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Gunner
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:40:00 -
[31]
I think W-space is in concept made for small alliances and medium sized corps, because of the nature of it.
0.0 alliances are on a daily basis trying to get more space under their control, or at least try to keep what they have. W-Space exploration just does not fit into this, unless you have or make enough alts to do the job.
Once you are in W-Space and **** hits the fan, it's not simple to get back to alliance space to join any ops. That's imo the main reason not many large 0.0 alliances will get involved.
*** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gunner I think W-space is in concept made for small alliances and medium sized corps, because of the nature of it.
0.0 alliances are on a daily basis trying to get more space under their control, or at least try to keep what they have. W-Space exploration just does not fit into this, unless you have or make enough alts to do the job.
Once you are in W-Space and **** hits the fan, it's not simple to get back to alliance space to join any ops. That's imo the main reason not many large 0.0 alliances will get involved.
Glad at least one other person was looking at things like I was : )
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Thernys
Caldari Dark Force Recon
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:45:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Enkindu Actually it was my hope that NO ONE could hold a moon indefinitely, but that there might be windows of opportunity to mine the moons for smaller self-contained fleets.
'Indefinitely' is a bad term, as technically the current owners of the moons aren't holding them 'indefinitely' either, you're free to mount up a force and go slap their grubby fingers off the moons.
And I wrote a paragraph here about time investment, logistics nightmares and it all not being worth it in the end, but then I figured you probably already know that.
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OMGJITA
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:02:00 -
[34]
dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: OMGJITA dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
You don't know. But finding you're way out is relatively easy once you locate the wormhole itself. And a w-system can have multiple exits.
So, you and you're corp are exploring, and find a great moon. One or more of your corpies stay in that system, constantly scanning out new exits, relaying those exits to the corp, and you're buddies go through the hassle of flying in. Bunch of haulers shouldn't overload most wormhole masses. One day you enter that system through Heimatar. Two days later, through Lonetrek. But as long as you've got boys on the inside finding those wormholes, you always know where at least ONE entrance is.
You set up shop, and start to mining. Now, just repeat the process. As long as you can get back to k-space, you can arrange either a rendevous with a jump hauler, or a visit to a local station.
The logistics are more complicated, but not really anymore than players had to deal with before cyno's and jump systems. The key, though, is that once you get into the system ... you are always guaranteed a way out.
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OMGJITA
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:13:00 -
[36]
Edited by: OMGJITA on 09/03/2009 19:13:10
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: OMGJITA dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
You don't know. But finding you're way out is relatively easy once you locate the wormhole itself. And a w-system can have multiple exits.
So, you and you're corp are exploring, and find a great moon. One or more of your corpies stay in that system, constantly scanning out new exits, relaying those exits to the corp, and you're buddies go through the hassle of flying in. Bunch of haulers shouldn't overload most wormhole masses. One day you enter that system through Heimatar. Two days later, through Lonetrek. But as long as you've got boys on the inside finding those wormholes, you always know where at least ONE entrance is.
You set up shop, and start to mining. Now, just repeat the process. As long as you can get back to k-space, you can arrange either a rendevous with a jump hauler, or a visit to a local station.
The logistics are more complicated, but not really anymore than players had to deal with before cyno's and jump systems. The key, though, is that once you get into the system ... you are always guaranteed a way out.
well whos a smart ar5e! ;) lol thanks though man, despite spending a large amount of time doig this on sisi i had not thought of the obvious that you just pointed out ;)
lol /slap. ;)
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: OMGJITA Edited by: OMGJITA on 09/03/2009 19:13:10
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: OMGJITA dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
You don't know. But finding you're way out is relatively easy once you locate the wormhole itself. And a w-system can have multiple exits.
So, you and you're corp are exploring, and find a great moon. One or more of your corpies stay in that system, constantly scanning out new exits, relaying those exits to the corp, and you're buddies go through the hassle of flying in. Bunch of haulers shouldn't overload most wormhole masses. One day you enter that system through Heimatar. Two days later, through Lonetrek. But as long as you've got boys on the inside finding those wormholes, you always know where at least ONE entrance is.
You set up shop, and start to mining. Now, just repeat the process. As long as you can get back to k-space, you can arrange either a rendevous with a jump hauler, or a visit to a local station.
The logistics are more complicated, but not really anymore than players had to deal with before cyno's and jump systems. The key, though, is that once you get into the system ... you are always guaranteed a way out.
well whos a smart ar5e! ;) lol thanks though man, despite spending a large amount of time doig this on sisi i had not thought of the obvious that you just pointed out ;)
lol /slap. ;)
Nothing wrong with it. Good discussion.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:31:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 09/03/2009 19:34:08 Im sorry but I dont see the point to have a POS that's constantly getting full and running out of fuel requiring to off line it all the time, and with no gaurantee youll be able to get either done for days on end. I mean alot of us are getting stuck in wspace after the WH collaspes and most of the exit wormholes take us out further and further and further and so far NOBODY has reported visiting the same WH space twice yet.
Even if they do put in high end moon minerals I can gaurantee you that it will be in deadly unknown space, only accessible though other wormhole systems, the only people able to make sure they can constnatly see that fuel is brought in and minerals are taken out WILL be the mega Allainces.
Oh dont use freighters, the have often a nasty habit of collasping a wormhole and with no slots it cant scan for its way out.
Any extensive POS operations deep in W space is highly improbable constantly draining k space resources for marginal returns and excessivly high risk especially when constantly trying to fly new fuel in though less than friendly territory. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:33:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nova Fox Im sorry but I dont see the point to have a POS that's constantly getting full and running out of fuel requiring to off line it all the time, and with no gaurantee youll be able to get either done for days on end. I mean alot of us are getting stuck in wspace after the WH collaspes and most of the exit wormholes take us out further and further and further and so far NOBODY has reported visiting the same WH space twice yet.
Even if they do put in high end moon minerals I can gaurantee you that it will be in deadly unknown space, only accessible though other wormhole systems, the only people able to make sure they can constnatly see that fuel is brought in and minerals are taken out WILL be the mega Allainces.
Oh dont use freighters, the have often a nasty habit of collasping a wormhole and with no slots it cant scan for its way out.
Key words:
TEAM. EFFORT.
And agreed, freighters are bad.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ruze
Key words:
TEAM. EFFORT.
And agreed, freighters are bad.
What do you know? something the mega allainces are not in short supply of. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Originally by: Ruze
Key words:
TEAM. EFFORT.
And agreed, freighters are bad.
What do you know? something the mega allainces are not in short supply of.
So true, it hurts.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:39:00 -
[42]
Saddly theyll probably be one of two people bringing dreadnaughts into w space to purposly pop pos's =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Alora Venoda
GalTech Whiskey Creek Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:39:00 -
[43]
well with T3 around the corner, i may end up abandoning my T2 reactions entirely... or i may do both... i am really curious as to how the market will look in a few days. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:43:00 -
[44]
My plan was gonna be to jump in with a rorq and a carrier (or a rorq and enough combat support) find a moon worth mining, carry as much POS fuel as I could for a small faction tower, then to scan the wormholes in the w-space system and "mass them out" just to the point of collapse regularly so that if the WH is found there won't be much coming through- then mine until I'm either out of fuel or space. Keep in mind the rorq with expanders holds 126k m3. I was just thinking moon mining, no intention whatsoever to go after the sleepers.
Boneheaded scheme? Perhaps. Completely impractical? Probably. But doing boneheaded, impractical stuff is fun. People thought I was nuts when I used to jump my carrier into fountain solo to hit the explo sites there (had an alt that could flipflop between cyno/ garage alt for the carrier) but I made billions and had a BLAST doing it. I don't mind the loss/ risk side of Eve... I just want to play with all of the toys : )
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Enkindu My plan was gonna be to jump in with a rorq and a carrier (or a rorq and enough combat support) find a moon worth mining, carry as much POS fuel as I could for a small faction tower, then to scan the wormholes in the w-space system and "mass them out" just to the point of collapse regularly so that if the WH is found there won't be much coming through- then mine until I'm either out of fuel or space. Keep in mind the rorq with expanders holds 126k m3. I was just thinking moon mining, no intention whatsoever to go after the sleepers.
Boneheaded scheme? Perhaps. Completely impractical? Probably. But doing boneheaded, impractical stuff is fun. People thought I was nuts when I used to jump my carrier into fountain solo to hit the explo sites there (had an alt that could flipflop between cyno/ garage alt for the carrier) but I made billions and had a BLAST doing it. I don't mind the loss/ risk side of Eve... I just want to play with all of the toys : )
the more stuff you shove into your roquel the more likely youll break the WH. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Nova Fox Saddly theyll probably be one of two people bringing dreadnaughts into w space to purposly pop pos's
A single dread vs an even moderately gunned POS is going to have problems.
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Kyanzes
Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:54:00 -
[47]
NO WIN BUTTON??? I'M OUTTA HERE.
--------------------------------------------- Unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality. |
Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Nova Fox
the more stuff you shove into your roquel the more likely youll break the WH.
As long as you slipped in a few decent scanning/ combat ships ahead of time (only barges and indys in the rorq) collapsing the wormhole would be good. Rorq has 40k corp hangar so you could tweak fits in there with it. I was envisioning scanning and trying to mass out the WH pretty much as quickly as I could find them.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:02:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Enkindu
Originally by: Nova Fox
the more stuff you shove into your roquel the more likely youll break the WH.
As long as you slipped in a few decent scanning/ combat ships ahead of time (only barges and indys in the rorq) collapsing the wormhole would be good. Rorq has 40k corp hangar so you could tweak fits in there with it. I was envisioning scanning and trying to mass out the WH pretty much as quickly as I could find them.
Is that a good idea? I mean, you can monitor a wormhole you know ... specifically if it's in some innocent section of space. But if you close down the only k-space wormhole, you're going to force a new one to appear ... possibly in some very bad space.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:07:00 -
[50]
thats the decision youll have to come to of figuring out if you want to moderatly arm the POS or not considering youll have to bring it ammo and the guns as well and your probably referring to a large towers armaments not the light towers most people are suggesting here. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:19:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ruze
Is that a good idea? I mean, you can monitor a wormhole you know ... specifically if it's in some innocent section of space. But if you close down the only k-space wormhole, you're going to force a new one to appear ... possibly in some very bad space.
Could be. I trained up calibration V to help deal with this potential problem, but yes you could end up screwed- that's part of the allure of wormholes ; )
It's all moot now anyway, no moons to go looking for : (
Thanks to everyone sharing ideas and discussion- that was the intention of my original post.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:23:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 09/03/2009 20:23:48 W-space has nothing for me. So it is nearly certain I will not be going either. No bounties, no moons to mine. And the loot drops will be of dubious value.
If I want challenging, unpredictable encounters I can simply hang around lowsec gates. With the added possible bonus of smack and tears -- two things Sleepers will not provide.
Besides, my Domi still works vs players.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:32:00 -
[53]
I'm thinking a lot of the W-space content will be farmed endlessly by some groups (who will no doubt find a flawless setup that works every time vs sleepers) and totally ignored by others. I hope not though; last thing we need is more Drone Regions.
- Infectious - |
Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:35:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kyanzes
NO WIN BUTTON??? I'M OUTTA HERE.
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Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:49:00 -
[55]
The people posting the "no win button" crap.. could you please read the post and not just the thread title before responding?
If you did you'd see that I wasn't asking for a "win" button, but rather for a chance to take an unarmed, unescorted 2 billion isk ship loaded with half a billion isk worth of fuel and equipment into extremely dangerous space (with no guarantee of a safe route home) with the hope that I could survive and return with enough dysprosium to make the expedition worth it.
It's not about winning- it's about just getting the chance to try some stuff out. I think that's a big part of why some of us play eve.
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:50:00 -
[56]
Edited by: mechtech on 09/03/2009 20:50:31 You're missing something, it's incredibly easy for alliances to lock down a WH system with a good moon in it.
Get a few pilots into the system, pop wormholes 'till one appears in high sec/friendly space, move pilots and an industrial with a POS in, pop more WHs, bring more pilots/supplies in, plop down the POS make a few cap ships -> the system is untouchable to anyone.
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Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:58:00 -
[57]
Thought you needed sov to build caps?
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.09 21:26:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Sebea on 09/03/2009 21:27:13
Originally by: Enkindu Thought you needed sov to build caps?
No.
Sov 4 is obviously superior for building caps because of the pos immunity, but caps can be built anywhere really.
Edit: And though yours wasn't really a wall of text, did you see how much information I gave you in one sentence? Your overly verbose, and your using too many big words put together for the General Discussion forums.
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.09 21:27:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Enkindu Thought you needed sov to build caps?
You're right, no sov in WH space. Well regardless, alliances would have the dyspro moons in a month or to. If you already have a few pilots in the system, you can have over a hundred in within 24 hours. Popping wormholes is really easy.
That means that alliance warfare would take place in high value WH systems. CCP didn't want this to happen to WH space. The whole mechanic is designed for it to be isolated and fit only for roaming gangs.
Of course alliance warfare in high value WH space could be kinda interesting (but mostly tedious), but it would bring in whole new problems, such as WH nodes crashing, and contingencies that they didn't, and don't want, to plan for. I support their decision, WH space is an expansion of the exploration concept, I'm sure we'll see an expansion of alliance warfare in the next expansion or 2, it's about due.
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Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.10 00:50:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sebea Your overly verbose, and your using too many big words put together for the General Discussion forums.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
You guys are probably right that the big alliances would eventually find a way to lock down any available good moons in W-space. But the sheer number of new systems might have at least offered a chance for a few of the smaller motivated corps to have a chance to play a little, and I still believe the logistic hurdles associated with getting in and out of w-space might dissuade people from trying to establish long term POS there. I could be wrong of course.
I doubt I'm the only person in the game who is more than a little dissapointed that moon mining was cut from w-space.
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