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Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
194
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Posted - 2012.04.28 15:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
Is making monopoly money that important to you? |
Ethilia
Freelance Excavation and Resistance United Outworlders
13
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
The real life market if fixed by the rich. Eve's market is far closer to a 'free market'. |
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
48
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
For the same reason not many players want to be RL miners or outlaws.
And for real RL market and EVE market share some things but remain very different; one of the two is much more risky and hazardous than the other Short time trader, short term missionner, long term ambitions.
Bring justice to EVE:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1171333 |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
70
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars? It's not an either/or situation.
There are plenty of EVE players with RL wealth as well as EVE wealth and plenty of EVE market players who also trade in RL.
I'm well off enough in RL not to have to really work anymore, having made good money in the software industry during the early boom years. I'm happily semi-retired from that and find EVE provides a good amount of mental stimulation that I might not otherwise get from a life that is now dominated by social and domestic affairs. It's a good hobby.
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Is making monopoly money that important to you? No, it's not important at all. That's kind of the point.
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Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
256
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Posted - 2012.04.28 16:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
False premise.
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Llyandrian
Livestock Science Exchange
52
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
RL markets like EVE market are rigged in favour of the insiders, but in EVE we are the insiders. |
Flakey Foont
Republic University Minmatar Republic
108
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
Is making monopoly money that important to you?
Who says some don't do both?
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Dan Osiris
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
..can't.. stop... trading. must... make...fake... space.. currency... |
SileconBridgeBurner
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
EVE introduced me to detailed markets. It peaked my interest and I am actually now an Investment Assistant and going towards being a broker in a few years. |
tradingggg Sotken
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars? It's not an either/or situation. There are plenty of EVE players with RL wealth as well as EVE wealth and plenty of EVE market players who also trade in RL. I'm well off enough in RL not to have to really work anymore, having made good money in the software industry during the early boom years. I'm happily semi-retired from that and find EVE provides a good amount of mental stimulation that I might not otherwise get from a life that is now dominated by social and domestic affairs. It's a good hobby. Kaivar Lancer wrote:Is making monopoly money that important to you? No, it's not important at all. That's kind of the point.
That also means you're old :P |
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Tekota
The Freighter Factory
267
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
As for the comparison to real life market trading - it's bogus. Eve trading requires a primary school level of mathematic ability. Incidentally so does RL investment banking - the myth that it's much more complicated than, for example, brain surgery or rocket science, being perpetuated by investment bankers to justify pay packets orders of magnitude greater than far more useful individuals such as brain surgeons and rocket scientists.
Ahem. Nevertheless, Eve trading has as much similarity with RL trading as Eve mining has with RL mining.
As for why people do it - it's pixels on a screen, people like to see numbers go up. It's no different to a kill/death ratio. Games are ultimately pointless endeavours which provide entertainment and by providing a means to shoot other people in the face perhaps prevent us from becoming a serial killer in real life. And if Eve trading can prevent just one otherwise well adjusted individual from becoming an investment banker in real life then society as a whole can breath a sigh of relief. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
670
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Posted - 2012.04.28 19:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
Is making monopoly money that important to you?
EvE got me started at RL trading, now that I RL trade I also trade in the same way in EvE. Fun and win! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Liberty Eternal
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
64
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Posted - 2012.04.28 19:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Because I don't actually have 40 billion dollars in real life. |
Vandy ColdStone
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2012.04.29 00:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
Is making monopoly money that important to you?
Because I can't pick up 50 semi loads of 12G Buckshot from wal-mart in dallas, and resell for double profit at wal-mart in Miami.
Don't be mad because we have more isk. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1062
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Posted - 2012.04.29 00:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Why are Eve traders so obsessed with making ISK when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars? Not quite true.
RL markets are far, far more complex, for starters. Also, for RL economies, it's borderline impossible to accurately predict some future conditions which will affect them, whereas in EVE, you have devblogs and SiSi to tell you almost exactly that. And finally, because acquiring a significant "seed capital" in EVE is trivial, and the consequences of its total loss are minimal, but in RL it's pretty hard to get the capital and losing it all would be horrible.
IRL, give me some obligations-free cash and a way to predict some types of events that will happen in the near future, and I'll totally switch my RL job to a RL trader ! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T |
Nex apparatu5
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
272
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Posted - 2012.04.29 01:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
Is making monopoly money that important to you?
It's probably the same reason people who build spaceships in Eve don't build spaceships in real life. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
210
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Posted - 2012.04.29 02:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:Why are Eve traders so obsessed with making ISK when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars? Not quite true. RL markets are far, far more complex, for starters. Also, for RL economies, it's borderline impossible to accurately predict some future conditions which will affect them, whereas in EVE, you have devblogs and SiSi to tell you almost exactly that. And finally, because acquiring a significant "seed capital" in EVE is trivial, and the consequences of its total loss are minimal, but in RL it's pretty hard to get the capital and losing it all would be horrible. IRL, give me some obligations-free cash and a way to predict some types of events that will happen in the near future, and I'll totally switch my RL job to a RL trader !
Akita T with the best post in the thread. Now there's a rare sight. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
670
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Posted - 2012.04.29 06:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Akita T wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:Why are Eve traders so obsessed with making ISK when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars? Not quite true. RL markets are far, far more complex, for starters. Also, for RL economies, it's borderline impossible to accurately predict some future conditions which will affect them, whereas in EVE, you have devblogs and SiSi to tell you almost exactly that. And finally, because acquiring a significant "seed capital" in EVE is trivial, and the consequences of its total loss are minimal, but in RL it's pretty hard to get the capital and losing it all would be horrible. IRL, give me some obligations-free cash and a way to predict some types of events that will happen in the near future, and I'll totally switch my RL job to a RL trader ! Akita T with the best post in the thread. Now there's a rare sight.
Yet it's not entirely correct.
In RL only some huge institutions (those that actually make the markets) have to deal with and analyze those grand and ever changing market equilibrium causes. The have both the money and the economists to do so and can also adjust the markets when they are not completely right.
RL pit traders (those left) piggy back on large institutions orders they themselves deal. Others do heavy arbitrage (manual or with high frequency trading), which is more of an automated tool than real "economy analysis" based trading.
All the others don't need all of the complexity. Sure, from 81% to 95% (the numbers change across years and nations (the least losers seem to be in Germany) and who knows how much comes from real statistics) lose their neck over the markets, but the rest gain money without needing to know what's going on. Price talks and leaves tips about where it might go next. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Johnny Frecko
Fruidian Logic
18
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Posted - 2012.04.29 08:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
VV the funny thing is that if you take the average ratio of return(in %), all those huge hedge funds and trust funds and insurance companies havn't made any profit, well, not anything higher than the actual market changes.
In the long run(10-15 years), even those who are paid to predict, with the a sea of people and comuters, fail to provide a real expectency for profit, and provide only market profit. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
138
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Posted - 2012.04.29 16:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
Is making monopoly money that important to you?
You need to go out more ... Real life market moneymaking is quiiiiite different then EVE stuff.
I mean really ... wake up |
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Trader Kiai
Jack of all skills Endgame Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2012.04.29 16:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
eve is a Trade simulation game haha Here's how I think of my money -- as soldiers -- I send them out to war everyday. I want them to take prisoners and come home, so there's more of them." - Kevin O'Leary/Shark Tank (TV series)
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Darth Snuggles
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.29 18:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:... when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars?
Is making monopoly money that important to you?
Taking risk in ISK = zero risk IRL
Taking risk in actual markets = risk IRL
It is not that hard to comprehend. |
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
443
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Posted - 2012.04.29 18:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
I need a large quantity of isk directly proportional the the size of my *****. Thus I need a lot of isk. Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
Bifordus Maximus
MissoCorp
5
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Posted - 2012.04.29 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm pretty sure im off topic, but its because of the the way eve market works that I learned how to make things work in my favor when selling things on ebay and amazon. And some of the things I learned while working with ebay and amazon have helped me on eve. |
Agamenox
Yanomami's Space Pilots Persona Non Gratis
0
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Posted - 2012.04.30 06:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Because they are not Filantropist |
cuoredipietra famedoro
The Cognitive Faction Permanent Transience
3
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Posted - 2012.04.30 10:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
It is not the possession of ISK that drives me, rather the satisfaction of discovering new ways of doing something and doing it good.
If you look it this way, making ISK is just part of a process and a measure of your progression.
I wonder how many MD fellows share the same feeling.
Caeci caecos ducentes-á |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
672
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Posted - 2012.04.30 11:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Johnny Frecko wrote:VV the funny thing is that if you take the average ratio of return(in %), all those huge hedge funds and trust funds and insurance companies havn't made any profit, well, not anything higher than the actual market changes.
In the long run(10-15 years), even those who are paid to predict, with the a sea of people and comuters, fail to provide a real expectency for profit, and provide only market profit.
They are not meant to beat the market to begin with. Sure, the small fries are sold the "good investment" thing but in reality these funds and insurances are only to park money in a somewhat better way than leaving them rot in a bank. Most people are TOTALLY risk averse, they would never accept a fund stating they have 40% chance to lose money instead of gaining it. Hedge funds (they are closed funds) are where to look for more profits, but in those there's also real risk.
Some hedge funds try and sell some exotic ways (see the past massive failures).
Others work, but you won't have access to them. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
29
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Posted - 2012.04.30 12:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
We are not obsessed.. The isk must flow. The sleepers have awakened.. Now get back to buying my stuff. |
Pinstar Colton
New Lunar Republic Special Tactics Squadron
8
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Posted - 2012.04.30 12:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
As a RL father of a 22 month old and 1 month old child, my EVE play time is very frequently interrupted. This means engaging in Nullsec fleet battles, lowsec small gang PVP or even high sec Security missions or incursions is iffy due to the possibility of needing to go AFK at a moment's notice.
What does that leave? Mining and trading. And since it's Hulkageddon season, Mining is temporarily off the table.
That being said, I'm having a blast in EVE. My college degree is in business management. My job, despite the fact that it is in a white collar business, requires painfully low amounts of thought. EVE keeps my mind sharp. Not to mention trading lets me play for free. After only buying 3 months of play time, I have enough for about 2 1/2 PLEXes and still have a month of my original purchase to go. My income at this point is such that I'll be able to play for free going forward.
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Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
261
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Posted - 2012.04.30 12:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:This means engaging in Nullsec fleet battles, lowsec small gang PVP or even high sec Security missions or incursions is iffy due to the possibility of needing to go AFK at a moment's notice.
That's a big part of it for me. Eve right now is something I play for 5-10 minutes 4-5 times a day when I'm ready to just claw my eyes out from working all day. I really love this game for that flexibility. If I didn't play Eve, I doubt I'd play anything.
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Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
64
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Posted - 2012.04.30 13:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
cuoredipietra famedoro wrote:It is not the possession of ISK that drives me, rather the satisfaction of discovering new ways of doing something and doing it good.
If you look it this way, making ISK is just part of a process and a measure of your progression.
I wonder how many MD fellows share the same feeling.
I share this exactly. I've been playing video games for the past 18+ years now. I've done my fair share of PvP back in Quake/Counter-Strike/etc. The Eve market is something new an exciting to me. Every week I learn something new that makes me think differently about my world. |
Rhivre
TarNec
0
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Posted - 2012.04.30 23:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
I am meh about isk....I just enjoy chatting while flipping stuff on the market.
Whether it is for 100 isk, or 100m isk makes little difference, as long as my wallet moves in the up direction every day it doesnt matter.
I think most people in eve are interested in making isk, otherwise you would not see "WTF, my income from (insert activity) just got cut"
Why dont I do other more profitable stuff? Because I find it boring. I would not do missions or incursions even if the income was 10bn an hour.
I do not do pvp because I am not able to anymore, I have never got into mining or industry properly, but the one thing I really love doing in eve is providing items on the market, and moving the prices so that manufacturers can sell to buy orders without them being ripped off too much.
I probably have less isk across my traders than most mission runners have after 6 months, but then, wtf would I spend it on? |
Lithalnas
Privateers Privateer Alliance
114
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Posted - 2012.04.30 23:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
As a counterpoint to those saying eve is not like real life, I actually find it is from a manufacturing and supply chain point of view. For instance: I build fuel blocks in jita. I need to determine build order size as well as what combination of 4 types of blocks I need. In real life this is BUS 280 Supply Chain management.
Basically I am taking raw materials, which i have acquired in the quantities I need in accordance with LEAN production standard, only a day or two before I actually need them. I then produce them with my magical factory minions who have 0 standard deviation in production time and then sell those blocks. If I did my forecasting right I should sell the blocks in the planned 2 day period. If I do it right a blocks time in the system is about 5 days. If I do it wrong it could be as much as having inventory or cash for 5 days after the blocks go on the market. That means a block is in the system for 6 - 8 days which is a loss of 20 - 60% in possible profits.
GO LEAN Privateer Alliance, rebuilding a not so safe High Sec.-á
Want to assist in this endevor? (contract wars, corp/pilot recrutment) Contact one of our directors. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
71
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Posted - 2012.05.01 00:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Why do people keep score in any games ?
Many ISK accumulators set other goals for themselves beyond the total value (i.e rate of return, month over month personal bests, isk per hour earned trading )
Still, while not the only goal, we all like seeing a "score" in many games.. cards or pinball or whatever.
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Realityfirst
Hemorrhagic Visions R.E.P.O.
4
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Posted - 2012.05.01 02:59:00 -
[35] - Quote
I trade in EVE because I like trading but Im not sure, enough, of my self to spend RL money on RL trading |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
676
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Posted - 2012.05.01 05:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Realityfirst wrote:I trade in EVE because I like trading but Im not sure, enough, of my self to spend RL money on RL trading
You took the right decision, the majority of traders consistently lose. Risking game money is way less stressful losing game money is less depressing than in RL.
Moreover, most EvE traders are 0.01 ISK traders or regional arbitrators. Both of the corresponding RL trading strategies (scalping and arbitraging) have been heavily neutered by high frequency trading super computers. You'd be in a world of hurt trying that in RL. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Tri Yson
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.01 22:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Because eve markets are interestingly complex for a video game, but a far cry from open markets in the real world. |
Tri Yson
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.01 22:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Realityfirst wrote:I trade in EVE because I like trading but Im not sure, enough, of my self to spend RL money on RL trading Paper trade then. Go hit up one of the forex bucketshops, and download MT4 and have a play. No dough, no risk.
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Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
174
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Posted - 2012.05.02 09:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:Why are Eve traders so obsessed with making ISK when you can put the same effort into studying RL markets and make real life dollars? Not quite true. RL markets are far, far more complex, for starters. Also, for RL economies, it's borderline impossible to accurately predict some future conditions which will affect them, whereas in EVE, you have devblogs and SiSi to tell you almost exactly that. And finally, because acquiring a significant "seed capital" in EVE is trivial, and the consequences of its total loss are minimal, but in RL it's pretty hard to get the capital and losing it all would be horrible. IRL, give me some obligations-free cash and a way to predict some types of events that will happen in the near future, and I'll totally switch my RL job to a RL trader !
EVE = easy gratification for RL failures who are too "sophisticated" to feel gratified from wow type mechanics. |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
174
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Posted - 2012.05.02 09:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tri Yson wrote:Realityfirst wrote:I trade in EVE because I like trading but Im not sure, enough, of my self to spend RL money on RL trading Paper trade then. Go hit up one of the forex bucketshops, and download MT4 and have a play. No dough, no risk.
You'll never know if they are feeding you a bogus feed that gives you a wrong impression that you can make money. I compared multiple feeds from multiple FOREX brokers and the spreads were all over the place. |
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