Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
68
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
I'm very happy to hear this is a bug, and not a case of "The Logs, they show nothing." :)
Annoying as it may be, I fully understand how these issues could have arisin.. Stress Tests on SiSi take place in null, So I doubt there has been nearly as much testing on TiDI and it's interactions with Crimewatch/Concord/etc.
Might be worth, in the future, moving stress tests alternating between Null, Low, and Highsec, to help detect any future issues. |
D3F4ULT
51
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Can't wait till FanFest 2013 to see the graphs and then a comparison graph on how you guys fixed everything. Creator of CCP ZULU - Incarna : Pants Online ( http://youtu.be/AObrlCf3Dcs ) |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Good thing they are putting out all these new dumb expansions when you have bugs that can cause sec + ship lose... LOL.
Failing for 2 years so far CCP
Still aint fixed the lag... calling lag a feature is not fixing it and now lul....
EVERYONE SHOULD PETITION FOR REPLACEMENT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA Load up that petition system really well. |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
adam smash wrote:Good thing they are putting out all these new dumb expansions when you have bugs that can cause sec + ship lose... LOL.
Failing for 2 years so far CCP
Still aint fixed the lag... calling lag a feature is not fixing it and now lul....
EVERYONE SHOULD PETITION FOR REPLACEMENT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA Load up that petition system really well.
Let me tell you about those 15 times in 2009 I jumped through a gate, all was black for 30-45 min, so I logged to find I was DEAD.
Or the times when my ship was killed 4 hours AFTER I logged off.
Or when someone managed to lose a whole fleet because no mods would activate, could not warp out and no ships disappeared until DT and all was scanned down and killed by Evil Thugs crew?
If you do NOT intend to lose your ship, dock up. Fleet battles with more than 300 people have ALWAYS been fought WITH the X-Factor. This is a battle of 2000+ people, so, count on the X-Factors, and prepare to die if you open fire on anything.
Working as intended, but better than it ever has in the past. |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
216
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 17:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:I'm very happy to hear this is a bug, and not a case of "The Logs, they show nothing." :)
Annoying as it may be, I fully understand how these issues could have arisin.. Stress Tests on SiSi take place in null, So I doubt there has been nearly as much testing on TiDI and it's interactions with Crimewatch/Concord/etc.
Might be worth, in the future, moving stress tests alternating between Null, Low, and Highsec, to help detect any future issues.
There has been plenty of testing, but replicating this particular scenario (which would be best described as an edge case) and then finding the defect (also an edge case) while also replicating all other possible edge cases would be a massive waste of time and resources and frankly almost impossible to do. No-one tests like that because of the wasteful nature of the testing, so you must account for the fact that edge cases arise, and if they are severe enough they get fixed at a high priority. The chance of finding this bug would be the loose equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack which only appears when you are with three friends all performing an unrehearsed dance routine in a particular order.
When you say stress testing, I believe you are referring to mass testing, which only accounts for a tiny portion of our QA efforts and needs to cover a wide variety of topics each time - usually newer ones. For proper stress testing we use different techniques but none would have the individual manpower capable of finding a defect like this with any degree of confidence to make it worthwhile. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
206
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Sentinel Smith wrote:I'm very happy to hear this is a bug, and not a case of "The Logs, they show nothing." :)
Annoying as it may be, I fully understand how these issues could have arisin.. Stress Tests on SiSi take place in null, So I doubt there has been nearly as much testing on TiDI and it's interactions with Crimewatch/Concord/etc.
Might be worth, in the future, moving stress tests alternating between Null, Low, and Highsec, to help detect any future issues. There has been plenty of testing, but replicating this particular scenario (which would be best described as an edge case) and then finding the defect (also an edge case) while also replicating all other possible edge cases would be a massive waste of time and resources and frankly almost impossible to do. No-one tests like that because of the wasteful nature of the testing, so you must account for the fact that edge cases arise, and if they are severe enough they get fixed at a high priority. The chance of finding this bug would be the loose equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack which only appears when you are with three friends all performing an unrehearsed dance routine in a particular order. When you say stress testing, I believe you are referring to mass testing, which only accounts for a tiny portion of our QA efforts and needs to cover a wide variety of topics each time - usually newer ones. For proper stress testing we use different techniques but none would have the individual manpower capable of finding a defect like this with any degree of confidence to make it worthwhile.
So, again - you're welcome. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
It seems that even CONCORD wants to kill people in Jita. |
Tractus Vesica
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
Same problem here, made another thread about it here.
Other thread
But this one deserves the attention as it is larger. I'm not a fan of losing around 70 mil in ships and 1.1 in Sec. status due to an overview screw up.
Best example I have is here.
Really? We all threw ships away for a Kestrel? Paranoia is the glue which holds 0.0 together. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1306
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:05:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:
There has been plenty of testing, but replicating this particular scenario (which would be best described as an edge case) and then finding the defect (also an edge case) while also replicating all other possible edge cases would be a massive waste of time and resources and frankly almost impossible to do.
Pretty sure you've had plenty of notice that this particular edge case was coming. I'm also pretty sure that you should have realized this particular edge case would have a major impact on the game.
I have to as myself then, why was this particular edge case not thoroughly tested before it was too late?
I have my suspicions as to why, but I don't need any more of my posts deleted today so I'll just keep them to myself.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
40
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:08:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote: The chance of finding this bug would be the loose equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack which only appears when you are with three friends all performing an unrehearsed dance routine in a particular order.
When you say stress testing, I believe you are referring to mass testing, which only accounts for a tiny portion of our QA efforts and needs to cover a wide variety of topics each time - usually newer ones. For proper stress testing we use different techniques but none would have the individual manpower capable of finding a defect like this with any degree of confidence to make it worthwhile.
Confirming that systems boundry-conditions testing and validation is a massive PITA, and cannot, no matter how many resources you throw at it, ever account for every possibility.
Hell, you're lucky to get 95% of the more common possiblites, most times. I'd say CCP has done their work very well. no doubt, they'll be going over the logs with a magnifying glass for months after Jita smoulders out.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:16:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:
There has been plenty of testing, but replicating this particular scenario (which would be best described as an edge case) and then finding the defect (also an edge case) while also replicating all other possible edge cases would be a massive waste of time and resources and frankly almost impossible to do.
Pretty sure you've had plenty of notice that this particular edge case was coming. I'm also pretty sure that you should have realized this particular edge case would have a major impact on the game. I have to ask myself then, why was this particular edge case not thoroughly tested before it was too late? I have my suspicions as to why, but I don't need any more of my posts deleted today so I'll just keep them to myself. Mr Epeen
You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
Sverige Pahis
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
1029
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
Forget bugs, they're all fine and all but why was my post where I berated that terrible catalyst fit get deleted without warning? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
482
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time. How would a tiny scale "2000 character lagest in jita" even work? Can you artificially stress the server to that kind of extent? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:23:00 -
[74] - Quote
The issue should now be fixed, but please keep reports/petitions/BRs coming if things go awry again.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time. How would a tiny scale "2000 character lag-fest in jita" even work? Can you artificially stress the server to that kind of extent?
Yes we can automate that kind of scale, but it wouldn't be representative or controllable enough to find this issue. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
40
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time. How would a tiny scale "2000 character lag-fest in jita" even work? Can you artificially stress the server to that kind of extent? Yes we can automate that kind of scale, but it wouldn't be representative or controllable enough to find this issue. 'Cause, quite frankly, no automation - anywhere - is going to be able to duplicate the kinds of crazy and unpredictablle things some 2000 humans are going to do.
Simulations don't.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
225
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:31:00 -
[77] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:
You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time.
How much of a waste of time is it going to be when all the petitions for reimbursement of ships because you failed to see the inevitable come rolling in? Better to fix a problem before it happens. Less manpower wasted. Mr Epeen
To paraphrase one of my favourite films: you're out of your element. I could take a development team and spend a year manually testing all possible permutations of the relationship two systems could have with each other and still not clear 90% of use cases. Obviously this is wasteful, far more so than dealing with some reimbursement petitions (which, while regrettable, are still an efficient way of clearing up the mess this issue has created). Fixing something before it is found is presumably the Minority Report method of testing? CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
40
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:
You're using "edge case" in the wrong context twice there, also we don't test based around specific player driven events, we test based on professionally built, planned test cases. It's not like someone goes "hey Goons are going to be in Jita next week, let's try recreating it on a tiny scale on Sisi to see if we hit anything". That would be, as I have said, a massive waste of time.
How much of a waste of time is it going to be when all the petitions for reimbursement of ships because you failed to see the inevitable come rolling in? Better to fix a problem before it happens. Less manpower wasted. Mr Epeen Actually, no. I'm pretty sure that handling all the petitions will be much less man-power intensive than the kinds of testing you're asking for.
Testing and validation is a MASSIVE PITA, and is incredibly fiddly and finicky, if done right. And you don't want what would happen if the testing were done slap-dash. Seriously.
Edit: Damn. Beaten to it. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
225
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:i m curious, why is the issue caused exactly? any technical details?
The long and short of it is that the interaction between Crimewatch and Time Dilation prompted a little "disagreement" on criminal status. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
Drago Palermus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Notwithstanding that the issue you are describing and this issue are separate, as this issue has never arisen in the game before now (nor could it have, really, without a crazy chain of coincidence happening). The Crimewatch system has never been stressed with this many edge cases and mitigating factors before and we will endeavour to react quickly in identifying and resolving issues as they arise. So what you're saying is we're an indispensable part of the QA team? That we suss out problems that were previously unknowable? That we ensure CCP job security by pushing your code and hardware to the limits and then some?
I'm blushing over here... |
|
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
68
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this? |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
249
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:38:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:i m curious, why is the issue caused exactly? any technical details? The long and short of it is that the interaction between Crimewatch and Time Dilation prompted a little "disagreement" on criminal status. Did it cause any lag |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
So maybe you can tell us all something mr dev
Eve is 9-10 years old yes?
FULL of bugs out the ass...
World of tanks just hit 1 year.
The biggest "bug" people complain about is in fact how things should work (not detecting camo netted tanks)
Can ya tell us why eve is just so full of fail when another game is so full of idk WIN?
Can you tell us why when WoT had server lag it took them 2 weeks to fix the issue yet took CCP years to call lag a feature, and still did not get it right?
Bug testing taking time my ass.... this just shows how little you people know...
No one ever thought "O hey since we are slowing down X let's make sure Y Z all tick at the same time"
Idk where I live... that is what gets you places... not sitting around being a brain dead code monkey. |
Carton Mantory
Occassus Republica Trade Wind Commodities
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:39:00 -
[84] - Quote
I find out of a bad situation something good will come. Crimewatch priority up a couple notches...... |
whaynethepain
44
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hi, I received a GCC for shooting Outlaws, and was Concorded, without warning, at Jita 4-4.
I waited out the timers and re-shipped and was Concorded for opening fire on hostile outlaws once more, without warnings.
I know Concord are busy and have much to do, would it be possible to give them one of them re-inforced nodes to keep up with stuff, rather than just shooting anyone that aggressives?
I understand this is probably an unforeseen edge case log, and I wish you good luck with that, sounds quite painful.
I would also like to use this opportunity to thank CCP for all their efforts to bring the Eve-Online community together and expand the user base, nice one, keep up the good work. Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
41
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:i m curious, why is the issue caused exactly? any technical details? The long and short of it is that the interaction between Crimewatch and Time Dilation prompted a little "disagreement" on criminal status. :: nods :: Figgured it was somesuch.
Gotta say, though - the results were pretty epic. And, when you think of it - in a 'real' furball of that nature, a LOT of such mistakes would've happened anyway. 'Friendly fire' is the second child of the fog of war; the first child is 'loss of situational awareness.' Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:40:00 -
[87] - Quote
Gritz1 wrote:I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this?
This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
whaynethepain wrote:Hi, I received a GCC for shooting Outlaws, and was Concorded, without warning, at Jita 4-4.
I waited out the timers and re-shipped and was Concorded for opening fire on hostile outlaws once more, without warnings.
I know Concord are busy and have much to do, would it be possible to give them one of them re-inforced nodes to keep up with stuff, rather than just shooting anyone that aggressives?
I understand this is probably an unforeseen edge case log, and I wish you good luck with that, sounds quite painful.
I would also like to use this opportunity to thank CCP for all their efforts to bring the Eve-Online community together and expand the user base, nice one, keep up the good work.
This sounds like you encountered the issue described in this thread. While the issue is now fixed, some people regrettably lost ships and security status. Please submit a petition if you feel you have unjustly lost your assets and this will be reviewed by our diligent Customer Support team. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
Potrondal Morrison
The Scope Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:46:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Gritz1 wrote:I submitted a petition, and I guess I will put in a bug report as well - but i was concorded when I legally shot a flashy. Is my sec status going to be fixed for this? This doesn't require a bug report as we have now fixed the issue. Your petition will be dealt with in due course and I cannot comment on possible outcomes.
That does not sound like a resounding yes. If not then thats just BS. |
whaynethepain
44
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 18:48:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:whaynethepain wrote:grumble grumble This sounds like you encountered the issue described in this thread. While the issue is now fixed, some people regrettably lost ships and security status. Please submit a petition if you feel you have unjustly lost your assets and this will be reviewed by our diligent Customer Support team.
You guys really are sharp and efficient, nice one, respect to ya, many thanks.
Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |