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Arderich
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Posted - 2004.08.22 14:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gaius Kador Edited by: Gaius Kador on 22/08/2004 04:10:25 There is always wisdom in my words. I posess True faith.
Hardly infallible, but clearly superior.
Edit: You are on my burning list by the by.
Gaius, you know pretty well Ardor rarely leaves his monastery and the biggest ship he can fly is an Impairor. So why do you post such stuff?
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Arderich
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Posted - 2004.08.22 14:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gaius Kador Edited by: Gaius Kador on 22/08/2004 04:10:25 There is always wisdom in my words. I posess True faith.
Hardly infallible, but clearly superior.
Edit: You are on my burning list by the by.
Gaius, you know pretty well Ardor rarely leaves his monastery and the biggest ship he can fly is an Impairor. So why do you post such stuff?
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:49:00 -
[33]
I would like to ask one question... should we put our trust in the scriptures or the morale reforms?
In the face of god our actions count. All those who should dare to oppose his will and the scriptures, be they commoner, holder, priest, heir or the Emperor himself will truely burn in the righteous fire of his fury.
History has taught us that only god does not err. Visit the city of god to see what happens to those who claim to be acting in the name of god while defying the scriptures. If Amarr leaves the narrow path presented to us the Empire will truely burn and fall into darkness. Only the truely faithfull will be spared by the wrath of god to rebuild the Empire of old and rule in his name.
Beware of false prophets and sheperds, brothers. Put your trust in the scriptures and the scriptures alone!
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:49:00 -
[34]
I would like to ask one question... should we put our trust in the scriptures or the morale reforms?
In the face of god our actions count. All those who should dare to oppose his will and the scriptures, be they commoner, holder, priest, heir or the Emperor himself will truely burn in the righteous fire of his fury.
History has taught us that only god does not err. Visit the city of god to see what happens to those who claim to be acting in the name of god while defying the scriptures. If Amarr leaves the narrow path presented to us the Empire will truely burn and fall into darkness. Only the truely faithfull will be spared by the wrath of god to rebuild the Empire of old and rule in his name.
Beware of false prophets and sheperds, brothers. Put your trust in the scriptures and the scriptures alone!
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bastables Edited by: Bastables on 22/08/2004 13:40:52 False information? The statement to avoid any form of contact with tetrimon was only two paragraphs above your own statement in the eve guardian. Yet fratricide was still an option until your misunderstanding was pointed out recently?
Bastables please read carefully before commenting.
The comment to avoid contact with Tetriom was added later - Our comment was provided before this crucial information was added.
That is what EVE Guardian are apologising about...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:31:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Bastables Edited by: Bastables on 22/08/2004 13:40:52 False information? The statement to avoid any form of contact with tetrimon was only two paragraphs above your own statement in the eve guardian. Yet fratricide was still an option until your misunderstanding was pointed out recently?
Bastables please read carefully before commenting.
The comment to avoid contact with Tetriom was added later - Our comment was provided before this crucial information was added.
That is what EVE Guardian are apologising about...
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Bastables
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Posted - 2004.08.23 09:54:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Bastables on 23/08/2004 09:56:36 More willful misreading? Eve Guardian was commenting on the inaccurate Fiend or Fool! Article by Haratu. The Imperial Chancellor statement printed by Eve Guardian issued on the 16th included: “Doriam II has yet to make a statement about this edict, and until such time all contact with the Cult is to be avoided." Has not been changed, added etc.
Your statment :"We are grateful for this clarification from the Imperial Household as using force against other Amarrians is not something we would undertake lightly. We see this statement as an offical mandate to take action against the heretical Tetrimon Cult who have been working to undermine the institutions of Empire..." was made on the same day 1 hr 40 mins after this unchanged statment.
For God, Empire, and Sarum. |
Bastables
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Posted - 2004.08.23 09:54:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Bastables on 23/08/2004 09:56:36 More willful misreading? Eve Guardian was commenting on the inaccurate Fiend or Fool! Article by Haratu. The Imperial Chancellor statement printed by Eve Guardian issued on the 16th included: “Doriam II has yet to make a statement about this edict, and until such time all contact with the Cult is to be avoided." Has not been changed, added etc.
Your statment :"We are grateful for this clarification from the Imperial Household as using force against other Amarrians is not something we would undertake lightly. We see this statement as an offical mandate to take action against the heretical Tetrimon Cult who have been working to undermine the institutions of Empire..." was made on the same day 1 hr 40 mins after this unchanged statment.
For God, Empire, and Sarum. |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 10:12:00 -
[39]
Bastable - You can take my word for it that the extra paragraph was not added until AFTER we had made our comment. Shar Tegral will, I am sure, confirm this...
I also have a variety of logs both from when we first knew of this statement in conversation with Shar and also the discussion of a response with our Directors (before that additional line was included)...
I don't know why you are trying to stir this when the only people being amused are the enemies of Amarr...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 10:12:00 -
[40]
Bastable - You can take my word for it that the extra paragraph was not added until AFTER we had made our comment. Shar Tegral will, I am sure, confirm this...
I also have a variety of logs both from when we first knew of this statement in conversation with Shar and also the discussion of a response with our Directors (before that additional line was included)...
I don't know why you are trying to stir this when the only people being amused are the enemies of Amarr...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 10:18:00 -
[41]
And just to clarify please read Shar's post again particularly the parts in bold...
Originally by: Shar Tegral There was a delay in doing a proper correction/retraction.
As for PIE's press release. PIE was given advance copy of the article regarding the Imperial Chancellor's Clarifaction. (As was Masaut'aa Matari and other interested parties.) The Amarran Government contacted Eve Guardian with a fuller, more accurate copy of the memo, minutes after the story was published.
((In other words, my source of the info made an added qualification at the last minute. Can't always control that but I have to respect it... even if it puts others in a bad spot.))
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 10:18:00 -
[42]
And just to clarify please read Shar's post again particularly the parts in bold...
Originally by: Shar Tegral There was a delay in doing a proper correction/retraction.
As for PIE's press release. PIE was given advance copy of the article regarding the Imperial Chancellor's Clarifaction. (As was Masaut'aa Matari and other interested parties.) The Amarran Government contacted Eve Guardian with a fuller, more accurate copy of the memo, minutes after the story was published.
((In other words, my source of the info made an added qualification at the last minute. Can't always control that but I have to respect it... even if it puts others in a bad spot.))
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Bastables
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Posted - 2004.08.23 11:11:00 -
[43]
I disagree, it seems to have taken several days to note the PIE stance of fratricide was pherahps overtaken by events. The Minnies, let them support a Amarr faction who's aim is to return to the recaliming, the irony is delicious.
For God, Empire, and Sarum. |
Bastables
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Posted - 2004.08.23 11:11:00 -
[44]
I disagree, it seems to have taken several days to note the PIE stance of fratricide was pherahps overtaken by events. The Minnies, let them support a Amarr faction who's aim is to return to the recaliming, the irony is delicious.
For God, Empire, and Sarum. |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 11:35:00 -
[45]
Bastables do you have some problem?
As soon as we were informed (by the post by Shar here) that the statement from the Imperial Chancellor had been altered (after our initial early response) PIE's policy towards Tetrimon was changed from KOS to simply ignoring them, in line with the Emperor's instructions.
PIE will not commit fratricide without a damn good reason and mandate and after the statement was amended (with the extra paragraph inserted) it was very clear that that the mandate to shoot Tetrimon did not exist. It is simply a matter of crossed wires...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 11:35:00 -
[46]
Bastables do you have some problem?
As soon as we were informed (by the post by Shar here) that the statement from the Imperial Chancellor had been altered (after our initial early response) PIE's policy towards Tetrimon was changed from KOS to simply ignoring them, in line with the Emperor's instructions.
PIE will not commit fratricide without a damn good reason and mandate and after the statement was amended (with the extra paragraph inserted) it was very clear that that the mandate to shoot Tetrimon did not exist. It is simply a matter of crossed wires...
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Bastables
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:44:00 -
[47]
One of your pilots has defended her wish to hunt tetrimon monks, she has stated that there is nothing in PIE's current orders "about leaving the Tetrimon spread their heritical propganda in peace."
Again you sent in a statment 1.40 hr after the new declration and have not apparentlly retracted it internally.
For God, Empire, and Sarum. |
Bastables
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:44:00 -
[48]
One of your pilots has defended her wish to hunt tetrimon monks, she has stated that there is nothing in PIE's current orders "about leaving the Tetrimon spread their heritical propganda in peace."
Again you sent in a statment 1.40 hr after the new declration and have not apparentlly retracted it internally.
For God, Empire, and Sarum. |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:50:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 23/08/2004 12:55:04 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 23/08/2004 12:51:39
Originally by: Bastables One of your pilots has defended her wish to hunt tetrimon monks, she has stated that there is nothing in PIE's current orders "about leaving the Tetrimon spread their heritical propganda in peace."
Again you sent in a statment 1.40 hr after the new declration and have not apparentlly retracted it internally.
As someone with your obvious wisdom and experience must realise, it takes orders a certain amount of time for orders to propagate through an organisation - not everyone constantly checks their comms system for policy amendments.
Rest assured though, that one person's out of date information in no way impinges on our ability to successfully implement policy.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:50:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 23/08/2004 12:55:04 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 23/08/2004 12:51:39
Originally by: Bastables One of your pilots has defended her wish to hunt tetrimon monks, she has stated that there is nothing in PIE's current orders "about leaving the Tetrimon spread their heritical propganda in peace."
Again you sent in a statment 1.40 hr after the new declration and have not apparentlly retracted it internally.
As someone with your obvious wisdom and experience must realise, it takes orders a certain amount of time for orders to propagate through an organisation - not everyone constantly checks their comms system for policy amendments.
Rest assured though, that one person's out of date information in no way impinges on our ability to successfully implement policy.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 13:03:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 13:11:51
Originally by: Bastables One of your pilots has defended her wish to hunt tetrimon monks, she has stated that there is nothing in PIE's current orders "about leaving the Tetrimon spread their heritical propganda in peace."
Again you sent in a statment 1.40 hr after the new declration and have not apparentlly retracted it internally.
Bastables...
The statement was published PRIVATELY on EVE Guardian before it was published publically.
I commented on it on behalf of PIE immediately it went public as we had kindly been given access to it in advance based on our involvement in the issue.
It was then changed AFTER I had added the comment.
I do not see what you are hoping to achieve with this?
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 13:03:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 13:11:51
Originally by: Bastables One of your pilots has defended her wish to hunt tetrimon monks, she has stated that there is nothing in PIE's current orders "about leaving the Tetrimon spread their heritical propganda in peace."
Again you sent in a statment 1.40 hr after the new declration and have not apparentlly retracted it internally.
Bastables...
The statement was published PRIVATELY on EVE Guardian before it was published publically.
I commented on it on behalf of PIE immediately it went public as we had kindly been given access to it in advance based on our involvement in the issue.
It was then changed AFTER I had added the comment.
I do not see what you are hoping to achieve with this?
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 13:24:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 13:30:44
For your information Bastables this is the version that we commented on. Please note how different the last paragraph is to the one that it was eventually changed to and why we felt we had the mandate to attack Tetrimon:
From: Imperial Chancellor To: General Release
Subject: "Cult of Tetrimon"
"There has been some controversy over the recent activities of the Tetrimon Cult. The office of the Chancellor wishes to remind all faithful Amarran citizens that the previous Emperors issued, and substantiated existing, edicts regarding suppression of the Tetrimon heresy.
Suppression of all teachings of the Tetrimon Cult are to continue by Imperial Edict, and all contact with them is to be avoided."
As far as we could tell that was a pretty clear indication Imperial will...
As I have answered already to Ardor our policy therefore reverts to what it was before this statement which is neutrality and uninvolvement in this issue.
To be honest this has been handled badly from the start with completely mixed messages coming out of those in authority at every stage of this affair
That is why we issued THIS statement in the firstplace and it seems things have not moved any further along since.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 13:24:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 13:30:44
For your information Bastables this is the version that we commented on. Please note how different the last paragraph is to the one that it was eventually changed to and why we felt we had the mandate to attack Tetrimon:
From: Imperial Chancellor To: General Release
Subject: "Cult of Tetrimon"
"There has been some controversy over the recent activities of the Tetrimon Cult. The office of the Chancellor wishes to remind all faithful Amarran citizens that the previous Emperors issued, and substantiated existing, edicts regarding suppression of the Tetrimon heresy.
Suppression of all teachings of the Tetrimon Cult are to continue by Imperial Edict, and all contact with them is to be avoided."
As far as we could tell that was a pretty clear indication Imperial will...
As I have answered already to Ardor our policy therefore reverts to what it was before this statement which is neutrality and uninvolvement in this issue.
To be honest this has been handled badly from the start with completely mixed messages coming out of those in authority at every stage of this affair
That is why we issued THIS statement in the firstplace and it seems things have not moved any further along since.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.23 17:36:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Bastables The Minnies, let them support a Amarr faction who's aim is to return to the recaliming, the irony is delicious.
The Minmatar are inferior but not that stupid. In fact Estios, a former member of Oracle, was one of those who killed the priestesses Hamida Ytheros and Omon Drakian of Tetrimon in the Gukarla system a half year ago.
At the time of the championships Bad Harlequin (CEO?/member of Oracle at that time) also said to Hardin (CEO of PIE at that time):
Originally by: Bad Harlequin you know, if Kor-Azor eventually wins the right of succession and the Sarum go rogue and attempt an uprising, you and i could wind up fighting shoulder to shoulder, my dear foe. Strange times...
While I dislike the blind loyality of PIE towards Doriam I do not question their honor. I am sure Hardin told us the truth about the Eve Guardian issue and I am sure PIE will be more carefull in future before they make a decision to hunt faithfull amarrians now that they know there are forces in the shadow who spread disinformation to cause havoc.
Regarding the statements of Lallara Zhuul to hunt Tetrimon in the Amarr channel: I agree with Hardin that it might be an interuption in the chain of command inside the PIE hierachy. At least Lallara said she would ask her superiors about new orders.
In PIE, like in most other corporations, there are people who make decisions and others who follow orders. So I dont care so much if soldiers like Lallara or Gaius make noise to get some attention. I do care when Golan speaks.
We are Amarrians. We might disagree but in the end we all want the same: serve God.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.23 17:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Bastables The Minnies, let them support a Amarr faction who's aim is to return to the recaliming, the irony is delicious.
The Minmatar are inferior but not that stupid. In fact Estios, a former member of Oracle, was one of those who killed the priestesses Hamida Ytheros and Omon Drakian of Tetrimon in the Gukarla system a half year ago.
At the time of the championships Bad Harlequin (CEO?/member of Oracle at that time) also said to Hardin (CEO of PIE at that time):
Originally by: Bad Harlequin you know, if Kor-Azor eventually wins the right of succession and the Sarum go rogue and attempt an uprising, you and i could wind up fighting shoulder to shoulder, my dear foe. Strange times...
While I dislike the blind loyality of PIE towards Doriam I do not question their honor. I am sure Hardin told us the truth about the Eve Guardian issue and I am sure PIE will be more carefull in future before they make a decision to hunt faithfull amarrians now that they know there are forces in the shadow who spread disinformation to cause havoc.
Regarding the statements of Lallara Zhuul to hunt Tetrimon in the Amarr channel: I agree with Hardin that it might be an interuption in the chain of command inside the PIE hierachy. At least Lallara said she would ask her superiors about new orders.
In PIE, like in most other corporations, there are people who make decisions and others who follow orders. So I dont care so much if soldiers like Lallara or Gaius make noise to get some attention. I do care when Golan speaks.
We are Amarrians. We might disagree but in the end we all want the same: serve God.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 18:15:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 18:18:10
Ardor - just to clarify.
PIE is not 'blindly loyal' to Doriam.
We are blindly loyal to the EMPEROR - whoever that may be and whatever house.
We are loyal to the institutions of Empire and and to the Amarr people.
We have never pledged our loyalty as a corp to a particular House. We are above those politics...
The one thing I have learned in this instance is to make 100% sure that the information we are given is correct.
And you are also correct when you say that many people who dislike Amarr are trying to be divisive and we ALL have to be careful about who to believe...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.23 18:15:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 18:18:10
Ardor - just to clarify.
PIE is not 'blindly loyal' to Doriam.
We are blindly loyal to the EMPEROR - whoever that may be and whatever house.
We are loyal to the institutions of Empire and and to the Amarr people.
We have never pledged our loyalty as a corp to a particular House. We are above those politics...
The one thing I have learned in this instance is to make 100% sure that the information we are given is correct.
And you are also correct when you say that many people who dislike Amarr are trying to be divisive and we ALL have to be careful about who to believe...
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Ezar Vorbarra
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 13:30:44 To be honest this has been handled badly from the start with completely mixed messages coming out of those in authority at every stage of this affair
More true words have never been spoken brother.
I would like to point out that this is why such egregious freedoms of the press are not permitted in the Amarrian Empire. The Ministry of Public Information ensures that no such errors are made.
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Ezar Vorbarra
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:22:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 13:30:44 To be honest this has been handled badly from the start with completely mixed messages coming out of those in authority at every stage of this affair
More true words have never been spoken brother.
I would like to point out that this is why such egregious freedoms of the press are not permitted in the Amarrian Empire. The Ministry of Public Information ensures that no such errors are made.
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