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Adrien Angeldust
Caldari Colonizing and Terraforming of Planets R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 12:28:00 -
[1]
When i was getting over 1k dmg per each cruise missile from sleeper's BS i got an idea of using defender missiles to reduce incoming dps. If sleepers cruises have same HP as normal cruises 1 defender should be able to pop 1 cruise missile without problems. I prefer to stay alive with less DPS than be almost instapopped by their missiles. Did anyone tried to fit defender missiles against them ?
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.03.15 13:22:00 -
[2]
Havnt tried yet. If you do it, use a rocket launcher II
Terianna Eri > :( i wish i were as good a forum ***** as karrade
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Argendta
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Posted - 2009.03.15 13:37:00 -
[3]
Haven't tried yet. I'm gonna try it next time.
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Uzume Ame
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Posted - 2009.03.15 13:39:00 -
[4]
The problem with defenders is: 1) They only protect you, not the gang (only destroy missiles that are targetting you) 2) They only destroy so many missiles, so if the number of missiles is high, usually is worth more DPS to kill them faster
That say, if you're running solo and the small signatures with not a load of these guys (which in any case, usually do not blob as much as crapp old npcs), it may be worth it. But if you're in a gang, is like monster tank drakes: don't help anybody but yourself, so you're better fitting a remote repairer or more dps.
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Argendta
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Posted - 2009.03.15 13:59:00 -
[5]
Are they? I've heard the rumors that, at some point of time, CCP was going to re-do the defenders in such a way so that, say, a caracal with all defenders could defend the whole fleet. Have no idea how it worked out, just rumors.
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Seetesh
Caldari Warped Mining Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.03.15 14:00:00 -
[6]
Try a smartbomb they work better.
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Adrien Angeldust
Caldari Colonizing and Terraforming of Planets R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 14:48:00 -
[7]
I am flying in passive tanked drake fully T2 fitted. I was able to tank sleepers without any problem, but when BS's showed up i had serious problems. One BS and my shield regen stopped at 50%, but when second BS showed up i was warping out with 30% structure. Lasers from BS were not a problem but those bloody missiles from them were hitting me for 1k each, so if i reduce incoming DPS by defenders i can tank it without problems. But is one defender capable to destroy one cruise by one hit ? Normal cruises can be shot by 1 defender (torps need 2 defenders). I cant use smartbombs on passive tanked drake, it will suck my cap dry.
I know that defenders protects only me, but thats exactly what i need :)
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Argendta
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Posted - 2009.03.16 09:53:00 -
[8]
Tried today. Defenders doesn't really work against sleepers' battleship's missiles. Even if they hit them (which is not often), single defender doesn't destroy the missile. Alas.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.03.16 12:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Argendta Tried today. Defenders doesn't really work against sleepers' battleship's missiles. Even if they hit them (which is not often), single defender doesn't destroy the missile. Alas.
That means that they are using grouped launchers. When launchers are grouped all mille hp in group is pooled together resulting in 'cruise missiles' that can't be killed by single defender. However if they are grouped then defenders still lower the damage you would be taking a bit, as missile grup will do x % damage from it's max damage, where x is remaining precentage of it's total hp.
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RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:03:00 -
[10]
I'm at work so I can't try it out but : Is it possible to group defenders?
If you fit 2-3 rocket launchers they should be able to mitigate some damage right?
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:59:00 -
[11]
I went in a scorp for our corps venture into W-space.. We had an rr gang with 2 domis and a geddon. Then the scorp and a gaurdian.. The scorp fitting was
highs.... 4 assault launchers 2x's duel 150 t2 mids..... 4 multis, 2 trac disrptors, 2 painters lows..... 1600, t2 adapated nano plate, t2 harder, expl and a damage controll
Scorps job ( as primary most of the time was to soak up dps and diminsh the sleepers DPS when possible )
end result??... IMO, it worked great, with enough range, it took out all missiles intended for itsself when I activated the defender launchers (sucks ass that it doesnt stay on tho.. BAD). Being able to jam the 2 bs we had took their dps away totally, putting the 2 disruptors on them also made a big difference when I lost jams. Defenders definatly help reduce the massive dps they can throw at you, but defenders need some lovin bigtime IMO. Once you activate the launcher it should stay on untill u turn it off and launch when a m issile is launched at you, but... If you spam the launch button you'll get the desired result as well..
All in all Im very happy with my ew platform and this setup. 2 in a gang would be Really nice, they can pretty much switch to light missiles and take out all the frigs while still jamming and disrupting the big guys..
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Vhiskey
Caldari Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:47:00 -
[12]
what damage types do sleepers do?
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2009.03.16 21:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vhiskey what damage types do sleepers do?
omni..
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Vhiskey
Caldari Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: JVol
Originally by: Vhiskey what damage types do sleepers do?
omni..
all types with the same amount?
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RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.17 07:35:00 -
[15]
I heard it was EM/thermal for the laser and explosive/kinetic for the missles but I can't confirm
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Tolsimir Wolfblood
Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.03.17 08:12:00 -
[16]
ok this is what you need.
15-20 armor buffered BS. They need 2 large remote repps, cap boosters and a ity V cloaked some were with cargo hold filled with 800s, and a cov ops.
Have fun
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2009.03.18 17:12:00 -
[17]
Edited by: JVol on 18/03/2009 17:13:28
Originally by: JVol I went in a scorp for our corps venture into W-space.. We had an rr gang with 2 domis and a geddon. Then the scorp and a gaurdian.. The scorp fitting was
highs.... 4 assault launchers 2x's duel 150 t2 mids..... 4 multis, 2 trac disrptors, 2 painters lows..... 1600, t2 adapated nano plate, t2 harder, expl and a damage controll
Scorps job ( as primary most of the time was to soak up dps and diminsh the sleepers DPS when possible )
end result??... IMO, it worked great, with enough range, it took out all missiles intended for itsself when I activated the defender launchers (sucks ass that it doesnt stay on tho.. BAD). Being able to jam the 2 bs we had took their dps away totally, putting the 2 disruptors on them also made a big difference when I lost jams. Defenders definatly help reduce the massive dps they can throw at you, but defenders need some lovin bigtime IMO. Once you activate the launcher it should stay on untill u turn it off and launch when a m issile is launched at you, but... If you spam the launch button you'll get the desired result as well..
All in all Im very happy with my ew platform and this setup. 2 in a gang would be Really nice, they can pretty much switch to light missiles and take out all the frigs while still jamming and disrupting the big guys..
Went in again this time without the scorp , but the same basic crew as before (2 gaurdians instead if one and the scorp). It was much more difficult, bottom line is, this ship REALLY helped lessen the dps the sleepers throw down. Its a great frig killer and even when it miss's the jamms, the weapon disruptors made a very noticable difference imo.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Uzume Ame The problem with defenders is: 1) They only protect you, not the gang (only destroy missiles that are targetting you)
I am not so sure of that, some time ago I did a test where a friend was firing missiles at a secure can and I had a assault launcher loaded with defenders.
My defender were intercepting the missiles without problems.
So apparently defenders can intercept any missile fired by the target ship.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.18 20:41:00 -
[19]
Remember, rocket launchers can fit and spit out defenders quite quickly. Anyone tried using a spare hislot for this purpose?
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Uzume Ame The problem with defenders is: 1) They only protect you, not the gang (only destroy missiles that are targetting you)
I am not so sure of that, some time ago I did a test where a friend was firing missiles at a secure can and I had a assault launcher loaded with defenders.
My defender were intercepting the missiles without problems.
So apparently defenders can intercept any missile fired by the target ship.
Chances are he did something to you within 15 minutes that had him agro to you, your defenders would kill his missiles then, but not with NO agro on his part at some time towards you..
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Skulldara
Gallente PRO Space Hunters HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD
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Posted - 2009.03.18 21:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Adrien Angeldust I cant use smartbombs on passive tanked drake, it will suck my cap dry and hardeners will turn off
Just wanted to point out that shield hardeners are considered an active shield tank as they use capacitor.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.19 12:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: JVol
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Uzume Ame The problem with defenders is: 1) They only protect you, not the gang (only destroy missiles that are targetting you)
I am not so sure of that, some time ago I did a test where a friend was firing missiles at a secure can and I had a assault launcher loaded with defenders.
My defender were intercepting the missiles without problems.
So apparently defenders can intercept any missile fired by the target ship.
Chances are he did something to you within 15 minutes that had him agro to you, your defenders would kill his missiles then, but not with NO agro on his part at some time towards you..
We are not speaking about FOF but about defender missiles.
Defender missiles are targeted.
Even hypnotizing that your comment is valid NPC have automatically agro, so it should work the same.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.03.19 12:49:00 -
[23]
Skulldara said ôJust wanted to point out that shield hardeners are considered an active shield tank as they use capacitor.ö ThatÆs wrong. What next, using Invulnerability Fields mean youÆre no longer a passive tank!!! A passive tank is one where you heal passively without draining cap. If your shields regen without cap then youÆre a passive tank. Passive tanks can use active hardeners and other active modules.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.19 18:00:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 19/03/2009 18:00:42
Originally by: Skulldara
Originally by: Adrien Angeldust I cant use smartbombs on passive tanked drake, it will suck my cap dry and hardeners will turn off
Just wanted to point out that shield hardeners are considered an active shield tank as they use capacitor.
No, passive versus active are differentiated by whether or not the tank uses a shield booster. Passive shield hardeners are total fail on both 98% of the time.
/edit: doh, not sure how i missed pottsey's reply :p |
BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.19 18:22:00 -
[25]
One note read the description on every rocket launcher, they can use/fire defender missiles.
Rocket Launchers have a fast reload time than any other launcher.
Assault Missile Launcher II's have a rate of fire of 9.6 seconds.
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, has a rate of fire of 3.20 seconds as does the Rocket Launcher II. Three times faster than a Assault Launcher.
With the correct skills, mods and rigs it is possible to have a rate of fire of less than a second.
Also rocket launchers are way cheaper than missile launchers. Defender Missiles are usually reprocessed or trashed. So getting them cheap is a easy option.
Mount 4+ of these rocket launchers with Defender Missiles, and see the results against the Sleeper missile swarms. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.03.19 18:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: BlindBleu
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, has a rate of fire of 3.20 seconds as does the Rocket Launcher II. Three times faster than a Assault Launcher.
And holds 13 defenders. You will spend as much time reloading as you will firing. Nevermind how many of these will be overkill, since you can only fire at the closest incoming missile. If sleepers are using grouped missiles as has been hinted at, then there's no way to predict how many defenders will be needed to take it down so you can't "cheat" and only use as many as you need.
As opposed to the Assault launcher which holds 80 defenders. While firing slower, it has a lot more uptime... if you can take out a missile before it reaches you then it's doing it's job anyway.
Of course real testing will need to be done to figure out which is better.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2009.03.19 19:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: BlindBleu One note read the description on every rocket launcher, they can use/fire defender missiles.
Rocket Launchers have a fast reload time than any other launcher.
Assault Missile Launcher II's have a rate of fire of 9.6 seconds.
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, has a rate of fire of 3.20 seconds as does the Rocket Launcher II. Three times faster than a Assault Launcher.
With the correct skills, mods and rigs it is possible to have a rate of fire of less than a second.
Also rocket launchers are way cheaper than missile launchers. Defender Missiles are usually reprocessed or trashed. So getting them cheap is a easy option.
Mount 4+ of these rocket launchers with Defender Missiles, and see the results against the Sleeper missile swarms.
True, but I prefer the Assault launcher for the better DPS at further ranges when im not using defenders. Untill they fix defenders so the launcher stays active inbetween hostile launches, Ill use the standars more than defenders in the launchers. But when you NEED to cut sleeper BS dps RIGHT now, defenders in anything will work.
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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.19 19:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: BlindBleu
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, has a rate of fire of 3.20 seconds as does the Rocket Launcher II. Three times faster than a Assault Launcher.
And holds 13 defenders. You will spend as much time reloading as you will firing. Nevermind how many of these will be overkill, since you can only fire at the closest incoming missile. If sleepers are using grouped missiles as has been hinted at, then there's no way to predict how many defenders will be needed to take it down so you can't "cheat" and only use as many as you need.
As opposed to the Assault launcher which holds 80 defenders. While firing slower, it has a lot more uptime... if you can take out a missile before it reaches you then it's doing it's job anyway.
Of course real testing will need to be done to figure out which is better.
Hmm over 60 seconds...
Rocket Launcher II fires 13 Defender Missiles in 41.2 seconds reloads for 10 seconds total time 51.2 seconds and can fire 2 more missile with in a 60 second time frame. Total Defender Missile Volume is 15.
Assault Missile Launcher fires 6 Defenders in the same time frame. Yes it does have to reload yet but faster rate of fire I believe to me vastly more important.
80 Defenders fired from a Assault Launcher II takes 768 seconds or 12.9 minutes.
Same time frame from a Rocket Launcher II fires 195 Defender Missile that includes a 10 second reload time.
80 vs 195.....No contest to me in those numbers. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Skulldara
Gallente PRO Space Hunters HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD
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Posted - 2009.03.19 19:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Pottsey Skulldara said ôJust wanted to point out that shield hardeners are considered an active shield tank as they use capacitor.ö ThatÆs wrong. What next, using Invulnerability Fields mean youÆre no longer a passive tank!!! A passive tank is one where you heal passively without draining cap. If your shields regen without cap then youÆre a passive tank. Passive tanks can use active hardeners and other active modules.
I would argue that an active tank is anything that you have to turn on. Like you said, "heal passively without draining cap". Shields hardeners, such as Invulnerability Fields, drain cap; which makes them active. Extenders, PDUs, rechargers, flux coils, relays, and amplifiers are all passive. Boosters and hardeners are active. If someone can drain your cap to 0 and it adversely effects your tank, then you have an active tank. Pretty simple really..
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.19 23:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Skulldara
Originally by: Pottsey Skulldara said ôJust wanted to point out that shield hardeners are considered an active shield tank as they use capacitor.ö ThatÆs wrong. What next, using Invulnerability Fields mean youÆre no longer a passive tank!!! A passive tank is one where you heal passively without draining cap. If your shields regen without cap then youÆre a passive tank. Passive tanks can use active hardeners and other active modules.
I would argue that an active tank is anything that you have to turn on. Like you said, "heal passively without draining cap". Shields hardeners, such as Invulnerability Fields, drain cap; which makes them active. Extenders, PDUs, rechargers, flux coils, relays, and amplifiers are all passive. Boosters and hardeners are active. If someone can drain your cap to 0 and it adversely effects your tank, then you have an active tank. Pretty simple really..
Um yeah if you want to be a lawyer rather than define some useful terms, you're correct. But if you want a usable separation between active and passive tanks, then the shield booster is the key, not the hardeners. --
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