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Ira Infernus
Praetorium Illegitimus The.Alliance
18
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Posted - 2012.05.02 22:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
I dont understand why people are whining about this change, its damn near necissary for game balancement, and its not that much of an issue anyway; you fit a t3 to be super fast and boost on grid..
People seem to forget that "the grid" is 250km... |
Diesel47
Warlord General
13
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Posted - 2012.05.02 23:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ira Infernus wrote:I dont understand why people are whining about this change, its damn near necissary for game balancement, and its not that much of an issue anyway; you fit a t3 to be super fast and boost on grid..
People seem to forget that "the grid" is 250km...
You are right. You don't understand.
You've got no idea. |
Alain Kinsella
105
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Posted - 2012.05.03 00:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:not sure why it's so important to them to want the command booster on grid.. when the command ships cannot be cloaked and as is they are rather easy to scan down. Nerfing boosters is going to make Rorq fleet boosting a thing of the past.. no one is going to take a rorq into a belt for the boost.
I think they should rethink this idea on the whole. For that, well I agree. The belts make it too lol to kill a rorq or an orca for their value. But hopefully if the scanning style industry comes into play, then it will be alot less of an issue since it would take some time to actually find and scan down the ship. Any attentive fleet could easily get away. Drawback of course is that dang industrial core. I know enemy is coming, but I already paid the fuel, damn well am going to use it! Edit, and make it capable of boosting, even a reduced boosting not deployed maybe.
You will get 'base skills' boosting from the pilot. And it *can* fit three normal gang links, same as a command ship or Orca.
Perhaps make a 'hybrid' Indy Core that has slower compression time, smaller batches, no boosting effect etc, but gives you some of the benefits of a Siege Module.
Otherwise, you'll want capital reps on it and have it chain-rep with a cap ship or two for it to survive on-grid. It can then also re-fit itself as needed to help get out (per some of the Rooks and Kings videos). I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Wedge Reskanor
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
1
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Posted - 2012.05.03 01:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
What if off-grid boosters only worked at 50% effectiveness? |
Adria Origin
Yar Har Fiddle Di Dee
0
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Posted - 2012.05.03 02:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
I only support this change if it comes with a rebalance of command ships as a whole. As others have said the damnation is the only useful one of the 4 on grid and even that is debatable. T3s should not be better than command ships as they require less skills to train for, especially if this change goes through. (Technically the skills required for a T3 and a command ship put them about the same since the bulk of training time is in the Leadership skills and Cruiser skill, but on grid would need all the pre-rq of a T3 anyway making the T3 significantly faster to train for and completely obsoleting the command ships).
I have: Command Ships V, Amarr Cruiser V, Caldari Cruiser V, Gallente Cruiser V, Minmatar Cruiser V, Battlecruisers V, all Leadership skills at V, Industrial Command V and currently working on getting all Subsystems/Strat Cruiser to V.
Needless to say I find this topic quite important. I am not against making boosting on grid per-say but it better be done right or that's $15 a month I won't have to spend.
P.S. This nerf will likely not make Rorquals go on the field but will instead just make them be used for nothing but ore compression. Orca's may go on the field but I doubt that, most likely will be a solely highsec ship. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
629
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Posted - 2012.05.03 03:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Aqriue wrote:I laugh everytime whiney players can't cope with someone meta-gaming better then them, as to deal with an offgrid booster you either catch it before hand or GTFO of the system the boster ship is in; or just bring your own command booster and now its like either side didn't have one (both get buffed up, both are practicly equal!). Really, its that simple as those idiots that say a hullk pilot needs to put a tank on the ship...deal with it yourself and get out of the problem you are facing. Game breaking unfairness...remember nothing is unfair in EVE until you whine about it . Hello faceless one, your words do not exist because you have no face! If you did however, I would say it needs to go because anything being done without user imput, risk or challenge is lame. It isn't anything at all to do with the "boster" itself. Plain and simple, sitting in/at a pos boosting is pathetic. U-mad because your dumb freebits afk boosting alt going to become useless and you spent so much into a triple co-pro loki with no offgrid? This is eve, show up or GTFO. Not in combat is not doing anything therefore should not apply anything. I never said it was unfair. I can easily sit offgrid, in safespots you name it in my command ship, but I am not a ****ing ***** and lay down my ship. Anything that lets people do stuff in high risk space with no/low risk shouldn't exist. Maybe we should just go whatever and have the ability to use ganglinks while cloaked. So hath Butthurt spoken, so hath it been heard. For only the Butthurt declare they risk something when they hath lost to some guy meta-gaming better then him and declare the other guy a coward...but this is a video game with consequences not fair rules.
Cause in Soviet EVE, loser is you...anything done to win equates to a win and the loser whines the hardest or loudest. There is no rule to risk or fair combat...its just the loser feeling like he got chumped and whining its not fair. Whiners moan the loudest, but try...it still means nothing except to the losers feeling like they got crushed. Next thing you know, when a miner whines his Hulk can't hold out you will tell him to fit tank mods...that is when you relize you can do better yourself when it comes to command links without CCP intervening everytime some player beats your ass in a game with no rules of combat. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
158
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Posted - 2012.05.03 04:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:So hath Butthurt spoken, so hath it been heard. For only the Butthurt declare they risk something when they hath lost to some guy meta-gaming better then him and declare the other guy a coward...but this is a video game with consequences not fair rules. Cause in Soviet EVE, loser is you...anything done to win equates to a win and the loser whines the hardest or loudest. There is no rule to risk or fair combat...its just the loser feeling like he got chumped and whining its not fair. Whiners moan the loudest, but try...it still means nothing except to the losers feeling like they got crushed. Next thing you know, when a miner whines his Hulk can't hold out you will tell him to fit tank mods...that is when you relize you can do better yourself when it comes to command links without CCP intervening everytime some player beats your ass in a game with no rules of combat.
Faceless one, get eyes so can read! I state it works, but is L A M E! As in a mechanic that takes away challenge and enjoyment. The metagame really is nothing to me because when needed to, I can play it too. However is more fun to do it in combat. Cry that your otherwize useless alt won't be functional because T3 with only leadership training couldn pew if it passed gas. I fly my ships into combats, larger fleet combats. And I only lossed one due to a session change error locking me mid gatejump for a minute. I haven't been beaten, and I do the beating.
Same reason I was so outspoken against the incursions. Easy win, therefore I found them lame and spoke out against them and stopped doing them. Was E A S Y...
Mission running, same thing. I am not against pve, but it is E A S Y....
Mining... guess what? E A S Y... I ran mining ops successfully during the earlier hulkageddons because hanging with corpies chatting was more fun.
guess what I think about the commship metagame.... thats right.... E A S Y...
If you like things easy, I hear there is a game called World of Warcraft that has easy pve servers... |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
35
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Posted - 2012.05.03 07:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
After reading these a bit more and talking with some folks about the off grid boosting. The big problem did not come about until the Strat Cruisers arrived. a Ship that is able to give a slightly better bonus to boosting while off grid and easier to get into then a command ship. Making boosting where it is on grid the 0.0 carebears will just leave the Rorqual docked up or stored somewhere only to bring it out to crush ore and then move it while the orca pilots will only show up on grid to collect jet cans of ore to be taken back tot he Rorqual sitting the pos crushing ore or drop it off at a station. you get the idea. This here will just only drive up the prices of ore in general all around increasing the cost of ships. Does CCP want to give the new players the idea how the hell can I get a Battle cruiser i will be able to fly a battle ship T2 fitted by the time i buy that battle cruiser. This will only drive away new players. I have to say keep the indy boosting to off grid this will benefit everyone.
Now the Off grid combat boosters. These command ship guys i feel have a right to say to keep it off grid they spent the time training these toons which we all know takes months to just get the pilot into a command ship let alone be able to boost a wing.Wing Commanders and fleet commanders are kinda like them guys who sit in the back directing the flow of battle where they are no where near the front lines. Look at WW I or WW II.
Now these new ships the Strategic Cruisers. yeah look at the name and think about it some. These bad boys should be on the front lines shooting up folks. yeah there is the command module thingy for A link. command processors to boost it to 4 additional links they should be on grid with everyone else shooting it up and getting their hands dirty with the risk of getting popped. Welcome to the famous Star Trek character Captin James T. Kirk syndrome.
and we all know the GOONS are pushing this so they can win a large fleet engagement. |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
14
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Posted - 2012.05.03 08:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
this will nerf Null/low sec mining. no more deployed rorqual in pos this further nerfs titans since they have insane bonuses, but are seldom on gates.
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Devil tiger
1
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Posted - 2012.05.03 08:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
At first I thought the biggest problem with this would be "grid-Fu" users but then it occurred to me that if you're sitting in a grid of 600-800km and boosting your cap fleet... Well It's not that hard to bring one or two smaller ships just for the purpose of obliterating the enemy boosters at Grid-fu enlarged grids.
The biggest nerf bat would definitely hit the industrialists. A Rorqual can fend of a few BS if fitted with that in mind but an Orca is dead if even a single cruiser gets it.
I'd really like to see the Rorqual get enough drone bay to fit the minimal 5 fighters making it pretty much an industrial mother ship, it already has a clone vat bay and costs more than "normal" carrier but less than super cap so why the hell not? |
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Aesheera
Malum Crusis
23
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Posted - 2012.05.03 09:54:00 -
[71] - Quote
Varesk wrote: They have these things in the game called Combat Scanner Probes. They can scan out ships that are sitting in safe spots giving links. I know its hard to believe and totally not real, but they are there. You will need to train some skills and buy a probe launcher. I suggest you go with the Sisters Expanded Launcher with Sister Combat Probes and a Covert Ops Frigate. The ship will give you a bonus to scanning. Also look in to some rigs. They will also help.
There are some great videos on YouTube that will show you how to scan.
Hope this helps.
The person you quoted is actually right. Forcing gangboosters on grid is the way it should have always worked imo. And as far as those probes are concerned, are you gonna probe for the booster when the fight's already in full effect?
Gangboosters on grid is good, very good.
You want that papertank T3 booster? That's fine, keep it close to your combat pilot or keep it docked.
As far as the other boosting ship is concerned with the exception of Titans, yes. On grid. Risky? Yep. As it should be. Protect it, or dont and lose it. Malum Crusis is recruiting!
FREE Merc work offered*
Details available via EVEmail or ingame convo. |
Renturu
Tribal Spirit The Nest Alliance
184
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Posted - 2012.05.03 10:48:00 -
[72] - Quote
I agree with nerfing off grid boosting... Just not total castration of them.. Perhaps a halving the bonuses given if off grid. You want the greater bonus, then your Cmd Ship needs to be in the heat with the fleet.
I fly all races of Cmd Ships (trophies and bragging rights) and can see that the skills would be wasted if completely nerf'd, toned down when off grid, sure, I'll bite. If EvE WiS is Space Barbie, then I'm built like a Ken Doll:
Nothin' but 14 inches of T'aint; Smooth, from front to butt!!! |
Nirnias Stirrum
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2012.05.03 15:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
Will this gang bonus nerf effect Orca's also? cause if so there goes the use or Rorquals and Orca's to provide boosts to miners. thought they were trying to refocus stuff on mining, not nerf it. WH miners will loose 20% per hour income now also.
As well as small gang war fare gangs. Im more annoyed by the hit at small gang war fare and pushing people to be a part of blob fleets... no thanks. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
641
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Posted - 2012.05.03 15:31:00 -
[74] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Will this gang bonus nerf effect Orca's also? cause if so there goes the use or Rorquals and Orca's to provide boosts to miners. thought they were trying to refocus stuff on mining, not nerf it. WH miners will loose 20% per hour income now also.
As well as small gang war fare gangs. Im more annoyed by the hit at small gang war fare and pushing people to be a part of blob fleets... no thanks.
There is no nerf inbound.
Otherwise a solid post.
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Nirnias Stirrum
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2012.05.03 15:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
Roime wrote:Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Will this gang bonus nerf effect Orca's also? cause if so there goes the use or Rorquals and Orca's to provide boosts to miners. thought they were trying to refocus stuff on mining, not nerf it. WH miners will loose 20% per hour income now also.
As well as small gang war fare gangs. Im more annoyed by the hit at small gang war fare and pushing people to be a part of blob fleets... no thanks. There is no nerf inbound. Otherwise a solid post.
Good. that will teach me to briefly read OP days ago, then in my mind think it is incoming, then post days later asking questions on what will be effected! Good Job! |
Din Tempre
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
6
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:48:00 -
[76] - Quote
I think it would be better to balance with an increase in the grid size and min warp range. 400km grids, 200km warps, and 100km micro-jumps would open up the ability to keep your command ship on grid while staying at range. |
Zverofaust
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
98
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Posted - 2012.05.03 19:06:00 -
[77] - Quote
People whining about not being able to receive massive fleet bonuses for no risk ITT |
saucy jackass
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.05.03 20:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
Off grid boosters make it easier for a smaller gang to successfully engage a large blob of idiots. Nerfing off grid boosters nerfs small gangs and buffs blobs that can protect their booster while camping a gate. Its like the nano nerf all over again. |
Din Tempre
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
6
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Posted - 2012.05.04 02:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
saucy jackass wrote:Off grid boosters make it easier for a smaller gang to successfully engage a large blob of idiots. Nerfing off grid boosters nerfs small gangs and buffs blobs that can protect their booster while camping a gate. Its like the nano nerf all over again.
Honestly, who is more likely to have the resources of a booster? The larger gang. This argument is moot. |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
35
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Posted - 2012.06.12 03:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
The reality is that off-grid boosters are balanced. CCP made sure of that with their most recent change to probing which has made it so that previously unprobable ships are now probable. The other reality is that unlike before where Titans were used to doomsday command ships off the field, a new investment has to be made for people who are wanting to disable enemy gang links. It is completely possible to do, both in large scale fleet battles and small scale gang pvp.
I have personally probed down enemy t3 links and killed them. I have done so both in large scale fleet battles, most recently against Nulli Secunda in Delve, and in small gang pvp across EVE. I have witnessed Pandemic Legion t3's being probed down and killed, and on multiple occasions. The most recent memory I have of this happening was in Geminate during our drone region campaign where a single person in a fed navy comet killed 3 of our boosting t3s. So you can counter boosting t3s with a prober, and it is completely viable to do so, for someone who knows what they are doing. That a certain amount of skill and isk is required to find and kill boosting t3s can only be a good thing. I suspect most of the drivel of this thread comes from the fact that the people whining here simply do not want to make the investment, or do not know how. The only thing that makes t3 boosting so good right now is the metagame and a POS. When people make the same investments that they used to, in order to kill enemy command ships, then off-grid t3 boosters will not have anywhere near the same level of effectiveness they currently enjoy. I will admit that boosting from a POS is unfair, because there is absolutely nothing that can be done to counter it, but boosting from safespots is not something that needs to be changed in any way, shape of form.
tl;dr: CCP, on the unlikely chance that you read this, let the metagame sort out off-grid boosters. Boosting from a POS in pvp is completely risk-free, but boosting from a safespot is no longer safe. People just need time to figure out how to counter it, and you need to let the players sort this out for themselvs, because you have given them just that ability already. |
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
229
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Posted - 2012.06.12 04:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
This will be the rorq killer. Why bother with it... other than compression... which really isn't that important. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
64
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Posted - 2012.06.12 04:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
Caps should be only one that can offgid the whole system anything else on grid or gtfo. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
78
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Posted - 2012.06.12 05:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
Notta Monsta wrote:If that happens I will have an off grid booster account that will never be used again.. But on the bright side I will save 500 mill ISK per month since I will no longer need to PLEX it.
I have to agree with you. All i know is that some 0.0 alliance got fed up with the off grib boosting cause the command ship would be hiding somewhere in system and the GOONs/Pets would get smacked around like some red headed step child and sent back upstairs to their rooms and the lucky ones got to run away in their pods..
Nerfing the Off grid boosting from the fleet warfare PVP, to PVE. since Faction Wars came out and the off grid booster hiding agitated one side and then the other side got something better and it slowly became a he said she said to mommy an daddy drama scene.
The Off grid booster should remain i spent real money on my accounts. why should anyone suffer cause someone got their panties in a wad.
oh well there is Diablo III |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
346
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Posted - 2012.06.12 05:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
EVE Stig wrote:Anyone have a link to where CCP announced that the of grid bonuses will no longer work? Got a friend skilling into command ships that wants to know about it
http://talocanunited.com/documents/gridfumanual2.pdf
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1021
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Posted - 2012.06.12 06:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ongrid booster alts that are 10,000km away? Cool.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
35
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Posted - 2012.06.12 07:13:00 -
[86] - Quote
Only an idiot would try to grid-fu a command t3. It would be dead in under a minute. |
saltrock0000
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
62
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Posted - 2012.06.12 08:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
Trolololololololololol CCP fixing things that arn't broken and yet ignoring the broken things screaming out to be fixed |
Judas II
Dark-Rising
6
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Posted - 2012.06.12 10:19:00 -
[88] - Quote
I think boosters are fine as they are - off grid. If people spend a lot of time, effort and isk into it, and beat you with the meta gaming, that's fine. That's the game. Otherwise we might as well remove all ships and just keep the Rookie ones and fight it out with civilian railguns. If you don't want any advantages or disadvantages, I reckon rookie ships would be the fairest and most equal in their kind. (oh no nerf the velator it has a dronebay!)
No. Someone just beat you doing their homework on meta-gaming. Just deal with it - or start doing your own work. |
Hurtado Soneka
Vindicare Temple
10
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Posted - 2012.06.12 11:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
good change, all boosting should be done on the grid, ideally within targeting range of the ship doing the boosting!
Hopefully fleet command ships will get another look at when this is implemented, at the very least so we all dont keep laughin at the vulture whatever the **** that thing is meant to be |
Emination of Haxti
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.06.12 11:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
Judas II wrote:I think boosters are fine as they are - off grid. If people spend a lot of time, effort and isk into it, and beat you with the meta gaming, that's fine. That's the game. Otherwise we might as well remove all ships and just keep the Rookie ones and fight it out with civilian railguns. If you don't want any advantages or disadvantages, I reckon rookie ships would be the fairest and most equal in their kind. (oh no nerf the velator it has a dronebay!)
No. Someone just beat you doing their homework on meta-gaming. Just deal with it - or start doing your own work.
Meta-gaming? I think you are confused.
Also, don't fool yourself with lots of time, effort and isk. Training and equipping a booster alt is trivial, that is the reason they are so common to the point that everybody has to have one in order to be competitive.
I think you are just trying to stroke your epeen and miss the fact that also those people with booster alts are for this off-grid nerf- because it's lame and gay.
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