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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.20 18:55:00 -
[1]
Well since a few people suggested this in the carrier fact sheet, I figured I'd post a list of important things about dreads.
I'd suggest reading the carrier fact sheet first, as it contains several pointers that apply to dreads as well (see everything involving cynos and moving around) This page will focus on things directly relating to dreads only.
1: (and this is the only difference between dreads and carriers in terms of movement) A dreadnought only has a base of 5 LY jump range. This means you won't be getting as far as you would with a carrier, though most large capital ship moves are planned using a dreadnought with Jump Drive Calibration 4 (Which you should really get before flying any cap)
Out of siege:
2: A dread out of siege is almost always useless. The only exception to this is the moros as it can put out roughly a thousand dps with its drones (which do not get affected by siege mode).
3: A dread out of siege can still tank a few thousand dps, but it puts out less dps then a well fit battleship (again, this does not include the moros)
In Siege:
4: A dread in siege gets a 650% damage bonus to their guns (ouch >_< )
5: Dreads in siege get a 100% bonus to repair amount and -50% bonus to repper duration. Because of this it can be pretty difficult to get a dread to run 2 reppers for any extended period of time, and most people choose instead to run just 1 repper.
6: Your maximum number of targets in siege mode is 2, and you lock time increases drastically.
7: Your tracking and explosion velocities also take a huge hit, because of this sieged dreads are mainly used to kill POSs and capital ships.
8: A dread in siege cannot be remote repped. However this also means that you cannot be jammed or damped by hostile ships (Neuts however will still work)
9: A dread in siege mode cannot move, cannot dock, and cannot jump.
10: Siege mode uses strontium clathrates as fuel, and each siege cycle lasts 10 minutes and cannot be interrupted.
Cost:
11: A dread costs about 1.5billion isk. To fully buy, fit and insure one will most likely cost 2.5bil total
Other stuff:
12: As with carriers, everyone and their mother wants a dreadnought kill. Aside from the moros, dreads are extremely vulnerable to smaller ships, so flying one solo is not advised.
13: The moros and revelation are usually considered to be the best capitals. The Moros because it can put out good DPS/tank while being able to kill smaller ships with its drones, and the rev because it has even better dps/tank (though not much in terms of smaller ship defence) and does not need to reload, a huge plus in massive fleet fights where activating a module can take several minutes due to lag.
14: The phoenix and Naglfar however are often viewed as being in need of a boost, due to the poor performance of capital projectile turrets and the problems with citadel torps (targets are often dead before the torps reach their target)
15: Dreads are the bread and butter of any space holding alliance's fleet. Carriers are nice as well, but any big alliance wants more dreads, as when you're fighting for space you're shooting towers, which involves dreads, or defending towers by shooting dreads, which involves, you guessed it, dreads.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.20 19:03:00 -
[2]
Reserved |
Zantei
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Posted - 2009.03.27 13:54:00 -
[3]
Thanks a lot for this. Really informative.
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Savasta
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Posted - 2009.03.27 14:41:00 -
[4]
Can we expect some fact sheets for super caps too? Some more info on titans and what modules to fit them with would be great.
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Han Harrusii
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Posted - 2009.03.27 14:46:00 -
[5]
Can a dread aqquire a target, then switch to siege mode?
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.03.27 15:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Han Harrusii Can a dread aqquire a target, then switch to siege mode?
Nope, entering siege breaks all locks, which is a terrible bore during tower ops as you waste a good 20 seconds of your 10 minute self fornication break acquiring your target.
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Aluin Chaput
Caldari Mort's Navy
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Posted - 2009.03.27 16:10:00 -
[7]
So, from playing around with Dread Fits on EFT, I want to ask a question. For everything I see, the second a Dread is out of siege they are either toast, almost cap dry, or getting pretty low. So therefor I would assume that all the carriers in a fleet just bring energy reps and hope for the best? |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.27 16:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Aluin Chaput almost cap dry, or getting pretty low. So therefor I would assume that all the carriers in a fleet just bring energy reps and hope for the best?
If there are a number of dreads then with a fleet that big lag can be an issue. So the reps are kept running. Often it doesn't take the full siege cycle before the tower is in reinforced or popped.
For a smaller crew the reps aren't kept running so cap isn't an issue.
Usually worst case in a few minutes the dread will have enough cap to keep on going. Broadcast for reps, let a carrier rep you while your cap catches up.
Energy transfers are a bit over rated. Works in a small gang but has issues with a larger fleet. First, only the archon/chimera can use these. You can broadcast for cap, but the carrier can't see the status of your cap. If you're being shot you don't need cap nearly as much as you need a remote rep.
I wouldn't count on energy transfers. |
Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Destructive Influence KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.03.27 17:41:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 27/03/2009 17:41:55 If you aquire a lock before entering siege cycle, then you will lose all locks after engadging siege mode. (Citadel torps fire before siege will do 0 damage even if in mid-flight <please check>)
You can only lock 2 targets while in Siege Mode. -----------
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.27 22:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Cambarus on 27/03/2009 22:26:54
Originally by: Savasta Can we expect some fact sheets for super caps too? Some more info on titans and what modules to fit them with would be great.
Well someone might come along and make one, but I highly doubt it tbh. Supercapitals are the sorts of ships you will probably never fly, and if you are one of the very few who do, you'll know EXACTLY how it's going to be fit MONTHS before you get into it. You'll look at supercap killmails, modules that only they can use etc. Simply put if you don't know how to fit one, you're still at least a few years off being able to fly one, so don't worry about it, and if you can't pick up the knowledge to properly fit it while playing, even if you have the skills and isk, you havn't been playing long enough.
Originally by: Aluin Chaput So, from playing around with Dread Fits on EFT, I want to ask a question. For everything I see, the second a Dread is out of siege they are either toast, almost cap dry, or getting pretty low. So therefor I would assume that all the carriers in a fleet just bring energy reps and hope for the best?
Cap dry? It's not hard to get a dread to be cap stable, especially with just one rep. No one fits capital energy transfers tbh, there are better uses for the highslots of a carrier.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, I added the 0 damage torps and lock loss to the guide (and yes I can confirm that citadel torps do 0 damage if you enter OR exit siege while they're flying) |
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Lucas Tigh
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.28 02:41:00 -
[11]
My EVE Search fu is weak. Mind linking me to the carrier fact sheet? -------------------------------------
CCP, make me a winner. |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.28 04:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cambarus Cap dry? It's not hard to get a dread to be cap stable,
The problem is the preferred fitting for large fights is trimarks + hp buffer. So the cap is likely not to last an entire siege cycle. Easy to keep the cap going out of siege however in siege is an issue.
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Tolsimir Wolfblood
Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.03.28 06:20:00 -
[13]
1. They are used for POS bashing and for killing other caps (some times support thanks to the Moros)
2. You get capital turrets by learning w/e large turret to 5, gunnery 5 and w/e XL turret you want to train.
3. You get capital missiles by learning torps to 5 and missile launcher operation to 5.
4. You get capital armor reps by learning repair systems to 5, hull upgrades to 5, mechanic to 5, and capital armor repp to 1.
5. You get capital shield reps by learning engineering to 4, shield operation to 5, tactical shield manipulation to 5, and capital shield opperation to 1.
6. Siege Mode. You get that mod after you learn weapons upgrade to 5, advanced weapon upgrades to 5 and Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration to 1.
7. The navigation skills are the same as carriers
8. You only need to train capital ships to level 1 in order to train for dreads
9. Siege mode lasts for 10min
10. Siege mod takes strontium in order to work ( The amount varies depending on what level of Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration you have ).
11. You can not be remote repped when in siege mode.
12. You can not be affected by any electronic war fare wile in siege mode.
13. You can get remote energy transfer while in siege ( I think )
14.When you enter siege this happends.
Max Velocity Bonus -100 % Activation time / duration 600.00 sec Damage Multiplier Bonus 625 % Scan Resolution Bonus -75 % Tracking Speed Bonus -92.5 % Explosion Velocity Bonus -92.5 % Armor Repair Bonus 100 % Armor Repair Duration Bonus -50 % Shield Boost Bonus 100 % Shield Boost Duration Bonus -50 % Maxed locked targets 2
15. You can not warp or cyno while in siege mode.
16. Crystal implants do not affect capital shield reppers.
17. Slaves, Snakes, Nomad and Halo do work on capitals.
18. The Revelation and Moros armor tank ( some crazy people try to armor tank Naglfars but it fails)
19. The Phoenix and Naglfar shield tank. ( Yes the Naglfar dose fail )
20. From best to worst in cap vs cap battles --> Rev --> Moros --> Pheonix --> Naglfar
21. From best to worst in POS sieging Rev--> Pheonix --> Moros --> Naglfar
22. Over all just fly a Revelation or a Moros and be happy
Thats all I can think of.
Tols
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Grista
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Posted - 2009.03.28 06:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grista on 28/03/2009 06:49:14
Originally by: Cambarus Out of siege:
2: A dread out of siege is almost always useless. The only exception to this is the moros as it can put out roughly a thousand dps with its drones (which do not get affected by siege mode).
3: A dread out of siege can still tank a few thousand dps, but it puts out less dps then a well fit battleship (again, this does not include the moros)
The moros and revelation out of siege will put a hurting on Battleships. The Nag and Phoenix not so much, unless it's very short range. DPS output of the first two is comparable to a Mega/Apoc at moderate to long range. I'm sure it's less than a theoretical EFT fit, but fleet BS are often fit to survive at least 1 doomsday, and not max gank.
My main point is dreads are not completely useless against BS-heavy support fleets.
Quote:
Cost:
11: A dread costs about 1.5billion isk. To fully buy, fit and insure one will most likely cost 2.5bil total
I haven't seen a deadspace-fit dread lossmail in quite some time, nor many with expensive T2 rigs, so I don't know where you got a 1B cost to fit. Fitting a dread costs well under 500 million, even if you go with all faction mods. Most dreads today are typically straight T2 mods and T1 rigs, excepting perhaps faction EANMs.
edit: missed the "insure" word. Assuming you do insure, yeah you're looking at 750M or more.
Quote:
13: The moros and revelation are usually considered to be the best capitals. The Moros because it can put out good DPS/tank while being able to kill smaller ships with its drones, and the rev because it has even better dps/tank (though not much in terms of smaller ship defence) and does not need to reload, a huge plus in massive fleet fights where activating a module can take several minutes due to lag.
Module lag has been much improved over the last 6-12 months. It's practically non-existent now (at least on reinforced nodes). That's the only thing I take issue with. Torp dreads are still next to useless in capital on capital (or capital on BS) combat due to flight time.
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Mazare Mircea
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.28 12:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cambarus Edited by: Cambarus on 27/03/2009 18:06:22 Well since a few people suggested this in the carrier fact sheet, I figured I'd post a list of important things about dreads.
I'd suggest reading the carrier fact sheet first, as it contains several pointers that apply to dreads as well (see everything involving cynos and moving around) This page will focus on things directly relating to dreads only.
1: (and this is the only difference between dreads and carriers in terms of movement) A dreadnought only has a base of 5 LY jump range. This means you won't be getting as far as you would with a carrier, though most large capital ship moves are planned using a dreadnought with Jump Drive Calibration 4 (Which you should really get before flying any cap)
Out of siege:
2: A dread out of siege is almost always useless. The only exception to this is the moros as it can put out roughly a thousand dps with its drones (which do not get affected by siege mode).
3: A dread out of siege can still tank a few thousand dps, but it puts out less dps then a well fit battleship (again, this does not include the moros)
In Siege:
4: A dread in siege gets a 650% damage bonus to their guns (ouch >_< ), though citadel torps still flying while you switch between sieged/unsieged mode will hit for 0 damage.
5: Dreads in siege get a 100% bonus to repair amount and -50% bonus to repper duration. Because of this it can be pretty difficult to get a dread to run 2 reppers for any extended period of time, and most people choose instead to run just 1 repper.
6: Your maximum number of targets in siege mode is 2, and you lock time increases drastically. Also, any locks you had before entering siege are lost.
7: Your tracking and explosion velocities also take a huge hit, because of this sieged dreads are mainly used to kill POSs and capital ships.
8: A dread in siege cannot be remote repped. However this also means that you cannot be jammed or damped by hostile ships (Neuts however will still work)
9: A dread in siege mode cannot move, cannot dock, and cannot jump.
10: Siege mode uses strontium clathrates as fuel, and each siege cycle lasts 10 minutes and cannot be interrupted.
Cost:
11: A dread costs about 1.5billion isk. To fully buy, fit and insure one will most likely cost 2.5bil total
Other stuff:
12: As with carriers, everyone and their mother wants a dreadnought kill. Aside from the moros, dreads are extremely vulnerable to smaller ships, so flying one solo is not advised.
13: The moros and revelation are usually considered to be the best capitals. The Moros because it can put out good DPS/tank while being able to kill smaller ships with its drones, and the rev because it has even better dps/tank (though not much in terms of smaller ship defence) and does not need to reload, a huge plus in massive fleet fights where activating a module can take several minutes due to lag.
14: The phoenix and Naglfar however are often viewed as being in need of a boost, due to the poor performance of capital projectile turrets and the problems with citadel torps (targets are often dead before the torps reach their target)
15: Dreads are the bread and butter of any space holding alliance's fleet. Carriers are nice as well, but any big alliance wants more dreads, as when you're fighting for space you're shooting towers, which involves dreads, or defending towers by shooting dreads, which involves, you guessed it, dreads.
First the damage bonus in siege is 625%, not 650%. Second, your dread prices are really skewed. A fully fitted dread is tops around 1.7-1.75b with the Naglfar usually being the most expensive and the Phoenix usually the cheapest - there's a hint about torps and capital shield booster here CCP. -----
Do androids dream of electric sheep ? |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.28 14:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mazare Mircea
Originally by: Cambarus
First the damage bonus in siege is 625%, not 650%. Second, your dread prices are really skewed. A fully fitted dread is tops around 1.7-1.75b with the Naglfar usually being the most expensive and the Phoenix usually the cheapest - there's a hint about torps and capital shield booster here CCP.
First off, learn to quote properly. Quoting a whole page of text to talk about 1 or 2 seperate points is annoying.
Second, another guy in this thread made the exact same mistake you did. Go and reread what I wrote, you'll notice that I mention insurance. And no, the prices are not meant to be exact, but more of a rough estimate. Prices of dreads were like 1.8bil for just the dread a few months ago, and I immagine they'll eventually climb back up there, better to assume you're going to need a bit extra stashed away to get one than to find that you've not saved enough.
I've changed the siege bonus description :P |
Lubomir Penev
interimo End of The Line.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 09:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
You can only lock 2 targets while in Siege Mode.
What if you got signal amplifiers fitted? (something that could make sense on the shield tanked ones...) -- 20081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 20090317 : back under original ownership
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Ruban Retail
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:43:00 -
[18]
Nice info, thanks
I can fly a Phoenix but have never owned or flown one, nor do I have need of one at the moment. So the following questions are probably a bit noobish.
Can they be made to work in any way solo or as part of a small gang? Parked up outside a POS maybe with someone to point and web for me?
Something else IÆve often pondered is whether or not a passively tanked Phoenix is a realistic proposition?
..........a fool and his ISK
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:00:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Crackzilla on 09/04/2009 16:01:17
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
What if you got signal amplifiers fitted? (something that could make sense on the shield tanked ones...)
2x targets is a hard limit with seige mode engaged.
A dread nearly always has more important things to fit than sig amps.
Originally by: Ruban Retail Can they be made to work in any way solo or as part of a small gang? Parked up outside a POS maybe with someone to point and web for me?
Something else IÆve often pondered is whether or not a passively tanked Phoenix is a realistic proposition?
Small gang? No.
A dread has horrible dps out of siege (except moros). A bs is usually a better bet.
In seige a dread couldn't hit a moving planet. You don't just need a point. You need target painters, and webs, webs, webs, webs, webs, and more webs. Your target needs the sig rad of a cap ship and to be not moving at all. It is all around a bad idea.
A passive tanked dread might work for ratting but the active tank is far superior.
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Khornne
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:23:00 -
[20]
Hopefully this will save some posts about dreads. ;-)
--
Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service
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Lubomir Penev
interimo End of The Line.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Crackzilla
A dread nearly always has more important things to fit than sig amps.
A shield tanked Naglfar can't really have a sensor booster but can sure use the added scanres. That's the case I think of.
-- 20081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 20090317 : back under original ownership
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Contralto
RnD R US
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Posted - 2009.04.09 18:45:00 -
[22]
Which Warfare/Mind links effect cap ships?
Corporation standings transfer service for Hisec Pos, 10.0 to Gallente, 9.65 to Minmatar
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Tiberyya Za
Gallente Bellum Aeternus
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Posted - 2009.04.27 04:13:00 -
[23]
How does a unsieged Dreadnaught compare vs. a T2-fit Battleship on stationary targets like another Dreadnaught in siege mode?
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Noodly Appendage
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Posted - 2009.04.27 04:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tiberyya Za How does a unsieged Dreadnaught compare vs. a T2-fit Battleship on stationary targets like another Dreadnaught in siege mode?
'shitty'
dreads out of siege are useless, they deal like 3-400 dps without drones
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.04.27 05:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tiberyya Za How does a unsieged Dreadnaught compare vs. a T2-fit Battleship on stationary targets like another Dreadnaught in siege mode?
The t2-fit bs will win except for a fully skilled moros with fully skilled drones. An unsieged dread is mostly worthless except as a decoy/bait. The bs will be more useful, cheapier, and easier to skill for.
A dread only does its thing in siege mode against a massive target that cannot move.
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Laur Khal
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Posted - 2009.05.04 01:02:00 -
[26]
does moros' drones do their normal, full damage when in siege mode?
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.05.04 01:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Laur Khal does moros' drones do their normal, full damage when in siege mode?
Full bonus dmg in and out of siege.
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ArcDragon
Caldari FUSION INDUSTRIES
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:23:00 -
[28]
/bump
If it has a SAVE button...I'm not interested. |
RedeyeAce
Caldari Faulcon de Lazy
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:02:00 -
[29]
with the Nag's recent changes, can you show how it fairs in the lineup nowadays please.
Thanks, Red
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar Dusty Death Enterprise Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: RedeyeAce with the Nag's recent changes, can you show how it fairs in the lineup nowadays please.
Thanks, Red
shhhhh, don't talk about the nag
this is the first time in a long while that minmatar has been boosted, don't jinx it
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