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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Selim on 19/08/2004 06:38:36 I feel that there is no need to explain in detail that having a MWD on frigate should not be a no-brainer module as it is now. Right now you fit a mwd, or you dont fight. Because if you do you're going to die to any missiles, you will be swarmed by frigates who DO have mwds and will web and warp scramble and destroy you. This isnt right; there should never be a module which MUST be used. Not even close to it. I'd like to be able to fit a frigate for fighting that doesnt have a mwd and expect it to survive a 1v1 with another frig, interceptor, cruiser or battleship or what have you.
What I'd like to see done: - is have the missile agility changes implemented like they were supposed to over a month ago... This would allow a frigate to avoid being pummeled by missiles without needing to fit a mwd to try and outrun them. BIG plus for frigates and frigate setups. Cruises, Torps, and heavy missiles (to a lesser extent) would have serious trouble hitting a frigate, not because they cant match the speed but because of their agility. You'd still be able to be hit, but only if you're moving in a straight line. Rockets and Light missiles would become even more useful. - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible. Only frigates can do this currently, cruisers and battleships cant, so why should frigates be able to run a mwd constantly? This would help alleviate the balance between a frigate with a mwd and one without, without completely nerfing the thing.
- increasing the powergrid to 25 for a mwd. This would reduce the offensive power of a mwding frigate so that it can only fit the weaker weapons, again giving a bonus to non-mwd using frigates.
This wouldnt nerf frigate pilots at all - as a matter of fact, it would HELP frigate pilots. We wouldnt need to fit a mwd anymore but we'd still be able to, if we want to make a catch frigate with a stasis web + warp scrambler. It would make afterburners useful, we wouldnt have to outrun heavy missiles. We may even start deciding to fit a shield booster to defend against rockets and lights, which would be fast enough and agile enough to hit us.
This encourages more diversity in frigate setups and gets rid of the boring mwd no-brainer, replacing it with a new MWD that you can fit if you want the benefits of extreme speed, with the drawback of less cap, shields, and offensive power.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Selim on 19/08/2004 06:38:36 I feel that there is no need to explain in detail that having a MWD on frigate should not be a no-brainer module as it is now. Right now you fit a mwd, or you dont fight. Because if you do you're going to die to any missiles, you will be swarmed by frigates who DO have mwds and will web and warp scramble and destroy you. This isnt right; there should never be a module which MUST be used. Not even close to it. I'd like to be able to fit a frigate for fighting that doesnt have a mwd and expect it to survive a 1v1 with another frig, interceptor, cruiser or battleship or what have you.
What I'd like to see done: - is have the missile agility changes implemented like they were supposed to over a month ago... This would allow a frigate to avoid being pummeled by missiles without needing to fit a mwd to try and outrun them. BIG plus for frigates and frigate setups. Cruises, Torps, and heavy missiles (to a lesser extent) would have serious trouble hitting a frigate, not because they cant match the speed but because of their agility. You'd still be able to be hit, but only if you're moving in a straight line. Rockets and Light missiles would become even more useful. - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible. Only frigates can do this currently, cruisers and battleships cant, so why should frigates be able to run a mwd constantly? This would help alleviate the balance between a frigate with a mwd and one without, without completely nerfing the thing.
- increasing the powergrid to 25 for a mwd. This would reduce the offensive power of a mwding frigate so that it can only fit the weaker weapons, again giving a bonus to non-mwd using frigates.
This wouldnt nerf frigate pilots at all - as a matter of fact, it would HELP frigate pilots. We wouldnt need to fit a mwd anymore but we'd still be able to, if we want to make a catch frigate with a stasis web + warp scrambler. It would make afterburners useful, we wouldnt have to outrun heavy missiles. We may even start deciding to fit a shield booster to defend against rockets and lights, which would be fast enough and agile enough to hit us.
This encourages more diversity in frigate setups and gets rid of the boring mwd no-brainer, replacing it with a new MWD that you can fit if you want the benefits of extreme speed, with the drawback of less cap, shields, and offensive power.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:43:00 -
[3]
but things would go soooo slow then :-( Ive tried tech II 1mn ABs on a rifter, and the thing is incredibely slow. I could never stand travelling like that, or engaging in battle at such slow speeds. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:43:00 -
[4]
but things would go soooo slow then :-( Ive tried tech II 1mn ABs on a rifter, and the thing is incredibely slow. I could never stand travelling like that, or engaging in battle at such slow speeds. ................. |
Logan West
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:44:00 -
[5]
Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
"I solemnly swear never to camp a spawn, to twink a mule, to farm a mob. I will not beg for nerfs, or macro for money. I am a gamer, and I swear to have fun."
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Logan West
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:44:00 -
[6]
Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
"I solemnly swear never to camp a spawn, to twink a mule, to farm a mob. I will not beg for nerfs, or macro for money. I am a gamer, and I swear to have fun."
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Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:46:00 -
[7]
well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher Interstellat Cartographic League - Cen Varis |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:46:00 -
[8]
well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher Interstellat Cartographic League - Cen Varis |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cen Varis well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher
Then they would never get hit by turrets, ever. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cen Varis well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher
Then they would never get hit by turrets, ever. ................. |
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD. ................. |
Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD.
Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD.
Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Selim Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
Thing is you havent tried an assault frigate yet :-P
And secondly, assaults frigates have extreme range, any interceptor that trys to stay out of webber range will still easily get hit by the assaults turrets because of the nice 50% optimal bonus the ships get, and the fact that they can tank like crazy(even with their limited CPU)
Thing with Frigates and MWDs, no... a frigate with a MWD will not kill you. It completely depends on your fighting style. Also Yeah your right, missiles will instgank any non MWDing frigate which sucks... Assault frigates *might* be able to deal with it though by having the missiles only do 30dmg to them per hit with their 90%+ Resistances(If you can get them that high with their limited CPU) ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Selim Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
Thing is you havent tried an assault frigate yet :-P
And secondly, assaults frigates have extreme range, any interceptor that trys to stay out of webber range will still easily get hit by the assaults turrets because of the nice 50% optimal bonus the ships get, and the fact that they can tank like crazy(even with their limited CPU)
Thing with Frigates and MWDs, no... a frigate with a MWD will not kill you. It completely depends on your fighting style. Also Yeah your right, missiles will instgank any non MWDing frigate which sucks... Assault frigates *might* be able to deal with it though by having the missiles only do 30dmg to them per hit with their 90%+ Resistances(If you can get them that high with their limited CPU) ................. |
Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:33:00 -
[19]
The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:33:00 -
[20]
The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lansfear The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
not really.
500% sig penalty is needed because of tracking changes added to turrets.
25% cap penalty is so the damned things cant be run 24/7 while tanking at the same time
25% shield penalty... is probally a relic from before the 500% sig penalty was implemented... it hurts shield tankers waay to much, especially people who want to shield tank frigats and I think out of all the penalties this one should be removed. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lansfear The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
not really.
500% sig penalty is needed because of tracking changes added to turrets.
25% cap penalty is so the damned things cant be run 24/7 while tanking at the same time
25% shield penalty... is probally a relic from before the 500% sig penalty was implemented... it hurts shield tankers waay to much, especially people who want to shield tank frigats and I think out of all the penalties this one should be removed. ................. |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.19 09:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Selim - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible.
Too funny! Now, what was this post about again?
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.19 09:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Selim - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible.
Too funny! Now, what was this post about again?
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Broc Vallion
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:37:00 -
[25]
Guns are a must have too for that matter..........how do we get rid of them and still fight?
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Broc Vallion
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:37:00 -
[26]
Guns are a must have too for that matter..........how do we get rid of them and still fight?
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:49:00 -
[27]
although the missile aginlty will not be implemented (deemed not workable), the "Damage based on target SigRadius" proposal will help the Assault frigates immensely. Not needing to strap on an MWD, they have a sigradius of around 30, which will ensure that big missiles do very little damage. Combined with their tanking porential, missiles shouldn't be an issue.
That's the theory, in any case.
Join the IC! |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:49:00 -
[28]
although the missile aginlty will not be implemented (deemed not workable), the "Damage based on target SigRadius" proposal will help the Assault frigates immensely. Not needing to strap on an MWD, they have a sigradius of around 30, which will ensure that big missiles do very little damage. Combined with their tanking porential, missiles shouldn't be an issue.
That's the theory, in any case.
Join the IC! |
Khe Zen'al'Zar
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Posted - 2004.08.19 12:01:00 -
[29]
i dont agree with the PG increase, you sacrifice a med slot anyway
but, i agree with changing missiles so an MWD/10mn ab is no longer a must have, and boosting the cap need so you cant run it 24/7, atleast not without heavy problems (high skills + 2-3 relays)
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Khe Zen'al'Zar
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Posted - 2004.08.19 12:01:00 -
[30]
i dont agree with the PG increase, you sacrifice a med slot anyway
but, i agree with changing missiles so an MWD/10mn ab is no longer a must have, and boosting the cap need so you cant run it 24/7, atleast not without heavy problems (high skills + 2-3 relays)
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