoding of the system scanner array, why not consider making it work like the new probing system. With regards to the scanning array, we did have ways we could make it work, and we are fully aware that part of the reason it's not widely used is that the user experience is not at all optimized - the reason we decided to retire it is mainly just down to the fact that the time spent upgrading it would be time not fixing defects in the core system, and we decided that we'd rather go for polish over reimplementing/upgrading functionality used by very small numbers of players. Originally by: Treelox What if any changes to the astrometrics bonuses that higher levels of the Cov-Ops skill, get you when flying a Cov-Ops frig? Is it still going to be a duration modifier? or will this also get changed to strength modifier? Yes, I should've mentioned this Covert Ops ships and the astrometrics frigates both get strength improvement bonuses of 5% and 10% respectively. Originally by: Iridescent Moon "The Sisters versions will also stick around, and get a scan strength bonus as durations for all launchers are now 10 seconds." Last time I checked the Sister's Core launcher did not have a strength bonus. The Sister's Recon launcher is useless on TQ now. It is just a named verson of the recon launcher. Are you going to keep the Sister's Core launcher as a worthless item or will you give it a Strength bonus so it might see some use? The strength bonus was implemented for the Core launcher on SiSi a few days after we did it on the Expanded one. Originally by: FireFoxx80 Oi, nothing wrong with an Astra. Some of my best friends are Astras. Originally by: iudex 1. Will it be easier or harder to probe missionrunners in mission deadspace with the new combat scanning system ? That is finding a battleship in a mission deadspace pocket that stays there for 10-50 minutes. 2. Will a) the sig radius b) the sensor strenght of the missionrunner ship or c) the circimstance that the missionrunner ships uses drones play a role with the new probing system ? 1) Depends how good you are with the system I suspect 2) Sig radius and sensor strength both still play a part. I don't think drones are as significant as they used to be. Originally by: Jowen Datloran Are exploration sites still within 4 AU of a planet or can they now spawn all over the system? We've got a bit more freedom over distribution radii now. Originally by: Serenity Steele So my only feedback would be add the "Show probe map" button onto the actual scanning interface, since it's not obvious to the user they need to go to the map and toggle. http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/devblog/img/image02-greyscale.jpg Originally by: TheOnlyProphet "The Sisters versions will also stick around, and get a scan strength bonus as durations for all launchers are now 10 seconds." "The Astrometric Triangulation skill is now called Astrometric Acquisition and gives a scan time bonus." Does this mean it decreases the 10 second duration? Yes. Originally by: Josehpine I noticed a strange, imo bug in the scanning system, tho it may be intended i scanned down a site in wh space and got a 100% hit. When i warped there, there was nothing, i scanned again and then the hit was 16k km away so i warped there, again nothing, so i narrowed down the probes and scanned again (they werent at .25 AU for the first hits) and then i got the right hit. So even if you get a 100% hit with 4 probes that doesnt mean you found it, it has still deviation. IMO that should be changed so that when you get 100% hit you really have found it Yes, this is a bug we'll fix soon

Karim alRashid Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.09 10:03:00 - [58] - Quote Edited by: Karim alRashid on 09/03/2009 10:05:22 Quote: The Astrometric Triangulation skill is now called Astrometric Acquisition and gives a scan time bonus. That's one month of training (rank 5 skill) wasted. Also, exploration with a unbonused ship and low skills is WAY TOO EASY. With a non-specialized character/equipment I can find 99% of the signatures I can find with a specialized char in a rigged covops. All these skill points wasted, unless the potential rewards and/or frequency of the remaining 1% are in the same ratio 99:1. At least it requires some player skill (no SPs, mind you) to find sites in w-space. No doubt CCP will DUMB IT DOWN too, more happy clueless sheep == more monnies. -- Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.03.09 10:35:00 - [59] - Quote Originally by: iudex 1. Will it be easier or harder to probe missionrunners in mission deadspace with the new combat scanning system ? That is finding a battleship in a mission deadspace pocket that stays there for 10-50 minutes. It was easy before and it is easy now. Just different. Deadspace protection is gone, but it in general takes more time to probe a ship. If the prober is not hunting a specific ship but used to just drop a spook in a mission hub, this is probably to require him a bit more time. Otherwise it's probably the same. In some situations (big ship, expert covop prober that is capable to narrow your location "by hand" using the directional scanner) it might be easier, so stay on your guard. Quote: 2. Will a) the sig radius b) the sensor strenght of the missionrunner ship or c) the circimstance that the missionrunner ships uses drones play a role with the new probing system ? a) and b) still hold. A small ship overloaded with ECCM might possibly be unscannable (I still have to do the exact calculations), or take more time to scan. c) varies. Probably will be less effective than before, but there are some situations in which will still be useful.
The Snowman Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.09 10:54:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Greyscale. I'm onto you! I know where you got scanning sound effect from, I know the film.. Im just collating evidence

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a check on TQ suggests that it's very rarely used