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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:07:00 -
[1]
Hi all
I've been working throughout the day on Sisi working through and recording the various stages of Tech III production.
The first draft of that work is here.
I still have a few things to do and a few holes to fill in but the main body is present.
If you can fill in a few holes (like where exactly Ancient Relics come from (IE salvage, hacking sites or NPC drops etc)) I would appreciate it.
I've concentrated on the 2 main areas Polymer reactions and Reverse Engineering as they seem to be the most asked about.
Anyway it's very late and I'm shattered.
Catch you later.
PS. The work was done on Sisi and I am aware there maybe changes applied to the reverse engineering process that haven't hit TQ yet, so some things maybe slightly different. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:14:00 -
[2]
Temp glue applied.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email |
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Xessej
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Posted - 2009.03.24 03:35:00 -
[3]
Ancient relics are found in magnetometric sites in w space. They're in the cans that need an analyzer to open.
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:10:00 -
[4]
One question; the only thing I can't figure out is what is the loot that sleepers drop for? --
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donęt forget the reach-around.
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AdmiralDovolski
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.03.25 03:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Haradgrim One question; the only thing I can't figure out is what is the loot that sleepers drop for?
the NPC's buy them
they are the sleeper bounties, per se
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Obsequious Woe
Caldari Wicked Weasels
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Posted - 2009.03.26 12:09:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Obsequious Woe on 26/03/2009 12:09:43
Originally by: Xessej Ancient relics are found in magnetometric sites in w space. They're in the cans that need an analyzer to open.
I just picked one up in an radar site .. was in a can called frigate wreck .. needed a salvager to open it.
OW
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ChaosnFun
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Posted - 2009.03.26 16:16:00 -
[7]
http://rapidshare.com/files/213806331/Tactical_Cruiser.rar Full material list with some rarity hints
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.28 20:31:00 -
[8]
Nice guide!
This might be helpful: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1023574 Feel free to include it in your guide! ____________
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.03.31 10:48:00 -
[9]
Thanks for the replies and suggestions, the section is still undergoing changes and fine tuning. I am learning this as I'm going along as always which can be a great insight into it (or completely miss something ). --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more |
Drenick
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Posted - 2009.04.09 11:59:00 -
[10]
Excellent work Braaage...as always.
Did you have incredible luck when you were reverse engineering the hulls? Getting five successes out of six attempts? And each one was a three run BPC. Any idea if using the lower level malfunctioning and wrecked hulls have a reduced chance of success or maybe a lower run BPC result? I.E. Malfunctioning = 2 run BPC Wrecked = 1 run...
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.09 13:11:00 -
[11]
No the malfuntioning and wrecked relics still give 3 run bpcs when successful. The % chance of success is reduced on the malfunctioning relics (from the Intact ones) and even more reduced on the wrecked relics.
So no not number of runs reduced but chance of success reduced. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Mistress Maker
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Posted - 2009.04.14 06:45:00 -
[12]
thanks
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2009.04.16 23:50:00 -
[13]
Are all the items you put into a reverse engineering job consumed? Especially also the ancient relics ("intact...", "malfunctioning...", "wrecked...")? Or do they work like data interfaces in invention which can be used infinitely? Your video seems to indicate that everything is comsumed but I'd like to be sure.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.17 08:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kolmogorow Are all the items you put into a reverse engineering job consumed? Especially also the ancient relics ("intact...", "malfunctioning...", "wrecked...")? Or do they work like data interfaces in invention which can be used infinitely? Your video seems to indicate that everything is comsumed but I'd like to be sure.
Everything in a reverse engineering job is consumed. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2009.04.17 13:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Braaage Everything in a reverse engineering job is consumed.
Thank you, also for all your helpful information and the big amount of time you spent for testing!
Seems that T3 production requires a lot of careful calculation if it will be profitable at all. I saw on the market that there are buy orders for more than 300 Mil per single "intact" relic. That's a way to big frustration if a reverse engineering job fails. Strong nerves and a solid wallet of liquid capital seem to be necessary to start with this business.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.17 14:04:00 -
[16]
Intacts are too expensive, I just spent 3.2B to run 18 rev eng jobs (9 each on propulsion and offensive) using malfunctioning relics.
So far 1 success out of 10 ........ and people wonder why the subsystems are so expensive. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.04.19 16:29:00 -
[17]
Add this to your guide:
If you reverse-engineer intact relicts, you sometimes get back a WRECKED relict on failure.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.24 00:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tres Farmer Add this to your guide:
If you reverse-engineer intact relicts, you sometimes get back a WRECKED relict on failure.
Thanks for that, been working on a new RE video and as it happens I got one from an Intact relic in the video --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Komen
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.04.25 21:29:00 -
[19]
Thank you for the guide, looks very well done.
And, question: Does the skill 'Sleeper Technology' fit into the production chain, anywhere?
Or did I just blow 120 mil?
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.25 21:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Komen Thank you for the guide, looks very well done.
And, question: Does the skill 'Sleeper Technology' fit into the production chain, anywhere?
Or did I just blow 120 mil?
You just blew 120M that's for manufacturing the utterly overpriced Cosmos stuff. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
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Komen
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.04.26 23:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Braaage
Originally by: Komen Thank you for the guide, looks very well done.
And, question: Does the skill 'Sleeper Technology' fit into the production chain, anywhere?
Or did I just blow 120 mil?
You just blew 120M that's for manufacturing the utterly overpriced Cosmos stuff.
Note to self:
Read forums, then hit market.
Thanks again Braaaage, for your answer and your very helpful guide. Alas I won't be industrating T3 stuff, not when lo-sec POSes and mining gas clouds in w-space are involved. Anyways, more fun trying to solo sleepers. In a HAC.
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Doctero
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Posted - 2009.04.29 15:31:00 -
[22]
In regards to the polymer reaction page, I'd recommend using a Coupling Array rather than a Silo, since it fits much better, and you're never going to need that much room for minerals vs fullerite capacity/supply.
Also, the entire reactor fits on a medium tower with plenty of room to spare for defenses and such. Unless you need more than about 80% of the power and 15% of the CPU to fuel your guns and such?
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:50:00 -
[23]
Braaage, do you have any new results about the effect of the RE skill and the 5 subsystem technology skills on RE job success rate? As far as I can see there is nothing what requires more than having level 1 of those skills (even not manufacturing subsystems), or did I miss something? If the skill level doesn't affect RE success there seems to be no reason to train the skills beyond level 1.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.29 19:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kolmogorow Braaage, do you have any new results about the effect of the RE skill and the 5 subsystem technology skills on RE job success rate? As far as I can see there is nothing what requires more than having level 1 of those skills (even not manufacturing subsystems), or did I miss something? If the skill level doesn't affect RE success there seems to be no reason to train the skills beyond level 1.
Because we don't know the success rate formula it's extremely difficult to tell if the skills make an difference. I have asked the question by email and by forum post but it seems CCP doesn't want to tell us. Who said being a dev playing didn't have any advantages --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2009.04.29 20:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Braaage I have asked the question by email and by forum post but it seems CCP doesn't want to tell us.
...which is quite strange considering that other skills tell us 5% increased chance for salvaging, x% increased chance for this and that. Well, maybe training the skills to the usual level 4 might be a good choice, just to be on the safe side not to waste to much on those expensive RE jobs due to low skills. And if the higher levels don't have a purpose today then hopefully in future (maybe for T3 Strategic Titan manufacturing? ).
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.04.30 11:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 30/04/2009 11:57:22
The skills do make a difference.. although it's to early for me, that I could give a 5% error margin formula, especially for the higher levels of the skills. Last week sisi wasn't available due to DEV-mode and guess what we also got a new mirror on top of that too just yesterday. I will need 2 weeks to get the skills where I got them 12hrs before the mirror (already with 5+imps and remapped for science, at least this I made on TQ after the mirror was taken).
So far I conducted 1.000 samples, where each resulting data point is backed up by 200 samples:
-wrecked, rev engin lvl1, subs skill lvl1, sci skill lvl3 -malfunc, rev engin lvl1, subs skill lvl1, sci skill lvl3 -intact, rev engin lvl1, subs skill lvl1, sci skill lvl3 -wrecked, rev engin lvl2, subs skill lvl2, sci skill lvl3 -wrecked, rev engin lvl3, subs skill lvl3, sci skill lvl3
I'll need 5-7 more data points with 200 samples each (bolded ones priority):
-wrecked, rev engin lvl1, subs skill lvl2, sci skill lvl3 -wrecked, rev engin lvl1, subs skill lvl3, sci skill lvl3 -wrecked, rev engin lvl2, subs skill lvl1, sci skill lvl3 -wrecked, rev engin lvl3, subs skill lvl1, sci skill lvl3 -wrecked, rev engin lvl4, subs skill lvl4, sci skill lvl3 -malfunc, rev engin lvl4, subs skill lvl4, sci skill lvl3 -intact, rev engin lvl4, subs skill lvl4, sci skill lvl3
So, if somebody wants to help me speed up the process of acquiring this data.. drop me an ingame mail (on Tranquilty) or raise your hand here.
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Josehpine
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Posted - 2009.05.01 13:06:00 -
[27]
wow, nice work tres!
but could please set up some numbers on the y axis of the pic? Im guessing that every line means 10 % success chance, but would be nice to be sure. thanks!
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.01 15:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Josehpine wow, nice work tres!
thx
Originally by: Josehpine but could please set up some numbers on the y axis of the pic? Im guessing that every line means 10 % success chance, but would be nice to be sure. thanks!
its out of excel.. I don't know how to do that
..
no, just kidding, I removed it on purpose.. let's phrase it this way - it's a time consuming work and I really don't want the 0815-crowd to overtake for free ;) Just look at invention. Data like the ones from above brings certainty into gambling (that's why I collect it) and on a huge scale pulls down margins. And I really like margins..
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Josehpine
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Posted - 2009.05.01 17:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 01/05/2009 16:46:17
Originally by: Josehpine wow, nice work tres!
thx
Originally by: Josehpine but could please set up some numbers on the y axis of the pic? Im guessing that every line means 10 % success chance, but would be nice to be sure. thanks!
its out of excel.. I don't know how to do that
..
no, just kidding, I removed it on purpose.. let's phrase it this way - it's a time consuming work and I really don't want the 0815-crowd to overtake for free ;) Just look at invention. Data like the ones from above brings certainty into gambling (that's why I collect it) and on a huge scale pulls down margins. And I really like margins..
i could have guessed that anwser. :)
Ill probably find you the real numbers soon on my own. but its still good to see the ratios between wrecked/malf/intact. and yea, margins are cool
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:30:00 -
[30]
some update on my samples..
As sisi was mirrored recently I took the chance to investigate the dependency of the overall chance from the 3 skill groups (rev/subsys skills @ lvl 1 again). By now I conducted 800 more samples and can say that reverse engineering isn't the important skill for the overall chance, like racial encryption methods is for invention. I'll need 400 more samples to be sure though.
I'm also unsure about the base chances.. from my point of view they had been risen a bit as my estimations from before mirror and after mirror wont match as good as before.. (at least 4 mini-patches on sisi since then). Well, I'll find out when I have all samples (400 + 600).
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.05.17 16:14:00 -
[31]
Please consider porting this over to the EVElopedia.
We are due a sticky thread review and it is our policy to keep stickies fresh.
Anything that is stuck for a longer period of time should be placed on the EVElopedia, to make updating them easier.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:29:00 -
[32]
Unsticky it if you want Mitnal, I sent a "report" post ages ago saying to do so but not sure if it was read or if the report option shows who sent it in. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Josehpine
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Posted - 2009.05.17 21:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tres Farmer some update on my samples..
As sisi was mirrored recently I took the chance to investigate the dependency of the overall chance from the 3 skill groups (rev/subsys skills @ lvl 1 again). By now I conducted 800 more samples and can say that reverse engineering isn't the important skill for the overall chance, like racial encryption methods is for invention. I'll need 400 more samples to be sure though.
I'm also unsure about the base chances.. from my point of view they had been risen a bit as my estimations from before mirror and after mirror wont match as good as before.. (at least 4 mini-patches on sisi since then). Well, I'll find out when I have all samples (400 + 600).
hey, just something that jumped to my mind lately due to my rev eng successes, but maybe you could have a look at it cause your statistics is much higher. Do you get a pretty even number for all 4 different subsytems per category after alot of successfull rev eng jobs or is one more favored than others?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.22 09:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Josehpine hey, just something that jumped to my mind lately due to my rev eng successes, but maybe you could have a look at it cause your statistics is much higher. Do you get a pretty even number for all 4 different subsytems per category after alot of successfull rev eng jobs or is one more favored than others?
looks pretty even, but we're talking 500+ jobs here.. until then be prepared for remarkable differences.. especially 50 jobs or less.
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f1a1
Caldari lolutah GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.23 17:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: f1a1 on 23/05/2009 17:37:28 Thanks for the guide, it was really helpful. However, after I follow all the steps and the reactor goes into "Online - starting up" status, nothing happens. I waited over 2 hours the first time and there was nothing in the polymer silo afterwards. Then I offlined everything, re-did all the links, onlined everything from the bottom up, and it was in "starting up" status again. I went to bed and came back this morning and there still hasn't been anything done.
The steps I'm following are: - With all the silos and reactor offline, manage tower and change the type of each silo and reactor to the specific type of item that I'll be putting in it. - Add the reaction (fulleroferrocene), each type of fullerite, and tritanium to their respective silos and reactor. - Drag the fullerite and tritanium links (right side of the screen) to the reactor input link (left side of the screen). - Drag the fulleroferrocene output link to the input link on the hybrid polymer silo. - Click apply - Online everything from the bottom up, ending with the reactor itself
I've tried this in a bunch of different orders. One of the things I've noticed is that when I click apply, it tends to reset all the links and if I mouseover the reactor, it says that the links aren't properly setup. Then if I re-drag all of them, it works and goes into "Online - starting up" status, but never actually outputs anything.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance :)
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Gradinger
Todmacher
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:40:00 -
[36]
thx braage for the great guide
but there's a small but important error concerning Polymer Reactions: you describe as first step anchor and ONLINE all structures - although onlining is the absolute LAST step to do
additionally i had the same problems like the poster above - which in fact was my error - because it's absolutely important to click APPLY - otherwise you will lose all links when onlining...
so the steps are like this: 1 - anchor structures 2 - put BP into reactor 3 - set types 4 - create links and APPLY 5 - fill the silos (you can exchange step 4 and 5, doesnt matter afaik) 6 - online everything (the reactor says "starting up", and after some time "active")
thx again grad
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ElectricDolphin
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Posted - 2009.07.14 03:17:00 -
[37]
Edited by: ElectricDolphin on 14/07/2009 03:18:49
Originally by: Gradinger thx braage for the great guide
but there's a small but important error concerning Polymer Reactions: you describe as first step anchor and ONLINE all structures - although onlining is the absolute LAST step to do
additionally i had the same problems like the poster above - which in fact was my error - because it's absolutely important to click APPLY - otherwise you will lose all links when onlining...
so the steps are like this: 1 - anchor structures 2 - put BP into reactor 3 - set types 4 - create links and APPLY 5 - fill the silos (you can exchange step 4 and 5, doesnt matter afaik) 6 - online everything (the reactor says "starting up", and after some time "active")
thx again grad
Just confirming this post. We had the same problem and doing the operation in this order fixed it.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.07.18 10:54:00 -
[38]
Noted thanks guys, will be editing later tonight. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.07.19 10:53:00 -
[39]
Keep in mind that reactor-chains only tick once per hour, when the tower cycles.. Thing goes like that:
- link everything - put all silos/reactors online - tower cycles (t:0) .. reactor takes the raw material out of the input silos for 1 reaction - tower cycles (t:+1hr) .. reactor puts stuff into output silos
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Lamia Jericho
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Posted - 2009.07.21 08:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Lamia Jericho on 21/07/2009 08:29:33 Please contact me if you would like a secondary mirror for your guide!
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1124212
sorry for alt post
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Dass Gus
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Posted - 2009.07.23 09:07:00 -
[41]
PLEASE, Could someone explain me the probality between intact, malfonctionning and wecked about reverse engineering ?
Is this like a 100%,66.66%,33.33% and a 20,10,3 run ?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.07.23 10:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dass Gus ...Is this like a 100%,66.66%,33.33% and a 20,10,3 run ?
nope.. there is no 100% chance.. if you want numbers, head for Sisi
also its (afaik): intact hulls 10runs malfunc hulls 10runs wrecked hulls 3runs intact subsys 20runs malfunc subsys 10runs wrecked subsys 3 runs
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Fe Dora
Amarr United Galactic Ltd.
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Posted - 2009.09.27 13:48:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Fe Dora on 27/09/2009 13:50:19 According to this guide, the "Subsystem Assembly Array" can be anchored and used in high sec area - so that having all materials and blueprints, I could manufacture T3 components there (and not in low sec). As I read different stuff concerning that statement... can anyone tell me if that is really true or not (before I start skilling)?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.09.30 15:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Fe Dora Edited by: Fe Dora on 27/09/2009 13:50:19 According to this guide, the "Subsystem Assembly Array" can be anchored and used in high sec area - so that having all materials and blueprints, I could manufacture T3 components there (and not in low sec). As I read different stuff concerning that statement... can anyone tell me if that is really true or not (before I start skilling)?
That's correct. Hulls and Subsystems can be built at high sec pos with the Subsys Assembly Array.
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Fe Dora
Amarr United Galactic Ltd.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 16:58:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tres Farmer That's correct. Hulls and Subsystems can be built at high sec pos with the Subsys Assembly Array.
Thanks a lot. :)
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Gravehart
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.31 10:41:00 -
[46]
Just tried intact hulls and got 10 run bpc.
Think I will stick to malfunction hulls instead as they give 10 run as well.
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Riame
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Posted - 2009.11.02 22:28:00 -
[47]
I can't find anything on this: Which parts of the T3 construction process requires POS facilities? Can Reverse Engineering, Component Construction, and T3 subsystem construction occur in empire? Obviously hybrid polymer reactions must occur at a POS, but what of the others?
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.15 16:31:00 -
[48]
Unstickied and added to the resource thread. If you haven't added this to the EVElopedia I highly suggest it.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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