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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:30:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 18:18:10
Ardor - just to clarify.
PIE is not 'blindly loyal' to Doriam.
We are blindly loyal to the EMPEROR - whoever that may be and whatever house.
So you are blindly loyal to Doriam II?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:30:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 18:18:10
Ardor - just to clarify.
PIE is not 'blindly loyal' to Doriam.
We are blindly loyal to the EMPEROR - whoever that may be and whatever house.
So you are blindly loyal to Doriam II?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:36:00 -
[63]
As Doriam is the Emperor I dont see a difference if I say you are blindly loyal to Doriam or if I say you are blindly loyal to the Emperor. This discussion is hair-splitting. So I say you are blindly loyal to the current Emperor Doriam. I am open for other suggestions to describe your blind loyality.
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 18:18:10 And you are also correct when you say that many people who dislike Amarr are trying to be divisive and we ALL have to be careful about who to believe...
I see the hint in this sentence. I am well aware of the possibility that Tetrimon indeed could be liars. They claim 'something went wrong' during the moral reform. I know nothing about that time so I am willing to listen to them to see if they speak the truth. You know it was not only the houses Ardishapur, Kador, Kor-Azor and Sarum who supported the Emperor during that time. House Khanid was involved in this reform as much as the other four houses. So we are sitting in the same boat more or less.
The reason why I am supporting Tetrimon is because I want to know what they have to say and if they speak the truth. I will never know the truth if I kill them. You will never know the truth if you kill them. My wish and I am sure it is your wish as well is to serve God.
Obviously there are forces who don't want Tetrimon to be able to speak. I do believe it's the same force which wants the Empire to take distance from our old traditions and values including the reclaiming. I start to believe it's not Doriam nor it was Heideran who has/had real control. I remember Dasham Nestorik, the Imperial Aide, saying before the championship: "We must hope that moderate and peace loving powers will take the throne. It is imperative to the trans-staellar peace that our Leader strived to achieve."
Just in this very moment I once again think about Pax Amarria, the book I dislike so much, and wonder if it was released after Heiderans death... I will start investigations.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:36:00 -
[64]
As Doriam is the Emperor I dont see a difference if I say you are blindly loyal to Doriam or if I say you are blindly loyal to the Emperor. This discussion is hair-splitting. So I say you are blindly loyal to the current Emperor Doriam. I am open for other suggestions to describe your blind loyality.
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 23/08/2004 18:18:10 And you are also correct when you say that many people who dislike Amarr are trying to be divisive and we ALL have to be careful about who to believe...
I see the hint in this sentence. I am well aware of the possibility that Tetrimon indeed could be liars. They claim 'something went wrong' during the moral reform. I know nothing about that time so I am willing to listen to them to see if they speak the truth. You know it was not only the houses Ardishapur, Kador, Kor-Azor and Sarum who supported the Emperor during that time. House Khanid was involved in this reform as much as the other four houses. So we are sitting in the same boat more or less.
The reason why I am supporting Tetrimon is because I want to know what they have to say and if they speak the truth. I will never know the truth if I kill them. You will never know the truth if you kill them. My wish and I am sure it is your wish as well is to serve God.
Obviously there are forces who don't want Tetrimon to be able to speak. I do believe it's the same force which wants the Empire to take distance from our old traditions and values including the reclaiming. I start to believe it's not Doriam nor it was Heideran who has/had real control. I remember Dasham Nestorik, the Imperial Aide, saying before the championship: "We must hope that moderate and peace loving powers will take the throne. It is imperative to the trans-staellar peace that our Leader strived to achieve."
Just in this very moment I once again think about Pax Amarria, the book I dislike so much, and wonder if it was released after Heiderans death... I will start investigations.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:43:00 -
[65]
Pax Amarria was released before Heideran died, Ardor.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:43:00 -
[66]
Pax Amarria was released before Heideran died, Ardor.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:57:00 -
[67]
Thank you for the info. So this stupid idea of sacrificing many sacred things to ensure that tranquility will prevail is from Heideran. Ok, nothing has changed. It wasnt the only mistake under Heiderans government...
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.23 19:57:00 -
[68]
Thank you for the info. So this stupid idea of sacrificing many sacred things to ensure that tranquility will prevail is from Heideran. Ok, nothing has changed. It wasnt the only mistake under Heiderans government...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.24 00:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Discorporation
Ardor - just to clarify.
PIE is not 'blindly loyal' to Doriam.
We are blindly loyal to the EMPEROR - whoever that may be and whatever house.
So you are blindly loyal to Doriam II?
As he is the legitimately selected Emperor yes - with the proviso that he remains bound by Scripture...
It is the same loyalty we showed to Heideran VII and the same loyalty we would have shown Sarum or Ardishapur had they gained the throne...
Our loyalty is not to a House it is to the Empire and its institutions and that has been a constant from the start...
It saddens me that some Amarrians put partisan House politics ahead of their loyalty to the Empire as it reminds me of Minmatar tribal politics...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.24 00:53:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Discorporation
Ardor - just to clarify.
PIE is not 'blindly loyal' to Doriam.
We are blindly loyal to the EMPEROR - whoever that may be and whatever house.
So you are blindly loyal to Doriam II?
As he is the legitimately selected Emperor yes - with the proviso that he remains bound by Scripture...
It is the same loyalty we showed to Heideran VII and the same loyalty we would have shown Sarum or Ardishapur had they gained the throne...
Our loyalty is not to a House it is to the Empire and its institutions and that has been a constant from the start...
It saddens me that some Amarrians put partisan House politics ahead of their loyalty to the Empire as it reminds me of Minmatar tribal politics...
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.24 01:03:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Gaius Kador on 24/08/2004 01:05:49 You will all note that the Empire is not a democratic state, a ramshackle republic or even a degenerate kingdom.
Freedom of speech is not a privelege.
Teachings deemed heretical by the Emperor shall be surpressed, the decision is not ours to make, but His.
This has nothing to do with intra-House politics, but everything to do with Faith and Loyalty. ----------------------------------------------
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.24 01:03:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Gaius Kador on 24/08/2004 01:05:49 You will all note that the Empire is not a democratic state, a ramshackle republic or even a degenerate kingdom.
Freedom of speech is not a privelege.
Teachings deemed heretical by the Emperor shall be surpressed, the decision is not ours to make, but His.
This has nothing to do with intra-House politics, but everything to do with Faith and Loyalty. ----------------------------------------------
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:11:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Gaius Kador Edited by: Gaius Kador on 24/08/2004 01:05:49
Teachings deemed heretical by the Emperor shall be surpressed, the decision is not ours to make, but His.
*cough, cough* Theology Council *cough, cough*
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:11:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Gaius Kador Edited by: Gaius Kador on 24/08/2004 01:05:49
Teachings deemed heretical by the Emperor shall be surpressed, the decision is not ours to make, but His.
*cough, cough* Theology Council *cough, cough*
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:20:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Gaius Kador on 24/08/2004 02:21:48
Originally by: Tharrn
*cough, cough* Theology Council *cough, cough*
Yes indeed Tharrn, it might have been I should have clarified for all the unenlightened foreign elements reading this, but I do not see the need to cater to their ignorance.
However.
The role of the Theology council:
Quote: The last great vestige of the religious sect that once rules the empire, the Theology Council has the same role as the supreme court has in other empires. It also acts a moral police and hunter of heretics, which gives it considerable power within the empire, allowing it to investigate, question and even imprison almost anyone at its whim.
That would be the foreign description of the Theology Council, for the unenlightened among us, in this case authored by the DED.
They too answer to the ultimate power and wisdom granted our Emperor by the Grace of God. ----------------------------------------------
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:20:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Gaius Kador on 24/08/2004 02:21:48
Originally by: Tharrn
*cough, cough* Theology Council *cough, cough*
Yes indeed Tharrn, it might have been I should have clarified for all the unenlightened foreign elements reading this, but I do not see the need to cater to their ignorance.
However.
The role of the Theology council:
Quote: The last great vestige of the religious sect that once rules the empire, the Theology Council has the same role as the supreme court has in other empires. It also acts a moral police and hunter of heretics, which gives it considerable power within the empire, allowing it to investigate, question and even imprison almost anyone at its whim.
That would be the foreign description of the Theology Council, for the unenlightened among us, in this case authored by the DED.
They too answer to the ultimate power and wisdom granted our Emperor by the Grace of God. ----------------------------------------------
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Grand Master Elata Ardo I do not blame Emperor Doriam II, or his predecessor Heideran VII, for they followed the traditions as they were taught them, for these lies have been spread for over a millenia. But it was not always so. During the moral reforms from 21875 to 21950, the Council of Apostles was stripped of its powers, which were transferred to the Emperor and the newly formed Privy Council. The Emperor was elevated to become a spiritual and worldly leader of the Empire. Many at the time were strongly reminded of the Mad Emperor Zaragram II some 500 years earlier, but many of those voices were silenced, forever.
This new young Emperor gathered those religious leaders supportive of him into a special assembly to create a new cannon of scriptures that would increase the moral authority of the Emperor. This assembly became permanent and was named the Theology Council, the defenders of the new religious and political order. Theology Council Inquisitors were much feared throughout the Empire. Under their ruling fist many aspects of the Amarr faith were purged and modified to fit the new political order of the Empire - with the Emperor as the supreme and infallible voice of God.
You may understand our position better now, and why we do not seek the acceptance of the Theology council or to claim legitimacy through members of the Privy council, for the Theology council and the current authority of the Privy council and Emperor are not as originally intended by God, but are the creations of power hungry men. Had they remained satisfied to lead the Amarr people according to the traditions, we would have had no argument, but those mere men changed and corrupted the word of God, but still spoke as if it were unchanged.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:38:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Grand Master Elata Ardo I do not blame Emperor Doriam II, or his predecessor Heideran VII, for they followed the traditions as they were taught them, for these lies have been spread for over a millenia. But it was not always so. During the moral reforms from 21875 to 21950, the Council of Apostles was stripped of its powers, which were transferred to the Emperor and the newly formed Privy Council. The Emperor was elevated to become a spiritual and worldly leader of the Empire. Many at the time were strongly reminded of the Mad Emperor Zaragram II some 500 years earlier, but many of those voices were silenced, forever.
This new young Emperor gathered those religious leaders supportive of him into a special assembly to create a new cannon of scriptures that would increase the moral authority of the Emperor. This assembly became permanent and was named the Theology Council, the defenders of the new religious and political order. Theology Council Inquisitors were much feared throughout the Empire. Under their ruling fist many aspects of the Amarr faith were purged and modified to fit the new political order of the Empire - with the Emperor as the supreme and infallible voice of God.
You may understand our position better now, and why we do not seek the acceptance of the Theology council or to claim legitimacy through members of the Privy council, for the Theology council and the current authority of the Privy council and Emperor are not as originally intended by God, but are the creations of power hungry men. Had they remained satisfied to lead the Amarr people according to the traditions, we would have had no argument, but those mere men changed and corrupted the word of God, but still spoke as if it were unchanged.
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:40:00 -
[79]
Your point being? ----------------------------------------------
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:40:00 -
[80]
Your point being? ----------------------------------------------
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:56:00 -
[81]
Put Gaius Kador on a lessh.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.08.24 02:56:00 -
[82]
Put Gaius Kador on a lessh.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Ezar Vorbarra
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Posted - 2004.08.24 04:57:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Discorporation Pax Amarria was released before Heideran died, Ardor.
Aye, I have a copy of it signed by our beloved late Emperor himself. It is one of my most treasured posessions.
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Ezar Vorbarra
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Posted - 2004.08.24 04:57:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Discorporation Pax Amarria was released before Heideran died, Ardor.
Aye, I have a copy of it signed by our beloved late Emperor himself. It is one of my most treasured posessions.
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Ezar Vorbarra
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Posted - 2004.08.24 05:08:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Wild Rho Put Gaius Kador on a lessh.
Lord Gaius Kador, holder of House Kador, says whatever he wishes.
Fortunately for the rest of the galaxy, his views do not necessarily reflect that of the rest of PIE.
I thought we were going to have an intelligent debate here. I still want to know why Tetrimon chose this exact time to return. I want to know why they haven't revealed the exact contents of their scriptures? I want to know what Tetrimon's intentions really are.
As to why we blindly follow Doriam Kor-Azor II? It's simple really.
Because Ecliptical and Kileak won 4 to nothing in the championships.
Any other heir would receive the same loyalty from us had they won. Once Doriam became Emperor he ceased to be a part of the Kor-Azor family, and he became head of the blessed Imperial Family.
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Ezar Vorbarra
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Posted - 2004.08.24 05:08:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Wild Rho Put Gaius Kador on a lessh.
Lord Gaius Kador, holder of House Kador, says whatever he wishes.
Fortunately for the rest of the galaxy, his views do not necessarily reflect that of the rest of PIE.
I thought we were going to have an intelligent debate here. I still want to know why Tetrimon chose this exact time to return. I want to know why they haven't revealed the exact contents of their scriptures? I want to know what Tetrimon's intentions really are.
As to why we blindly follow Doriam Kor-Azor II? It's simple really.
Because Ecliptical and Kileak won 4 to nothing in the championships.
Any other heir would receive the same loyalty from us had they won. Once Doriam became Emperor he ceased to be a part of the Kor-Azor family, and he became head of the blessed Imperial Family.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.24 09:03:00 -
[87]
As so far noone I asked has been able to shed light on this question I'd like to put it up here:
Does anyone know who was behind the 'Succession Ritual Comitee'? Neither the Privy Council nor the Theology Council were ever mentioned (in fact no names were ever given).
Am I really the only one who found and finds that odd to say the least? Everyone has been ignoring this (admitedly difficult and dangerous) question so far, and I suppose it is for a lack of answers...
Sometimes I wake up at night and wonder if we all have been led arround like puppets on a string by outside forces - and that worries me deeply.
As I see it tradition has been broken more than once and by severall instituations and houses already and this will be used as an excuse to break tradition again. I foresee that Amarr will be plunged into a dangerous powergame and the scriptures will be all the faithfull will have to guide them in the darkness. But which scriptures? The original ones dating back to the days before they were changed in the morale reforms, or the ones agreed upon by that time? Has tradition and the will of god been bent in the past or the present? This is the question that will, no *has*, split Amarr although it might not be apparent at first glance. To whom shall the faithfull look up for guidance *if* they have been betrayed? Was it sinfull to ever change the scriptures or was that the will of god? Only the one himself knows the answer - will he sent us a sign, a beacon, to lighten our path? I do not know, but I am worried. These questions have to be asked and answers have to be found, but who can be trusted in the game of power?
I will pray for enlightenment and unity. I will pray for a sign as I pray for the reclaiming.
Pia Fidelis
Tharrn
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.24 09:03:00 -
[88]
As so far noone I asked has been able to shed light on this question I'd like to put it up here:
Does anyone know who was behind the 'Succession Ritual Comitee'? Neither the Privy Council nor the Theology Council were ever mentioned (in fact no names were ever given).
Am I really the only one who found and finds that odd to say the least? Everyone has been ignoring this (admitedly difficult and dangerous) question so far, and I suppose it is for a lack of answers...
Sometimes I wake up at night and wonder if we all have been led arround like puppets on a string by outside forces - and that worries me deeply.
As I see it tradition has been broken more than once and by severall instituations and houses already and this will be used as an excuse to break tradition again. I foresee that Amarr will be plunged into a dangerous powergame and the scriptures will be all the faithfull will have to guide them in the darkness. But which scriptures? The original ones dating back to the days before they were changed in the morale reforms, or the ones agreed upon by that time? Has tradition and the will of god been bent in the past or the present? This is the question that will, no *has*, split Amarr although it might not be apparent at first glance. To whom shall the faithfull look up for guidance *if* they have been betrayed? Was it sinfull to ever change the scriptures or was that the will of god? Only the one himself knows the answer - will he sent us a sign, a beacon, to lighten our path? I do not know, but I am worried. These questions have to be asked and answers have to be found, but who can be trusted in the game of power?
I will pray for enlightenment and unity. I will pray for a sign as I pray for the reclaiming.
Pia Fidelis
Tharrn
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Lorna Doone
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Posted - 2004.08.24 10:32:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Gaius Kador Freedom of speech is not a privelege.
Teachings deemed heretical by the Emperor shall be surpressed, the decision is not ours to make, but His.
This has nothing to do with intra-House politics, but everything to do with Faith and Loyalty.
Your faith in the emperor's teachings can't be that strong if you have to censor everything else. Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with keeping credulous sheep stupid
--------------------------------------------------------------- "Meantime, all around me is violence and robbery, coarse delight and savage pain, reckless joke and hopeless death." |
Lorna Doone
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Posted - 2004.08.24 10:32:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Gaius Kador Freedom of speech is not a privelege.
Teachings deemed heretical by the Emperor shall be surpressed, the decision is not ours to make, but His.
This has nothing to do with intra-House politics, but everything to do with Faith and Loyalty.
Your faith in the emperor's teachings can't be that strong if you have to censor everything else. Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with keeping credulous sheep stupid
--------------------------------------------------------------- "Meantime, all around me is violence and robbery, coarse delight and savage pain, reckless joke and hopeless death." |
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