|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 11:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Posting to confirm that this is indeed a bug and we are looking into the cause of it now. More information to follow. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 12:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Unrelated CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
212
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Potrondal Morrison wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Schalac wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Posting to confirm that this is indeed a bug and we are looking into the cause of it now. More information to follow. I posted a petition over a week ago now about concord warnings not showing up when you were about to unknowingly commit a crime. Still didn't recieve a message or anything on it, maybe you guys need to check your logs a little faster. Perhaps a bug report would have been more effective than a petition. A bug report wont get your sec status back up, its already been confirmed a bug, CCP should reimburse the status drop.
Quite correct that a bug report would be the way to get this info to development. Petitions go to GMs.
Notwithstanding that the issue you are describing and this issue are separate, as this issue has never arisen in the game before now (nor could it have, really, without a crazy chain of coincidence happening). The Crimewatch system has never been stressed with this many edge cases and mitigating factors before and we will endeavour to react quickly in identifying and resolving issues as they arise. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
213
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 16:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xython wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Potrondal Morrison wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Schalac wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Posting to confirm that this is indeed a bug and we are looking into the cause of it now. More information to follow. I posted a petition over a week ago now about concord warnings not showing up when you were about to unknowingly commit a crime. Still didn't recieve a message or anything on it, maybe you guys need to check your logs a little faster. Perhaps a bug report would have been more effective than a petition. A bug report wont get your sec status back up, its already been confirmed a bug, CCP should reimburse the status drop. Quite correct that a bug report would be the way to get this info to development. Petitions go to GMs. Notwithstanding that the issue you are describing and this issue are separate, as this issue has never arisen in the game before now (nor could it have, really, without a crazy chain of coincidence happening). The Crimewatch system has never been stressed with this many edge cases and mitigating factors before and we will endeavour to react quickly in identifying and resolving issues as they arise. Can you give us any details on this bug, for avoiding any appearance of us exploiting it? We wish to make the players in Jita suffer for their sins, but wish to do so honorably and within the EULA and TOS.
Well, it's not exploitable firstly, so no trouble there. I don't want to go into the details of the reproduction cases though in case some cunning person proves me wrong and finds a way to exploit it! Fair warning folks - details of this should be sent to us in bug reports and any appearing in this thread or others will be deleted. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
216
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:I'm very happy to hear this is a bug, and not a case of "The Logs, they show nothing." :)
Annoying as it may be, I fully understand how these issues could have arisin.. Stress Tests on SiSi take place in null, So I doubt there has been nearly as much testing on TiDI and it's interactions with Crimewatch/Concord/etc.
Might be worth, in the future, moving stress tests alternating between Null, Low, and Highsec, to help detect any future issues.
There has been plenty of testing, but replicating this particular scenario (which would be best described as an edge case) and then finding the defect (also an edge case) while also replicating all other possible edge cases would be a massive waste of time and resources and frankly almost impossible to do. No-one tests like that because of the wasteful nature of the testing, so you must account for the fact that edge cases arise, and if they are severe enough they get fixed at a high priority. The chance of finding this bug would be the loose equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack which only appears when you are with three friends all performing an unrehearsed dance routine in a particular order.
When you say stress testing, I believe you are referring to mass testing, which only accounts for a tiny portion of our QA efforts and needs to cover a wide variety of topics each time - usually newer ones. For proper stress testing we use different techniques but none would have the individual manpower capable of finding a defect like this with any degree of confidence to make it worthwhile. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:
There has been plenty of testing, but replicating this particular scenario (which would be best described as an edge case) and then finding the defect (also an edge case) while also replicating all other possible edge cases would be a massive waste of time and resources and frankly almost impossible to do.
Pretty sure you've had plenty of notice that this particular edge case was coming. I'm also pretty sure that you should have realized this particular edge case would have a major impact on the game. I have to ask myself then, why was this particular edge case not thoroughly tested before it was too late? I have my suspicions as to why, but I don't need any more of my posts deleted today so I'll just keep them to myself. Mr Epeen
You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
The issue should now be fixed, but please keep reports/petitions/BRs coming if things go awry again.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time. How would a tiny scale "2000 character lag-fest in jita" even work? Can you artificially stress the server to that kind of extent?
Yes we can automate that kind of scale, but it wouldn't be representative or controllable enough to find this issue. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
225
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:
You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time.
How much of a waste of time is it going to be when all the petitions for reimbursement of ships because you failed to see the inevitable come rolling in? Better to fix a problem before it happens. Less manpower wasted. Mr Epeen
To paraphrase one of my favourite films: you're out of your element. I could take a development team and spend a year manually testing all possible permutations of the relationship two systems could have with each other and still not clear 90% of use cases. Obviously this is wasteful, far more so than dealing with some reimbursement petitions (which, while regrettable, are still an efficient way of clearing up the mess this issue has created). Fixing something before it is found is presumably the Minority Report method of testing? CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
225
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:i m curious, why is the issue caused exactly? any technical details?
The long and short of it is that the interaction between Crimewatch and Time Dilation prompted a little "disagreement" on criminal status. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gritz1 wrote:I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?
This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
whaynethepain wrote:Hi, I received a GCC for shooting Outlaws, and was Concorded, without warning, at Jita 4-4.
I waited out the timers and re-shipped and was Concorded for opening fire on hostile outlaws once more, without warnings.
I know Concord are busy and have much to do, would it be possible to give them one of them re-inforced nodes to keep up with stuff, rather than just shooting anyone that aggressives?
I understand this is probably an unforeseen edge case log, and I wish you good luck with that, sounds quite painful.
I would also like to use this opportunity to thank CCP for all their efforts to bring the Eve-Online community together and expand the user base, nice one, keep up the good work.
This sounds like you encountered the issue described in this thread. While the issue is now fixed, some people regrettably lost ships and security status. Please submit a petition if you feel you have unjustly lost your assets and this will be reviewed by our diligent Customer Support team. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
221
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
A resounding yes would have to come from a GM, via a petition :) They will check on a case by case basis which cannot happen on the forums
Potrondal Morrison wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Gritz1 wrote:I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this? This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes. That does not sound like a resounding yes. If not then thats just BS.
CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tractus Vesica wrote:I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking. As long as I'm reimbursed for my ships and sec. status I don't really care about this bug. Why? Because it's such a specific bug that we will likely not see it again for months, years, or potentially ever.
Think about it, how often do you have every last person in Jita shooting each other?
Just give me my stuff back, do what you can to fix this, and I'll be a happy consumer.
Make sure you have a petition submitted - we obviously won't address reimbursement claims that haven't been made! CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
221
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tractus Vesica wrote:I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking. As long as I'm reimbursed for my ships and sec. status I don't really care about this bug. Why? Because it's such a specific bug that we will likely not see it again for months, years, or potentially ever.
Think about it, how often do you have every last person in Jita shooting each other?
Just give me my stuff back, do what you can to fix this, and I'll be a happy consumer.
we have already fixed it :) File a petition for any reimbursement.
-- :( Goliath types too fast! CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
226
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 21:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
I have full confidence in the customer support department to look at the cases very carefully :)
Weaselior wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:Tractus Vesica wrote:I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking. As long as I'm reimbursed for my ships and sec. status I don't really care about this bug. Why? Because it's such a specific bug that we will likely not see it again for months, years, or potentially ever.
Think about it, how often do you have every last person in Jita shooting each other?
Just give me my stuff back, do what you can to fix this, and I'll be a happy consumer. we have already fixed it :) File a petition for any reimbursement. -- :( Goliath types too fast! I hope you look at these carefully, because a lot of pubbies are doing dumb things and getting concorded in completely legitimate ways (like trying to shoot our ships before they've committed a criminal act), and I expect they'll all try to petition and claim it was a bug when it was nothing of the sort.
CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
|
|
CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 11:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:I have full confidence in the customer support department to look at the cases very carefully :) Question, do you, or to the GM's.. Assuming kills from this bug are reimbursed [ as they should be, this was a game bug ] will our modules be returned, along with the ship ? I know *normally* it's just modules that didn't drop. But in this case, they wouldn't have dropped if we were not victims of Concord, and with the Activity, and the GCC, we obviously could not go back to loot our own wrecks and recover any drops.. I ask because my alt dropped everything.. So getting just the Hull back, while a step in the right direction of course, is still only half way there :/
Unfortunately I am unable to answer that - The GMs will look at each case individually and judge the best course of action :) CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
|
|
|
|