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Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 00:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Auto-ignore (mute) for Known Trolls, Spamers, and Harrasers An interesting idea was presented by this: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/harassment It is essentially a low level websosode for video programing. This one was unique in the fact it would allow more play styles and allow more free speech to those who want to hear it while at the same time preserving the enjoyment of those who don't want to harassed or deal trolls.
Eve has been known for a game of being a sand box. I would love to allow those people hate and verbally abuse people to continue to do it to those who wish to fight that way. Though Using Swears, seudo racial slurs, etc. is simply not for me and when I pop into local I would love it if those people who have had a history of Poor social behaviour to be auto ignored in local if a number of people with good reputations have ignored that person in the past. Though I would still like to un ignore them if wish. In case they are actually one of my friends who were brought up on the other side of the tracks. Or allow me to set my Auto Ignore level GÇô XXX If I am a Goon hanging out with my friends and we communicate with nothing but swear words in 14 different languages and our level acceptance with in the goons is dependent on how much and how well I troll or PG13 For the care bear lifers in high sec.
This presentation also talks about fixes getting around this feature. Placing a person on auto ignore in local for a period of time, or (make it a skill that has to be learn, each level opens up auto communication VS being auto ignored.) ie trial accounts or account under 1 month
This would clean up the game for a lot of people and help with the Eve immersion for many. Helping people retain the people who dislikes some of the speech or spam in local.
Watch the video- they go into the subject a lot better than my typing.
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
418
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 00:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
This would be abused to the point of uselessness in seconds.
We'd have you ignored pretty quickly for example |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 00:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
I am sure in the beginning it would be the GMs building the auto ignore list. All those people who have muted a a period of time on the Auto ignore list possibly for a set period of time like 1 month.
Since they would end up on the auto ignore list the GMs would be doing a lot less "muting" on players as the GM who are placing the person on MUTE gets a complaint about the action of an individual about his talk in local, can now just say - "hey you Turn off your Auto-ignore button, you knew this guy was going to say something nasty, it is you the complainers fault for allowing this to happen. Now leave me alone I have more important Petitions to deal with!!"
In the past I have been apart of corps who's game is to grief other players by enticing them to say something bad and then run off to a GM saying "Billy Hurt me" Waating a lot of GM time which could be spent of other issues
The Billy sends in a Petition in about why he was muted....
Eve is a smart mans game, and Social Combat is is allowed in the game. Thrift, Betrayal are all allowed actions. Now CCP should give the community as a whole the tools to crush the trolls that spread poison. This will allow the community to police them selves instead of forcing GM, who are over worked, muting random people. The Trolls are the minority, as such the community if having the tools should be able to limit the damage the trolls.Eve is a smart mans game, and Social Combat is is allowed in the game. Theift, Betryl The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
37
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 01:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
When thinking of features, everybody should ask themselves:
Now, if I was a huge ****... how could I abuse this system.
You clearly haven't. |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 02:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
so by rolling it out through GMs is going to be bad? Arn't these guys neutral
on the second step I do understand a 12,000 CFC on a whim could shut down a person on a whim. But how often are the same group of people going to take the effort to do this... --?Well if you challenge them they will....
--> Using metrics will have to be used: ----> to if more than xx not in same solar system does not effect, Or ----> So much between X and Y over a period of time will be counted per period of time. ----->People who Ignore above x/per hours/ How long they have been playing, counted for results. -----> People who have are auto ignored, and their alt characters - won't count towards the ignored account. -----> People ignoring people on auto ignore may put up a flag of not taking them seriously towards them ignoring people. -----> Then finally petition, may put the Auto ignore on timer depending on the recorded history of the person who sent the ban.
Finally am I silencing these guy from any communication, No, they can try an direct convo others, just there will be a message "This person has a reputation for poor social conduct in local, do you wish to accept his convo" What this is doing removing the Megaphone from those who are abusing local.
Is lack of access to broadcast in local game breaking. Of Course not. Hell many people have local minimized in empire because of all these people who would have been auto ignored have polluted local with their harsh and/or spamming words. The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1416
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 02:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
The problem is that you're setting up a system of limitations in a sandbox game. There's already an ignore/block feature in the game, you're just asking for someone else to pre-set up your block list because you're too lazy to do it. Just block the people yourself and you won't have to listen to them any more. |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 05:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
I am looking for an "option" to allow people to experience the content they want. I am sure that those who want to read the noise pollution can just "hear all"
There are just some things that can't be unseen or unheard, It give me more control of the content "I" choose to receive.
This is adding to the sand box not removing it. I want content that adds to immersion of the game, and some one making real world raciest Comments pulls me right out of the world of eve.
For a parent allowing my child to play eve which is rated a "TEEN" game this would help moving it away from negative experience that a person can experience because someone yells something that DOES NOT ADD TO THE GAME.
I guess for a tool that allow me to remove Pile of Dog poop from my portion of the sand box. I do realize that some people like playing with Piles of Dog poop, so I am not preventing them that experience. The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1417
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 05:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
You already have the tools to block anyone you want to and clear chat afterwards. If you're too lazy to block people, then don't complain about it.
You already have the tools to filter stuff as much as you want (you can even completely close any chat window you want to (or unblink and minimize Local, which amounts to the same thing as closing it). The tools are out there though, you just need to use them. |
GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 05:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ijust want my thumbs down button |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
603
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 05:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
It won't work. People will just get around the filters by being more vague and suggestive with their language. If you crack down on even "suggestive" phrases and/or words then eventually you'll get to the point where everyone is censored.
I know this will sound harsh... but stop being a prude and realize that you are playing a game where murder is effectively legal, exotic dancers can be bought and sold like cattle, slavery is a major theme between two races, racism is a major theme between ALL the races... bioengineering, meglomania, elitism, suicide, gays, lesbians, etc. etc. are all common place. EVE is filled to the brim with taboo subjects that even I would hesitate to explain to my young cousins. Yet, you are concerned about words and/or phrases that only have meaning because you allow them to have meaning???? Priorities sir. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 05:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
"There are just some things that can't be unseen or unheard,"
I don't want to have to experience the content a WELL KNOWN social abuser when I don't have to.
It is common for goons to Link X-RATED material in Local. If I was a female players would find this content objectionable. I know when X-RATED Male material I find it Objectionable.
Before we start going into about word or image filters. I want people who want to see that stuff, can. But for those who don't, don't have too.
I want to feel I am playing with a mature audience, and when people are delving into shock content, I feel I am playing with bunch of teens or rednecks of an IQ in the double Digits. The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1420
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 06:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well, your first mistake is following links in Local, lol. You click it, it's your own fault what you see, lol. Especially if you follow a Goon link, lol. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
604
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 06:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:"There are just some things that can't be unseen or unheard," Just like in RL, eh?
Gevlin wrote:I don't want to have to experience the content a WELL KNOWN social abuser when I don't have to. To echo what mxzf said... Easy work around: block them (yes, it requires that you move your mouse and click).
Gevlin wrote:I want to feel I am playing with a mature audience, and when people are delving into shock content, I feel I am playing with bunch of teens or rednecks of an IQ in the double Digits. I consider myself a fairly mature person. I think scat and sex jokes are pretty funny. Maybe the problem is that YOUR sensibilities are too sensitive compared to others. Maybe YOU should learn to be a little more tolerant?
edit:
mxzf wrote:Well, your first mistake is following links in Local, lol. You click it, it's your own fault what you see, lol. Especially if you follow a Goon link, lol. ^^ This. Whenever I see a link in local and I feel the idiotic urge to click it, I fully understand that whatever image I might see may haunt me for the rest of my life. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 07:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
In Real life a person can not yell X-RATED content or hand out **** on the street corner in the cleanest portion of the city with out reproductions. Which is like JITA.
So I real life the chance of experiencing things about unseeing or unheard reduces dramatically depending on the portion of town you hang out.
1 man speaks spam and negative content ( makes him happy) 1000 people have to deal with it making a negative experience for them. as the day progresses this continues, the people hearing the spam change. 500 per hour.
Great so the negative actions of 1 person, now effect the thousand of others enjoyment. This negative spam is "not" beneficial feature for the mass majority of the player base.
So i am not in the mood to encourage giving bully the ability to keep finding new prey. I would like these guys to play on their own kind not the general public.
I want this prey to have option to be exposed in this non imersive content or not. Not to be forces to either ignore it or go though the additional effort clicking ignore. This is not about me it is what other, new players experience the game. They see this poor social content and feel that the actions of these few players is what eve is all about.
If you have not watch the video linked at the top of the thread watch it. It goes beyond GÇ£ Durherder just press ignoreGÇ¥ answer. Which is the current default in all games. I want to improve the community, and give them power to police them selves.. Moving away from "Censored Content" to players selecting the community content what they want to experience. I want a choice!! not being told this is what you are going to have like it or not.
Watch the video - I am seeing comments that are obviously being made without watching the video.
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1421
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 07:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
There's no 'bully' or 'prey' here. There's 'player running his mouth off' and 'oversensitive players who can't bring themselves to just ignore him'. You do have a choice. You can choose to pay attention to the guy or not. It really is as simple as just ignoring the spammer(s).
If you choose to read what people say and click their links, don't get upset about it.
Oh, and as to your 'seedy side of town' example, that's what Jita is, the seedy side of town. Everyone knows that there's a ton of chat spam there all the time. Just because it's a trade hub doesn't make it the nice side of town. If you choose to go to where the unsavory people are, don't complain that there are unsavory people there. |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 07:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
mxzf wrote:There's no 'bully' or 'prey' here. There's 'player running his mouth off' and 'oversensitive players who can't bring themselves to just ignore him'. You do have a choice. You can choose to pay attention to the guy or not. It really is as simple as just ignoring the spammer(s).
If you choose to read what people say and click their links, don't get upset about it.
Oh, and as to your 'seedy side of town' example, that's what Jita is, the seedy side of town. Everyone knows that there's a ton of chat spam there all the time. Just because it's a trade hub doesn't make it the nice side of town. If you choose to go to where the unsavory people are, don't complain that there are unsavory people there.
have you viewed the video link. if not please do..... Promise it does not lead to ****..... or do I.... The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
606
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 08:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:have you viewed the video link? if not please do..... Promise it does not lead to X-Rated Material..... or do I.... It is one's choice whether to click the link or not. If you don't want to risk that it might be something that offends you, don't click it. As simple as that.
If you are afraid of "kids" clicking the link, explain to them that clicking "questionable links" is bad (for a variety of reasons other than it just being "potentially explicit") and one should not do it unless they know full well what they are doing. The excuse that "kids don't know any better" is, in my opinion, utter rubbish. Kids (even young ones) are smarter than you think... especially if you take the time to explain the "birds and the bees." Knowing is power and does wonders more than creating a mechanic that is both easily abused and draconian. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 09:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Gevlin wrote:have you viewed the video link? if not please do..... Promise it does not lead to X-Rated Material..... or do I.... It is one's choice whether to click the link or not. If you don't want to risk that it might be something that offends you, don't click it. As simple as that. If you are afraid of "kids" clicking the link, explain to them that clicking "questionable links" is bad (for a variety of reasons other than it just being "potentially explicit") and one should not do it unless they know full well what they are doing. The excuse that "kids don't know any better" is, in my opinion, utter rubbish. Kids (even young ones) are smarter than you think... especially if you take the time to explain the "birds and the bees." Knowing is power and does wonders more than creating a mechanic that is both easily abused and draconian.
Dude! watch the video linked at the top of the thread. You will see what I am writing in a different light I will see the tone of your argument would be different. It is becoming apparent I am not describing things will enough. Yes I still can be wrong, but I feel we are talking about 2 different thoughts.
Side stepping my failed attempt of hummer... Watch the video, it is about 11 mins long. The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
420
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 09:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:I am sure in the beginning it would be the GMs building the auto ignore list. All those people who have muted a a period of time on the Auto ignore list possibly for a set period of time like 1 month.
Since they would end up on the auto ignore list the GMs would be doing a lot less "muting" on players as the GM who are placing the person on MUTE gets a complaint about the action of an individual about his talk in local, can now just say - "hey you Turn off your Auto-ignore button, you knew this guy was going to say something nasty, it is you the complainers fault for allowing this to happen. Now leave me alone I have more important Petitions to deal with!!"
In the past I have been apart of corps who's game is to grief other players by enticing them to say something bad and then run off to a GM saying "Billy Hurt me" Waating a lot of GM time which could be spent of other issues
The Billy sends in a Petition in about why he was muted....
Eve is a smart mans game, and Social Combat is is allowed in the game. Thrift, Betrayal are all allowed actions. Now CCP should give the community as a whole the tools to crush the trolls that spread poison. This will allow the community to police them selves instead of forcing GM, who are over worked, muting random people. The Trolls are the minority, as such the community if having the tools should be able to limit the damage the trolls.Eve is a smart mans game, and Social Combat is is allowed in the game. Theift, Betryl
Do you not think the GMs have better things to do than maintain a list of every player in eve who hurts your feelings? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
608
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 09:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:Dude! watch the video linked at the top of the thread. You will see what I am writing in a different light I will see the tone of your argument would be different. It is becoming apparent I am not describing things will enough. Yes I still can be wrong, but I feel we are talking about 2 different thoughts.
Side stepping my failed attempt of hummer... Watch the video, it is about 11 mins long.
Alright I'll bite.
The first idea presented: "Auto-mute" based on players muting said individual. Abuse 1: The problem with this idea is that you can have a large group of people "auto-mute" some poor random sob so that he/she can no longer speak. Fix 1: Have a threshold for the "auto-mute" to be enabled (ex. 100 mutes from players). Abuse 2: This puts individual players and/or small corps/alliances at the mercy of large corps/alliances with 100s, sometimes thousands of players. Problem: You set the threshold too low and people will be "auto-muted" everywhere. You set it too high and you put smaller entities at the mercy of larger ones.
The second idea presented: "Earning" voice/chat rights. Abuse: it won't take long for large tightly knit organizations to give each other (and/or their alts) "promotions" or whatever limit is instituted. Fix: Set the ability to "earn" such rights low. Problem: Larger organizations will still get the "rights" faster than individual and/or small groups of people. And if set too low it effectively silences brand new players.
The third idea presented: "Peers" rating organizations. Problem: Can be abused in pretty much the same ways the first idea can be.
Also... much of what the video is based on is purely opinion. I don't smacktalk people in local because I'm a terrible person (well, not a completely terrible person) but because it's funny to see people take it seriously and get mad (sometimes REALLY, unjustifiably mad). I don't gank people because I was deprived of a childhood and/or seek attention (I had a very pleasant childhood and was often given too much attention) but because I was either paid by said person's competition or I was just hungering for a killmail and that was the closest thing to my stomping grounds. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
134
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 11:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:
Do you not think the GMs have better things to do than maintain a list of every player in eve who hurts your feelings?
They are muting people any ways. with increasing lengths. these lists are already being completed. Just the Auto Ignore would shorten the list, Allow more harsh speech as people can now choose to listen to this content with out worry of being totally muted because they dropped a 4 letter word. Freeing up the work of GMS
as I mentioned earlier in this thread
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
134
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 12:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Gevlin wrote:Dude! watch the video linked at the top of the thread. You will see what I am writing in a different light I will see the tone of your argument would be different. It is becoming apparent I am not describing things will enough. Yes I still can be wrong, but I feel we are talking about 2 different thoughts.
Side stepping my failed attempt of hummer... Watch the video, it is about 11 mins long. Alright I'll bite. The first idea presented: "Auto-mute" based on players muting said individual. Abuse 1: The problem with this idea is that you can have a large group of people "auto-mute" some poor random sob so that he/she can no longer speak. Fix 1: Have a threshold for the "auto-mute" to be enabled (ex. 100 mutes from players). Abuse 2: This puts individual players and/or small corps/alliances at the mercy of large corps/alliances with 100s, sometimes thousands of like-minded players. Fix 2: You have people/organizations that are set low unable to "auto-mute" others and abuse this mechanic. Abuse 3: People/organizations preemptively strike and/or use alt accounts to "auto-mute" people, returning to Abuse 1. Overall Problem: You set the threshold too low and people will be "auto-muted" everywhere. You set it too high and you put smaller entities at the mercy of larger ones. The second idea presented: "Earning" voice/chat rights. Abuse: it won't take long for large, tightly knit organizations to give each other (and/or their alts) "promotions" or whatever limit is instituted. Fix: Set the ability to "earn" such rights low. Overall Problem: Larger organizations will still get the "rights" faster than individual and/or small groups of people. And if set too low it effectively silences brand new players and/or becomes nothing but a mere annoyance for all. The third idea presented: People "rating" organizations. Overall Problem: Same as the first idea but on a large scale. Also... much of what the video is based on is purely opinion. I don't smacktalk people in local because I'm a terrible person (well, not a completely terrible person) but because it's funny to see people take it seriously and get mad (sometimes REALLY, unjustifiably mad). I don't gank people because I am a bully (I was smart enough to stay out of their way and/or be bestest fwends with the teachers) but because I was either paid by said person's competition or I was just hungering for a killmail and that was the closest thing to my stomping grounds. I don't link "questionable" pictures in local chat because I was deprived of a childhood and/or seek attention (I had a very pleasant childhood and was often given too much attention) but because I find it funny how easy it is to offend people's modern sensibilities (honestly, previous generations were FAR more crude and hardcore than ours... some of the things my uncles and grandparents say still shock me).
Thank You for actually watching the clip.
Your arguments are solid... and yes the majority of the Clip are opinions - base on no real statics as this idea has never been really applied.
I know in null sec, in goon Space where I have played in the past 6 months in Space monkey alliance. (on null sec break currently) A lot of the Goons have been Mutted for several days preventing them to use their smake talk martial arts. Though giving an option to allow people to heard by people who know the stigma of that individual. In the end two people can have a super X-Rated smak talk conversation in local while those who wish to have Auto ignore on won't know this event is going on.
in general I agree with you... on the couple of items is sorta disagree I can't agrue effectively with out making no scene.
I have tried rewritten response 3 time and nothing is working so I have not posted them. So at this point I have to admit defeat to ShahFluffers.
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
XiiX Smyth
Mentant
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 13:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
I submitted a suggestion/request to increase the Contracts ignore list for obvious reasons.
We now have a high limit on contracts ignore and I'm not even close to filling it yet.
Devs must have had numerous similar requests, and action was taken.
If you get a good part of the community to make a request like yours it should happen naturally.
As mentioned already, we have stuff to deal with this problem.
Suggest making recommendations to build on and improve what we have now. |
DitchDigger
Hibi Proletariat
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 19:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think the best solution (for EVE and similar games) would be to have a subscribable block-list. That way, people can chose to subscribe to an ignore list built by someone they trust.
If such lists grow large enough and have sufficient subscribers, then their begins to be atleast some real consequence to running your mouth and behaving like a jerk. This would, however, avoid draining CCP resources or forcing people to ignore someone they might prefer to contact. |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 20:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
that is an interesting idea The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 21:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Also... much of what the video is based on is purely opinion. I don't smacktalk people in local because I'm a terrible person (well, not a completely terrible person) but because it's funny to see people take it seriously and get mad (sometimes REALLY, unjustifiably mad). I don't gank people because I am a bully (I was smart enough to stay out of their way and/or be bestest fwends with the teachers) but because I was either paid by said person's competition or I was just hungering for a killmail and that was the closest thing to my stomping grounds. I don't link "questionable" pictures in local chat because I was deprived of a childhood and/or seek attention (I had a very pleasant childhood and was often given too much attention) but because I find it funny how easy it is to offend people's modern sensibilities (honestly, previous generations were FAR more crude and hardcore than ours... some of the things my uncles and grandparents say still shock me).
Most of that video is correct though. There is a reason the women in EVE hide away in our own little channel. Its pretty atrocious the things people say to women in EVE. This new age machismo where proving how much you don't care somehow means your stronger than everyone else is childish.
Did your uncles and grandparents go around saying shocking things in public, or in front of women and children? Not that women can't take it, but generally this older generation you speak of, had a greater respect for women.
In terms of misogyny EVE is probably one of the greatest offenders. Simply as a by product of the numbers, finding any girls strong enough to withstand the onslaught of bullshit thrown out way is miraculous. I'm still surprised we make up 5% of the playerbase. I know a few girls who fake not having mics because of how people act around them and the **** that is thrown at them just for being female.
In regards to the ideas, I'd love an auto-mute function, but the problem lies in coms, not in game usually. Sure pics are awful, but the barrage of bullshit comes over coms, where CCP has no real domain as long as people use third party clients. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
622
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Posted - 2012.04.30 21:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Most of that video is correct though. There is a reason the women in EVE hide away in our own little channel. Its pretty atrocious the things people say to women in EVE. This new age machismo where proving how much you don't care somehow means your stronger than everyone else is childish.
Did your uncles and grandparents go around saying shocking things in public, or in front of women and children? Not that women can't take it, but generally this older generation you speak of, had a greater respect for women.
In terms of misogyny EVE is probably one of the greatest offenders. Simply as a by product of the numbers, finding any girls strong enough to withstand the onslaught of bullshit thrown out way is miraculous. I'm still surprised we make up 5% of the playerbase. I know a few girls who fake not having mics because of how people act around them and the **** that is thrown at them just for being female.
In regards to the ideas, I'd love an auto-mute function, but the problem lies in coms, not in game usually. Sure pics are awful, but the barrage of bullshit comes over coms, where CCP has no real domain as long as people use third party clients.
I will confess... my family has never publicly said shocking things (at least, not in English). But offensive remarks have been directed at us in varying forms. And while we may not like it, we tolerate it because we understand that any system set up to "ban" such remarks can easily be twisted against us for things that WE consider non-offensive. (also... that same "greater respect" that the older generations had for women was "double-edged"... they may have treated women as "ladies"... but they certainly did not treat them as equals).
Quite basically... this whole thread is about setting up a system based on subjectivity. No matter what you do or say, no matter how careful and PC you are... SOMEONE is going to be offended. And rather than deal with a system that can be so easily twisted one way or another I'd rather simply ignore remarks that I find offensive.
Here is a good example: I employ a bunch of blue collar guys. Their wive(s) and/or girlfriends and/or "ladyfriends" stop by every so often to say "hi" and when they do, they often level most offensive and crass remarks at each other (openly too). I find this not acceptable and have made it clear that I do not wish to hear any of that in my business. However, when some of my family and/or friends from the "old country" stop by, I give them the traditional "three kisses" on the cheeks... which my employees find deeply disturbing/offensive because it seems incestuous and/or gay.
Who has the greater claim to being offended? The same concept can be carried over into games. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
94
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Bottom line... this whole thread is about setting up a system based on subjectivity (and the numerous abuses of such a system that people have pointed out). No matter what you do or say, no matter how careful and PC you are... SOMEONE is going to be offended. And rather than deal with a system that can be so easily twisted one way or another I'd rather simply ignore remarks that I find offensive.
Largely, this isn't that. By and far having one person be offended isn't enough to get someone punished. I don't think anyone would agree to a system where one complaint would lead to an auto-mute. However in systems like Xbox live, where there is generally one lone douchebag and 30 silent consenters, those complains could make a difference.
It doesn't touch on EVE and CCP however, as I've already said it isn't feasible to monitor voice coms. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
911
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
mxzf wrote:If you choose to go to where the unsavory people are, don't complain that there are unsavory people there.
Point of interest -- Eve has a place where there are not unsavoury types? I mean, seriously ... you can get violenced anywhere and everywhere for any reason whatsoever, and the devs will simply say to the person doing the violencing
[stuck up rich person voice] ha ha ha ha Good show, old boy. [/stuck up rich person voice]
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Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
137
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:mxzf wrote:If you choose to go to where the unsavory people are, don't complain that there are unsavory people there. Point of interest -- Eve has a place where there are not unsavoury types? I mean, seriously ... you can get violenced anywhere and everywhere for any reason whatsoever, and the devs will simply say to the person doing the violencing [stuck up rich person voice] ha ha ha ha Good show, old boy. [/stuck up rich person voice]
In the real world there is many places where I can be with out hearing X-rated material, I would like to extend that into my experience in eve. There are many people in eve that feel the same way. On the other hand there are many people who enjoy the X-rated material and love spreading it. With the unique place of technology we can satify both camps of play with the option of Auto ignore people who have a history of unsavory behavior. They can now speak their piece to those who want to hear it while those of use who don't want to have to listen to it don't have to.
As recommended when a person is ignored by 100 people, that is a good sign that this person is not some one who is worth listening to, if I wish to have an enjoyable game. Though this option does not Prevent this person from communitcating to those who want to talk to him. It just removes the Megaphone.
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
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