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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: TraininVain on 17/03/2009 16:38:31 I haven't used this feature once.
24 hours renders it totally u/s.
Why not 24 hours OR one skill after your current skill so it's actually of some use to existing as well as new players?
Or just a longer queueueue?
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Sparkinator
Gallente Collegium Mechanicae Dominus Bellorum
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:39:00 -
[2]
Do you really need a skill queue for BS5? Or maybe Cybernetics V? Unless you plan to go on vacation, 24 hours is fine. In that case you should easily have a plethora of long skills, being an older player. I set up exploration skills to train in it while I'm at work during the week and add Drone Interfacing 5 on the end of it, it works wonderfully. --------------------------- Your neighborhood sociopath. |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:44:00 -
[3]
Yes. Yes I do.
If I'm training a 2 day skill and it ends at 3am I'm losing several hours training.
If CCP get to be all anal retentive about me paying for every SP then by god I want every SP I pay for.
Especially since the feature is there already and this'd just need a variable changing.
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MonkeyFit
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:47:00 -
[4]
So log in the next day and update your skill queue. I found this so useful as I am now training skills to 2, 3, and 4 because before i didn't have the time to wait for a 5 hour skill to train and then change it. I can now queue up a few of these and either set a week long skill on the end of it or add more the next day. You don't have to wait for the queue to finish to add more skills, you just have to wait for it to get under 24 hours.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: TraininVain If I'm training a 2 day skill and it ends at 3am I'm losing several hours training.
If CCP get to be all anal retentive about me paying for every SP then by god I want every SP I pay for.
Especially since the feature is there already and this'd just need a variable changing.
So you want to do it exactly your way and you are not in the least flexible? Yet you're not willing to understand why CCP did it their way and expect them to be flexible? Erm..
I mean, you could just pause that skill and train another skill. Or even better log in before you go to bed, which will probably be 2-5 hours before the 3am skill ends, and add some other skill to the queue? It's short enough by then, you know.
I think many players misunderstood what the skill queue was and is supposed to do. It is meant to get rid of some annoying part of the training game mechanic: short skills, especially the 6h ones. It was and hopefully is not meant to make everyone's skill training easier and more comfortable in general. You're still supposed to log in once in a while to manage your training, and, well, play..
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Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: TraininVain Yes. Yes I do.
If I'm training a 2 day skill and it ends at 3am I'm losing several hours training.
If CCP get to be all anal retentive about me paying for every SP then by god I want every SP I pay for.
Especially since the feature is there already and this'd just need a variable changing.
No, you don't lose training. You log in before beddy-byes on the day before the skill ends and you queue up the next skill. You only need to log in up to 24 hours before the skill finishes to queue up your next 3-day skill and you then don't need to log in for another 3 days. The same is true for new players and old alike - log in up to 24 hours before the skill queue finishes and set up your next skills.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:05:00 -
[7]
If skill changes are the only way CCP can get people to log in then the game has real problems
We both know that argument is hokum anyway.
Currently people will log on, change a skill and then log off instantly anyway so it's not like it really does encourage people to play.
I'm just giving feedback on a new feature. As I say, haven't used it once.
If removing ghost training is fair dinkum then so is making the skill queue useful.
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Sparkinator
Gallente Collegium Mechanicae Dominus Bellorum
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TraininVain
I'm just giving feedback on a new feature. As I say, haven't used it once.
Then go try it out as it was meant to be used. People in MMOs tend to look at something, assume what it does, then complain when it doesn't conform to their assumption. The possibility of it not working like they think is usually too absurd for them to take into account. Just like flexibility.
--------------------------- Your neighborhood sociopath. |
Kobushi
OCForums
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:11:00 -
[9]
so stacking 50 skills for 23 hours and 50 minutes then tacking BS5 is useless? boy you have a lot of time to waste
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:11:00 -
[10]
Edited by: TraininVain on 17/03/2009 17:17:06 It's a queue. Not a great deal of ambiguity there.
My current training plans have exactly no skills under 24hr in length.
If I'm manually ****ing about with skills the queue may as well not be there.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: TraininVain Edited by: TraininVain on 17/03/2009 17:17:06 If I'm manually ****ing about with skills the queue may as well not be there.
Not true. If your skill ends at 3am then you no longer have to get up to save your precious training time. Instead you merely queue up the next skill in line at some time during the previous day. The queue thereby saves you both SP and sleep.
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Reten Kip
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:22:00 -
[12]
What really makes it useless is that it doesn't work. I had a skill queued up to start after another one finished, I log in the next day (about 7 hours after the first one should have finished) and no skill was training, the queue was empty.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:25:00 -
[13]
I could take the trouble to manually set a longer skill before they implemented the queue.
The only gain there is the order of completion. That's pretty pathetic.
Seriously. If CCP are happy to gouge me on the price of GTCs and remove ghost training I want a useful queue. This was the sop they threw to us at the same time they did those things to cut down on the rabbling a bit.
Now it's here it's of very little use.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: TraininVain I could take the trouble to manually set a longer skill before they implemented the queue.
The only gain there is the order of completion. That's pretty pathetic.
No, no, no. You don't set a longer skill manually, you set the next skill you want - and you said yourself that all your skills are 24hr+ - and it will come up next. This is not a case of setting up a skill so that it finishes during the time you can play, this is a case of setting up a skill queue that finishes within 24hrs of the time you can play. It bends the game to real life by giving us 24 hours to log on and change skills, while still requiring you to log on during that 24 hour period before which your skill will complete. If you can't manage that (which isn't too much to ask) then you need to set up a longer skill.
It really isn't that hard to understand.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.17 17:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: TraininVain on 17/03/2009 17:51:48 Same difference.
Previously I could, knowing that I wouldn't be on hand to change skills @ 3am, switch to a long ongoing skill (preferably the next skill in the training plan).
As I said, the current queue adds some degree of convenience in terms of what order things get finished. Not much though. Not the kind of convenience that'd come from NOT HAVING TO LOG ON AT ALL within 24 hrs of my current skill completing.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:21:00 -
[16]
24h queue is fine... I havent to wake up middle in the night for switching skills, so the queue we have now is fine for me, dont need more than this.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: TraininVain Edited by: TraininVain on 17/03/2009 17:51:48 Same difference.
Previously I could, knowing that I wouldn't be on hand to change skills @ 3am, switch to a long ongoing skill (preferably the next skill in the training plan).
As I said, the current queue adds some degree of convenience in terms of what order things get finished. Not much though. Not the kind of convenience that'd come from NOT HAVING TO LOG ON AT ALL within 24 hrs of my current skill completing.
You don't want to play, don't play. Doesn't bother me. But why should your character-farming antics be made easier?
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:26:00 -
[18]
Not wanting to play <> Not wanting to have to log on in a couple of days.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TraininVain Edited by: TraininVain on 17/03/2009 18:31:46 Not wanting to play <> Wanting the option to not have to log on for a couple of days.
As for "character farming" even if I were what would be the difference? I'm paying my sub. CCP have already established the precedent that SP = $úÇ. I just want them to stick to it.
Like you said before, if you don't want to log on for a few days set a skill that means you don't have to.
Bottom line is that the queue is an improvement. Whether it's enough of an improvement for you personally is a matter of opinion.
As for SP=$úÇ, the ultimate evolution would be Skill Point Codes, where 1m SP or 1day of training = $x. I don't want it to go that far as it would ruin the game.
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Callista Sincera
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Posted - 2009.03.17 19:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: TraininVain Same difference.
Previously I could, knowing that I wouldn't be on hand to change skills @ 3am, switch to a long ongoing skill (preferably the next skill in the training plan).
Which is a royal pain in the rear end?! Don't tell me you have never forgotten to resume and almost trained skill because of that crap.
Originally by: TraininVain As I said, the current queue adds some degree of convenience in terms of what order things get finished.
Which is exactly the point of the skillqueue. Getting stuff *finished* (as in: "not paused at 99% because you had to log off an hour before the skill finishes") without wasting time or having your alarm clock set to 0300.
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Alexander Vallen
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:19:00 -
[21]
I for one find the 24 hour skill queue to be incredibly useful as-is.
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Cyril
The Magnificent Seven PHOENIX.
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:27:00 -
[22]
I use it a ton. Simple you set a few short skills that you just haven't gotten around to followed by a nice long one, say Jump Drive Calibration 5, then if you want to fit a few short ones in the next day you put them at the top of the queue.
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insert witty sig here. |
Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: TraininVain I haven't used this feature once.
I haven't used High Sec POS's once, therefore the standing requirement should be dropped to -5.0 or better, +8.0 is way too high.
You don't need to use a feature if it doesn't meet your needes. You are welcome to ignore it completely.
Plenty of people have told you how it can be useful. If you choose to ignore that advice and persist in your ignorance, there is not much that we can do about it. Nor do I expect CCP to do much for you either.
Good luck on your campain to get this changed. Maybe you can get my gripe with the POS standings requirements fixed next.
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:34:00 -
[24]
Edited by: NightF0x on 17/03/2009 23:34:40 I was probably one of the more vocal people against a skill queue of any kind. I have found it useful mainly because I put aside my prejudices and simply tried to accept it. Maybe you don't fully understand how it works or maybe you are too stubborn to try it. If you gave it a chance and tried to use it, I'm willing to bet that you too will come to like it or at the least find a use for it. ------------------------------------
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Esiel
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.18 02:14:00 -
[25]
This sound more like a guy who just wants to hate it, nothing you say is going to make him feel better. I believe he is mad because he lost ghost training and is now lashing out at the que in order to make himself feel better.
For the rest of us, it means no longer juggling skills (ie stopping that skill that would finish at 3 am, setting another. Come back on the next day, stopping the current skill starting the old one, and then setting a timer so we know when to change it again.) It also lets people like me who never got around to training certain skills because I didn't have inclination to try and juggle them. Newbs love the training, I remeber what a pain training was at first because none of my skills where over 12 hours let alone 24.
So lets leave the man alone so he can whine in his misery about how much he hates the skill que (or loss of ghost training) and let the rest of us enjoy the new feature. *
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Mattk50
Caldari House Maadiah
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Posted - 2009.03.18 05:19:00 -
[26]
i agree with the author, we should remove the incredibly usefull tool that CCP has given us, and we should be forced to wake up at 3 AM in the morning to change skills, and most of all, we should make the people who dont use ghost training suffer!!!.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.18 11:05:00 -
[27]
Edited by: TraininVain on 18/03/2009 11:12:55
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Originally by: TraininVain I haven't used this feature once.
I haven't used High Sec POS's once, therefore the standing requirement should be dropped to -5.0 or better, +8.0 is way too high.
You don't need to use a feature if it doesn't meet your needes. You are welcome to ignore it completely.
Plenty of people have told you how it can be useful. If you choose to ignore that advice and persist in your ignorance, there is not much that we can do about it. Nor do I expect CCP to do much for you either.
Good luck on your campain to get this changed. Maybe you can get my gripe with the POS standings requirements fixed next.
I've used the feature enough to see that it's u/s. I somehow had a long skill I'm working on at the back of the queue. This was useful. When I started a new branch of the skill tree I had a couple of days of coming back to the skill I set training and finding it had run out and I was still gaining SP on the long skill. This was useful. But as soon as I got to training that skill to 3 or 4 it stopped happening which isn't useful. It's not that I'm not using it out of spite. It's just not applicable to my current training queue.
People have said:
1) It's handy for short skills.
I agree. I don't have short skills to train at the moment. Everything I want to train is at least 2 days in length. This point doesn't take long to get to with a specialised training plan. edit In before the guys complaining about their Titan training plan
Therefore it's not handy for me. I don't care what it does for you. I said in my OP it was useful for some players. If it's useful for you, you gots nothing to complain about. I do.
2) It's handy if you manually log in within 24 hours of your skill ending.
OK. I could always just switch to a skill that'd end > 24 hours previously and approximate the same effect. That's effort though and kind of defeats the purpose of automating it.
3) I can add a long skill to the end of some short ones. Again, handy if I had some short skills I wanted to get through.
I'm not disagreeing with any of these uses. I'm just saying they're of little or no use to me.
Not like being able to queue up skills for a holiday or weekend away or busy week would be useful.
4) I'm being mean about a super new feature and skillfully right clicking a skill and choosing "Train now" adds oh so much to the game.
Nope, I'm not being mean. I'm being a customer. Previously there was a bit of give and take on the "SP gain = $" issue. Now there is none. That should cut both ways. I'm not asking for the moon on a stick here The feature is already in and it's been deliberately prenerfed not to be of any use to me. It's **** by design. Why is this?
It doesn't add much to the game. It's actually one of the worst parts of the game. A lot of people I get to try this game or talk to about it compare it to progress quest. It's marginally less dull than the ****socking approach (or less "rat in a skinner box" anyway) but it's not interesting.
If they want to encourage people to be logged in while not actively playing they should get a bounce on with WiS. If I'm idling ingame it's usually because of chat.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:03:00 -
[28]
The queue is incredibly useful, and fulfils exactly what many people have been asking for since the giant skill queue thread started - the ability to deal with skills that finish at damned inconvenient times like say, 3 am.
Long skills, short skills, doesn't matter, if my 5 day skill finishes at some stupid time, I know now that I don't need to bugger about in EVEMon trying to nudge it by training some other skills, I can just set the next skill to train once it's within 24 hours. That means I can concentrate on the specific skillset I want now, not in a week's time because of having to micro-manage other unrelated-but-useful skills to try and massage the ending times.
I'm an existing player, more than a year old now, and it's plenty useful. Your analysis is either wrong or incredibly selfish. What you have completely failed to state is why anyone should consider extending the queue length; what benefit does it bring beyond making you happy? How long is enough? A week? A month? A year? Someone will always be unhappy that they can't quite fit their extended plan in. I'd rather kill off the argument by limiting to 24 hours which is exactly what CCP have done. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:42:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 18/03/2009 15:44:31 I've not started a single skill without using the queue since it's introduction. It's perhaps the best feature we've ever seen added, and the 24 hour limit isn't really a limit at all.
If you have skills that take around two days to end, remember you can log in whilst the skill is in progress and queue up another 2 day skill at the end of the last. Yes, it's slightly more work than hitting up a huge queue and forgetting, but it's not going to kill you to log in once every 24 hours to check skills.
The queue was not supposed to stop you logging in frequently, it is there simply as an aid to training so that you can choose what time of day to log in at. ---
Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
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Tig Rens
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cedric Diggory Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 18/03/2009 15:44:31 I've not started a single skill without using the queue since it's introduction. It's perhaps the best feature we've ever seen added, and the 24 hour limit isn't really a limit at all.
I'm with you on that - I've lost count how many times I've heard someone say how they can now train those "crappy little skills I couldn't be bothered to wait around to finish" :)
However, there are always those who are going to be upset if something wasn't tailor made for them so no matter what is released into the game, there are always going to be the self-serving few who'll hate it.
Who knows, perhaps we'll have an option in another five years where we can accrue time (eg: Only directly train one skill without using the queue for a week and get an extra day, for a maximum of five days saved queue) which would be nice for holidays but that said, the game wasn't made to be easy, it was made to be entertaining and challenging for as long as possible. Five+ years on and EVE still qualifies I think.
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