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Mordae LesKnight
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:41:00 -
[1]
Anathema, Helios, or Nemesis. I like the idea of scanning people down and salvaging there stuff. Now i orginally wanted to go for Helios for stronger scans and it was faster then some of the other covert ops ships plus had a drone for some dmg. Looking into it more i wont be able to fit a cloaking device, probe launcher, and salvager. So i was looking at Nemesis. This gains more high fittings so i can have all 3 but loses scan str and the ability to warp in cloaked. Then i noticed the Anathema. It can have everything i want but then would have no way to attack anyone. Im ok with this as being a scout and theif seem fun to me more then fighting. With my limited experience is a Anathema able to do both the scouting and ninja salvaging job well or should i use two ships. Helios for scouting and nemesis for ninja salvaging? If i can use 1 ship for both i would prefer that as its faster to switch from solo ninja salvaging to scanning down enemies for my corp mates. Two other questions that relate to this are how important is the stealth warp and if im not in a stealth bomber do i have to drop cloak for 30 sec to be able to target something to salvage leaving myself vunerable longer? Thanks
p.s. also how important is the extra 10% scan str per covert ops lvl bonus for scanning down possible pvp targets?
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:47:00 -
[2]
First off just forget about combat in a Covert Ops ship. Even going all gank they would have the DPS of a wet noodle. Not to mention they are paper thin and will pop if someone so much as looks at you sternly.
CovOps is a scout ship. Use it as such. CovOps cloak allows you to warp cloaked thus picking your targets to salvage, or not, before anyone even knows you are there.
Lock time after dropping cloak on a CovOps is negligible.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Tarn Reis
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Posted - 2009.03.17 20:53:00 -
[3]
Listen to Jora. It's a fun class but by no means a pvp capable ship. Use it to scout for your fleet (or alts), ninja salvage, scan safely, etc. But don't get into combat :)
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:11:00 -
[4]
Reading your post thru I see to seem to understand that the Cov-ops are not combat ships per see (although your "attack something" comment threw my two predecessors). As for the importance of the bonus: It only kicks in once you hit cov-ops skill level 3 (to get cov-ops you need frigate 5 which gives the astrometrics frigates like the magnate a bonus of 25% to strength, level 2 cov-ops is 20% and level 3 cov-ops is 30%.
Yes the strength bonus is important. As is Astrometrics 5 and the other scanning skills. You won't see the difference till you get the skills yourself but switching from a backup core probe launcher on a normal cruiser to a cov-ops with it's more powerful launcher and bonuses is an eye opener.
As for the locking time penalty: If someone is seeing you locking something you're doing it wrong. The warp cloaked is critical to this ship's stealth. As it is on the blockade runner and the Fleet Recons. Not knowing if you're still on grid or not is what keeps the opponents nervous.
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Mordae LesKnight
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:21:00 -
[5]
Then the Anathema seems like the ship i want to fly sence it can warp stealthed, str scans, and fit a salvager all at the same time.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mordae LesKnight Then the Anathema seems like the ship i want to fly sence it can warp stealthed, str scans, and fit a salvager all at the same time.
All Covert Ops ships except Helios can do this. Cheetah and Buzzard both have three high slots. You can fit Anathema and these two identically. Cheetah is my favorite Covert Ops because of its high base velocity. But it can do everything the Anathema does.
Here's one thing going for the Anathema gets you that the others do not: the skill prerequisites for the Anathema are the same skills needed for the Sentinel Electronic Attack Ship, which is the best one of that class.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mordae LesKnight Then the Anathema seems like the ship i want to fly sence it can warp stealthed, str scans, and fit a salvager all at the same time.
I'd agree it's probably your best bet. Fitting an anathema is a piece of cake from what I've experienced.
Oh, and its damn sexy
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:39:00 -
[8]
Right.
Forget doing any damage while flying a cov ops. There is no point; a vanilla newbie ship could probably kill you one on one. In fact a hauler with a web, scam and single gun would kill you.
No ship can lock things cloaked, so you can't salvage cloaked.
Warping cloaked is the key to cov ops. You will be dropping probes and getting close to targets so your gang can warp to you and thus on top of the target, or maybe at optimal snipe range, or maybe at optimal jamming range. Get it you are the man who sets up the plays. The stealth bomber is a bit different, it.s move of a spider in a web thing, park, (well a few of you park, the things have dreadful damage you need a gang), wait, wait, wait for the right target in the right situation....
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h First off just forget about combat in a Covert Ops ship. Even going all gank they would have the DPS of a wet noodle. Not to mention they are paper thin and will pop if someone so much as looks at you sternly.
CovOps is a scout ship. Use it as such. CovOps cloak allows you to warp cloaked thus picking your targets to salvage, or not, before anyone even knows you are there.
Lock time after dropping cloak on a CovOps is negligible.
The nemesis is a stealth bomber??
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mordae LesKnight Then the Anathema seems like the ship i want to fly sence it can warp stealthed, str scans, and fit a salvager all at the same time.
And pop immediately upon arriving in a toxic gas cloud.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 17/03/2009 21:53:36 I'm sorry, the covert ops ships are completely PVP capable ships.
http://theaduroprotocol.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=2462
Have a look at the related kills here and you will see that they are indeed capable of dishing out some damage. Something you won't see there is that the covert ops were on the job a very short period of time and we had no losses.
It was a good fight.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 17/03/2009 21:53:36 I'm sorry, the covert ops ships are completely PVP capable ships.
http://theaduroprotocol.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=2462
Have a look at the related kills here and you will see that they are indeed capable of dishing out some damage. Something you won't see there is that the covert ops were on the job a very short period of time and we had no losses.
It was a good fight.
And the three covops combined accounted for less than a quarter of the damage on the mail I looked at.
Just because you can get them on a killmail and warp away doesn't mean they're at all suited for combat.
Now, to be fair, I have seen mail(s) where a covops soloed an interceptor. But it's not the typical result.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 And the three covops combined accounted for less than a quarter of the damage on the mail I looked at.
Just because you can get them on a killmail and warp away doesn't mean they're at all suited for combat.
Now, to be fair, I have seen mail(s) where a covops soloed an interceptor. But it's not the typical result.
I'm sorry, I heard you talking :P
Covert ops ships have enough midslots to make them a viable gang ship. For example, a Helios fitted with blasters, 2 webs and a scram can incapacitate mobile ships. A Cheetah with TDs, artillery and a target painter can keep a target from hitting your already tiny sig. Throw a couple RSDs on an Anathema and you have a recipe for disaster when you combine it with a properly fitted ECM Buzzard.
The fight you saw there was actually two fights, and some others just showed up on the killmails from fighting earlier. The Pilgrim in particular. My corporation engaged the Pilgrim solo, and an interceptor showed up near the end of the fight to do damage (this was facwar).
Remember, teamwork will get your ships to do outstanding things.
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Xavier Sunder
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:06:00 -
[14]
Covops can warp cloaked. In Eve that translates into easy mode. You can probably play one handed and while writing your thesis on comparitive religion among Native American tribes.
No one can ever hurt you unless you decloak or you get within 2000m of something, which means you decloak. That power can't be overstated. And everyone will tell you that intelligence is the key element of combat in this game. As a covops you'll be very welcome to any corp for scouting.
Though really don't expect to pew pew. The ships themselves are crappy frigates that cost 10-20x as much as the base frigate and the insurance you get for them only covers the base cost. I.e., it's a big loss. So there's not much point in subjecting them to damage.
Sure, you could make a Carrier be your scout ship, but why not use ships at least somewhat for what they were intended for? Though I'm the first to say that people take the 25% bonuses a ship has for whatever role much much too seriously.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 17/03/2009 22:16:48
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 17/03/2009 21:53:36 I'm sorry, the covert ops ships are completely PVP capable ships.
http://theaduroprotocol.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=2462
Have a look at the related kills here and you will see that they are indeed capable of dishing out some damage. Something you won't see there is that the covert ops were on the job a very short period of time and we had no losses.
It was a good fight.
Yeah...and I have seen video of a Bestower soloing (and beating) an interceptor. Doesn't make it a good idea to try as a matter of course.
Sure lots of things are possible in EVE and I will say CovOps can make a decent tackle ship. They call in the cavalry then decloak and lock down a ship till the heavier ships can get it pinned. That is not all that uncommon.
But as damage dealers? Maybe in some ultra rare scenarios but if it is pew pew you want then there are a HUGE number of better choices than a CovOps for that. And a lot that are far cheaper to boot.
And woe be to the CovOps pilot if an enemy gets a good bead on them. They pop fast (I lost one recently in six second ).
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I'm sorry, I heard you talking :P
Uhh?
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Covert ops ships have enough midslots to make them a viable gang ship.
But not enough EHP to stand being looked at funny.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa For example, a Helios fitted with blasters, 2 webs and a scram can incapacitate mobile ships.
Provided there are no drones around.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa A Cheetah with TDs, artillery and a target painter can keep a target from hitting your already tiny sig.
Provided he doesn't have drones....
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Throw a couple RSDs on an Anathema and you have a recipe for disaster when you combine it with a properly fitted ECM Buzzard.
With an ECM ship around a kestrel would do a better job, and cost a tiny fraction as much.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa The fight you saw there was actually two fights, and some others just showed up on the killmails from fighting earlier. The Pilgrim in particular. My corporation engaged the Pilgrim solo, and an interceptor showed up near the end of the fight to do damage (this was facwar).
How the pilgrim didn't murder you with drones is baffling. What drones, if any did he deploy?
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Remember, teamwork will get your ships to do outstanding things.
Right, and taking bigger ships will accomplish more for less money.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h But as damage dealers? Maybe in some ultra rare scenarios but if it is pew pew you want then there are a HUGE number of better choices than a CovOps for that. And a lot that are far cheaper to boot.
Agreed. Even the stealth bomber is a better ship if you don't need intel/tackle. And that's saying something.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:45:00 -
[18]
Who says a covops can't gank?
[Cheetah, OMFG GANK YOU!] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Warp Scrambler II
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Auxiliary Thrusters I Auxiliary Thrusters I -----------
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Who says a covops can't gank?
[Cheetah, OMFG GANK YOU!] Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
pfft, comedy killmail waiting to happen __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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z0de
Gallente The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:43:00 -
[20]
ECM Helios is effective vs frigs. á á
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Who says a covops can't gank?
Amateur.
[Cheetah, 48km sniper] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Tremor Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Who says a covops can't gank?
[Cheetah, OMFG GANK YOU!] Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
pfft, comedy killmail waiting to happen
One would think the whole "gank things with a covops" would be a hint that this is a darwin award (or a hilarious video) waiting to happen... -----------
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.18 03:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mordae LesKnight Anathema, Helios, or Nemesis. I like the idea of scanning people down and salvaging there stuff. Now i orginally wanted to go for Helios for stronger scans and it was faster then some of the other covert ops ships plus had a drone for some dmg. Looking into it more i wont be able to fit a cloaking device, probe launcher, and salvager. So i was looking at Nemesis. This gains more high fittings so i can have all 3 but loses scan str and the ability to warp in cloaked. Then i noticed the Anathema. It can have everything i want but then would have no way to attack anyone. Im ok with this as being a scout and theif seem fun to me more then fighting. With my limited experience is a Anathema able to do both the scouting and ninja salvaging job well or should i use two ships. Helios for scouting and nemesis for ninja salvaging? If i can use 1 ship for both i would prefer that as its faster to switch from solo ninja salvaging to scanning down enemies for my corp mates. Two other questions that relate to this are how important is the stealth warp and if im not in a stealth bomber do i have to drop cloak for 30 sec to be able to target something to salvage leaving myself vunerable longer? Thanks
p.s. also how important is the extra 10% scan str per covert ops lvl bonus for scanning down possible pvp targets?
Cov Ops do two things well basically. Scouting and probing. There's nowt wrong with this and both of those are useful things to have.
They have an optional role as tackler but they're not very well suited to this. They lack bonuses and survivability. Unbonused e-war got nerfed and that was what you used to fit in spare slots for tackling so I really dunno if I'd even try it. Then again it's really not my week so perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic. Cost used to be an issue but most of the fun inties have climbed in price to the point where there's not that much difference so, meh.
As a salvager... I dunno. None of them leave you more than one high free for your salvaging set-up so that's basically... a salvager. Is that sufficient? I seem to recall mounting several increased your chances of getting a hit quickly.
If you're using two ships then the salvager can be anything. Dessies are cheap and have lots of high slots for salvage stuff.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.03.18 09:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 How the pilgrim didn't murder you with drones is baffling. What drones, if any did he deploy?
Well, he had a rack of Hammerhead IIs out. This wonderful thing called a tank (perhaps you've heard of it) allowed me to keep my armor up long enough to kill him.
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.03.18 11:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 How the pilgrim didn't murder you with drones is baffling. What drones, if any did he deploy?
Well, he had a rack of Hammerhead IIs out. This wonderful thing called a tank (perhaps you've heard of it) allowed me to keep my armor up long enough to kill him.
Ah so basically he was re-tarded, probably some carebear who had no idea how to pvp. But since that also describes you guys, I'm surprised you were able to kill him. Good job! -------------------------- NOTR B A N A N A S |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2009.03.18 11:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 How the pilgrim didn't murder you with drones is baffling. What drones, if any did he deploy?
Well, he had a rack of Hammerhead IIs out. This wonderful thing called a tank (perhaps you've heard of it) allowed me to keep my armor up long enough to kill him.
Shouldn't your cap have been empty ? -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
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Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 How the pilgrim didn't murder you with drones is baffling. What drones, if any did he deploy?
Well, he had a rack of Hammerhead IIs out. This wonderful thing called a tank (perhaps you've heard of it) allowed me to keep my armor up long enough to kill him.
But to be fair, it also sometimes DOESN'T work out?
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Spectre3353&id=6102682&page=4&filter=kills#mail
I tried to link this off the Aduro Protocol KB but I guess you don't actually post all your losses because I didn't see it there. ----- My Pirate Blog: http://evenewb.blogspot.com/ |
Nalena Arlath
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:52:00 -
[28]
Standard Operating Procedure ----------------------------
1) Use your Cov-Ops to scan for possible mission runners 2) After pinpointing the target, warp to 30km +/- while cloaked 3) After arriving on their grid, or near warp gate, bookmark it 4) Fly back to station, switch from your Cov-Ops to a Destroyer 5) Fly back to grid with Destroyer and start salvaging everything.
Note: You want a Destroyer with 4 salvagers (or more). You won't need cargo-expanders since salvage takes little room. I'm not sure if it works against NPC rats, but you can try putting a Warp Core Stabilizer in the lows as well to avoid an "accidental" scramble as a result of mission runner warping out.
So why not salvage with the Cov Ops? Because it has limited amount of salvagers you can get on it, and it's alot more fragile than a destroyer.
The thing is, you can't tractor the wrecks since they aren't yours. Thus you want to spend as little time as possible at each wreck when salvaging it. More salvagers = more chances of successful salvage cycle = faster and more efficient.
Furthermore, with the new scanning system you can set your probes to only list specific ship types. I set mine to only list ships in the following categories:
Battleships Marauders Command Ships Battlecruisers Heavy Assault ships (aka HAC's)
Reason for this is because I don't want to bother with L1 and L2 missions. I want the fat salvage from L3-L4 and the above ship types are the ones that typically can handle L3-L4.
Enjoy.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2009.03.18 14:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Xavier Sunder Covops can warp cloaked. In Eve that translates into easy mode. You can probably play one handed and while writing your thesis on comparitive religion among Native American tribes.
No one can ever hurt you unless you decloak or you get within 2000m of something, which means you decloak. That power can't be overstated. And everyone will tell you that intelligence is the key element of combat in this game. As a covops you'll be very welcome to any corp for scouting.
But then if you DO decloak in a dangerous place, you'll go pop fast. Learning what will decloak you is important. Inconvinient beacons and clouds at your warp-in point being the main perpetrators to look for.
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Nalena Arlath
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Posted - 2009.03.18 15:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sigul Siento But then if you DO decloak in a dangerous place, you'll go pop fast. Learning what will decloak you is important. Inconvinient beacons and clouds at your warp-in point being the main perpetrators to look for.
Basic things that decloak you is the initial acceleration gate (unless you use the warp trick) and gas clouds.
Beacons are avoided with the "Warp to 30km" (or whichever range). Of course, if you warp by using an acceleration gate, then you can't avoid the beacon either.
In addition, in the last patch the decloak range was increased from 2000m to 2500m from objects.
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