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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 08:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option.
My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. |
Shian Yang
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 08:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Greetings capsuleer,
I wish to applaud you for raising an issue of privacy by pointing a group of people directly at said breach of privacy. Not once, but twice.
Regards,
Shian Yang |
Benny Ohu
The Lazy Dragoons True Apathy
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aren't alliance mails those things sent to dozens of anonymous strangers at the same time?
"You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Looks like you agreed already |
Nirnias Stirrum
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture:
............................................________ ....................................,.-'"...................``~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_..........._,-%.......` ..................................., |
Spymaster Bates
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
Hi,
I'd like to address something important here. The API's here aren't farmed or stolen, they are from active agents or API's given consentually. If you are mad about your alliance being infiltrated then have better recruitment standards.
Inb4 alt of Skeleton Crew. |
malaire
381
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spymaster Bates wrote:I'd like to address something important here. The API's here aren't farmed or stolen, they are from active agents or API's given consentually. If you are mad about your alliance being infiltrated then have better recruitment standards. Exactly. Why would any law prohibit publishing a message which was specifically sent to you? New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
The source of the API's could also be from players who left corp x to join corp y where corp x uses the API.. but thats for the player to fix.. delete the old API and make a new one.
But this case mails send by others are made public. Also the EULA is intended for use inside EvE and CCP, not a third party website. But it aint the mails through an API that is a problem, but the sending party is no option at all.. they have no option to exclude the sended mail from the API. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Persona Non Gratis
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Aren't alliance mails those things sent to dozens of anonymous strangers at the same time?
"You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Looks like you agreed already
Agreeing to a contract doesn't automatically make the terms contained therein legal.
As for Evemails, who cares? If you don't want them read, don't give out an API key that provides access to them. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
335
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
As soon as I saw your name I already decided to discard any comments from you as being totally irrelevant.
|
Rajan Marelona
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:The source of the API's could also be from players who left corp x to join corp y where corp x uses the API. Are you complete moron ? No it can not. API is for character not for corp.
Quote:But this case mails send by others are made public. Mail is from character who is still inside the corp by infiltrate and who willingly give API. He receive the mail, he can do whatever he want with mail.
Quote:it aint the mails through an API that is a problem, but the sending party is no option at all.. they have no option to exclude the sended mail from the API. Yes you have option - find the spy and kick him out. If not using API, he can copypaste manually still. So who cares. |
|
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
435
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture: ............................................________ ....................................,.-'"...................``~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_..........._,-%.......` ...................................,
She's got the hair cut for it.
WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
LOL tard, everything in Eve is CCPs property, every mail sent is CCP property, no laws broken, don't like it, contract me your stuffs before you go |
Luis Graca
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
btw you do now that this site wasn't made by CCP? |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:btw you do now that this site wasn't made by CCP?
But is copyrighted towards them even if it wasn't and they have the rights to use of it and anything that goes on within it |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
153
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
I would be interested to hear which laws you are blathering about.
Seeing as an in game email does not show any personal information that can identify a RL person.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
391
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Internet lawyers... Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Luis Graca
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:Luis Graca wrote:btw you do now that this site wasn't made by CCP? But is copyrighted towards them even if it wasn't and they have the rights to use of it and anything that goes on within it
If you think thats the case CCP doesn't have anything to do either is the player that actually is giving the information cause de API is given to him and to him alone, if he share it's is fault
It's like if you give is E-mail (out of the game) password is your fault something happens not the server were it's hosted |
Spymaster Bates
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
10 billion isk. I will stop publishing your alliance mails.
Otherwise understand that regardless if mails are posted on eveskunk or manually posted to my intel mailbox I still have access to all the information.
So, to repeat my point and end this discussion.
Your mails are public information, free to share and to use by those they are sent to. If you don't like what my spies are sharing, find him and burn him. Then, before you recruit anyone new, do a proper background check on people you accept into corp. Twitter - @eveskunk |
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Internet lawyers...
|
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
150
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:seany1212 wrote:Luis Graca wrote:btw you do now that this site wasn't made by CCP? But is copyrighted towards them even if it wasn't and they have the rights to use of it and anything that goes on within it If you think thats the case CCP doesn't have anything to do either is the player that actually is giving the information cause de API is given to him and to him alone, if he share it's is fault It's like if you give is E-mail (out of the game) password is your fault something happens not the server were it's hosted
When will you understand whenever someone sends an Eve mail that its CCP property... You choose to use CCPs services (Eve, Eve mail, etc.) and you signed an EULA to say that everything used within the Eve mail system becomes CCP property, if you feel personal information has been breached send a petition until then, you better start using that Hotmail/yahoo/googlemail/AOL/etc. account of yours |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yeaaaaaaa cause spying in internet spaceships... Same thing as espionage IRL
I can imagine the lawyer: "But your honor, EVE IS REAL It said so on the web page for the service some months back."
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture: ............................................________ ....................................,.-'"...................``~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_..........._,-%.......` ...................................,
Ill help YOU tho...
Read this yesterday when it was mailed to me:
Quote:Posting images and ASCII art on the forums is prohibited with the following exceptions:
Signature graphics are permitted, but must follow these guidelines: signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.
Additional restrictions are as follows:
No more than one signature image may be used Maximum height: 120 pixels Maximum width: 400 pixels Maximum file size: 24,000 bytes (not Kbytes)
|
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
337
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Likes received: 0
Says it all, really. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 10:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gorki Andropov wrote:Likes received: 0
Says it all, really.
Oh hell when did Likes start mattering? Or is it just to you? |
Nirnias Stirrum
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture: ............................................________ ....................................,.-'"...................``~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_..........._,-%.......` ..................................., Ill help YOU tho... Read this yesterday when it was mailed to me: Quote:Posting images and ASCII art on the forums is prohibited with the following exceptions:
Signature graphics are permitted, but must follow these guidelines: signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.
Additional restrictions are as follows:
No more than one signature image may be used Maximum height: 120 pixels Maximum width: 400 pixels Maximum file size: 24,000 bytes (not Kbytes)
Didnt see this in any terms and conditions. Iv used that ASCII hundreds of times on the forum. Nothing has ever come of it! I can understand why they would'nt be allowed but meh, hardly care. It was appropriate and it was in good taste! |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Funny how dumb people can really be, or try to undermine the words being said by attacking the person and not the arguments. I am pretty sure everybody would burn CCP if they would make every mail public send ingame.
Quote:Are you complete moron ? No it can not. API is for character not for corp. If player left, API useless for spying.
I think u misread whay I said.. most corp and/or alliance require the player to send their API before they can join. If a player forgets to delete the key after he left the corp/alliance it can still be used by the former corp/alliance. Often people are not aware of this and even reuse the same key for the next corp/alliance they join.
Again, I do not mind that the mails can be accessed through the API but what I do mind that the sender has no control over his mail. There should be an option if the sended mail is available through the API. |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
150
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote: There should be an option if the sended mail is available through the API.
There is, you don't send one...
CCP could publicly release every mail in-game if they wanted to, but it would make absolutely no sense to, they would face public backlash, but it's still their property and they could do what they liked with it. |
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Funny how dumb people can really be, or try to undermine the words being said by attacking the person and not the arguments. I am pretty sure everybody would burn CCP if they would make every mail public send ingame. Quote:Are you complete moron ? No it can not. API is for character not for corp. If player left, API useless for spying. I think u misread whay I said.. most corp and/or alliance require the player to send their API before they can join. If a player forgets to delete the key after he left the corp/alliance it can still be used by the former corp/alliance. Often people are not aware of this and even reuse the same key for the next corp/alliance they join. Again, I do not mind that the mails can be accessed through the API but what I do mind that the sender has no control over his mail. There should be an option if the sended mail is available through the API.
It is called setting up a proper API. Try it sometime. |
malaire
382
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:There should be an option if the sended mail is available through the API. That would make mail-API useless. Main thing about that API is to know if you have mail or not, and be able to read it out of game.
Also spy could just use script which gets mails from evegate instead. Unless you want other checkbox which controls whether your mail is also available in evegate?
So do you want something like this:
(Compose EveMail Form) To: _____ Subject: _____ Message: _____ [ ] Show in game [ ] Show via API [ ] Show via evegate
Yeah, really usefull...
New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
malaire
382
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Didnt see this in any terms and conditions. Iv used that ASCII hundreds of times on the forum. Nothing has ever come of it! I can understand why they would'nt be allowed but meh, hardly care. It was appropriate and it was in good taste! "Forum Rules" link at top right portion of this page, below search-box.
However that is from 2009 and quite outdated since it talks about image restrictions while these new forums don't allow posting of images. New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
|
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
327
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
You can exclude EVE mails from your API key.
Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
Degren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
192
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
So many clueless "breaching x law" posts lately.
Unless you're pretty clear on Icelandic law, shut the **** up.
No, really.
Shut. The. ****. Up.
When you don't know what you're talking about and you let it hang out for everyone to see, you look like an idiot.
Signed
Abraham Lincoln, First President of the United States. . |
malaire
382
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:You can exclude EVE mails from your API key.
He wants to control what other players can use their personal API keys for. New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Jandice Ymladris
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction -affliction-
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Serious, this is all part of the game. Don't like it? deal with it! You can't expect CCP to hold your hand and help you to weed out spies. It's up to you how to do that, that's what makes EvE great, you choose how to play, and if there's an obstacle, you find ways around it, or how to remove it. Not cry to CCP that it's unfair. |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Dragoons.
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
how about not using your evemail as a way of sending sensetive information to people?
If only there were other systems that were more secure and actually had to acknowledge such laws rather than in game coms. |
Spymaster Bates
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 12:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:If only there were other systems that were more secure and actually had to acknowledge such laws rather than in game coms.
I know!
I just cannot think of a single one! Twitter - @eveskunk |
Corbin Blair
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
96
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 13:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. Accusing CCP of facilitating in this case is a bit like accusing Hollywood of facilitating movie torrents. If anything, eveskunk is equivalent to the torrent site. |
cpu939
Eternal Darkness. G00DFELLAS
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 13:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
i might be wrong but do not all in game items belong to ccp. |
Corbin Blair
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
96
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 13:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
cpu939 wrote:i might be wrong but do not all in game items belong to ccp. Communications aren't an item. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 13:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game (you know its just a game right?...right?) and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture: ............................................________ ....................................,.-'"...................``~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_..........._,-%.......` ...................................,
CCP and games are bound by international laws as well as National laws. I doubt they are in this instance but when it comes to things like billing, publishing, consumer laws and even laws against terrorism and company laws, tax laws and many more they are all bound by them....
Try avoid making general sweeping statements.
In regards to the OP, manage your API better, never check everything and hand it out, only what you are willing to give. |
|
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
97
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 13:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Not much you can do about stupid. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 14:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Internet lawyers... ...Will be the first ones up against the wall, come the Revolution! Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
727
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 14:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Armchair lawyers are SO very amusing. All the "whatabouts?" are covered in the statutes involved. There is no opinion other than a judge's.
Try tossing around "expectation of privacy" for a few megabytes. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 14:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
free intel with no work involved nice. Wish local could work as good.
This is so bullshit its broken IMO. Alliance leaders should be the only ones able to post alliance mails in their API's.
INB4 alliances creating encrypted mails and CODE-BREAKING ACTUALLY BECOMES A SKILL |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
328
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
malaire wrote:Aiwha wrote:You can exclude EVE mails from your API key.
He wants to control what other players can use their personal API keys for.
Ah, so he doesn't want people to reveal mails that he sent to them?
I see.
Well since the OP is hopless I'm going to pack it in and declare this a Zamboni thread. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
150
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:free intel with no work involved nice. Wish local could work as good.
This is so bullshit its broken IMO. Alliance leaders should be the only ones able to post alliance mails in their API's.
INB4 alliances creating encrypted mails and CODE-BREAKING ACTUALLY BECOMES A SKILL
They can be, it generally requires the communication officer role in order to post alliance mails, what the OP wants is to basically select what mails certain people receive (spais) but theirs nothing stopping spais copy/pastea into internet webpages and it doesn't breach international laws, you press send, the mail becomes CCP property. |
Amsterdam Conversations
Cheesecake Starshine
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thanks to you, me and my 250 alliance mates now have access to mails of different alliances (we don't really care about anyway). |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
347
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Someone annoyed at leaked Alliance Mails?
Also this is not new, EVE has been decompiled and recompiled over and over again client side since the days of BACON, so figure out by yourself with this in mind, that even something like the API which is external to the client is bound to be manipulated by imaginative people willing to gain an edge by metagaming too.
Really, if you this worried about your privacy on eve, you need better recruitment policies and background checking. Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Snooood
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Internet lawyers...
shut up nerd |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing. |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
925
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
Aiwha wrote: Well since the OP is hopless I'm going to pack it in and declare this a Zamboni thread.
"Who's that at the door!!?"
http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/uploaded/WNewquay/20044227751_zamboni1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Zamboni.jpg
http://www.njmonthly.com/downloads/2420/download/zamboni.jpg The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing.
You sent those mails to members of your alliance. Those members are free to do what they want with those mails.
|
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 15:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
I'd say it would be a more slippery slope if EVE as a game encouraged the use of their tools for RL , non game related communication.
If the api is less secure than free email servers maybe an additional caution to that effect and recomendation that personal conversations be taken out of game might be a nice idea ethically. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
263
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:You sent those mails to members of your alliance. Those members are free to do what they want with those mails.
End thread.
Rofl internet spaceships lawyer jagoffs. So ******* dumb.
|
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
Diomedes Calypso wrote:I'd say it would be a more slippery slope if EVE as a game encouraged the use of their tools for RL , non game related communication.
If the api is less secure than free email servers maybe an additional caution to that effect and recomendation that personal conversations be taken out of game might be a nice idea ethically.
It's not less secure though. People can only access mails that they are entitled to access, there is no breach of privacy here at all. Even if you moved all of your alliance mail to a third party mail server, the people in the alliance are still able to copy and paste that onto this website.
I'd say that the eve mail system is more secure than most mail systems because you can create 'one time (or rather one day) use' keys to access without using your username and password. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
337
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Gorki Andropov wrote:Likes received: 0
Says it all, really. Oh hell when did Likes start mattering? Or is it just to you?
Well, they started mattering the minute you found fault to pick with what I said ^^ |
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing.
Better call Saul! |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
If a player would copy/paste the mail themselves then it their problem, CCP did not help them doing so.
Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Imagine the government to make everything public what was send to them, like letters, tax submissions, etc. Or a doctor who would make everything public about his patients, I mean.. he is free to share everything was is being shared with him, right? Wrong, it is all against the law.
feel free to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_privacy |
SpaceSquirrels
278
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
1. It's an in game mail system 2. Spam mail sent to lots of members 3. It's not stealing if they send it to you.
4. Go sue them or nothing will change. |
Internet Lawyer Steve
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
Internet Lawyer Steve on the scene....
No internet laws have been broken. The Law Offices of Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates have looked in to this and no wrong doing is involved.
A bill from the Law Offices of Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates will be sent to the OP. We will expect full payment in 30 days.
|
|
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
363
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
Oh snap, the wiki links are being brought out now. |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:24:00 -
[62] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender.
Ahahaha. Haha. Ha.
Right.
I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed.
Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender. |
Destru Kaneda
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
Surely people have been sharing Evemail-based intel since day one? So just because an API makes it easier we need to remove the feature? Look, any rational person would understand that the problem is not with the API, but people using it to leak mails. After all they could still just copy and paste. For someone with a software engineering degree you are being willfully ignorant. You're supposed to be a proponent of innovation, not a technophobic blowhard. http://minmatar.eve-kill.net/ http://binaerpilot.no/ GMU d-(---)pu s+++:-- a-- C++++$ U>+++ P+ L+ E---- W+++$ w PS+++ PE-- Y++ PGP-- t+ tv-- b+ D++ G e- h r++ y+* |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. |
Varesk
Mafia Redux Black Legion.
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
I am wondering what alliance the OP is in to cause the post. I am sure its on the list. |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.
You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.) |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game (you know its just a game right?...right?) and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture: *snip* - ASCII art - ISD LoneLynx
The game company behind the game is bound by international law you idiot. |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:45:00 -
[68] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.
Sowhen someone gives their email login to someone else the mail provider is breaking the law? |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.)
It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
831
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.) It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.
But the API and your EVEMails are not your property. The EULA says they are CCP's property.
Ergo, this isn't "your email" being exposed. It's CCP's email being exposed. And CCP has no problems letting you fall victim to your own stupidity. |
|
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
309
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
A. Communications
Except for certain information in your Account (discussed below), all transmissions by you to the System are not private. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms. CCP and/or its designated affiliates and representatives may monitor communications made by or received from you. You should not provide private information to any other player in the Game. CCP shall not be responsible for the consequences of any such disclosure by you.
Also, slap your college teacher for not teaching you to look up accredited services rather than Wiki. The next time you post a wiki article, I'm changing the article to say you suck at research and you smell too. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:49:00 -
[72] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.) It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.
If you say it's a law, then you should be able to provide us a link to a government website showing us information about this law. And I mean specifically a law that says mail can not be published without the consent of the sender. I stand by my claim that it is not illegal for a person to publish REGULAR COMMUNICATION (not medical, legal or government files) without the consent of the author in any country on the planet.
Also, it's not illegal to read mail which was sent to an employee IF THEY CONSENT (which is what has been done here). By submitting an API key to the website, the player has consented to all of the emails in their mailbox being published. |
Jandice Ymladris
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction -affliction-
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.) It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.
Still leaves CCP out the loophole, as it is a player who decides to bring it public, hence the player is to blame if at all! The mails are part of the game, don't cry foul now when a gamemechanic doesn't work like you wanted it to.
Eve is a sandbox where you're given options on how to deal with it. If you can't deal with a certain gamemechanic, don't cry and run to CCP to fix it. |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 16:50:00 -
[74] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.) It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.
What does that have top do with anything? Evenif the in-game mails we're your property, this isn't the same thing whatsoever. This would be you publishing a mail a friend sent you. |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
64
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. You may, but you're full of ****. CCP didn't hand over the API keys to the website, a player did. It's no different to handing over the username and password to the website so they can log on and copy the emails themselves. (Which of course is a breach of the EULA but does not break any laws in any country on the planet.) It is, if the information is made public without the concent of the sender. Mind you that in my country it is against the law to open any mail or document (in a private section) which belongs to an employee, even if he is fired.
A corp or alliance takes 100% responsibility for any/all members it invites. If a corp/alliance does not want a player to have access to alliance/corp mail, then said alliance/corp should not invite said player.
If a player gives out an API, said player is 100% responsible for whatever happens with that data.
CCP is just a communications medium. They offer the service, but the users must manage it.
If a player gives out an API to someone and that someone miss-uses the API, then the player takes responsibility for it.
If the alliance does not like that the member gave out the API, it is the alliance's fault for inviting that member.
The alliance/corp, member, and other player are all equally at fault. CCP has nothing to do with this.
If I willingly hand my car keys to someone and they run a red light, I am responsible for that ticket, it would be different if they sole my car. I could take that person to court to force them to reimburse me for the ticket.
Just be aware, anything that exists inside of Eve, CCP owns all rights, including mail. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
434
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote:Jowen Datloran wrote:Internet lawyers...
|
Aglea Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:22:00 -
[77] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1225263
OP... go stick it where the sun don't shine.... Anyone else crying.... LOL |
okst666
Not Solitude Again Solitude Empire
161
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Ahahaha. Haha. Ha. Right. I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed. Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender.
Not a law but I have found a court decision.
http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.html
In Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails)
Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk. [X] < Nail here for new monitor |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
To the op. You do understand that espionage, theft and sabotage are allowable actions in game. Acceptance of the eula says you understand that. All the web page does is publicly publish the results of an act of espionage in game with in the bounds of the game. The mechanic happens to be the Ali key useing the show mail option. By your definition any one who ever organized the killing of another team in a fps should be charged with conspiracy to commit murder.
Every thing being done is with in the bounds of the game htfu and implement a better screening process for spies. |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
okst666 wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Ahahaha. Haha. Ha. Right. I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed. Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender. Not a law but I have found a court decision. http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.htmlIn Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails) Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk. Except the email sent in game is not private. You accepted the eula which expressly states you waive the right to privacy in game . The reason is because espionage is an ingame activity that is part of the game. So try again. |
|
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:35:00 -
[81] - Quote
okst666 wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Ahahaha. Haha. Ha. Right. I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed. Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender. Not a law but I have found a court decision. http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.htmlIn Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails) Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk.
That's not really correct. The law regarding publication of the mail in Germany is highly dependant upon the content of the mail. Even if you take corp mails as actual mails your employee sends you there is no clear law and you would have to get a judge involved. And even then, the person responsible is the guy who gave out his API key.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Yeaaaaaaa cause spying in internet spaceships... Same thing as espionage IRL
I can imagine the lawyer: "But your honor, EVE IS REAL It said so on the web page for the service some months back."
Yeah Im quotin myself, you wanna fight about it?
but Im lolling at my own comment is why.
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Didnt see this in any terms and conditions. Iv used that ASCII hundreds of times on the forum. Nothing has ever come of it! I can understand why they would'nt be allowed but meh, hardly care. It was appropriate and it was in good taste!
Didnt say it wasnt, an mine was too but you can catch warnings for the stupidest things, just thought Id actually go against the grain of EVE and help for once lol
Geil Ding wrote:Funny how dumb people can really be, or try to undermine the words being said by attacking the person and not the arguments. I am pretty sure everybody would burn CCP if they would make every mail public send ingame.
Funny thing about THAT...
Quote:Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing GÇ£in characterGÇ¥ disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.
Report em. Stupidity isnt fatal sadly but in this case it is bannable lol |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:48:00 -
[83] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Serious, this is all part of the game. Don't like it? deal with it! You can't expect CCP to hold your hand and help you to weed out spies. It's up to you how to do that, that's what makes EvE great, you choose how to play, and if there's an obstacle, you find ways around it, or how to remove it. Not cry to CCP that it's unfair.
Dont like it? Leave. That IS how CCP weeds out ppl who cant deal with EVE
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
cpu939 wrote:i might be wrong but do not all in game items belong to ccp.
i might be wrong but does not everything in the game belong to ccp? Including communications. Ev rey thing
|
Mr Studmuffin
Aeternix Penumbra Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:53:00 -
[85] - Quote
my 2 isk...
I think that there is a great many whiny ass alliance CEO's and directors here moaning and complaining. lets face it, you guys have spies and they are posting your information.
so here is a tip.... GO FIND YOUR FREAKING MANCARDS, I THINK YOU LOST THEM!
solve your spy problems! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:Metal Icarus wrote:free intel with no work involved nice. Wish local could work as good.
This is so bullshit its broken IMO. Alliance leaders should be the only ones able to post alliance mails in their API's.
INB4 alliances creating encrypted mails and CODE-BREAKING ACTUALLY BECOMES A SKILL They can be, it generally requires the communication officer role in order to post alliance mails, what the OP wants is to basically select what mails certain people receive (spais) but theirs nothing stopping spais copy/pastea into internet webpages and it doesn't breach international laws, you press send, the mail becomes CCP property. EDIT: encrypted mails would be so cool, "the bird has flown the nest" loooool
hmmmm need Malkavian - English translation page
Geil Ding wrote:I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics"... I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing.
AH HAHAHAHAAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*snort* *snork*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA etc |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:56:00 -
[87] - Quote
I am a EvE player from 2005, I know how things work in EvE. This post was for CCP to read, not to fuel a discussion between fellow players. I am sure CCP devs have read this and will act upon as they see fit. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I am a EvE player from 2005, I know how things work in EvE. This post was for CCP to read, not to fuel a discussion between fellow players. I am sure CCP devs have read this and will act upon as they see fit.
My main is too. and Im sure theyre laughing too
Gorki Andropov wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Gorki Andropov wrote:Likes received: 0
Says it all, really. Oh hell when did Likes start mattering? Or is it just to you? Well, they started mattering the minute you found fault to pick with what I said ^^
to you? ah ok...
They dont matter to anyone else. They dont matter to me either, what mattered to me was that it was funny someone STILL thought they did... lol You have fun with that tho
0/10 You HAVE to be able to troll better...
If you cant, you have my pity |
Aglea Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I am a EvE player from 2005, I know how things work in EvE. This post was for CCP to read, not to fuel a discussion between fellow players. I am sure CCP devs have read this and will act upon as they see fit.
OH NOES... 2005... OH NOES... You know how Eve works... LOL
*CCP* ATTENTION *CCP* ATTENTION *CCP*
Please for the love comment on this... this is the height of hilarity.
|
Mr Studmuffin
Aeternix Penumbra Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:00:00 -
[90] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I am a EvE player from 2005, I know how things work in EvE. This post was for CCP to read, not to fuel a discussion between fellow players. I am sure CCP devs have read this and will act upon as they see fit.
Im gonna have to call B__S___ on this one! if you wanted CCP only to read this, you would have filed a petition! instead, you went on an out of corp alt, knowing that you would be fueling a fire. so my response to you is...
FORGET THE MANCARD.....YOU MIGHT WANT TO START WITH A POSTAGESTAMP SIZE MANCARD |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:02:00 -
[91] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:If a player would copy/paste the mail themselves then it their problem, CCP did not help them doing so. Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Imagine the government to make everything public what was send to them, like letters, tax submissions, etc. Or a doctor who would make everything public about his patients, I mean.. he is free to share everything was is being shared with him, right? Wrong, it is all against the law. feel free to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_privacy
IN GAME MAIL =/= Email.
Ask a lawyer. HEY WHERES MITTENS
SpaceSquirrels wrote:1. It's an in game mail system 2. Spam mail sent to lots of members 3. It's not stealing if they send it to you. (Or reasonable expectation of privacy)
4. Go sue them or nothing will change.
(your doctor law AKA HIPAA here in the U.S) is not allowed to give out patient info unless consent was granted... That's not the same as getting mail sent to you and you the person then sharing it.) Lets say your doctor send your results back... You can do whatever the hell you want not them..
However we're not ******* doctors or professionals are we? Were playing a video game...
Im not a Doctor but I RP one in a game....
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Ahahaha. Haha. Ha. Right. I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed. Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender.
Ive got a better one. Go find any law anywhere that makes it illegal for one game player to release the in game emails of another game player. Ill wait. |
Aglea Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:04:00 -
[92] - Quote
Mr Studmuffin wrote:Im gonna have to call B__S___ on this one! if you wanted CCP only to read this, you would have filed a petition! instead, you went on an out of corp alt
My out of corp alt is still more respectable than you or your corp, Mr. Former TJA. |
Mr Studmuffin
Aeternix Penumbra Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:05:00 -
[93] - Quote
Aglea Toralen wrote:Mr Studmuffin wrote:Im gonna have to call B__S___ on this one! if you wanted CCP only to read this, you would have filed a petition! instead, you went on an out of corp alt My out of corp alt is still more respectable than you or your corp, Mr. Former TJA.
the key word is former lol. i have repented of my sins! |
Aglea Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:06:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mr Studmuffin wrote:the key word is former lol. i have repented of my sins!
You're still tainted...
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:06:00 -
[95] - Quote
Destru Kaneda wrote:Surely people have been sharing Evemail-based intel since day one? So just because an API makes it easier we need to remove the feature? Look, any rational person would understand that the problem is not with the API, but people using it to leak mails. After all they could still just copy and paste. For someone with a software engineering degree you are being willfully ignorant. You're supposed to be a proponent of innovation, not a technophobic blowhard.
Wasnt this part of how the T20 affair was breached by **********?
Oh **** CCP MAY wanna cover this up O.o
Aglea Toralen wrote:Mr Studmuffin wrote:the key word is former lol. i have repented of my sins! You're still tainted...
Or a Taint? The body part
Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another.
No.... your ISP is your ISP. you connect TO EVE THROUGH your ISP.... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
Jeez man tell me youre trolling... PLEASE. Otherwise Id have to ask a person such as this (not you mind you) that was displaying this significant lack of inherent intelligence (not directing this at you though) If they have to remind themselves to breathe?
|
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:13:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hey OP will give 1billion isk for some of what your are smoking LOL
Eve is real went to someones head
Also wikileaks anyone? LOL |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
309
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:14:00 -
[98] - Quote
For a anti-social this Malkavian guy sure has turned into a post-a-holic. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:15:00 -
[99] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:Geil Ding wrote:May I point out that it is not the player itself who is making the mails public but CCP through the API? CCP is acting as an ISP where it relays a message from one player to another. Sowhen someone gives their email login to someone else the mail provider is breaking the law?
So everyone in WoW that has someone else's RealID (and the RealID thing in general) is breaking international law?? Someone call... Scotland Yard? Whose juristiction is this? |
shawn2
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:17:00 -
[100] - Quote
.. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:18:00 -
[101] - Quote
why doesnt your quote come up when I hit quote? |
shawn2
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:18:00 -
[102] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Jeez man tell me youre trolling... PLEASE. Otherwise Id have to ask a person such as this (not you mind you) that was displaying this significant lack of inherent intelligence (not directing this at you though) If they have to remind themselves to breathe? Twulf wrote:
The game company behind the game is bound by international law you idiot.
Are you honestly trying to DEFEND this argument??!
did the person who constructed this god awful, incredibly hard to read sentence actually complain about someone's intellect?
did you audition for the movie dumb and dumber by chance?
re-posted since the linky thing didnt work |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:21:00 -
[103] - Quote
Quote:[quote=Antisocial Malkavian]Jeez man tell me youre trolling... PLEASE. Otherwise Id have to ask a person such as this (not you mind you) that was displaying this significant lack of inherent intelligence (not directing this at you though) If they have to remind themselves to breathe?
[quote=Twulf]
did the person who constructed this god awful, incredibly hard to read sentence actually complain about someone's intellect?
did you audition for the movie dumb and dumber by chance?
Are you really trying to look this bad?
And trying so had you had to repost it?
Well it worked. Good job... I guess |
shawn2
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:26:00 -
[104] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Quote:[quote=Antisocial Malkavian]Jeez man tell me youre trolling... PLEASE. Otherwise Id have to ask a person such as this (not you mind you) that was displaying this significant lack of inherent intelligence (not directing this at you though) If they have to remind themselves to breathe?
[quote=Twulf]
did the person who constructed this god awful, incredibly hard to read sentence actually complain about someone's intellect?
did you audition for the movie dumb and dumber by chance? Are you really trying to look this bad? And trying so had you had to repost it? (Calling me stupid for using words bigger than one syllable you apparently cant understand doesnt make ME the dumb one just so you know) Well it worked. Good job... I guess
complaining at me because a link didnt work, is hardly the same as trying to read your piece of crap sentence! clearly, you took 7th grade english about 3 times before you passed. Now, move along little boy. Troll someone as dumb as you, Geil perhaps!
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:28:00 -
[105] - Quote
shawn2 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Quote:[quote=Antisocial Malkavian]Jeez man tell me youre trolling... PLEASE. Otherwise Id have to ask a person such as this (not you mind you) that was displaying this significant lack of inherent intelligence (not directing this at you though) If they have to remind themselves to breathe?
[quote=Twulf]
did the person who constructed this god awful, incredibly hard to read sentence actually complain about someone's intellect?
did you audition for the movie dumb and dumber by chance? Are you really trying to look this bad? And trying so had you had to repost it? (Calling me stupid for using words bigger than one syllable you apparently cant understand doesnt make ME the dumb one just so you know) Well it worked. Good job... I guess complaining at me because a link didnt work, is hardly the same as trying to read your piece of crap sentence! clearly, you took 7th grade english about 3 times before you passed. Now, move along little boy. Troll someone as dumb as you, Geil perhaps!
Youre the one qqing at me that it was "hard" to read and youre telling ME I took 7th grade English 3 times? Yeah You make my brains (yes both of them) hurt.
You go block now
There made it easy for you
|
highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:30:00 -
[106] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
The player DOES NOT own their API
CCP DOES
where were privacy laws broken? This is damn game... My post was probably full of typos. I don;t care... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:32:00 -
[107] - Quote
okst666 wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Ahahaha. Haha. Ha. Right. I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed. Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender. Not a law but I have found a court decision. http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.htmlIn Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails) Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk.
k, now go do as I suggested and find the one that actually pertains to this situation. Where a player of a video game sued someone else in the same game so that a legal precedence was made to prevent someone from outing their in game emails. Cause then the ppl that wanna crucify Mittani would have yet more ammo. |
highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:35:00 -
[108] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:okst666 wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:Also, the receiver of a mail is not entitled to make the mail public without consent of the sender. Ahahaha. Haha. Ha. Right. I'm sorry, I don't care about your wikipedia article because your initial premise is flawed. Ed: Ok, a challenge. Find me any law in any country that makes it illegal for a person to release regular emails (not medical records, or tax records or classified information or anything like that - just regular emails) without the consent of the sender. Not a law but I have found a court decision. http://www.e-recht24.de/news/sonstige/1061.html In Germany you are not allowed to publish private E-Mails without permission of the sender. As said - this is only a court decision I have found after 3 minutes googleing. I bet if one dives deeper you will find a law.. Be it copyright or "Right on your own words" (translates very badly - basically says you are not allowed to record my voice and play it to othes without my permission - seems easy to adapt to emails) Anyway, I like the Idea of eveskunk. k, now go do as I suggested and find the one that actually pertains to this situation. Where a player of a video game sued someone else in the same game so that a legal precedence was made to prevent someone from outing their in game emails. Cause then the ppl that wanna crucify Mittani would have yet more ammo.
1 - We are not all in Germany 2 - Germany's legal precedents don't hold any water on the international scope 3 - This is not even a legal issue because you signed away those privacy rights when you accepted the EULA
/endthread
My post was probably full of typos. I don;t care... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:41:00 -
[109] - Quote
ISD Grossvogel wrote:It turns out that *this* is the (ahem) official eveskunk.com thread; locking the other thread now.
ibtl lol |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:46:00 -
[110] - Quote
POP and lock. |
|
Amanda Holland
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 20:46:00 -
[111] - Quote
roboto212 wrote:POP and lock.
Or not it would seem. THIS wasnt the "other thread"
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=103283&find=unread
this was
ßâÜ(a¦át¢èa¦áßâÜ) vroom vroom motorcycle CCP to the sandbox: "This "adapt or die" attitude is nothing new to EVE, but we want to give it a constant rhythm that is a bit more under our control than in the past" |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 20:49:00 -
[112] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Internet spaceship lawyers... fixed that for you. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1319
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:19:00 -
[113] - Quote
Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1319
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:19:00 -
[114] - Quote
roboto212 wrote:POP and lock.
If you know how to pop lock you have to pass it on brother "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Degren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:28:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies.
Just cause this was so funny
http://imgur.com/859F2
Edit: Suddenly notices disproportionate amount of blackspace on the right side of the picture and cringes.
Posts it in the thread so you notice too. . |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:30:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:roboto212 wrote:POP and lock. If you know how to pop lock you have to pass it on brother Passing it with the url http://www.eveskunk.com/api.php You have manually create the api key then manually add it. |
Edward Anthony Cullen
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:40:00 -
[117] - Quote
highonpop wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
k, now go do as I suggested and find the one that actually pertains to this situation. Where a player of a video game sued someone else in the same game so that a legal precedence was made to prevent someone from outing their in game emails. Cause then the ppl that wanna crucify Mittani would have yet more ammo.
1 - We are not all in Germany 2 - Germany's legal precedents don't hold any water on the international scope 3 - This is not even a legal issue because you signed away those privacy rights when you accepted the EULA /endthread
um... read what he said again cause I dont see anything where dude said "yes that german law applies here"
Quote:k, now go do as I suggested and find the one that actually pertains to this situation. Where a player of a video game sued someone else in the same game so that a legal precedence was made to prevent someone from outing their in game emails
nope, dont see anything about Germany.
|
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1324
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:44:00 -
[118] - Quote
roboto212 wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:roboto212 wrote:POP and lock. If you know how to pop lock you have to pass it on brother Passing it with the url http://www.eveskunk.com/api.phpYou have manually create the api key then manually add it.
For clarification this appears to be them attempting to harvest API keys. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:The source of the API's could also be from players who left corp x to join corp y where corp x uses the API.. but thats for the player to fix.. delete the old API and make a new one.
But this case mails send by others are made public. Also the EULA is intended for use inside EvE and CCP, not a third party website. But it aint the mails through an API that is a problem, but the sending party is no option at all.. they have no option to exclude the sended mail from the API.
If someone sends an alliance mail they knowingly send it to everyone in the alliance, in the knowledge any of them could be agents or may in future have a greivance. This has always been the case, alliance mails have been leaked since there was first alliances. The API hasn't changed that. Was it really so much better when they were copy/pasted by hand into forum threads?
If you want to "exlude from the API" dont send the mail to whoever you want to exclude. No-one in ther right mind sends anything important in alliance mails anyway.
|
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:49:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies.
I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? |
|
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
203
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
Dear nub,
CCP owns all your ingame creations, YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO PRIVACY. God forbid you are doing personal RL things in eve mails of all the possible forms of communication. But you agreed to the TOS and EULA when playing this gae
Also,
Quote:8.Limitation of Liability. IN NO EVENT WILL CCP, OR ANY OF ITS AFFILIATES OR SUBSIDIARIES, BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, DIRECT OR INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DMAGES, LOSSES OR EXPENSES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOST PROFITS, DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION, LOSS OF PRIVACY AND LOSS OF USE, ARSISING IN CONNECTION WITH THIS SITE OR USE THEREOF OR INABILITY TO USE BY ANY PARTY, OR INCONNECTION WITH ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE, ERROR, OMISSION, INTERRUPTION, DEFECT, DELAY IN OPERATION OR TRANSMISSION, COMPUTER VIRUS OR SYSTEM FAILURE, EVEN IF CCP, HF, OR AFFILIATES THEREOF, ARE ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, LOSSES OR EXPENSES. IN ADDITION, IN NO EVENT WILL CCP, HF BE LIABLE FOR ANY ACT OR OMISSION OF ANY THIRD PARTY INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY PROVIDER OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS SERVICES, INTERNET ACCESS OR COMPUTER EQUIPMENT OR SOFTWARE OR FOR ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND ITS CONTROL INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, FIRE, FLOOD OR OTHER NATURAL DISASTER, WAR, RIOT, STRIKE, ACT OF CIVIL OR MILITARY AUTHORITY, EQUIPMENT FAILURE, COMPUTER VIRUS, OR FAILURE OR INTERRUPTION OF ELECTRICAL, TELECOMMUNICATIONS OR OTHER UTILITY SERVICES. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1326
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:53:00 -
[122] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common?
If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
98
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:54:00 -
[123] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing. You sent those mails to members of your alliance. Those members are free to do what they want with those mails.
This is not exactly true in some cases. If you sent an email to someone in confidence with the expectation of privacy and the content turns out to be damaging and is deliberately made publc by the recipient, the recipent has broken the law. While he will probably not go to jail, he could lose quite a bit in court depending on the damages. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Karadion Kohlar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:55:00 -
[124] - Quote
Internet lawyer here! There is no expectation of privacy, OP. Go cry in a corner now with your dunce hat. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
203
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:56:00 -
[125] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing. You sent those mails to members of your alliance. Those members are free to do what they want with those mails. This is not exactly true in some cases. If you sent an email to someone in confidence with the expectation of privacy and the content turns out to be damaging and is deliberately made publc by the recipient, the recipent has broken the law. While he will probably not go to jail, he could lose quite a bit in court depending on the damages.
It can only be damaging in the world of eve. Unless you are having an affair THROUGH EVE MAILS THROUGH ALLIANCE MAIL then no judge will even take the case. They will laugh at you. You have no damages from video game politics. |
Internet Lawyer Steve
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:57:00 -
[126] - Quote
Karadion Kohlar wrote:Internet lawyer here! There is no expectation of privacy, OP. Go cry in a corner now with your dunce hat.
Please do not follow Karadion Kohlar. She has been disbarred from the New Eden Lawyers Association.
Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,
Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:57:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you.
Tell him I said ouch!!
Buuuuuurn
Barbara Nichole wrote:
This is not exactly true in some cases. If you sent an email to someone in confidence with the expectation of privacy and the content turns out to be damaging and is deliberately made publc by the recipient, the recipent has broken the law. While he will probably not go to jail, he could lose quite a bit in court depending on the damages.
so.... nothing given ISK has no real world value. |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:57:00 -
[128] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing. You sent those mails to members of your alliance. Those members are free to do what they want with those mails. This is not exactly true in some cases. If you sent an email to someone in confidence with the expectation of privacy and the content turns out to be damaging and is deliberately made publc by the recipient, the recipent has broken the law. While he will probably not go to jail, he could lose quite a bit in court depending on the damages. Dear dumb azz you waived the expectation of privacy when you agreed to the eula specifically because Ccp foresaw corporate espionage and wanted to be safe from this issue. So if you type it in game you have the same expectation of privacy as if you published in a news paper. |
Karadion Kohlar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:59:00 -
[129] - Quote
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:Internet lawyer here! There is no expectation of privacy, OP. Go cry in a corner now with your dunce hat. Please do not follow Karadion Kohlar. She has been disbarred from the New Eden Lawyers Association. I never applied to the New Eden Lawyers Association. I am a certified member of the GoonSwarm Federation Lawyers Association though. |
Shian Yang
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:02:00 -
[130] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common?
Greetings capsuleer,
Throughout human history people have sought to secure their lines of communication. Millenia ago the Summerian traders would seal and bake tokens of commerce within clay tablets to secure them. Emperor Augustus used a simple shift cipher to secure his messages. As those interested in reading those messages became more adept, so more complex ciphers and means of communication evolved.
With the advent of electronics and now, in New Eden, we see vast processing arrays and multi-dimensional geometric encryption. Note how the Caldari encrypt their business transactions to keep them safe from prying eyes.
You need to decide what information you release and in which format you do so. To paint your battle plans on a Nidhogger and park it outside Jita would be foolish. You would not do it. Thus, knowing this is an unsecure medium, do not send confidential or secret information in plaintext using this.
Adjust and adapt. The security of your communication is your job.
Regards,
Shian Yang |
|
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you.
I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision.
As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but this is wrong. There is no interaction anymore, everything is automated. |
Cunanium
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:05:00 -
[132] - Quote
highonpop wrote:
1 - We are not all in Germany 2 - Germany's legal precedents don't hold any water on the international scope 3 - This is not even a legal issue because you signed away those privacy rights when you accepted the EULA
/endthread
1. CCP does business in Germany and is thus prosecutable under German Law, reference Italian and German (and now EU) cases against Google for You Tube.
2. Privacy and accountability are held at different levels based on national law, are defined by nations, and are enforced by said nations. In the case for Google vs Italy, a mentally disabled boy was recorded and said video was posted on you tube. Google was found to be negligent for the privacy breach, even though Google never video taped the boy, nor posted the video(although they removed the video immediately after being notified of the offensive nature of the video), though the case is now in appeals.
3. EULA and TOS have been ruled against as legally binding documents. I can put in a EULA/TOS that I have the right to harvest your organs, doesn't make it legal. There is a rather outstanding case against Microsoft and their exceptionally brutal EULA/TOS in Windows XP that was overturned in US courts. I have a little fuzy as to the nature of the dispute, but it had to do with installing the OS on multiple computers. If I remember correctly Microsoft was trying to say that every computer needed a unique OS, even if said owner built a new computer or simply changed mobo/cpu. It was ruled that the user had purchased a single license of Windows XP and was legally permitted to run a single license of Windows XP, regardless of the computer in which it was running without breaching copy right protections.
That all being said, I don't believe that disclosure of evemails is a breach of any form of privacy, though if information is contained within that media, it may be ruled by some of the more conservative nations that it is. I just thing the OP needs to stop bitching so much. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:07:00 -
[133] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you. I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision. As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but this is wrong. There is no interaction anymore, everything is automated.
Ah, Sreeqs, Youre feeding the troll. Man you should know better |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:08:00 -
[134] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you. I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision. As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but this is wrong. There is no interaction anymore, everything is automated. So your real problem is that the proliferation of gathered intelligence is done in a public and automated manor. Well to bad htfu. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:09:00 -
[135] - Quote
Edward Anthony Cullen wrote:highonpop wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
k, now go do as I suggested and find the one that actually pertains to this situation. Where a player of a video game sued someone else in the same game so that a legal precedence was made to prevent someone from outing their in game emails. Cause then the ppl that wanna crucify Mittani would have yet more ammo.
1 - We are not all in Germany 2 - Germany's legal precedents don't hold any water on the international scope 3 - This is not even a legal issue because you signed away those privacy rights when you accepted the EULA /endthread um... read what he said again cause I dont see anything where dude said "yes that german law applies here" Quote:k, now go do as I suggested and find the one that actually pertains to this situation. Where a player of a video game sued someone else in the same game so that a legal precedence was made to prevent someone from outing their in game emails nope, dont see anything about Germany.
eew agreeing with a Twitard |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1329
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:12:00 -
[136] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you. I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision. As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but this is wrong. There is no interaction anymore, everything is automated. Ah, Sreeqs, Youre feeding the troll. Man you should know better
Sorry I am no layer "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:16:00 -
[137] - Quote
Karadion Kohlar wrote:Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:Internet lawyer here! There is no expectation of privacy, OP. Go cry in a corner now with your dunce hat. Please do not follow Karadion Kohlar. She has been disbarred from the New Eden Lawyers Association. I never applied to the New Eden Lawyers Association. I am a certified member of the GoonSwarm Federation Lawyers Association though.
Which is not recognized by the new Eden supreme court. |
Jandice Ymladris
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction -affliction-
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:17:00 -
[138] - Quote
Serious, this is all part of the game. Don't like it? deal with it! You can't expect CCP to hold your hand and help you to weed out spies. It's up to you how to do that, that's what makes EvE great, you choose how to play, and if there's an obstacle, you find ways around it, or how to remove it. Not cry to CCP that it's unfair.
Also check EULA, it's very clear that all ingame communication in Eve (mail included) is public, in other words CCP expected something like this would happen someday. Time to up your recruitement standards. |
Internet Lawyer Steve
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:19:00 -
[139] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Sorry I am no layer
Internet Lawyer Steve on the scene...
There are enough Internet Lawyers in New Eden. I am glad you are a Layer instead. However I must ask, my associates are dying of curiosity, Is that a 7 layer burrito or do you lay tile, bricks or other forms or things that need laying?
Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,
Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time... |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:19:00 -
[140] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies.
I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you. I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision. As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but Ah, Sreeqs, Youre feeding the troll. Man you should know better
Sorry I am no layer[/quote]
For the record I am no layer too. |
|
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:24:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Sorry I am no layer
Atleast you can't say "wir haben es nicht gewusst" anymore |
Internet Lawyer Steve
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:25:00 -
[142] - Quote
Karadion Kohlar wrote:] I never applied to the New Eden Lawyers Association. I am a certified member of the GoonSwarm Federation Lawyers Association though.
If you were a member of the New Eden Lawyers Association, Your alliance would have known about high sec game mechanics and there would have been less posts on these fine forums. However upon reviewing your past trial history, I will have to submit a 93902 Forum and request that you are never allowed to practice Law in New Eden.
Good Day Maam.
Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,
Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time... |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
341
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:26:00 -
[143] - Quote
To put it in terms the OP might understand.
If yer too dumb and lazy arsed to NOT add mails to your API (which you give to other people on own accord and risk) then you shouldn't whine and cry about something being broken which you yourself smashed off of the table.
I have given out plenty of API's and guess what. Nobody has access to any of my mails unless I want them to. You have that option to and choose to ignore it and then cry about it.
|
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
341
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:27:00 -
[144] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Sorry I am no layer
Atleast you can't say "wir haben es nicht gewusst" anymore
I am also not really charmed by your reference to WW II war criminals in that statement.
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3966
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:28:00 -
[145] - Quote
if you want to be secure from espionage require everyone in your alliance to sign an NDA and submit verifiable proof of their real-life identities
i'm sure the masses will flock right in "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
341
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:31:00 -
[146] - Quote
Andski wrote:if you want to be secure from espionage require everyone in your alliance to sign an NDA and submit verifiable proof of their real-life identities
i'm sure the masses will flock right in
And a player created NDA wouyld hold in which court again?
|
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:32:00 -
[147] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:Jowen Datloran wrote:Internet layers...
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Karadion Kohlar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:32:00 -
[148] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:Internet lawyer here! There is no expectation of privacy, OP. Go cry in a corner now with your dunce hat. Please do not follow Karadion Kohlar. She has been disbarred from the New Eden Lawyers Association. I never applied to the New Eden Lawyers Association. I am a certified member of the GoonSwarm Federation Lawyers Association though. Which is not recognized by the new Eden supreme court. Correct, which we don't recognize either. We have our own supreme court system which New Eden does not have rights over. Only the Clusterfuck Coalition's Court have supremacy over the laws of our land. Pubbies are free to watch but do not have rights to address grievances. |
Karadion Kohlar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:35:00 -
[149] - Quote
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:] I never applied to the New Eden Lawyers Association. I am a certified member of the GoonSwarm Federation Lawyers Association though. If you were a member of the New Eden Lawyers Association, Your alliance would have known about high sec game mechanics and there would have been less posts on these fine forums. However upon reviewing your past trial history, I will have to submit a 93902 Forum and request that you are never allowed to practice Law in New Eden. Good Day Maam. High-sec game mechanics? We know all about them and are truly experts at this. In fact, we know more about them than any of you pubbies do. Observing your statements, I have rejected you to be truly an expert of high-sec game mechanics and therefore move to disbar you from practicing any "interweb laws" in or outside the game. |
Shian Yang
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:37:00 -
[150] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:I have given out plenty of API's and guess what. Nobody has access to any of my mails unless I want them to.
Greetings capsuleer,
Whilst I do not support the insanity of capsuleer Geil Ding; what would occur if you sent your mail to someone else who has chosen to unlock their neural interface? Would your communication not become visible? They could even simply copy the text and include it in a mail of their own.
There is an old earth saying: "If you would keep your secret from an enemy, tell it not to a friend."
Regards,
Shian Yang |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3967
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Andski wrote:if you want to be secure from espionage require everyone in your alliance to sign an NDA and submit verifiable proof of their real-life identities
i'm sure the masses will flock right in And a player created NDA wouyld hold in which court again?
a real one considering that a violation would be a breach of a real contract?
that's assuming that anybody would even be bothered to enter into such an agreement over a video game "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Degren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
212
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:41:00 -
[152] - Quote
Andski wrote:if you want to be secure from espionage require everyone in your alliance to sign an NDA and submit verifiable proof of their real-life identities
i'm sure the masses will flock right in
I wonder if you're playing what I think you might be playing. . |
Oberlyn Oahl
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:44:00 -
[153] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I am not a layer but a programmer with a Masters degree in Software Engineering. An important topic is "ethics". We, as programmers, are often asked to build something that is against privacy laws. Our duty is to point this out and even refuse to help with breaking the law..
In this case CCP did not, intentionaly, break any laws.. as the API was build with a good intention. But right now, parts of the API, are abused in breaking laws. CCP needs to act on this, maybe even change the API.
In almost every country it is against the law to make private information public, like mails. Nobody will go to court over this, thats for sure. I hope CCP received the message and will act upon and do the "ethical" thing. You sent those mails to members of your alliance. Those members are free to do what they want with those mails. This is not exactly true in some cases. If you sent an email to someone in confidence with the expectation of privacy and the content turns out to be damaging and is deliberately made publc by the recipient, the recipent has broken the law. While he will probably not go to jail, he could lose quite a bit in court depending on the damages. It can only be damaging in the world of eve. Unless you are having an affair THROUGH EVE MAILS THROUGH ALLIANCE MAIL then no judge will even take the case. They will laugh at you. You have no damages from something in a video game. *Sniff*... But I thought... Eve is real! |
Crash Raindog
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:03:00 -
[154] - Quote
Just curious, does the OP conduct alliance business in local as well? |
MotherMoon
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
579
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:08:00 -
[155] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you. I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision. As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but this is wrong. There is no interaction anymore, everything is automated.
You are def not a layer. |
Internet Lawyer Steve
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:16:00 -
[156] - Quote
Karadion Kohlar wrote: High-sec game mechanics? We know all about them and are truly experts at this. In fact, we know more about them than any of you pubbies do. Observing your statements, I have rejected you to be truly an expert of high-sec game mechanics and therefore move to disbar you from practicing any "interweb laws" in or outside the game.
There are posts about your FCs not knowing how aggression transfers to neutral players. Posts about how Overviews were to confusing or did not work properly. I could keep going but that would take time.
As a member of DekCo, You know all about exploits, lagging local clients, pushing f1, playing docking games in VFK and my favorite the "Blue Balls" or otherwise known in New Eden as " We dont outnumber you 5 - 1 so we are not going undock then pretend we won because we couldnt get enough people in fleet".
Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,
Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time... |
Flakey Foont
Republic University Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:19:00 -
[157] - Quote
Someone butthurt invoking legality....again.
And using "wir haben es nicht gewusst" is pretty low. |
Karadion Kohlar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:21:00 -
[158] - Quote
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote: High-sec game mechanics? We know all about them and are truly experts at this. In fact, we know more about them than any of you pubbies do. Observing your statements, I have rejected you to be truly an expert of high-sec game mechanics and therefore move to disbar you from practicing any "interweb laws" in or outside the game.
There are posts about your FCs not knowing how aggression transfers to neutral players. Posts about how Overviews were to confusing or did not work properly. I could keep going but that would take time. As a member of DekCo, You know all about exploits, lagging local clients, pushing f1, playing docking games in VFK and my favorite the "Blue Balls" or otherwise known in New Eden as " We dont outnumber you 5 - 1 so we are not going undock then pretend we won because we couldnt get enough people in fleet". Exploits? Prove this. Lagging local clients? Prove this again.
You are free to report any of these actions to CCP. Oh wait, you aren't going to.
Besides, VFK is ours and we are free to do what we want to do with it as we please. If you disagree, you are free to seize VFK and kick us out of the station.
There are posts by our FC's? Such as who? Dabigredboat? Are you refering to the Thorn Syndicate war declaration exploit where they declared as a corporation within an alliance and GSF could not attack back because it was not a proper war declaration so they were free to attack GSF at will without Concord intervention. CCP personally had intervened in this and nullified the war declaration and fixed it themselves at DT.
Again, we are better at high-sec than you are. We just do not live in high-sec because A) It is dumb B) you are a bunch of carebears that scream foul everytime we gank you babies. Also we had an efficiency rate of 4-1 against freighters and targets alike. Where's your record? Oh wait, you're just a terrible pubbie who reads EN24 and think they are 100% accurate in their reporting.
You know what you are? A terrible pubbie. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:56:00 -
[159] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote::words: Sorry I am no layer
This is awesome, could you teach the other CCPs like Phantom and guard to be awesome as well? |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
811
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 01:12:00 -
[160] - Quote
roboto212 wrote: For the record I am no layer too.
In the sense that you never have and never will lay with a woman, that is strictly correct.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
|
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
815
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 01:15:00 -
[161] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote::words: Sorry I am no layer This is awesome, could you teach the other CCPs like Phantom and guard to be awesome as well?
He can't the other devs weren't Goonfleet CEOs.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
roboto212
Hull Breach Inc. Double Tap.
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 01:44:00 -
[162] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:roboto212 wrote: For the record I am no layer too.
In the sense that you never have and never will lay with a woman, that is strictly correct.
lol that's about the wittiest thing i have ever heard from a goon. |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
815
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 01:50:00 -
[163] - Quote
roboto212 wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:roboto212 wrote: For the record I am no layer too.
In the sense that you never have and never will lay with a woman, that is strictly correct. lol that's about the wittiest thing i have ever heard from a goon.
Read more goon posts then, I'm not even close to being the Tyrion Lannister of GoonWaffe.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 02:02:00 -
[164] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:La Nariz wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote::words: Sorry I am no layer This is awesome, could you teach the other CCPs like Phantom and guard to be awesome as well? He can't the other devs weren't Goonfleet CEOs.
CCP Devs should be forced to go through a posting gauntlet in FYAD. |
Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian Pinked
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 02:08:00 -
[165] - Quote
Quote:Quote:Quote:Aruken Marr wrote:Quote:Internet lawyers... I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
385
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 02:23:00 -
[166] - Quote
I like this, I only wish it would happen in game more instead of the forums all the time. Ferox #1 |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 02:58:00 -
[167] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common?
Once you send them to another person, they aren't 'your mails' anymore.
Still waiting for that law sweetheart. |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 03:02:00 -
[168] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote: I am no layer, but as a developer I ain't allowed to make certain information public. This website and the use of the API has red flags all over them. I just here to point the red flags for you guys to make an educated decision.
As a player I really find this wrong. Meta gaming and spying has always been a part of EvE, but this is wrong. There is no interaction anymore, everything is automated.
Yes, because you signed an NDA preventing you from doing that. You voluntarily take on extra restrictions as part of your business. And if you choose to breach those regulations by sending the information to another person, the ISP is not liable and that third party has -no such restrictions- on them. (Excluding certain types of classified information)
So if you accidently mail the details on your next big corporate merger to someone from CNN and they publish it, the only person who is going to be hit by the law train is you. Not your ISP, not CNN, not the readers. Just you.
What you should be doing when you recruit a new person into your corp is fly to their house and make them sign an NDA, then you could legitimately sue them (not CCP!) for releasing your corporate secrets. |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
820
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 03:05:00 -
[169] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:La Nariz wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote::words: Sorry I am no layer This is awesome, could you teach the other CCPs like Phantom and guard to be awesome as well? He can't the other devs weren't Goonfleet CEOs. CCP Devs should be forced to go through a posting gauntlet in FYAD.
Careful what you wish for.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
D3F4ULT
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 03:10:00 -
[170] - Quote
This indeed is why CCP Devs are the best devs. You can not troll a troll. Creator of CCP ZULU - Incarna : Pants Online ( http://youtu.be/AObrlCf3Dcs ) |
|
Spymaster Bates
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 06:23:00 -
[171] - Quote
Quote:If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you.
<3 the Devs.
I think we can be done with the thread.
Lessons learned since EvE Skunks Launch.
- Whiners gonna whine
- Leaking intel is fun
- The tears from this thread have sated my hunger for a small time
- EvE Devs are the best trolls
Twitter - @eveskunk |
Aglea Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 09:39:00 -
[172] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:For clarification this appears to be them attempting to harvest API keys.
:edit: Well if by "harvest" I meant just openly asking for them
CCP Sreegs,
Does this mean the care bear tears will increase now ... it would seem while CCP hasn't endorsed it, there is no condemnation of it either... seeing as my account hasn't been banned/no cease and desist letter has been sent.
Also, I invite you to post your API for CCP Sreegs on the site, I'm sure we'd all love to see the alliance emails for CCP.... Surely there is a disgruntled employee somewhere in CCP! It will remain anonymous and no personal or corporate email will be published! |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
349
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 12:30:00 -
[173] - Quote
Shian Yang wrote: Whilst I do not support the insanity of capsuleer Geil Ding; what would occur if you sent your mail to someone else who has chosen to unlock their neural interface? Would your communication not become visible? They could even simply copy the text and include it in a mail of their own.
There is an old earth saying: "If you would keep your secret from an enemy, tell it not to a friend."
Regards,
Shian Yang
One can easy put the blame then with the one who chose to unlock their neural interface. However the initial blame lies with the one who chose to reveal his mail in the first place.
Older earth saying: " Don't blame the rock when you trip over it"
As soon I myself decide to reveal mails to someone, the responcebility I had to keep certain affairs safe and hidden still remained with me. I choce to reveal the mails in the first place so any actions that come out of it remain my own responcebility. The only actions I control are my own. For the rest I know or should have known that there is no control.
|
Karbowiak
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 12:34:00 -
[174] - Quote
All you whining idiots, do realise that.
1: This has always happened, albeit not in an open fasion like this 2: There is nothing in the EULA or TOS or otherwise that will save you, so you might aswell quit while you're ahead 3: Claiming international law in a video game is absurd, but sure, if you like that permanent black mark as being a ******** piece of ****, go for it
And finally
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
|
Andrew W-K
University of Caille Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 12:43:00 -
[175] - Quote
I do have some legal training (in the UK).
Sending mail in game, and given the nature of eve it could be expected that it would be posted to the world. If you send private data in eve you deserve whatever embarresment is handed to you.
What a nonsense thread. |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
155
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 13:44:00 -
[176] - Quote
I love how even CCP came and shat on this thread , some people should actually read the EULA thoroughly before spewing crap like this on these forums, or just click decline to accepting it, at least that way we'd have more intelligence in this game than this |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:00:00 -
[177] - Quote
You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends? |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
857
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:02:00 -
[178] - Quote
But I use EVE mail to pay my bills and sign up for social security!
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
350
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:29:00 -
[179] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends?
Let's put it even simpler then, because you don't seem the brightest lightbulb used in the street.
If you don't want things leaked out then why do you make it possible to leak it out by giving certain information to others?
If you don't give personal information to anyone then how can it leak out?
The moment I decide to tell someone something private about me then it is me who voluntarely disclosed that. If I didn't want them to know then it can just as easy be my choice not to give that information. You choose to disclose the information and with it also the risk that entrails.
|
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
155
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:31:00 -
[180] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends?
You're blowing it completely out of proportion like you have for the entire thread, whoever is posting API's to that site are more than likely using alts because I know I wouldn't want personal gameplay messages posted there and considering eveskunk only posts alliance wide messages I don't know anyone who would alliancewide post links to illegal content when anyone else could just as easily report it to CCP and CCP pull it .
As stipulated in the EULA and several links in this thread any private information you post in any form in game is at your own risk and is then posted under the assumption that it is no longer private, DONT EVEMAIL IF YOU WANT ANYTHING KEPT RL PRIVATE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDW0ZnZxjn4 |
|
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
374
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:34:00 -
[181] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
I would think that private emails would be more suitable for discussing that cyst on your ass than the alliance email. And if you choose to send any account information over a unsecured third party system, well, you deserve whatever comes your way. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
640
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:36:00 -
[182] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote: I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common?
*hushed voice* ARMAGEDDON *hushed voice* - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
329
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:55:00 -
[183] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends?
Dude, stop. Just stop already.
I have done my research on business law and I have learned, given what is said on the End User License Agreement and on the Terms of Service, that the fact that Eve-mails being exposed like this has no legal implications. You agreed to the EULA/TOS when you signed up for Eve Online. Therefore, no right-minded lawyer or layer will ever help you. They will laugh at you and then move on.
Stop trying to troll us because it's not working. Stop pretending that you can have CCP undo your stupid mistakes for not checking for spies in your corp and not updating your API accordingly, and stop embarrassing yourself. Actually, never mind. Keep embarrassing yourself. We need more tears. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1122
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 16:10:00 -
[184] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends? The author of the original link would be culpable, whether he intended the communication private or not (the medium is specified non-private).
Everyone else in the chain has plausible deniability due to
a) Their TOS prohibiting you writing that content in the first place b) They're providing a medium and offer no content control, make no pretense to, and indeed outright state the authorship remains with the author.
You're basically using a service that makes no pretense to privacy and security and OPENLY gives tools to other users of that service to intercept those communications. You sign an agreement to allow this.
If you're posting private messages with the above caveats in place, you're doing it wrong. If you're posting private in-game messages, then, well, you just got meta-gamed son. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Ibrihm Esenhorn
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 16:54:00 -
[185] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
I can be pretty sure that, in the US at least, email does not have a general expectation of privacy. Barring single communication with a spouse, lawyer, or limited protection for doctors any recipient of an email can make it public with no legal repercussions - even if the email says something along the lines of "for authorized use only". |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 17:13:00 -
[186] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Geil Ding wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. I miss the option where MY mails are excluded from the API of another player. Aside of the legal aspect, what do you think what will happen with the ingame features "corp mail" and "alliance mail" when sites like these will become more common? Once you send them to another person, they aren't 'your mails' anymore. Still waiting for that law sweetheart.
An Im waiting for the one that directly relates to EVE or any video game in game mail
Geil reminds me of someone that would throw money at a case like thing JUST to GET A precedence |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 17:44:00 -
[187] - Quote
First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless. |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
155
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 17:44:00 -
[188] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless.
MMO's are not for you... |
Spymaster Bates
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 20:19:00 -
[189] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless.
Get out now!
The end is coming!
/thread Twitter - @eveskunk |
Overseer Aliena
Lord of Wars
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 20:26:00 -
[190] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote: I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law
But...but..your title says there was breach of national laws! You stated in your OP that there was! You sounded so sure and I believed you. And now I find it was all a lie...
Thank you Geil Ding, I have learned a valuable lesson today. I can never trust another human being ever again. |
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 20:55:00 -
[191] - Quote
Overseer Aliena wrote:Geil Ding wrote: I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law But...but..your title says there was breach of national laws! You stated in your OP that there was! You sounded so sure and I believed you. And now I find it was all a lie... Thank you Geil Ding, I have learned a valuable lesson today. I can never trust another human being ever again. You can trust me.
Let me hold your wallet.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
EFF ONEF1
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:36:00 -
[192] - Quote
Does anyone know if that one alliance asking for ts donations ever got them? I'd be sad if they couldn't hear mouth breathing anymore |
Aglea Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:45:00 -
[193] - Quote
EFF ONEF1 wrote:Does anyone know if that one alliance asking for ts donations ever got them? I'd be sad if they couldn't hear mouth breathing anymore
It was one of the first things I spammed in Jita!
http://www.eveskunk.com/?messageID=312635286
Hopefully they did, maybe they can send a follow up alliance email. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
196
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:52:00 -
[194] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:Geil Ding wrote:First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless. MMO's are not for you...
OP is an idiot but I do think the bigger idiot is the one that thinks an EULA or TOS is law. |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 22:46:00 -
[195] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:seany1212 wrote:Geil Ding wrote:First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless. MMO's are not for you... OP is an idiot but I do think the bigger idiot is the one that thinks an EULA or TOS is law.
It's not 'law', but it is a legally binding contract and therefore subject to 'contract law' which is an actual law. Of course since CCP only have offices in the US, UK, China and Iceland, you'd have to go to one of those places to sue them. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
197
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 22:50:00 -
[196] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:seany1212 wrote:Geil Ding wrote:First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless. MMO's are not for you... OP is an idiot but I do think the bigger idiot is the one that thinks an EULA or TOS is law. It's not 'law', but it is a legally binding contract and therefore subject to 'contract law' which is an actual law. Of course since CCP only have offices in the US, UK, China and Iceland, you'd have to go to one of those places to sue them.
It is not a legally binding contract by law, in the US last trial about that had the judge throw the case out. In the EU it has already been declared to violate existing law.
Welcome to the idiot club.
I also do not have to go to one of those places to sue them, I can sue them in any country they operate in as selling their products and services, that includes all of the EU, just FYI that's all! |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
840
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 23:37:00 -
[197] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies.
Once a goodposter always a goodposter. |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
414
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 00:21:00 -
[198] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:any discussion on this topic is pointless
First sensible thing you've said in the entire thread
|
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 00:49:00 -
[199] - Quote
Xython wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Can someone please just post an image of the API key creation page where you need to purposefully check mail messages for them to be included and end this thread?
I'd do it but I'm lazy and tired and today's a holiday so I'm watching movies. Once a goonposter always a goonposter.
|
Adria Origin
Yar Har Fiddle Di Dee
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 01:16:00 -
[200] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:If you stop pretending there's a legal aspect I'm happy to explain this to you.
If you'd stop making EVE easier we'd have less idiots like this. Just sayin' |
|
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
331
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 03:14:00 -
[201] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:First of all the EULA has no legal value, at all.. Torrent sites all have an EULA, yet they are all found illegal. Any EULA, or contract, that breaks the law in one way or another will be nullified. I do not know if the website, or the API, breaks any law but it is worth investigating by CCP and define a stance on such sites. But whether or not if it is against any law, atleast it is unethical.
I do think this topic needs to be locked as enough has been said. It is clear that the privacy laws is different for most players and any discussion on this topic is pointless.
I don't see any lawyers in real life complaining about eve-mails being misused like this, after all these years of this happening, so how about you shut up and get out of this game. It's obvious you don't know the first thing about law. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 03:29:00 -
[202] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:
It is not a legally binding contract by law, in the US last trial about that had the judge throw the case out. In the EU it has already been declared to violate existing law.
Welcome to the idiot club.
I also do not have to go to one of those places to sue them, I can sue them in any country they operate in as selling their products and services, that includes all of the EU, just FYI that's all!
The EULA is a legally-binding contract for the service provided. It's why the vast majority of big businesses that offer services have these as a requirement to agree to. The contract is thrown out by the court if and when the provisions of the contract violate the law or does not meet the minimum elements needed to count as a valid contract.
This is from my business law class here in US.
Quote:E-CONTRACTS REFER TO THOSE LEGAL PRINCIPLES WHICH ADAPT TRADITIONAL CONTRACTING STANDARDS, RULES, AND REQUIREMENTS, TO MEET THE NEW TECHNOLOGY OF COMMERCIAL CYBERSPACE TRANSACTIONS. THE STANDARD CONTRACT RULES OF OFFER, ACCEPTANCE, CONSIDERATION STILL APPLY TO E-CONTRACTS, HOWEVER, HOW THEY ARE MANIFESTED AS HISTORICAL RECORDS MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM TRADITIONAL PAPER RECORDS.
ONLINE OFFERS INCLUDES CHECK BOXES INDICATING THAT BUYER ACCEPTS ALL TERMS OF THE SELLERGÇÖS OFFER; SCREENS OUTLING THE PAYMENT PROVISIONS; SCREENS OUTLING THE REFUND AND RETURN POLICIES; DISCLAIMERS OF LIABILITY; REMEDIES FOR DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS; STATEMENTS ON HOW THE BUYERGÇÖS INFORMATION WILL BE USED; PROVISIONS FOR DISPUTE RESOLUTION.
Quote:Online Acceptance
CLICK-ON BOXES ARE RECOGNIZED AS AN ACCEPTANCE OF THE TERMS CONTAINED IN THE OFFER; AGREEMENTS ARE RECOGNIZED WHEN THEY ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRODUCT WHEN DELIVERED BY ONLINE ORDERS; STANDARD CONTRACTING PRINCIPLES APPLY TO ONLINE ACCEPTANCE WHERE A CONTRACTGÇÖS TERMS ARE FINALIZED UPON THE BUYER EXECUTING THE ACCEPTANCE IN THE DESIGNATED MANNER. LATER ADDED TERMS ARE NOT BINDING ON THE BUYER. SPECHT VS NETSCAPE COMMUNICATIONS CORP. (PG 260).
Book: [Miller, R. L., & Jentz, G. A. (2009). Fundamentals of business law: Summarized cases. (9th Ed.) Mason, OH: Thomson South-Western. ISBN-13: 978-1111530-624[/quote]
I don't know which trial you are referring to that caused the EULA/TOS to be thrown out, and therefore I am interested in knowing the link for that so I can research it.
===EDIT===
A key thing to remember regarding the case on Specht vs. Netscape is that the reason the TOS was tossed out by the court and ruled in favor of the defendant was because of the fact that the TOS were not conspicuous before the defendant downloaded the free software.
If you look at the EULA/TOS given to you when you try to access Eve Online for the first time upon launching the client, you will see the EULA/TOS pop up in front of you and it will NOT let you continue unless you accept what is written and it will not let you accept unless you read what is written by virtue of the requirement to scroll down the whole text in order to accept. This implies that you have READ the EULA/TOS and therefore you agree to it. Therefore, this is a legally binding contract. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Ares Renton
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Aren't alliance mails those things sent to dozens of anonymous strangers at the same time?
"You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Looks like you agreed already
Actually, I always click decline, so I'm not bound by that. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:06:00 -
[204] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote: This is from my business law class here in US.
Your business class is wrong, it does not hold up in a court of law in the US and both in the EU and states like California it violates existing law and is therefore not legal or considered a signed contract.
Again... sorry!
edit: They are allowed to deny you service, FOR ANY reason (with a few exceptions,) according to existing law, regardless of TOS and EULA. Anything they can do is in accordance with actual law, the rest of EULA and TOS is not. Of course I can demand a refund if you deny me service.
Again, you are wrong!
edit 2, let me explain, EULA and TOS is information, whatever is legal in the EULA and TOS informed you of the law, at best case scenario they can be a means to make sure you cannot deny knowing about existing laws. It is however not a contract, it is impossible to be a contract, it can't be a contract, EVER! Anything else in a TOS and EULA that is not in accordance with existing law for everything has no meaning. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:09:00 -
[205] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote: This is from my business law class here in US.
Your business class is wrong, it does not hold up in a court of law in the US and both in the EU and states like California it violates existing law and is therefore not legal or considered a signed contract. Again... sorry!
Can you please post a link to the case, or at least name the case for me so I can Google it, that mentions that a EULA/TOS of any kind is not a legally-binding contract?
===EDIT===
Read the source I'm citing at the bottom of my post that consists of a wall of text. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:10:00 -
[206] - Quote
Ares Renton wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Aren't alliance mails those things sent to dozens of anonymous strangers at the same time?
"You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Looks like you agreed already Actually, I always click decline, so I'm not bound by that.
Then how are you able to play the Eve Client in the first place? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Benny Ohu
The Lazy Dragoons True Apathy
101
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:15:00 -
[207] - Quote
Ares Renton wrote:Actually, I always click decline, so I'm not bound by that. I don't really want to get into the discussion, but playing the game after bypassing or declining the EULA would be illegal, or implies acceptance...
... so trying to sue CCP for breaching your privacy would be the stupidest of all dumbarse ideas
Also Fannie I think part of the EULA is that any dispute has to be in a court in Iceland |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:19:00 -
[208] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Ares Renton wrote:Actually, I always click decline, so I'm not bound by that. I don't really want to get into the discussion, but playing the game after bypassing or declining the EULA would be illegal, or implies acceptance... ... so trying to sue CCP for breaching your privacy would be the stupidest of all dumbarse ideas Also Fannie I think part of the EULA is that any dispute has to be in a court in Iceland
A) it is not illegal, but pointless perhaps CCP would object and deny that person service but they would lose a complaint for reimbursement.
B) Not true at all, if they lose a dispute and break law in a country where they offer service in let's say the UK then they can enjoy being denied to conduct business in all of EU even. Same goes for the US, you can file a suit in any state there, it would hurt Business operating there.
edit; in any case this whole thread is stupid and pointless, OP is wrong and the ones arguing that EULA and TOS is a binding contract are also wrong, peace.
PS: Your business class is wrong! |
Benny Ohu
The Lazy Dragoons True Apathy
102
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:20:00 -
[209] - Quote
Actually I really really don't want to talk about this why did I ever reply to this thread
You're all wrong, all of you
And that's the truth right there |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:29:00 -
[210] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Ares Renton wrote:Actually, I always click decline, so I'm not bound by that. I don't really want to get into the discussion, but playing the game after bypassing or declining the EULA would be illegal, or implies acceptance... ... so trying to sue CCP for breaching your privacy would be the stupidest of all dumbarse ideas Also Fannie I think part of the EULA is that any dispute has to be in a court in Iceland A) it is not illegal, but pointless perhaps CCP would object and deny that person service but they would lose a complaint for reimbursement. B) Not true at all, if they lose a dispute and break law in a country where they offer service in let's say the UK then they can enjoy being denied to conduct business in all of EU even. Same goes for the US, you can file a suit in any state there, it would hurt Business operating there. edit; in any case this whole thread is stupid and pointless, OP is wrong and the ones arguing that EULA and TOS is a binding contract are also wrong, peace. PS: Your business class is wrong!
Please cite the case or I will ignore everything you said up until now and from now on. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
|
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 04:33:00 -
[211] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Ares Renton wrote:Actually, I always click decline, so I'm not bound by that. I don't really want to get into the discussion, but playing the game after bypassing or declining the EULA would be illegal, or implies acceptance... ... so trying to sue CCP for breaching your privacy would be the stupidest of all dumbarse ideas Also Fannie I think part of the EULA is that any dispute has to be in a court in Iceland A) it is not illegal, but pointless perhaps CCP would object and deny that person service but they would lose a complaint for reimbursement. B) Not true at all, if they lose a dispute and break law in a country where they offer service in let's say the UK then they can enjoy being denied to conduct business in all of EU even. Same goes for the US, you can file a suit in any state there, it would hurt Business operating there. edit; in any case this whole thread is stupid and pointless, OP is wrong and the ones arguing that EULA and TOS is a binding contract are also wrong, peace. PS: Your business class is wrong! Please cite the case or I will ignore everything you said up until now and from now on.
Nope, I wont, I welcome you to ignore me forever because I enjoy watching dumb business students graduate and if lucky work as my bank teller looking jelly when they see my bank account. |
Ferria
Among the Shadows Ex umbra.
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 05:43:00 -
[212] - Quote
You do understand that there are no international privacy laws, so CCP would only need to comply with laws from Iceland, the US, China, and the UK as these are the places they operate. Just because you access their service from somewhere else does not force those laws on them. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
200
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 05:46:00 -
[213] - Quote
Ferria wrote:You do understand that there are no international privacy laws, so CCP would only need to comply with laws from Iceland, the US, China, and the UK as these are the places they operate. Just because you access their service from somewhere else does not force those laws on them.
It does if they offer the service there and wish to continue doing so, also if they operate in the UK they have to abide by the EU as well, in all EU states.
Now you know...
Now you know........
PS: there are no international privacy laws, does not have to be either since there are such laws in Iceland and every single nation in the west basically. But they do not apply here, obviously. |
Shian Yang
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 05:48:00 -
[214] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Ferria wrote:You do understand that there are no international privacy laws, so CCP would only need to comply with laws from Iceland, the US, China, and the UK as these are the places they operate. Just because you access their service from somewhere else does not force those laws on them. It does if they offer the service there and wish to continue doing so, also if they operate in the UK they have to abide by the EU as well, in all EU states. Now you know... Now you know........
Greetings capsuleer Maes,
It is useful to have a leg before you try standing. As capsuleer Haphorn has requested; can you please cite the case you were referring to earlier for those of us curious in the facts - rather than random, inventive lies?
Regards,
Shian Yang |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
200
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 06:12:00 -
[215] - Quote
Shian Yang wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:Ferria wrote:You do understand that there are no international privacy laws, so CCP would only need to comply with laws from Iceland, the US, China, and the UK as these are the places they operate. Just because you access their service from somewhere else does not force those laws on them. It does if they offer the service there and wish to continue doing so, also if they operate in the UK they have to abide by the EU as well, in all EU states. Now you know... Now you know........ Greetings capsuleer Maes, It is useful to have a leg before you try standing. As capsuleer Haphorn has requested; can you please cite the case you were referring to earlier for those of us curious in the facts - rather than random, inventive lies? Regards, Shian Yang
Greetings, Yeah, they are all lies, to think a person signs a contract by clicking a button and not reading it and that contract can contain anything including that you just sold them your grandmother, to think you don't have to follow any laws in the country you sell your product or offer your service in To think the UK is outside EU law and that CCP is only liable in Iceland. To think there are no trade agreements and laws between countries, yep, all lies, I must have attended a bad business school...
All lies.
Peace |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:13:00 -
[216] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote: It is not a legally binding contract by law, in the US last trial about that had the judge throw the case out. In the EU it has already been declared to violate existing law.
Welcome to the idiot club.
I also do not have to go to one of those places to sue them, I can sue them in any country they operate in as selling their products and services, that includes all of the EU, just FYI that's all!
Shrinkwrap EULA's aren't binding, but ones where you actively subscribe to a service certainly are.
Welcome to the idiot club, I made you some tea. |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:16:00 -
[217] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Greetings, Yeah, they are all lies, to think a person signs a contract by clicking a button and not reading it and that contract can contain anything including that you just sold them your grandmother, to think you don't have to follow any laws in the country you sell your product or offer your service in To think the UK is outside EU law and that CCP is only liable in Iceland. To think there are no trade agreements and laws between countries, yep, all lies, I must have attended a bad business school...
CCP is only legally liable in the countries they have a corporate presence in. (Including the EU through the UK). Certainly you can try to bring a suit against them in other countries, but what happens when you win?
|
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:29:00 -
[218] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Nope, I wont, I welcome you to ignore me forever because I enjoy watching dumb business students graduate and if lucky work as my bank teller looking jelly when they see my bank account.
Tell us about your kickboxing supermodel girlfriend :allears: |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:40:00 -
[219] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote: edit 2, let me explain, EULA and TOS is information, whatever is legal in the EULA and TOS informed you of the law, at best case scenario they can be a means to make sure you cannot deny knowing about existing laws. It is however not a contract, it is impossible to be a contract, it can't be a contract, EVER! Anything else in a TOS and EULA that is not in accordance with existing law for everything has no meaning.
Tell us what makes it not a contract.
Ed: That is, which particular aspect of this bilateral agreement makes it not lawful but is also not covered under the severance clause. |
CatreX Nolen
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:42:00 -
[220] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Fannie Maes wrote: edit 2, let me explain, EULA and TOS is information, whatever is legal in the EULA and TOS informed you of the law, at best case scenario they can be a means to make sure you cannot deny knowing about existing laws. It is however not a contract, it is impossible to be a contract, it can't be a contract, EVER! Anything else in a TOS and EULA that is not in accordance with existing law for everything has no meaning.
Tell us what makes it not a contract.
I'm also curious how it's not a contract.
|
|
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 12:24:00 -
[221] - Quote
It is interesting to see that Capsuleer Fannie Maes, whose name is a funny reference to a mortgage insurance company that facilitated the crash of the US housing market - Fannie Mae, has not only failed to produce the case he referenced that would have clearly explained how a EULA/TOS was not considered a legally binding contract but has also willingly refused to produce said case.
Therefore, I will ignore Capsuleer Fannie Maes and so should everyone else.
Oh, and by the way. If someone does try to sue CCP over this eve-mail incident, then this will qualify as a civil trial and the jurisdiction and venue of the civil trial, according to US laws, will depend specifically as to where the defendant lives or operates (not where it's headquartered). Therefore, the court that has jurisdiction over this theoretical case would be a civil court and venue located in Atlanta in George closest to where CCP's Atlanta office is operating. The trial would not be in California as Capsuleer Fannie Maes seems to imply.
Fannie, I suggest you read a ******* book regarding law for once. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Niko Takahashi
United Starbase Systems
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:10:00 -
[222] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Aren't alliance mails those things sent to dozens of anonymous strangers at the same time?
"You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Looks like you agreed already
Clicking a button in an Eula does not legally mean anything. Do not know about the USA but under my countries law whatever electronic form to be legally enforceable it has to have my registered ectronic signature attached.
Meaning you can click away and agree to whatever but in the end of the day they have totally nothing.
However the company as a physicall entity has to fulfill the legal requirements and amount of protective eula blabber is going to change that.
You can enforce it normally.
Tldr Clicking eula agree button means crap and you can not create contract between two parties that is in conflict with the legislation. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:24:00 -
[223] - Quote
Niko Takahashi wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Aren't alliance mails those things sent to dozens of anonymous strangers at the same time?
"You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Looks like you agreed already Clicking a button in an Eula does not legally mean anything. Do not know about the USA but under my countries law whatever electronic form to be legally enforceable it has to have my registered ectronic signature attached. Meaning you can click away and agree to whatever but in the end of the day they have totally nothing. However the company as a physicall entity has to fulfill the legal requirements and amount of protective eula blabber is going to change that. You can enforce it normally. Tldr Clicking eula agree button means crap and you can not create contract between two parties that is in conflict with the legislation.
Which Country is that? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Alnaria Fizolna
Hampton Kardin Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:25:00 -
[224] - Quote
If the EULA contains parts not permitted in your country... ... what're you doing accepting it anyway? |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:32:00 -
[225] - Quote
Niko Takahashi wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Aren't alliance mails those things sent to dozens of anonymous strangers at the same time?
"You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms."
Looks like you agreed already Clicking a button in an Eula does not legally mean anything. Do not know about the USA but under my countries law whatever electronic form to be legally enforceable it has to have my registered ectronic signature attached. Meaning you can click away and agree to whatever but in the end of the day they have totally nothing. However the company as a physicall entity has to fulfill the legal requirements and amount of protective eula blabber is going to change that. You can enforce it normally. Tldr Clicking eula agree button means crap and you can not create contract between two parties that is in conflict with the legislation.
I don't think you are correct. Unless you live in some 3rd world country with odd law or no law at all. Nearly every country out there has special laws for software and handling of it. And there is usually written that EULA is binding article (unless it breaks any other law in which case it is void and you cant use that particular product). For general forms, contracts (non software oriented) the electronic signature might be required though. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:56:00 -
[226] - Quote
One of the misunderstandings about EULAs and TOS's is that some people believe that such agreements are never legally binding. But what is ignored is how they might be considered NOT legally binding and therefore void or null.
It is legally binding if and when there are the following.
1. Offer 2. Acceptance 3. Consideration 4. Legality
Please note that by legality it doesn't mean whether or not a contract is acceptable in general but whether the provisions or goal(s) stated on the contract are allowed in the state or country they are occurring in. For example: CCP stated in the EULA that there are no expectations of privacy in the eve-mail system and have stated that all communications between two or more players through such a system is not private at all. This is mainly because of its in-game nature and purpose. If you post personally identifiable information through such a medium such as you real-life medical records or your real-life bank account information, then it is the fault of the end-user for transmitting such data through a highly insecure channel.
Now, let's change this up a bit and say that CCP wants to add a provision that states that all players are subject to have their homes broken into and have their parents/kids taken in for experimentation to become a humancentipad for Apple. At that point, the EULA/TOS because void because that provision violates the law. The same can be said if the contract involved illegal drugs as part of the transaction and so on.
If the provisions of the contract don't violate any laws and that considerations are met and that an offer is made and the offer is accepted, then contract is valid and enforceable. The contract doesn't even have to be in some kind of special paper. Contracts can be electronic but have to be conspicuous, they can be written on a napkin at a dinner table in a restaurant, or tattooed on your body. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
385
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 14:00:00 -
[227] - Quote
This is a horrible thread and you are all horrible people. There is no facepalm big enough to describe all this. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 14:01:00 -
[228] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:This is a horrible thread and you are all horrible people. There is no facepalm big enough to describe all this.
Sorry, facepalms are not mentioned on the contract. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Sephira Galamore
Nemesis Holdings Corp Luna Sanguinem
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 14:34:00 -
[229] - Quote
Alright, while I first thought "WTH?", after some thinking , I fear the OP does have a bit of point, depending in which country an offender / offended person lives.
Germany for example (oh, and ofc, IANAL):
1. Parts of TOS / an EULA that contradict current law or are 'under current cirumstances, surprising' are void (BGB -º305 ff.). Consequence of this is, that CCP does not the rights on your written communication, the same way Facebook doesn't. If you post something pubicly on FB you expect everyone to see it, just like you expect everyone to see your character bio. If you sent someone (or a group of people) a message in FB, you expect only them to recieve it - same with EveMails.
2. Electronic communication directed towards an enclosed circle (=non-public) is within the private sphere and thus may not be publicly disclosed. (StGB -º202 / OLG K+¦ln 28 O 178/06) If you send an EveMail to distinct group of players, you expect the mail only to be recieved by those that are, at the time of the transmission, part of that group. This is NOT public communication, since at any given time there is a set amount of members in the group. Thus this mail is part of your private sphere, and if someone discloses this mail publicly, he violates your private sphere. (If he does that against your will, that is)
As you can see, it's not as simple as it might look on first glance.
Of course the OPs claim that CCP would be liable in this is complete nonsense. That would be like.. a mail provider beeing liable for someone reading his mails via POP3 and automatically posting them on your public webspace. :shakes head:
The person that publishs the mail is responsible, and since we are talking about API usage, it's the person that created the API key and thus made public access possible. Again, this all only has relevance if the sender of a mail actually demands de-publication, compensation whatsnot and succeeds with that. (... in Germany, or whatever country has similar laws)
(Correct me if I was wrong somewhere.) |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 14:48:00 -
[230] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Alright, while I first thought "WTH?", after some thinking , I fear the OP does have a bit of point, depending in which country an offender / offended person lives.
Germany for example (oh, and ofc, IANAL):
1. Parts of TOS / an EULA that contradict current law or are 'under current cirumstances, surprising' are void (BGB -º305 ff.). Consequence of this is, that CCP does not the rights on your written communication, the same way Facebook doesn't. If you post something pubicly on FB you expect everyone to see it, just like you expect everyone to see your character bio. If you sent someone (or a group of people) a message in FB, you expect only them to recieve it - same with EveMails.
2. Electronic communication directed towards an enclosed circle (=non-public) is within the private sphere and thus may not be publicly disclosed. (StGB -º202 / OLG K+¦ln 28 O 178/06) If you send an EveMail to distinct group of players, you expect the mail only to be recieved by those that are, at the time of the transmission, part of that group. This is NOT public communication, since at any given time there is a set amount of members in the group. Thus this mail is part of your private sphere, and if someone discloses this mail publicly, he violates your private sphere. (If he does that against your will, that is)
As you can see, it's not as simple as it might look on first glance.
Of course the OPs claim that CCP would be liable in this is complete nonsense.
The person that publishs the mail is responsible, and since we are talking about API usage, it's the person that created the API key and thus made public access possible. Again, this all only has relevance if the sender of a mail actually demands de-publication, compensation whatsnot and succeeds with that. (... in Germany, or whatever country has similar laws)
(Correct me if I was wrong somewhere.)
Correct. As stated before, the provisions of the contract have to be legal in the country in which it was accepted. Otherwise, it is void. However, we are only talking about Germany here. Laws differ in every country.
PS:
In regards to the post I made about the page in which the case is mentioned on the book I cited, it turned out that the case is not mentioned. The quotes I posted on page 11 of the thread were copied from the powerpoint. Apparently, the case is not listed in the book and was only provided by my instructor as a reference (the page number was an accident), but I did find the case listed here:
http://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/contracts/contracts-keyed-to-murphy/the-bargain-relationship/specht-v-netscape-communications-corporation/
Another posted by Harvard.
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/stjohns/Specht_v_Netscape.pdf Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
|
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 15:04:00 -
[231] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Now, let's change this up a bit and say that CCP wants to add a provision that states that all players are subject to have their homes broken into and have their parents/kids taken in for experimentation to become a humancentipad for Apple. At that point, the EULA/TOS because void because that provision violates the law. The same can be said if the contract involved illegal drugs as part of the transaction and so on.
If the provisions of the contract don't violate any laws and that considerations are met and that an offer is made and the offer is accepted, then contract is valid and enforceable. The contract doesn't even have to be in some kind of special paper. Contracts can be electronic but have to be conspicuous, they can be written on a napkin at a dinner table in a restaurant, or tattooed on your body.
Actually the severance clause of the contract would mean that only the parts that are illegal are excluded, the remainder of the contract remains in effect. (Unless of course a judge decides to throw the entire contract out, but that would only occur in situations where so much has been excluded that it makes no sense for the rest to be in effect.) |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 15:08:00 -
[232] - Quote
Discussing law in a thread like these is difficult and a bit poinless.. Every nation has its own laws. Germany has very strict privacy laws where the USA seems to have no privacy laws at all
My point is, is that I think there might me some national laws being broken. While CCP is not breaking the law themselves, they are facilitating this. This case is different from a mail provider as you have to have the account login to retrieve mails which will also give total control to that account. With the API you can only retrieve information and is made with the intention to share with others. |
Ronja Mistysdottir
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 15:25:00 -
[233] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Discussing law in a thread like these is difficult and a bit poinless.. Every nation has its own laws. Germany has very strict privacy laws where the USA seems to have no privacy laws at all My point is, is that I think there might me some national laws being broken. While CCP is not breaking the law themselves, they are facilitating this. This case is different from a mail provider as you have to have the account login to retrieve mails which will also give total control to that account. With the API you can only retrieve information and is made with the intention to share with others.
After Perkone Corp set me at a negative standing after just a few POD kills of your corp members, I have been in a state of war with you. If / when I see you in space, I WILL try to kill you.
To grab your frozen corpse, I will engage in any activity in-game, on forums, via related gaming sites to locate and kill you.
So, hunting and killing, threatening to kill ... how many Real Life laws did that break?.. Guess what, I could not care less, because this is in a game, and you should go bio-mass yourself. |
Sephira Galamore
Nemesis Holdings Corp Luna Sanguinem
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:01:00 -
[234] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:[...] While CCP is not breaking the law themselves, they are facilitating this. This case is different from a mail provider as you have to have the account login to retrieve mails which will also give total control to that account. With the API you can only retrieve information and is made with the intention to share with others.
Well, slightly different example then.. let's say I share my personal Google Calendar with my family, for that I gave them the private URL to the calendar. When someone sends me a mail now that contains an appointment, this will be visible on my calendar. This is an option provided by the calendar and thus intended by Google. Now is Google to blame, when someone else gets hold of my private calendar URL, publishes the calendar on his public website and thus makes all appointment mails publicly available? |
Geil Ding
Perkone Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:20:00 -
[235] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Geil Ding wrote:[...] While CCP is not breaking the law themselves, they are facilitating this. This case is different from a mail provider as you have to have the account login to retrieve mails which will also give total control to that account. With the API you can only retrieve information and is made with the intention to share with others. Well, slightly different example then.. let's say I share my personal Google Calendar with my family, for that I gave them the private URL to the calendar. When someone sends me a mail now that contains an appointment, this will be visible on my calendar. This is an option provided by the calendar and thus intended by Google. Now is Google to blame, when someone else gets hold of my private calendar URL, publishes the calendar on his public website and thus makes all appointment mails publicly available?
The URL is not private if it is accessible by everybody. At best it is a hidden URL. Some very known Torrent sites (won't post the names) are also found guilty (even with their base of operations outside the country) by facilitating breaking the law, yet they do not post the information themselves. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:25:00 -
[236] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Geil Ding wrote:[...] While CCP is not breaking the law themselves, they are facilitating this. This case is different from a mail provider as you have to have the account login to retrieve mails which will also give total control to that account. With the API you can only retrieve information and is made with the intention to share with others. Well, slightly different example then.. let's say I share my personal Google Calendar with my family, for that I gave them the private URL to the calendar. When someone sends me a mail now that contains an appointment, this will be visible on my calendar. This is an option provided by the calendar and thus intended by Google. Now is Google to blame, when someone else gets hold of my private calendar URL, publishes the calendar on his public website and thus makes all appointment mails publicly available?
I can see plenty of similarities there. In either case, whether its regarding a calendar URL or an eve API, the business is not to blame for the mishandling of the link in question and the information provided. However, both are designed to be disabled by the original author of the URL or API at any time as intended by Google and CCP Games.
But it is still murky when it comes to various laws around the world. Even if the incident occurred in the US, the laws are further governed by the state laws in addition to the federal laws. The laws of each country are so intricate and complex that it is no wonder that being a lawyer is such a very popular profession. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
215
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:26:00 -
[237] - Quote
lol
Your business education is terrible Henry. Would you be so kind as to tell us the name of your school? |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:39:00 -
[238] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:lol
Your business education is terrible Henry. Would you be so kind as to tell us the name of your school?
Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ. (yes, they teach business law), but it's not relevant to this discussion.
My sources are usually gathered from websites of law schools such as Harvard University and books I have run into such as Roger LeRoy Miller's Fundamentals of Business Law: Summarized Cases 9th Edition, which I referenced earlier. I believe this is the current edition.
No, my business education is not terrible. I have had to do accounting work with various businesses and have learned quite a lot about contracts (implied, expressed, or even quasi) in the past.
At least I have done my research into the matter of EULA's and TOS's and have provided my sources to back them up. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 18:05:00 -
[239] - Quote
PS:
Fannie, I'm gonna be polite and give you one more chance to please reference the case that negatively affected an End-User License Agreement in a trial.
Please? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
215
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 18:12:00 -
[240] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:PS:
Fannie, I'm gonna be polite and give you one more chance to please reference the case that negatively affected an End-User License Agreement in a trial.
Please?
No thank you As I stated previously, I prefer you live in ignorance and keep making an ass of yourself. Thanks for naming your school, I am sure it is school with excellent standards providing your reading material at harvard university website, I am sure your class starts with Wiki page on EULA & TOS than moves on to google docs.
Have a good day and I suggest you always read EULA and TOS agreements in the future, even for a Firefox utility, I would hate to see you accidentally sell your soul to to a Nigerian prince.
|
|
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 18:20:00 -
[241] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:PS:
Fannie, I'm gonna be polite and give you one more chance to please reference the case that negatively affected an End-User License Agreement in a trial.
Please? No thank you As I stated previously, I prefer you live in ignorance and keep making an ass of yourself. Thanks for naming your school, I am sure it is school with excellent standards providing your reading material at harvard university website, I am sure your class starts with Wiki page on EULA & TOS than moves on to google docs. Have a good day and I suggest you always read EULA and TOS agreements in the future, even for a Firefox utility, I would hate to see you accidentally sell your soul to to a Nigerian prince.
LOL
Interesting. Very interesting.
You trolled me long enough, I'll give you that. Now have fun with your self-indulgence.
===Obligatory EDIT===
You need a better institution as well. The Science and Trade Institute of the Caldari State is not helping you with your argument, but I can clearly see now that it's a great place to learn to be a troll. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
350
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 18:22:00 -
[242] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:PS:
Fannie, I'm gonna be polite and give you one more chance to please reference the case that negatively affected an End-User License Agreement in a trial.
Please? No thank you As I stated previously, I prefer you live in ignorance and keep making an ass of yourself. Thanks for naming your school, I am sure it is school with excellent standards providing your reading material at harvard university website, I am sure your class starts with Wiki page on EULA & TOS than moves on to google docs. Have a good day and I suggest you always read EULA and TOS agreements in the future, even for a Firefox utility, I would hate to see you accidentally sell your soul to to a Nigerian prince. LOL Interesting. Very interesting. You trolled me long enough, I'll give you that. Now have fun with your self-indulgence.
This whole thread is a bad thread. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 18:24:00 -
[243] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:PS:
Fannie, I'm gonna be polite and give you one more chance to please reference the case that negatively affected an End-User License Agreement in a trial.
Please? No thank you As I stated previously, I prefer you live in ignorance and keep making an ass of yourself. Thanks for naming your school, I am sure it is school with excellent standards providing your reading material at harvard university website, I am sure your class starts with Wiki page on EULA & TOS than moves on to google docs. Have a good day and I suggest you always read EULA and TOS agreements in the future, even for a Firefox utility, I would hate to see you accidentally sell your soul to to a Nigerian prince. LOL Interesting. Very interesting. You trolled me long enough, I'll give you that. Now have fun with your self-indulgence. This whole thread is a bad thread.
Agreed. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Hauling Hal
The Black Ops
57
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 19:58:00 -
[244] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
Dear everyone and the OP missing the point,
An in-game character is not resident of any country on this planet, so their personal mails are not covered under the jurisdiction of any of Earth's legisation.
tl/dr I too think that it's a disgrace that JRR Tolkien publicly published conversations between Frodo and Gandalf. |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 20:50:00 -
[245] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:As soon as I saw your name I already decided to discard any comments from you as being totally irrelevant.
|
Sephira Galamore
Nemesis Holdings Corp Luna Sanguinem
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 20:55:00 -
[246] - Quote
Hauling Hal wrote: Dear everyone and the OP missing the point,
An in-game character is not resident of any country on this planet, so their personal mails are not covered under the jurisdiction of any of Earth's legisation.
tl/dr I too think that it's a disgrace that JRR Tolkien publicly published conversations between Frodo and Gandalf.
Is that so? Did the character write this all by himself? Wow, I must train my character to do some writing, too. Maybe some nice book will come out of it and then I can steal it from him, he certainly won't complain. And if he does, haha, I'll just biomass him. |
Mario Rin
Unrepentant Gaming The Volition Cult
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:03:00 -
[247] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:Funny how dumb people can really be, or try to undermine the words being said by attacking the person and not the arguments. I am pretty sure everybody would burn CCP if they would make every mail public send ingame. Quote:Are you complete moron ? No it can not. API is for character not for corp. If player left, API useless for spying. I think u misread whay I said.. most corp and/or alliance require the player to send their API before they can join. If a player forgets to delete the key after he left the corp/alliance it can still be used by the former corp/alliance. Often people are not aware of this and even reuse the same key for the next corp/alliance they join. Again, I do not mind that the mails can be accessed through the API but what I do mind that the sender has no control over his mail. There should be an option if the sended mail is available through the API.
Consider postal mail, you send a physical letter to someone, you have no control over how they duplicate, divulge, and distribute copies of that letter. Why do you believe that a game communication should be held to different standards than a physical communication?
|
Sephira Galamore
Nemesis Holdings Corp Luna Sanguinem
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:07:00 -
[248] - Quote
Mario Rin wrote:Consider postal mail, you send a physical letter to someone, you have no control over how they duplicate, divulge, and distribute copies of that letter. Why do you believe that a game communication should be held to different standards than a physical communication? Bad example. Making a private letter public is illegal in some countries, at least in Germany it is. While it is true that you don't have control over it, you can act against it once you are aware of it. |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:16:00 -
[249] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Mario Rin wrote:Consider postal mail, you send a physical letter to someone, you have no control over how they duplicate, divulge, and distribute copies of that letter. Why do you believe that a game communication should be held to different standards than a physical communication? Bad example. Making a private letter public is illegal in some countries, at least in Germany it is. While it is true that you don't have control over it, you can act against it once you are aware of it.
The German law in this case it's highly dependant on the content of the mail. Don't apply laws that you don't understand to this. |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
125
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:22:00 -
[250] - Quote
I really don't care anymore about eve skunk. I used to think it affected me, but an informed alliance can make better alliance mails that do not give out juicy intel. The less-informed, less forum-warrior alliances will be the ones who do not know about this and will suffer due to it.
yeah, my alliance is in that site but I am out of fucks to give. |
|
Loose End
The Big Bambu
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 22:21:00 -
[251] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. This is true... but its a good thing that Eve is just a game (you know its just a game right?...right?) and not bound by international laws... I will finish with this appropriate ASCII picture: *snip* - ASCII art - ISD LoneLynx
If a country has a law regarding internet games, site content or marketing then CCP or any game company must abide by those laws or face being banned from selling that product in that country. This includes privacy laws. I do not believe that IGMs share the same status as emails however and are not protected anywhere. Just like the photos of the ex on photobucket that you thought were unobtainable by others...once up on the net...they are public domain unless properly and lawfully protected.
|
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 03:40:00 -
[252] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Mario Rin wrote:Consider postal mail, you send a physical letter to someone, you have no control over how they duplicate, divulge, and distribute copies of that letter. Why do you believe that a game communication should be held to different standards than a physical communication? Bad example. Making a private letter public is illegal in some countries, at least in Germany it is. While it is true that you don't have control over it, you can act against it once you are aware of it.
I'm not sure CCP even has a German office so unless there is some kind of EU wizardry that forces the UK to follow German laws, you are completely out of luck there. |
Niko Takahashi
United Starbase Systems
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 14:42:00 -
[253] - Quote
Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:Mario Rin wrote:Consider postal mail, you send a physical letter to someone, you have no control over how they duplicate, divulge, and distribute copies of that letter. Why do you believe that a game communication should be held to different standards than a physical communication? Bad example. Making a private letter public is illegal in some countries, at least in Germany it is. While it is true that you don't have control over it, you can act against it once you are aware of it. I'm not sure CCP even has a German office so unless there is some kind of EU wizardry that forces the UK to follow German laws, you are completely out of luck there.
Actually you already do follow some EU laws like consumer protection laws for example. So yes there is some EU magic in place but not for everything of course the OP is missing one thing.
In order for the privacy law to apply I think not really sure it has to be written under his real name or such but Bach this thread is bigger then I have expected in my wildest dreams.
|
Mario Rin
Unrepentant Gaming The Volition Cult
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 17:27:00 -
[254] - Quote
Niko Takahashi wrote:Doctor Ungabungas wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:Mario Rin wrote:Consider postal mail, you send a physical letter to someone, you have no control over how they duplicate, divulge, and distribute copies of that letter. Why do you believe that a game communication should be held to different standards than a physical communication? Bad example. Making a private letter public is illegal in some countries, at least in Germany it is. While it is true that you don't have control over it, you can act against it once you are aware of it. I'm not sure CCP even has a German office so unless there is some kind of EU wizardry that forces the UK to follow German laws, you are completely out of luck there. Actually you already do follow some EU laws like consumer protection laws for example. So yes there is some EU magic in place but not for everything of course the OP is missing one thing. In order for the privacy law to apply I think not really sure it has to be written under his real name or such but Bach this thread is bigger then I have expected in my wildest dreams.
I concede that in some jurisdictions the duplication, distribution, or divulging of the physical mail would violate the law. However, it would be the recipient that would be liable for the breach of privacy, not the copier manufacturer, the postal service, the person who sold the sender the stamps, or anyone who recieved a duplicate of that mail.
Only the recipient would be responsible, no other party or mechanism.
The recipient could then be sued in civil court. However, there would need to be damages in order to make a lawsuit feasible, unless you're only sueing for an injunction to prevent him doing it in the future. It'd make more sense just to avoid sending them any more letters that you didn't want distributed.
If you can identify the leak, use it to spread false intel. Send an alliance mail about a mining op, and create a mailing list of the other alliance members telling them to bring a standing fleet instead. Gank the Gankers.
|
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
241
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 18:21:00 -
[255] - Quote
I will sue the op for reading my post. |
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
241
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 18:22:00 -
[256] - Quote
It is private. |
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
241
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 18:22:00 -
[257] - Quote
So getout. |
Hauling Hal
The Black Ops
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 21:00:00 -
[258] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Hauling Hal wrote: Dear everyone and the OP missing the point,
An in-game character is not resident of any country on this planet, so their personal mails are not covered under the jurisdiction of any of Earth's legisation.
tl/dr I too think that it's a disgrace that JRR Tolkien publicly published conversations between Frodo and Gandalf.
Is that so? Did the character write this all by himself? Wow, I must train my character to do some writing, too. Maybe some nice book will come out of it and then I can steal it from him, he certainly won't complain. And if he does, haha, I'll just biomass him.
The mail is owned by CCP, as is everything generated within the game. Next time I suggest that you read the EULA before you try to sound intelligent. |
MotherMoon
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
612
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 21:05:00 -
[259] - Quote
Is this thread really still alive? come on guys let it die |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 00:39:00 -
[260] - Quote
I refuse. It's hilarious watching people without legs hop around trying to slap each other. |
|
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
246
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 00:53:00 -
[261] - Quote
If I choose to give out my API to the website so that everyone can read mails sent to me then that is my right.
There is NO promise of confidentiality on MY part. I signed nothing stating I will not share what is given to me by others.
In other words no laws are broken. Your argument will not hold up in any countries court.
In fact you would have to go after the API owner first not the web site. And guess what there is no NON-disclosure clause. And good luck trying to prove an implied non-disclosure agreement. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
94
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 01:48:00 -
[262] - Quote
If your a REAL alliance you should already have several thousand dollars invested in out of game communication servers, if you can't pay you can't play simple as that.
Why would CCP hurt the IT firms who profit off communication services by fixing a security issue with their API? |
Doctor Ungabungas
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
223
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 02:30:00 -
[263] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:If your a REAL alliance you should already have several thousand dollars invested in out of game communication servers, if you can't pay you can't play simple as that.
Why would CCP hurt the IT firms who profit off communication services by fixing a security issue with their API?
What security issue? And what do you propose they do to fix it?
Having alliance mails in the API is a great feature and it allows for things like clients which sit in your system tray which ding when you get an alliance mail (that might say something like LOG IN NOW OUR SPACE IS BURNING BECAUSE SOMEONE FORGOT TO PAY A SOV BILL).
There's nothing inappropriate or broken about the implementation. It's just that some alliances can't keep their member API keys in their pants.
[PS: I'm sure you've noticed that several thousand dollars worth of IT hardware doesn't stop goonswarm announcements being posted on Kugu within minutes, when is CCP going to fix this bug with it's players. A power drill and a coat hanger (in game naturally) might stop them leaking our precious info.] |
Iamien
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
193
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 15:14:00 -
[264] - Quote
I agree with this service and/or product. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 15:22:00 -
[265] - Quote
And it took you 2 months to make that decision? |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 15:29:00 -
[266] - Quote
I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail? |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 15:38:00 -
[267] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail?
Read the 2 month old 14 page thread and you will see that was already brought up. No need to repeat the cycles. |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 15:43:00 -
[268] - Quote
Iamien wrote:I agree with this service and/or product. Dude, second necro thread now? What's wrong with you? |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:00:00 -
[269] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail? Read the 2 month old 14 page thread and you will see that was already brought up. No need to repeat the cycles.
Show me in the bear... I mean, the thread, where uu-encode was mentioned.
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:06:00 -
[270] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail? Read the 2 month old 14 page thread and you will see that was already brought up. No need to repeat the cycles. Show me in the bear... I mean, the thread, where uu-encode was mentioned.
Is your left mouse button broken? |
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Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:11:00 -
[271] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail? Read the 2 month old 14 page thread and you will see that was already brought up. No need to repeat the cycles. Show me in the bear... I mean, the thread, where uu-encode was mentioned. Is your left mouse button broken?
link uu-encode or didn't happened.
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:17:00 -
[272] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:I'm not sure about who owns the content of an evemail... it can get shady.
What if a copyrighted material gets uu-encoded and sent through alliance mail? Read the 2 month old 14 page thread and you will see that was already brought up. No need to repeat the cycles. Show me in the bear... I mean, the thread, where uu-encode was mentioned. Is your left mouse button broken? link uu-encode or didn't happened.
You are putting far too much effort into all that typing when it only takes a couple of muscles to click on page 2 or 3 and read that if you are sending something, anything, private through a unsecured email system then you deserve what comes to you. |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:29:00 -
[273] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
You are putting far too much effort into all that typing when it only takes a couple of muscles to click on page 2 or 3 and read that if you are sending something, anything, private through a unsecured email system then you deserve what comes to you.
Sir... again.. there's no mention of uu-encode in neither page 2 or page 3. However, my point is not about the sender "deserving" to be skunked. It's about planting copyrighted material on alliance email on purpose, hoping it will get skunked, then let RIAA/MPAA/whatever take the skunk down.
Of course, the planter could get in trouble as well... consider it a suicide gank.
PS: I'm sure alt.* newsgroups have something better than uuencode by now... I haven't been there in ages.
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:40:00 -
[274] - Quote
sigh...whatever. You are talking about the same subject in a different dress. But hey, if you wanna flash your ass at the general public and then blame them for taking pictures then be my guest.
Also, I like your idea of burning an entire forest to remove one diseased tree. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2158
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:49:00 -
[275] - Quote
If you put it in an email you are subject to inteception by any number of means. Confidential documents should never be sent via email unless it is only going through a secured, on site server (and even then there are no promises).
Sending confidential information via a messaging service THAT IS PART OF A PUBLIC ONLINE GAME is not considered a secure or private method by anyone's definition. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:51:00 -
[276] - Quote
Thank you. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
217
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 17:01:00 -
[277] - Quote
If you wish to be pedantic about this then in virtually all of the English speaking world * then as soon as you send a letter/send an email/make a post then the copyright for that letter/email/post now resides with the recipient.
tl;dr - send a private communication to a person/entity then the copyright of that communication belongs to them.
*mentioned because of copyright laws, which are broadly consistent for text |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1630
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 17:24:00 -
[278] - Quote
Calling all internet lawyers. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
136
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 01:12:00 -
[279] - Quote
Sometimes I forget that this game is taken so seriously by others, that they are perfectly willing to try to involved it with international law. Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
164
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 02:14:00 -
[280] - Quote
InternetSpaceship wrote:Sometimes I forget that this game is taken so seriously by others, that they are perfectly willing to try to involved it with international law.
That kind of reminds me of the one that can not be mentioned... yeah it could get nasty in an international way.
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Irya Boone
Escadron leader La League des mondes libres
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 02:33:00 -
[281] - Quote
Internet Lawyers are best lawyers of the universe(s) ... really |
Equus
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:03:00 -
[282] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:You know, the whole problem is not about game related mails made public but personal information about stuff like health. The API does not filter those out. A spy would never copy/paste personal information to a public website as it holds no "ingame value" to be used.
Let me ask this: If I would post links to illegal content, like movies, and eveskunk automatic make them public. Who would be wrong? Eveskunk for making links to illegal content public? CCP for helping eveskunk retreiving the mails? The person sharing the API? Or the person sending a personal mail to his/her friends?
I have not read all of this thread, I had to stop here, and honestly, just stop, you are wrong, completely wrong. I shall now give you a real example, hmmm, I wonder if there is another large company or two out there that allow users to hand out verification codes so that those sites can garner information... I don't know, maybe a little site called Facebook...
You see, when you link your Facebook account to a webpage, or an app, or anything of the third party can do whatever they want with your information, that is why Facebook warns you and says something along the lines of: This app/page waill have access to: your contacts, your pictures, yadda, yadda. Now, if you don't read said sites privacy policy, they can pretty much do whatever they like with their scraped information. You have no legal recourse, you agreed to make it available, same thing here, YOU make your mails available through your api not CCP. If you honestly think you have legel precident sue a company like Facebook, they have much deeper pockets... and yes Facebook has had it's wrist slapped for privacy, but that usually stemmed from not making privacy options available and/or readily visible. You cannot sue Facebook because you gave out personal information. You signed away your privacy in the EULA.
Now, for the dumbest argument, "Someone can copy and paste my eve mail!!!!", seriously? So shall we sue google too? An ex copy and pasted an email I sent to somewhere else, Google facilitated her, I am sueing!!!!
Seriously, please think a little, no argument you have made holds any water, if you eve mail, email, snail mail, pass me a note, whatever, if you do not have it from me explicitly and in writing that I will maintain any privacy, you will pretty much be S.O.L. The absolute most you can do is if it goes somewhere public you can ask for it to be taken down. Unless you are hacked and your private information is quite literally stolen, you have nothing.
Please, stop giving developers a bad name, I would like to think the majority of us can use our heads.
I hope I covered everything clear enough, if not I will be happy to try and clarify. |
MadMuppet
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
494
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:18:00 -
[283] - Quote
http://enigmaco.de/enigma/enigma.swf
If it is important, it should be encoded and only those you trust should have the wire positions, wheel numbers and order, and three letter start codes. They should change daily or at least weekly. For special direct communications a dedicated few should have a second code book. Also false messages should be coded and know for speed to disrupt operations.
TLDR: Use an Enigma Machine, Copy paste makes this all happen very fast. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Y'nit Gidrine
Gold Horizons Industrial
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 03:48:00 -
[284] - Quote
You know, if only there were some sort of encryption scheme which was pretty good at protecting your privacy, then we wouldn't be having this problem. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
370
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 04:15:00 -
[285] - Quote
I am a space lawyer. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 04:32:00 -
[286] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:http://enigmaco.de/enigma/enigma.swf
If it is important, it should be encoded and only those you trust should have the wire positions, wheel numbers and order, and three letter start codes. They should change daily or at least weekly. For special direct communications a dedicated few should have a second code book. Also false messages should be coded and know for speed to disrupt operations.
TLDR: Use an Enigma Machine, Copy paste makes this all happen very fast.
Hum... this is interesting. The decoding mechanism could be expanded to have multiple decryption strings. Each decryption string could have hard-coded decryption flaws (like capitalize every 40th letter). Different decryption strings could be given to different corps/members. And when the message comes out on skunk, you can search for which flaw it had, thus determining the decryption key used, thus finding out the corp/member that leaked it.
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Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp
120
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:04:00 -
[287] - Quote
Spymaster Bates wrote:Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it. Hi, I'd like to address something important here. The API's here aren't farmed or stolen, they are from active agents or API's given consentually. If you are mad about your alliance being infiltrated then have better recruitment standards.
but how will the Spies infiltrate if people were not lazy? |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:13:00 -
[288] - Quote
Heres an idea, don't use alliance mail for sensitive information you don't want spies to know. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1174
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:52:00 -
[289] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:Heres an idea, don't use alliance mail for sensitive information you don't want spies to know. Heck, most nullsec groups use out-of-game comms.
Spies still get in of course. If a line member is going to know something, so will a spy. *shrug*
The best spies record your comms and then leak it after every welp, like clockwork. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:01:00 -
[290] - Quote
No.
The APIs are provided voluntarily so there's no theft or wiretapping or unauthorized access.
The corp/alliance mails do not have an expectation of privacy.
Even 1 to 1 EVEMails do not have a legal expectation of privacy because CCP reserves the right to read them in their ToS or EULA o somewhere I'm too lazy to go look up.
People bring this **** up every once in a while, but it's all bullshit. |
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dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:05:00 -
[291] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote: ... but this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact ...
Many is relative term, but in most countries public disclosure of emails is legal, then you are the receiving or sending party. In doing so you may be subject to various laws, e.g. breaking non disclosure agreements, publishing trade secrets, violating client confidentiality, etc.
Even if you live in a country where it's illegal, it can never be CCP who breaks the law. The person responsible for posting the email content, is the person breaking the law. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:16:00 -
[292] - Quote
just don't use CCP-provided means of communications (in-game mails/chats) but roll your own solution (forums + IRC/Jabber).
Make your members sign a NDA and submit proof of identity (there are services that will weed out the more obvious forgeries for you) before they get access.
(While you are sorting out all the legal stuff - trademark your alliance name/logo, incorporate the alliance and run your website/services from a corporate account to prevent hijacking by some disgruntled member and make any alliance members that might create content for you - websites, propaganda, ... - sign over copyright to the alliance or at least grant the alliance an exclusive & perpetual license to the content)
You should watertag sensitive forum posts (e.g. encode the userid of the person viewing the post by replacing characters with identically looking but different characters, Unicode is awesome) to identify leaks and keep permanent logs of who was logged into which service at which time.
problem solved.
spaceships are serious business. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
873
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:34:00 -
[293] - Quote
Geil Ding wrote:I think many have seen www.eveskunk.com by now. An API from a player is (ab)used to show alliance mails on a website for everybody to see. But this is against many national laws, privacy laws to be exact. The problem could correct itself if the sender of the mail has an option to exclude the mail from the API, but there is no such option. My question to CCP, will the API be changed and the alliance and corp mails removed from the API? Torrent site aren't downloading the content themselfs, but facilitate it.. So is CCP, not sending the mails to website like www.eveskunk.com but CCP does facilitate it.
Looks to me like someone wants to be a spai and never have his mailbox ccompromise his position. Anyone want to recruit this man? Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:38:00 -
[294] - Quote
Also if you have an issue with eveskunk try to contact their webhost (or ISP if self-hosted) before looking for legal recourse or CCP intervention.
Copyright & privacy arguments have been convincing enough to hosts (which generally don't like trouble of any sort) to make them shut down unauthorized mirrors of alliance forums in the past.
Eventually the website will of course end up with some host which doesn't respond to your demands/threats but until then you might be able to cause considerable trouble/costs to eveskunk. Always go for the weakest link first. |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:53:00 -
[295] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Also if you have an issue with eveskunk try to contact their webhost/ISP before looking for legal recourse or CCP intervention.
Contacting their internet service provider, or their hosting service, can be compared to contacting Microsoft and asking them to immediately recall every version of lookout, because email accounts can get hacked and therefore are illegal and dangerous. Most office/email/imaging software can be used to commit criminal acts involving forgery, this does not mean you can hold the companies producing the software countable for any crimes committed be the users of the software.
You can only persecute the one responsible for committing the crime. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:52:00 -
[296] - Quote
dexington wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:Also if you have an issue with eveskunk try to contact their webhost/ISP before looking for legal recourse or CCP intervention. Contacting their internet service provider, or their hosting service, can be compared to contacting Microsoft and asking them to immediately recall every version of lookout, because email accounts can get hacked and therefore are illegal and dangerous. Most office/email/imaging software can be used to commit criminal acts involving forgery, this does not mean you can hold the companies producing the software countable for any crimes committed be the users of the software. You can only persecute the one responsible for committing the crime. nope, if we are in "bad analogy"-land then I'd rather liken it to me contacting Microsoft asking them to lock your hotmail account because it is spreading malware or sending out spam.
Most hosting providers don't want you to do anything that might potentially be illegal using their services and cave in very quickly.
If you don't believe me that this works try http://files.pleaseignore.com/forumdumps/www.pandemic-legion.com/ |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:02:00 -
[297] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:If you don't believe me that this works try http://files.pleaseignore.com/forumdumps/www.pandemic-legion.com/Nobody is talking about persecuting or suing anyone - my suggestion is to write an angry letter (or better have an actual lawyer write the angry letter in your name) to the webhost/ISP before consider any real legal actions.
http://thepiratebay.se/legal/ |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:11:00 -
[298] - Quote
you could also have linked http://jdel.eu/pandemic/index.html
Vera Algaert wrote:Eventually the website will of course end up with some host which doesn't respond to your demands/threats but until then you might be able to cause considerable trouble/costs to eveskunk. Always go for the weakest link first. just because it doesn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it's useless to try - as I pointed out above even if you use a lawyer it's a very cheap and low-effort option compared to the alternatives. It would be stupid not to try it. |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:32:00 -
[299] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Eventually the website will of course end up with some host which doesn't respond to your demands/threats but until then you might be able to cause considerable trouble/costs to eveskunk. Always go for the weakest link first. just because it doesn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it's useless to try - as I pointed out above even if you use a lawyer it's a very cheap (typical price for a DMCA takedown request seems to be $200-300) and low-effort option compared to the alternatives. It would be stupid not to try it.[/quote]
a fool and his money are soon parted... |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:32:00 -
[300] - Quote
. |
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Jace Errata
Lawlz Brawlz
217
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 10:26:00 -
[301] - Quote
The hell does this even still exist for Stealth OST puns and blatant lies since 2009 Jace Errata on Twitter
One day they woke me up so I could live forever It's such a shame the same will never happen to you |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:55:00 -
[302] - Quote
Screeg's or whover, there is one suggestion I'd really like to ask...
Could the API Activity log please list WHICH API is being used for that connection?
For example I have 4 API keys, one each for the various services I use (such as evemon). I can see that my API is being accessed in the log, but I don't know which of those keys it is.
This would be great and let players know who's giving out the keys they use and allow us to maintain our own security. |
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