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Absolom Hues
Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 ..... if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk
Why sure you would train past level 1, because you can not salvage tech II wrecks under skill level 3. Other than speed, there is no need to train above level 3 ___
Quote from Karrade Krise concerning stealth bombers:
"I felt a disturbance in the Expansion...it was as if millions of people /facepalmed....and were suddenly Nerfed."
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Absolom Hues
Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 ..... if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk
Why sure you would train past level 1, because you can not salvage tech II wrecks under skill level 3. Other than speed, there is no need to train above level 3
Umm, but speed is ALL important, at least when it comes to PvE salvaging.
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Forumz Warrior
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:17:00 -
[33]
Even in PVP speed is important. Gang is not going to sit and wait while you salvage t2 hulls
Level 4 is a reasonable train. My utility char has had it to 5 for a long time, so the t2 salvagers were a welcome addition.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:08:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Whitehound on 16/03/2009 22:09:36
Originally by: Ch1pmunk lol everyone is saying all the salvage mods and skills do is let u salvage faster..... if this is tru... there is no point in training the skill to lvl 5... and no point in buying the rigs.... and no point in t2....
all u need is 4-6 T1s and it all works out the same.
of course... this is false.
Thanks. I was under the same impression that there is a bit more complexity to it than just speed and that one gets a bit more out of it the higher the level gets.
One actually needs salvaging at level 3 to salvage a wreck of a faction ship and that is not even in the skill's description. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
ServantOfMask
Minmatar The New Order. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:19:00 -
[35]
Edited by: ServantOfMask on 17/03/2009 11:20:04 /sigh
the ONLY thing salvage Skill, Salvager Modules and Salvage Rigs do is increase your odds of successfully accessing (ie. salvaging) a wreck. they DO NOT, let me repeat that, DO NOT increase the Yield of salvaged components you get out of a wreck.
did everyone who was hazy on the subject get that?
Yield is random! Every ship spawns a certain wreck or type of wreck (i don't own the database so i cant be certain which), which has a loot table attached, the game chooses randomly from that loot table once you successfully salvage a wreck.
i speak out of 2yrs or so of experience, having salvaged my lvl 3 and 4 missions, Faction spawns, T2 wrecks since day 1 of salvaging being introduced.
and just for kicks, TII wrecks used to require Salvaging Lvl 4 originally same as faction wrecks, that has been lowered to 3. i do however use a catalyst with 3 salvage tackle rigs because it makes everything a 1 cycle salvage with T1 salvagers, yes even TII. Personally i dont see the point in TII's unless you cant/wont rig but want a slightly faster success and move on to the next wreck.
Fly Safe
edit: i wish it did increase yield too, but that is still a pipedream until ccp patches and makes me a liar out of spite
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.03.17 11:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ch1pmunk Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58 lol everyone is saying all the salvage mods and skills do is let u salvage faster..... if this is tru... there is no point in training the skill to lvl 5... and no point in buying the rigs.... and no point in t2....
all u need is 4-6 T1s and it all works out the same.
of course... this is false. a character with lvl 1 salvage skill will never get the same amount of salvage as the guy with salvage lvl 5. also, adding salvage rigs will give you just a lil more salvage. and then, adding t2 salvagers will raise it just a lil more.
what u get is a dice role. how much u get is a dice role, but the % makes the odds much much better. the t2 also makes he mods a lil faster. of course it does. time of activation is listed in description.
if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
If you have 4-6 T1 salvagers then you're (partially) right, there is 'little' reason to train past level 3 (needed to salvage elite wrecks). However many people only have 1-2 salvagers, in which case being able to salvage twice as fast means they get to either free up a slot or two or salvage twice as much in the same time. Even though the per WRECK yield is the same, the per HOUR yield will be higher, regardless.
This is rather like you saying that since mining skills increase the yield you get, they're pointless because it doesn't give you better ore.
The salvage is all pre determined along with the loot when the wreck is created, it's an attribute of that wreck and generated from the loot table.
The dice roll you get when you salvage, is simply one to determine if this attempt is successful. The dice roll you get to determine the amount of salvage is rolled when the wreck is generated.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.03.17 12:22:00 -
[37]
It took me twelve minutes to salvage a Shadow Serp cruiser wreck with a single Salvager I and Salvage IV with my little unrigged plex runner Hawk. Yep, twelve minutes. I killed it first and started my Salvager on it while I killed the rest of the stuff then sat around for another ten minutes waiting. I'll get that Salvager II eventually
Originally by: Wet Ferret What I don't get is how "5% increase in chance of salvage retrieval per level." equates to 100% bonus to Salvager module effectiveness. Where, exactly, does the 5% from the skill come into play?
But can someone answer this? Or is it just a mystery to everyone...
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.17 13:03:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/03/2009 13:02:44
Originally by: Wet Ferret
But can someone answer this? Or is it just a mystery to everyone...
JCache already told us in post #10 how it works, and so we could deduce that the skill desciption, as is not uncommon, is misleading, at best.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: ServantOfMask Yield is random!
And that is where you are wrong. Take it from me - I studied mathematics - and there is not just one single form of randomness. You probably know it and might just have forgotten about the distribution of a random event. The salvaged materials are then not evenly distributed but some drop more often than others. After two years of salvaging, as you say, will you be salvaging with the same level in salvaging most of the time, which is why the yield appears uniformly random to you. I just recently increased my level from 2 to 3 and I do seem to get a bit more out of the wrecks now. The randomness just makes it very difficult to come up with solid proof. To bring solid proof does it take a statistical analysis and not another pointless argument. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.17 14:52:00 -
[40]
I personally think there is more to it than meets the eye... I reckon that per salvager, chance to salvage is higher on an un-rigged Marauder than it is say for a rigged out salvage destroyer.
Personally I will be buying T2 Salvagers, if only so I can drop a salvager for a tractor beam.
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Absolom Hues
Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: ServantOfMask Yield is random!
.... I just recently increased my level from 2 to 3 and I do seem to get a bit more out of the wrecks now.... Quote:
You are arguing aginst ServantOfMask explanation about it being random, but all you can offer is that you "seem to get a bit more"? I suggest you train from level 3 to 5 and see if you get 3 times that "bit" more, whatever that means. ___
Quote from Karrade Krise concerning stealth bombers:
"I felt a disturbance in the Expansion...it was as if millions of people /facepalmed....and were suddenly Nerfed."
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:13:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Absolom Hues You are arguing aginst ServantOfMask explanation about it being random, but all you can offer is that you "seem to get a bit more"? I suggest you train from level 3 to 5 and see if you get 3 times that "bit" more, whatever that means.
*lol* No, I am not arguing. I think it is pointless to argue. You seem to have missed that part completely.
One question, however, remains. What makes you think that going from 3 to 5 could increase the yield by 300%? I cannot wait to see your response! -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Ch1pmunk
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:54:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 17/03/2009 15:54:20 ROFL!!!!
ok
if anyone who is not a noob and actually has salvage lvl 5 wants to see if u get more salvage with the rigs and salvager 2, then try this:
salvage 10-20 lvl 2 missions with a T1 unrigged ship(because lvl 2 is quick and has more ships than lvl) note the number of ships.
then salvage 10-20 more (whatever number u used with the first test) with a dedicated salvage vessel, u know 2 tractor beams 4-6 salvager 2 and 3 salvage rigs.
now.... since u used 10-20 missions and noted the number of ships, u can do averages (u learned it in grade 5 i believe?)
now, disregarding the time it took to salvage (not refuting its quicker in a dedicated ship) did it actually yield more salvage with either setup? or was it around the same? PLEASE! NO MORE AGREE OR DISAGREE POST TIL ONE OF U ACTUALLY RUN A TEST!!! the least u could do is know what u r talking about
lol
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ch1pmunk PLEASE! NO MORE AGREE OR DISAGREE POST TIL ONE OF U ACTUALLY RUN A TEST!!! the least u could do is know what u r talking about lol
Those tests were done when salvage was introduced. No improvement in salvage by raising the skill, using the implant and/or the rig. Devs back then confirmed it only helps you opening the "box" and does not influence the contents.
Having said this, I know full well the conspiracy theorists will not let this issue lie and add a couple more pages to this thread and to new ones in the future each time someone asks how the salvage skill works.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Ch1pmunk
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:13:00 -
[45]
wow... someone who didnt do any work for themselves.... commenting on something they heard from someone who hard.... that some devs did something.... wow....
stuff has changed (if what u think is true.. is...). i did run some test. 6 months ago i did run many lvl 2s(raising standings) and salvaged then with a normal ship and then did the same with my salvage ship.... there was alot more salvage from my salvage ship... than there was from my other ship.... i havent done this with the t2 salvagers yet, but i am going to as soon as i get the time.
would someone who actually knows how to list results run this test? if nothing else, its a good way to raise ur standings with a new company.
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Amarrian Alt
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:26:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Whitehound
Take it from me - I studied mathematics - and there is not just one single form of randomness.
What about Quantum mechanics?
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Karc Thule
Minmatar Mine-X
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:34:00 -
[47]
Dis ridiculous!
New salvager doesn't give more salvage per wreck, just better. Like 50 trit bars last I checked. Test it yerself. I wouldn't have spent the time and money getting T2 if dis not true!
No seriously, I'd love to see some evidence (against the word of the devs). Ch1pmunk, I'd like to modify your test so the results are verifiable. Saying you made 5 mil doing 15 lvl 2's still leaves a ton of variables and room for dispute. What we are really looking for is, market conditions being equal, isk per wreck.
Some better results might be in the following form: Salvaged 20 wrecks of [Specific Ship]. With Rigs/T2: 10 [Salvage Item] 8 [Salvage Item] 15 [Salvage Item]
Without Rigs/T2: 11 [Salvage Item] 8 [Salvage Item] 13 [Salvage Item]
With Rigs/T2 Value: 10.32 mil Without Rigs/T2 Value: 10.21 mil (All items sold at the same price respectively.) _________________________________________ "I am the astronaut of boxing." -Muhammad Ali
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:13:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Whitehound on 17/03/2009 18:14:20
Originally by: Amarrian Alt What about Quantum mechanics?
*lol* Go ahead, ... and apply quantum mechanics to salvaging!!!!! -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Absolom Hues
Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Whitehound
One question, however, remains. What makes you think that going from 3 to 5 could increase the yield to 300%? I cannot wait to see your response!
First I never said going form level 3 to 5 would give 300% increase in salvage. But if you insist on an explanation:
S2 = salvage amount at level 2 skill b = "bit" you described in your original conversation.
After you trained to level 3 skill your formula looks like this: s2 + b = new salvage amount.
If this is true, then wouldn't the new formula look something like this for level 5 skill?
s2 + (b * 3) = new salvage amount
Thus the 3 * "bit" statement I made earlier should be quantifiable if your experience is true. Never-the-less I believe all the skill does is increase your salvage speed... and not the quantity salvaged.
___
Quote from Karrade Krise concerning stealth bombers:
"I felt a disturbance in the Expansion...it was as if millions of people /facepalmed....and were suddenly Nerfed."
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Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:31:00 -
[50]
This thread is absolutely hilarious. People, your ignorance is showing.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:33:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Whitehound on 17/03/2009 18:33:36
Originally by: Absolom Hues But if you insist on an explanation:
No, I was not insisting on an explanation. I already knew that you got me wrong and was only joking. Our problem right now is that we need someone who can bring facts. Someone who is about to train salvaging to the next level and is willing to do an analysis. We all have our little beliefs. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Titan Industries Technology Team
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Posted - 2009.03.18 04:47:00 -
[52]
Edited by: FT Diomedes on 18/03/2009 04:47:56 The level of stupidity in this thread has me thinking someone is trolling. It is well-known, and I have tested it extensively over the years, that increasing your salvaging skill (access difficulty bonus) does not increase the amount of salvage you get, it only makes it easier to access what is in the wreck.
Perhaps you could study the wreck salvaging database (search for it) and see for yourself the compiled results of thousands of mission runners. Each mission generally drops the same amount of salvage on average, regardless of the skill of the person salvaging it. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.03.18 09:10:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ch1pmunk wow... someone who didnt do any work for themselves.... commenting on something they heard from someone who hard.... that some devs did something.... wow....
Nope. Didn't hear any of it. Read the posted results. Read the dev replies. With my own two eyes.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Glarion Garnier
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.03.18 09:15:00 -
[54]
Tech 2 should increase the range to 6500 - 7500 IMO. 6000 is bit on the low side. _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:22:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Whitehound on 18/03/2009 10:26:33
Originally by: FT Diomedes Edited by: FT Diomedes on 18/03/2009 04:47:56 The level of stupidity in this thread has me thinking someone is trolling. ...
Perhaps you could study the wreck salvaging database ...
*lol* When do you people stop making funny comments? You are confusing stupid with persistent and only to insult others, you know? Most people who have read this thread will not even search for this database because of the way you present this bit of information. And thanks for the info on the wreck salvage database. It lists each count of wreckage material for each mission of EVE. That is some serious detail! However, because of this high amount of detail is the survey lacking in representative numbers. It is useless at this stage. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:30:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Benco97 on 18/03/2009 10:31:20 Whitehound, this has all been covered in the past and the results were that salvage yield is not altered by respective skill levels.
You are free to continue to think that it does but please tone down the tantrum if you won't accept that you are wrong. Nobody cares that you're wrong, you'll not lose face or become less popular for admitting it, actually, a man who can admit his mistakes and learn from them is a good man in my opinion.
I know I've presented no factual evidence to back up what I'm writing but I can assure you that the others and myself are correct on this issue, I have no reason to lie to you and as I said earlier, all these tests have been performed in the past by people far more competent than I.
In the end though, who really cares?
Edited for idiocy
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.18 10:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Benco97 Whitehound, ...
What? I suggest you leave the thread. It does not seem to interest you. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.18 11:10:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 18/03/2009 10:48:42 What? I suggest you leave the thread. It does not seem to interest you.
You fail to understand people's comments, you call them ignorant and rather like to believe that it all has been covered in the past. Where is there room for new evidence? You do not leave any. Just stop writing comments and only read the thread to see if any new information comes up.
It has all been covered before though, it's hardly our fault that you didn't see it the first or second time it was brought up. You're right though, I'll take your advice and leave this thread to it's meanderings, It's not my job to educate.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:38:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Whitehound Where is there room for new evidence?
Personal experience with current salvage and lack of salvage related posts on these forums are a clear indication nothing has changed since the initial tests. Therefore, there is no room needed for new evidence.
Second we've got tired of posting all the relevant links to the proof 3,529 salvage threads ago.
In closing: Where is your evidence, your proof that it has changed? All you're offering is a gut feeling.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2009.03.18 16:20:00 -
[60]
Chipmunk and Whitehound are apparently both fitted with full racks of "Forum Self-Pwner II." -------- [ |
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