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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Fairhand
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:09:00 -
[1]
Do you have problems with unacceptably low FPS on your Mac running the new Premium Client? There IS something you can do about it!
Anecdotally, users with Macs containing an ATi card are getting much lower FPS than those with an nVidia card. It has been discussed in the EVE Forum here.
Credit should go to Caldari Citizen 3456346 for first documenting his changes to the Eve config file. His efforts were expanded upon by Summer Fire which in turn inspired others including myself to delve further into the config file.
The file in question is this one... "~/Library/Preferences/EVE Online Preferences/config" - note it has no extension but can safely be opened in TextEdit. PLEASE take a backup of this file BEFORE making any changes.
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Here are the key changes you have the option of adjusting in this file if you need to improve your frame rate.
Original unchanged values as released by CCP...
Quote: [d3dgl] "dynamicvbo" = "Y" "indexvbo" = "Y" "fbo" = "Y" "fbobackbuffer" = "1"
Modify to...
Quote: [d3dgl] "dynamicvbo" = "N" "indexvbo" = "N" "fbo" = "N" "fbobackbuffer" = "0"
Here is the latest discussion and background of these changes in context. Remember too that we still do not know what these changes ACTUALLY do, just that turning them off dramatically improves the FPS on an iMac with ATI HD2600PRO card. Hopefully a CCP Tech will help us understand what these settings actually do in the game.
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After umpteen "change something, log in, benchmark, log out and reset" attempts, I have zoomed in to FOUR lines in the config file that offer SIGNIFICANT frame-rate improvements. There were plenty of options that caused crashes when disabled or just did not have any appreciable effect at all, but I checked 'em all anyway.
Test System : Mid-2007 iMac 24" 2.8GHz dual core, 2Gb, ATI HD2600PRO 256Mb. OS X Leopard. All user applications closed except for Activity Monitor.
Game Settings : 1920x1200, Display Setup all options default. Effects all on except drone models. Miscellaneous Use LOD and Sun Occluded on, others off. Graphics Content all disabled, cache off. Shaders Medium, Textures Medium.
Test Location : Luse starbase in Gallente Civilian Shuttle. Undock, zoom in as close behind the shuttle as possible, wait for shuttle to stabilise its flight, Ctrl-F to check frame rate. Note : visible traffic in front of me was light during all these tests.
DEFAULT no changes : FPS 30, CPU 55%
dynamicvbo "N" : FPS 45-50 indexvbo "N" : FPS 36-39
dynamicvbo "N" AND indexvbo "N" : FPS 55-65, CPU 70%
This was the point at which I noticed that when the sun was visible, the frame rate was at the lower end of the two numbers and the FPS climbed as the sun was occluded by the ship.
fbo "N" : FPS 36-38 fbobackbuffer "0" FPS 35-36
fbo "N" AND fbobackbuffer "0" : FPS 36-38 (seems that fbobackbuffer is a subset of fbo)
Now for the big test... ALL of the above set at once...
dynamicvbo "N" AND indexvbo "N", fbo "N" AND fbobackbuffer "0" : FPS 80-95, CPU 85%
Yes, that is right - 80fps with the sun visible, 95fps when the sun was not on screen!!!
I then decided to fly around and have a look at how it changed..
In space outside station : FPS 80-95 In warp : FPS 50-55 In asteroid field : FPS 40-50 Zoomed in close to ONE ship against black background : FPS 110-120+ (there was a retriever pilot wondering why I was flying round him in a shuttle)
So - there you have it folks. Those four options ALONE can seriously boost the FPS although the processor then has to work harder to keep feeding the graphics card, so beware of the extra heat.
I was not able to detect ANY visual anomalies or differences, but I am sure our tech-minded folks can suggest what these settings may be affecting. It would be very nice to have "english" translations of what I have been turning off.
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Fairhand
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:19:00 -
[2]
WARNING : increasing the frame rate will cause your CPU to work harder. Take appropriate precautions to deal with this extra heat, especially if you play on a MacBook.
See the sticky thread in this forum for advice on how to deal with this.
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LuckyL4rry
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Posted - 2009.03.12 19:34:00 -
[3]
First of all a BIG THANK YOU to all those config file explorers who made this possible.
I just want to add that, if you want high quality shaders (to enable shadows), at least the "fbo" setting has to be on "Y". Otherwise EVE crashes here right after logging in, before it wants to show the character selection screen. Framerates are acceptable here (same machine as thread starter): Around 30fps in station, minimum of 20 outside, often more.
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Orontes Ovasi
Minmatar COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.03.13 23:57:00 -
[4]
Thanks so much. This needs a sticky.
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Jared D'Uroth
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Posted - 2009.03.14 00:56:00 -
[5]
THANK YOU SO MUCH I CAN PLAY EVE AGAIN <3
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Fairhand
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.14 07:40:00 -
[6]
I am glad this is helping folks.
CCP Tech, is there any chance of an explanation of what these config file settings are actually affecting please?
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Remus Navillum
z3r0 Gravity Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.03.14 08:38:00 -
[7]
Fascinating. I'm on an nvidia card, but there was still a relatively marked increase in in-space FPS (about 5-9 FPS increase, ranges around 41 and 53 fps), but only a 1-2 FPS increase in station (between 26 and 33 fps). This is using just the dynamicvbo and indexvbo changes with high textures and shaders.
Now, I'm not getting FPS anywhere on the levels described in the first post, but there was a small increase, and, interestingly enough, no marked increase in CPU usage. Also, I left just about all the effects on.
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Fairhand
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.14 09:17:00 -
[8]
I am glad you were able to squeeze out a few extra FPS on your nVidia card.
When I reported the huge FPS increase, it was running on medium shaders and textures. My default performance was bad enough that I decided high settings were not sustainable except for screenshot purposes so backed down to medium. If you follow the link at the top of this post, you will see that even on medium on the ATI card I have, I only got a few extra FPS just changing the VBO settings. Still, anything that will help FPS will be useful.
Now all I want to know is WHAT these settings affect.
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Summer Fire
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Posted - 2009.03.14 11:47:00 -
[9]
Further to this I was playing with the above settings when the Map refused to load on pressing "F11". Instead I got a dialog box stating that it was "loading filters" After 60 secs I pressed ESC as it was not going anywhere. The interface seemed un-affected and I was able to play the game. The difference was that the FPS had shot up to 55. I even saw 110fps in some parts of the game. I have never seen frame rates like this on my iMac. Admittedly the map was no longer available but could this be part of the reason why some cards are so slow. Pre-loading graphics for instant use is in some way interfering with the rest of the general sloshing around of pixels. Just a thought. Playing the game at those rates was a very different , very pleasant experience.
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Emmet Yoder
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Posted - 2009.03.14 13:00:00 -
[10]
Just wanted to give a big thanks to all the people involved for posting this info. Saved me a lot of frustration.
I had significant performance boosts on my 15" macbook pro with an nvidia 8600M GT, and on an early 2008 mac pro with an ATI 2600HD. I have not tried this on a mac pro with an 8800GT, but will post a followup if there are any problems.
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.03.14 15:48:00 -
[11]
Glue applied.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email |
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tedivm
Flight of the Phoenix Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.14 17:06:00 -
[12]
These changes made such a huge difference for me. I'm now averaging between 45 and 60 frames per second, with peaks as high as 77fps and the lowest I've seen is 40fps (although the lower fps than OP is most likely due to the fact that I have a **** ton of programs open as well). Before making these changes I was trying to figure out if it was possible to upgrade my video card (I have the same setup as OP, except I have a bit more memory).
I know a lot of people who first get this game, especially if they aren't regular gamers (which, being mac users, is likely), will be turned off by the performance and are unlikely to immediately come into the forums, especially if they didn't buy the game yet and are just on a trial. This is especially disappointing considering how much better this client looks than the classic one- honestly, this game has reached whole new levels of sexy. CCP, you should consider making these changes the default for new installations, with the ability to edit them put into the regular graphics menu.
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.14 17:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: tedivm CCP, you should consider making these changes the default for new installations, with the ability to edit them put into the regular graphics menu.
Very bad idea. Those changes are very very system specific. On some systems they would prevent the game from playing or give worse performance instead of better.
The default setup is, and should be, such that all systems at least start up. And such that newer systems use all of their power even if older systems must resort to suboptimal software workaround. The fact that many current ATI cards do not natively support a lot of OpenGL extensions is not sufficient reason for not enabling them. nVidia cards support mosto of them. And future ATI cards will probably also support them.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones
apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
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Orontes Ovasi
Minmatar COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:39:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Orontes Ovasi on 14/03/2009 19:39:26 I was able to change: "dynamicvbo" = "N" "indexvbo" = "N" "fbo" = "N"
but couldn't find "fbobackbuffer" in the file anywhere.
I did get a jump (using Med/Med settings) from 25 to 30-40fps on my 2gig Ram mid-2007 duo 2.16 20"iMac with x1600ATI gfx card.
Wondered if anyone had else "trouble finding" the fbobackbuffer?
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: tedivm CCP, you should consider making these changes the default for new installations, with the ability to edit them put into the regular graphics menu.
Very bad idea. Those changes are very very system specific. On some systems they would prevent the game from playing or give worse performance instead of better.
The default setup is, and should be, such that all systems at least start up. And such that newer systems use all of their power even if older systems must resort to suboptimal software workaround. The fact that many current ATI cards do not natively support a lot of OpenGL extensions is not sufficient reason for not enabling them. nVidia cards support mosto of them. And future ATI cards will probably also support them.
This... except there will be no future ATI Cards in the Apple product line.
Apple has thrown them out... and for a very good reason.
From here on out they are strictly Nvidia or Intel GMA... unless you want to shell out hard cash for a Mac Pro.... most won't go that far.
The settings by default are specifically meant for current Macs... changing the defaults could cause a massive number of severe crashes and confusion.
Instead perhaps they should code a detection script that will adjust the settings if there happens to be an active ATI card present. That or include it in the patch notes. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Orontes Ovasi "fbobackbuffer" in the file anywhere.
[…]
Wondered if anyone had else "trouble finding" the fbobackbuffer?
It's not there by default, no, but you can just add it in the right section. Copypasta what's in the OP and make sure you stick it under the right heading. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Mac Tyer
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:30:00 -
[17]
Is that normal that i can see any fbbackbuffer in my config ?
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Fairhand
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.14 21:07:00 -
[18]
I think it is safe to ignore the fbobackbuffer setting - I must apologise but I think it appeared in my config file when I tried Caldari Citizen's original suggestion of enabling the Cider config menu. I will amend the top of this post accordingly.
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Fairhand
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.14 21:18:00 -
[19]
Summer Fire - did you get your map back? It is working fine for me... if not, try deleting the entire Eve Preferences folder - you will have to recreate your UI layout and re-edit the config file but you should get the map back for sure then.
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Summer Fire
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:38:00 -
[20]
Yes thank you Fairhand. That is an old routine for me. When things do not work right bin the Preferences file, with consequent hassles of re-applying any amendments. With the return of the map the system is back down to previous performance but still better than the original installation of Apocrypha.
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DigitalMaster
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Posted - 2009.03.15 17:34:00 -
[21]
Thanks guys, huge help. |
Taanu
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Posted - 2009.03.16 09:29:00 -
[22]
Lovely job...frps up from 15 to 90 on 2,4gzh 2600HD pro!!!!!!
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Kewagi Guiscard
Gallente November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:41:00 -
[23]
Wow... FPS up from 20(Medium Quality) to 65(High Quality) - THANK YOU SO MUCH! Have railgun, will travel. |
Akasun
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:46:00 -
[24]
fairhand, the fbobackbuffer option is used, and it has an effect on frame rate. in fact, your performance data already shows that. it is just not in the config file by default. it appears when you enable the display settings dialogue by setting displaysettingsdialog to 1 and use that to disable the FBO backing buffer. could you update the OP with this clarification to make things a little less confusing?
fyi, i'm running my laptop with the following setup to good effect (FBO = N causes it to graphically glitch even at medium): "dynamicvbo" = "N" "indexvbo" = "N" "fbo" = "Y" "fbobackbuffer" = "0"
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Ardoreal
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:05:00 -
[25]
I too posted a huge gain. I went from 20 fps with every setting at minimum (on 1920x1200) to 50-80 fps with everything at max except bloom.
24" iMac 2.8GHz CPU w/4GB RAM and 256mb ATI 2600HD
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Aviaden
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Posted - 2009.03.18 18:08:00 -
[26]
What does > 15fps get for you?
Mine runs at about that level and seems to be performing just fine.
Do your drones respond to commands faster? Your guns lock on target better? The jump gates jump you farther? What is the appeal of 40 fps versus 15 fps?
iMac; 24"; 2.8GHz; ATI HD2600; 4 GB RAM; Leopard 10.5.6
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Kasak Black
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kasak Black on 18/03/2009 20:46:35
Wow that's literally INSANE. From 30FPS with everything on LOW to 110fps with everything on LOW also. Resolution is 1280 X 800 (Windowed). I also have Firefox, iTunes, and MSN Messenger open. No adverse system slow down to be found at all. CPU is at about 50% to 70% load.
Running 20" iMac 2.4Ghz, ATi Radeon 2600 PRO 255MB, 4GB RAM.
Mental, absolutely mental. Thank you so much to all involved!!!
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Netherby
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Posted - 2009.03.19 06:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Netherby on 19/03/2009 06:49:54 Very interesting..
These settings are clearly controlling the use of VBOs (Vertex Buffer Objects), which greatly improve graphics performance on modern cards. Going by the names of the settings, I'm going to guess that:
"DynamicVBO" is toggling the use of GL_STATIC vs GL_DYNAMIC flag passed in the creation of the objects, WHY it is set at this level I'm not sure.. But a VBO created with the dynamic flag is much more likely to end up in the AGP memory or even system memory buffers, while a static VBO will almost always end up in video memory. Things in video memory render a LOT faster!
Perhaps it is simply turning off the ability to use dynamic VBOs and so they all end up as static and thus in video memory. (Which would mean what ever dynamic mesh effects are used won't be seen).
"IndexVBO" again helps decide what memory a VBO ends up in, indexed data generally ends up in AGP or system memory.. I'm not entirely sure WHY you would set vertex data to be indexed, so I can't imagine having this enabled causes that to happen.. But if it did, that would easily explain the fps boost..
"FBO" should be enabling the use of Frame Buffer Objects, which are to do with texturing (while VBO is to do with meshes). Disabling FBOs should actually reduce your FPS.. The fact that it provides a boost is slightly worrying regarding either cider or the eve client..
Of course this all may be completely incorrect.. Since I'm just guessing based off the setting names! :p
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Apple Boy
Gallente Corp 1 Allstars PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.03.19 07:41:00 -
[29]
shamelessly stolen from http://cedegawiki.sweetleafstudios.com/wiki/Cedega-5.0.2#Dynamic_VBO_.28Experimental.29. I know it's an old cedega version, but the details are still relevant, and transgaming is still saying the vbo stuff is experimental.
Quote: Dynamic VBO (Experimental)
This option enables an alternate approach to handling certain types of vertex data when using VBO. This has the potential to speed up certain graphics operations, but this depends upon the video drivers and may result in poor performance and/or graphical corruption. This option only takes effect if ARB_VBO is enabled and in use. This option is EXPERIMENTAL, and should be left disabled unless you find it helps a specific game.
Index VBO (Experimental)
This option enables index buffer information to be stored in faster AGP memory to improve data transfers to the graphics card. This option only takes effect if ARB_VBO is enabled and in use. However various graphics drivers still do not have fully functional support for these operations, and corrupt geometry and/or crashes may result. This option is EXPERIMENTAL, and should be left disabled unless you find it helps a specific game.
Frame Buffer Objects (Experimental)
Enables/Disables the use of framebuffer objects (FBO). FBO is a relatively new method of implementing render-to-texture functionality in OpenGL that has the potential for significant speed improvements. This feature is EXPERIMENTAL and should only be enabled for use with Battlefield 2.
ATI cards and VBO
The OpenGL VBO and VAR extensions are used to speed up geometry data transfer to and from a video card. On NVIDIA cards, the VAR extension is preferred, though VBO is available. On ATI cards with the FireGL drivers, only VBO is available. While VBO should work on ATI cards for most games, there are still a number of titles which may exhibit problems, both in terms of graphical corruption and performance. For these titles you may simply disable the VBO option.
I'm in agreement about FBO, it should help, not hurt.
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Netherby
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Posted - 2009.03.19 11:24:00 -
[30]
Seems kinda poor that these 'experimental' features were turned on the in the release client configuration when they clearly cause poorer performance :p
Dynamic and Indexed VBOs still end up in AGP memory rather than video memory, which is only useful for some objects..
Perhaps FBOs are slower because enabling them doesn't disable the regular texturing path, so you end up with both being applied..
Anyway these changes should really be hot patched, on my mac pro performance has gone from <20fps up to 80-100fps.. That's a very big difference!
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