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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.21 20:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: NoNah
Actually, they need to be within 40-42km for efficient salvaging anyway, so you either have to intercept them at double speed or cruise towards their wreck when they're popped. And it's rather rare for missions to have all spawns start outside javelin range, if there's something to remove while you aggro that group it's virtually no time lost.
NoNah, just curious, but which marauders do you fly these days?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:30:00 -
[32]
Best is the Vargur.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: NoNah
Actually, they need to be within 40-42km for efficient salvaging anyway, so you either have to intercept them at double speed or cruise towards their wreck when they're popped. And it's rather rare for missions to have all spawns start outside javelin range, if there's something to remove while you aggro that group it's virtually no time lost.
NoNah, just curious, but which marauders do you fly these days?
-Liang
Depends on the task... But yeah, pulses for paladin, torps for golem, rails for kronos and AC's for Vargur. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 890183
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:48:00 -
[34]
ISK/Hour, then use a Golem and a Nightmare/Paladin. Paladin/Nightmare make less isk/hour than a Golem on non-blood/sansha lvl4's.
Thats about it really. Blood or Sansha Lvl4's and Paladin/Nightmare melts through them. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.03.21 21:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: v00d003 loose the ccc and use range rigs. This will enable you to hit any npc that orbits the 50km plus range. Loose the afterburner and replace it with a shield amp. The xl booster can be replaced with a large booster especial if you have implants.Just Remember caldari ships like to have active shields mods and implants are your best friend.BTW I can salvage and loot while I engage the enemy,so its hardly slow boating, making more isk maybe but not slow boating.
If you read what I quoted you would see why I fit an afterburner. Just tossed together a fit in under a minute so yeah range rigs might be better (used to having guns that eat cap these days ) _________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.03.21 22:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Gul Rashen My Paladin and Golem missiontimes against Sanshas and Bloods are ~equal. Against all others my Golem is faster.
This cant be true, not even slightly.
Paladin outruns a Golem in ANY case against BR/EOM/Mercs/Sansha/Drones.
The simple fact that you can snipe and insta Pop Frigates and Cruiser beats out the Golem already by far in terms of speed.
And i dont think we need to start talking about the price of Javs, that reduces the money a lot per mission.
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Mystafyre
Caldari First Clan Corp FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:13:00 -
[37]
Originally by: booblop Was wondering what you all think the "best" marauder would be for running missions. I don't care about play style comments, just want to know which is the absolute best on paper. Which one is best for making the most money missioning.
Thanks in advance, and post away!
Golem. Missiles. Relaxed way and most efficient. Always the optimal DPS.
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Mystafyre
Caldari First Clan Corp FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: fuxinos
Originally by: Gul Rashen My Paladin and Golem missiontimes against Sanshas and Bloods are ~equal. Against all others my Golem is faster.
This cant be true, not even slightly.
Paladin outruns a Golem in ANY case against BR/EOM/Mercs/Sansha/Drones.
The simple fact that you can snipe and insta Pop Frigates and Cruiser beats out the Golem already by far in terms of speed.
And i dont think we need to start talking about the price of Javs, that reduces the money a lot per mission.
Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:32:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 21/03/2009 23:33:21
Originally by: Mystafyre Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
But you are done too slow. It's not a waste to pop small stuff with main guns.
I'm now down to 9 minutes of time spent out of warp in the main mission room in Sansha Pie Invasion with the Nightmare, as a personal best. Let's see your (or anyones) Golem beat that. I know my Golem can't.
Paladin might no be quite the ship the Nightmare is, when it comes to killing speed, but it should be close.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.03.21 23:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mystafyre
Originally by: fuxinos
Originally by: Gul Rashen My Paladin and Golem missiontimes against Sanshas and Bloods are ~equal. Against all others my Golem is faster.
This cant be true, not even slightly.
Paladin outruns a Golem in ANY case against BR/EOM/Mercs/Sansha/Drones.
The simple fact that you can snipe and insta Pop Frigates and Cruiser beats out the Golem already by far in terms of speed.
And i dont think we need to start talking about the price of Javs, that reduces the money a lot per mission.
Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
Sadly that's rarely the case they match that well. You're normally done with BS/BC's before drones even chewed through frigates. Destroyers go quick with either, and cruisers are about matchable in speed with drones or missiles - but still slow.
I guess it might work if you salvage everything, including frigates, but in that case you're normally better of with a CNR and salvageboat or something similar. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 305434
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.03.22 11:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: NoNah
That's where mission completion and mission killing time differs. The nightmare is often faster att killing, but if you want it salvaged, it's Paladin all the way. And once you go that route, the difference between paladin and golem isn't that hysterically huge, it's still noticable, but not huge.
Aye, I get what you mean, but mission completion is the wrong term to use, surely. Not the least because we have this button to press, "Complete", which "completes the mission".
A majority (not counted 'em, just feels like a majority) of the missions just aren't worth salvaging, like, all the crappy missions. Still, I do salvage what I can on the spot sometimes, when using a Marauder. Sometimes do the ball of wrecks too, but so many of the Sansha / Blood missions I get the ships start out at too far distance to be worth salvaging.
I've been wanting to get a Paladin to complement the Nightmare, but giving up that 4th HS and the slightly better tracking & range, for 40km tractors and a cargobay, just...is something I'm hesitant to do. If you could fit 4x T2 Tachs + Hwy Cap booster on it without fitting mods, then maybe. (Those 'Ballista' tachs are a bit short on damage output for my taste, so going Cosmos is no good either.)
I do have a nice Pulse fit I could use, only 26 dps less and 13-14% worse tracking then the Pulse Nightmare, but Pulse is only better for two missions (of the ones I get), Damsel and Sansha Vengeance. That kind of expenditure for just two missions seems a bit...wasteful, to me.
When considering L5's, it's even worse, as buffer shield tanks rule supreme, well, perhaps a bit of an overstatement, but they can fit more damage mods.
Regardless, I'll probably get one sooner or later anyway. Even if it just ends up sitting beside the Rail Kronos, collecting dust.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.22 14:44:00 -
[42]
Paladin vs golem is just a silly way of comparing.
For people to have fun, they can use any ship they want. I did a single lvl4 in a punisher 2 years ago (back when there used to be a lvl4 that had 2 cruisers as a enemy).
And I have done a lvl5 solo a couple of weeks ago in a hac ("Light out" lvl5 is actually is about as hard as a lvl3 mission. Lol)
If people want isk/hour - then golem and paladin/nightmare rule. Paladin/Nightmare for blood/sansha and golem for the rest. Simple maths really. If people want to play for fun - then use whatever you want. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2009.03.22 15:10:00 -
[43]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 21/03/2009 23:33:21
Originally by: Mystafyre Paladin dont outrun Golem. Why to waste your main weapons to frigs and cruisers?
Missiles to BS/BC and drones to des/cruiser/frigs and you're done.
But you are done too slow. It's not a waste to pop small stuff with main guns.
I'm now down to 9 minutes of time spent out of warp in the main mission room in Sansha Pie Invasion with the Nightmare, as a personal best. Let's see your (or anyones) Golem beat that. I know my Golem can't.
Paladin might no be quite the ship the Nightmare is, when it comes to killing speed, but it should be close.
That's where mission completion and mission killing time differs. The nightmare is often faster att killing, but if you want it salvaged, it's Paladin all the way. And once you go that route, the difference between paladin and golem isn't that hysterically huge, it's still noticable, but not huge.
This is it. That's why I alternate Paladin/Nightmare/CNR on my alt. On certain missions the loot isn't worth crap and I want range/speed. Then I use a Nightmare with Sensor Booster or AB fitted. In other missions I instapop frigs/cruisers at range with the Paladin and then kill stuff >40km so I can tractor/loot while slowboating to gates/killing the last things. In certain cases the tracking disruption is just too heavy even with multiple tracking comps/max skill so I just use the CNR.
All tested, that's how I get the best speed out of it. And I never go back to loot afterwards btw, I only loot what gets in range of my Paladin. In case of the Blockade, I get ~60-75% of the loot/salvage from the warp in. In the AE I get all salvage and most loot (cargo bay fills up). Pirate Invasion/Vengeance I kill the small crap at range and loot the BS while taking them down. In Gone Berserk I get all salvage/loot, just like Damsel in Distress. Most other missions the loot/salvage isn't worth the time and is either run by Nightmare or CNR.
But anycase, there's situations where it's perfectly reasonable to fire at frigs at range. It pulls things closer to you for salvage/loot and you don't have to come back - same time as the salvage/loot actually is worth the little extra time over the Nightmare running it. -
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.22 16:47:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 22/03/2009 16:54:00
Originally by: Qui Shon
I'm now down to 9 minutes of time spent out of warp in the main mission room in Sansha Pie Invasion with the Nightmare, as a personal best. Let's see your (or anyones) Golem beat that. I know my Golem can't.
Never stopped only the Main Room. My time using only Javelins + 1 PWNAGE TP and T2 BCS was 17mins for the whole Mission(warpin-warpout). Using CNs or T1-Torps for the NPCs <42km and 2 TPs+CN-BCS may boost the Missiontime 3 or 4 minutes.
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Tractory
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Posted - 2009.03.23 08:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xapharia
Originally by: NoNah Hmm, funny statement imho, how is it overtanked once you get atleast 2 tps and a ab on it? Got any decent fitting?
Reason I don't like the Golem is it has crappy range with torps without T2 ammo, and even with T2 ammo it has to chase the NPCs around when they orbit outside your range. I shoot a lot of long-range BS that orbit out to 60km, and with lasers I can just go for crystals with better range if I have to. Outside torp range you also deal 0 damage, while lasers just loose a bit of their damage to gain the extra range needed to pop those pesky NPCs orbiting that structure 100km away. Plus you use up half your cargo with all the missiles you have to carry around.
I realize that you are exaggerating to make a point but half your cargo bay full of torps is just ridiculous. I rarely undock with more than 1200 torps onboard for a lvl 4. And if range is going to be an issue, and lets be honest you should know what you are facing if you are taking a golem into a lvl 4, then just leave it docked and bring out your dusty cruise fitted CNR, im sure most golem pilots have one sat at their mission hub, and probably faction fit too ;)
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.03.23 09:17:00 -
[46]
Golem for sure many dont understand that the point of the golem is to fit 2 target painters and torps and insta pop any bc/cruiser with alpha dmg. you dont need to perma tank, just enough to kill of the enemies fast, nevertheless it will easily tank 1000+ dps for several minutes.
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Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Terianna Eri I say the Paladin. Tachyons have wonderful damage against most targets and in my experience blow though even things like lowend gurista and angel BS with ease. Plus you can switch to pulse lasers if you have missions at very short range, and 15km pulse optimal + 14-15km web is a nice combo.
It also has a really awesome capacitor and doesn't need any pimping on the tank at all to be good.
Unfortunately with T2 Tachyons it lacks the grid to fit even a single T2 Large Armor Rep, you'll need to use a faction one. While it's worth the investment, it is a bit annoying that you'll need to add 400 million or so to the price of the ship since it can't use a T2 rep with its biggest guns.
Which is also why I don't understand why the Kronos has enough grid to easily fit a Dual T2 Large Armor Rep layout even with its biggest guns.
YOU ARE WRONG fitting 4 neutron II's and dual lars even faction ones leaves u no grid at all no ab no cap booster, tbh i think kronos and paladin need more grid.
Originally by: Khornne First fact ist that Marauders are PVE ships.
The Golem is the best one of those because it can adapt to any mission/plex you run in terms of damage.
It's that simple.
YOU ARE ALSO WRONG kronos and paladin are awesome pvpships the 100's of kills i've had in these ships proves it
I don't pve very often but if ur doing lv4 missions i would suspect that the golem would be the best due to its bouns but i would go for kronos its fast with an ab tanks awesome and dose great dps i guess u could fit 425's and use ur drones on the frigs.
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Paisley Snatch
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:23:00 -
[48]
I don't know about the best but I use a Torp Golem and its a lot of fun. For drone and mainly cruiser/frig missions I use the Nighthawk.
A couple corp mates use the Paladin and like it a lot too so you probably can't go wrong. I never really hear of anyone flying the Kronos. There might be a reason for that.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rivur'Tam YOU ARE ALSO WRONG kronos and paladin are awesome pvpships the 100's of kills i've had in these ships proves it
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:40:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Misanth
This is it. That's why I alternate Paladin/Nightmare/CNR on my alt. On certain missions the loot isn't worth crap and I want range/speed. Then I use a Nightmare with Sensor Booster or AB fitted. In other missions I instapop frigs/cruisers at range with the Paladin and then kill stuff >40km so I can tractor/loot while slowboating to gates/killing the last things. In certain cases the tracking disruption is just too heavy even with multiple tracking comps/max skill so I just use the CNR.
All tested, that's how I get the best speed out of it. And I never go back to loot afterwards btw, I only loot what gets in range of my Paladin. In case of the Blockade, I get ~60-75% of the loot/salvage from the warp in. In the AE I get all salvage and most loot (cargo bay fills up). Pirate Invasion/Vengeance I kill the small crap at range and loot the BS while taking them down. In Gone Berserk I get all salvage/loot, just like Damsel in Distress. Most other missions the loot/salvage isn't worth the time and is either run by Nightmare or CNR.
But anycase, there's situations where it's perfectly reasonable to fire at frigs at range. It pulls things closer to you for salvage/loot and you don't have to come back - same time as the salvage/loot actually is worth the little extra time over the Nightmare running it.
Actually, I was running some missions on my Raven recently for purposes of gathering times in a "Drake is better than Raven at L4's" thread, and I'm starting to be of the opinion that a Raven might actually be a better mission runner than the CNR for this express reason - you have two highs for tractor/salvager where the CNR only has room for a tractor.
It'll require alot more study before I can come to any conclusions based on it. Maybe I should ask in the missions forum to see if anyone's done it already....
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Paisley Snatch I don't know about the best but I use a Torp Golem and its a lot of fun. For drone and mainly cruiser/frig missions I use the Nighthawk.
A couple corp mates use the Paladin and like it a lot too so you probably can't go wrong. I never really hear of anyone flying the Kronos. There might be a reason for that.
One of my corpmates flies the Kronos for missions... My Paladin does everything just as fast, and we do missions for the gallente :P __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Mercurye
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:06:00 -
[52]
What about a Vargur? I am quite keen on learning to skill up for one
Artillery plus a scripted Tracking Computer looks good ..but is it good enough? ^^ --~--~--~--~ ~NOTE: Freak~ |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mercurye What about a Vargur? I am quite keen on learning to skill up for one
Artillery plus a scripted Tracking Computer looks good ..but is it good enough? ^^
Did they boost its grid while I wasn't looking?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Mercurye
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:20:00 -
[54]
Dont know...never had one...
I take it the grid is lacking? ^^;) --~--~--~--~ ~NOTE: Freak~ |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:22:00 -
[55]
Just slightly.... |
Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:28:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tractory I realize that you are exaggerating to make a point but half your cargo bay full of torps is just ridiculous. I rarely undock with more than 1200 torps onboard for a lvl 4. And if range is going to be an issue, and lets be honest you should know what you are facing if you are taking a golem into a lvl 4, then just leave it docked and bring out your dusty cruise fitted CNR, im sure most golem pilots have one sat at their mission hub, and probably faction fit too ;)
I am considering places and circumstances where you can't simply dock up when you want in the statement about filling the cargo with torps. Some might call it risky but I find marauders to be very useful for 0.0 ratting/missions too, at which point the number of stations rapidly goes down and the ammo cost goes up rapidly.
As for the issue of range, yes you can always fit cruise on your Golem and gimp your damage nicely. As you suggest there is always the CNR, which only has 1 extra high-slot for utility, forcing you to choose either salvager or tractor if you want to keep looting/salvaging the wrecks (along with no tractor bonus). Lastly, if I moved from CNR to Golem I would also transfer all the useful faction fitting over to my new shiny ship, and most people don't want to waste time moving it back to the dust-collector for one mission. _________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Shatner19
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:28:00 -
[57]
for the vargur: a rcu2 plus 4 faction 1200mm guns will fit with a pretty nice tank. optimal fitting is to use 800mm AC's since it gets a nice bonus to falloff, I think you cant get up to 60Km falloff on AC's. and dps is significantly higher.
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Rivur'Tam
the united
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Rivur'Tam YOU ARE ALSO WRONG kronos and paladin are awesome pvpships the 100's of kills i've had in these ships proves it
I presume u are agreeing with me i think its sad that these awesome ships are wasted on mission running, The kronos which i use, its epic it out dps a mega, out tanks a hyp, Has a massive cargo bay for loot and cap boosters.
I've yet to come across a single bs that can break my tank or even make me use the second repper
It dose have the weak sensor strength but a falcon will jam any bs, I fit 2 med faction smartbombs that make short work of ecm drones.
Sure it will die if u get blobbed but what won't,
But in small scale pvp not much can beat it.
Plus the kronos looks awesome and it may cost as much as 7 megas but its only isk and thats easy to come by nowadays.
look here proof i use it in pvp all the time
119 kills wiv kronos
If anyone wants a fit hit me up ingame.
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2009.03.24 03:20:00 -
[59]
I am still confused why people insist on artillery for the Vargur. Rails and Tachs work well on the other gun boat marauders, but don't gimp a setup with bad damage and bad tracking by using artillery on a Vargur.
If you aren't using ACs on a Vargur, you're doing it wrong.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:10:00 -
[60]
Originally by: EFT Warrior I am still confused why people insist on artillery for the Vargur. Rails and Tachs work well on the other gun boat marauders, but don't gimp a setup with bad damage and bad tracking by using artillery on a Vargur.
If you aren't using ACs on a Vargur, you're doing it wrong.
Stop now , or everybody starts using vargur :(
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