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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.11 05:31:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 11/05/2009 03:36:18
Originally by: Galvatine Im all for giving salvagers some loving, but to exclude dead space wrecks in this new system would be daft. Most wrecks are in deadspace (at least in high sec)
Most wrecks may start in dead space but they don't stay there. Under the proposed change, if somone wanted to find wrecks in dead space, they could scan out the ships, drones, ect in said dead space. Same as now. No change to current mechanics.
Once more for the slow: the benefit is being able to find wrecks left in deep space. The proposal is not meant to make scanning down mission runners either more or less difficult.
I see no reason why wrecks in deadspace should not be scannable too. Unless, of course, you're trying to reserve those wrecks for the mission runner.... But you wouldn't want that, would you fullmetal?
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:20:00 -
[92]
Your either not reading or playing dumb. Either way, fix it. If you can't post construtively, don't.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:25:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Your either not reading or playing dumb. Either way, fix it. If you can't post construtively, don't.
I am reading and I am not playing. Either wrecks can be scanned or they can't, deadspace or not. Wrecks are not there to be extra money for mission runners, and this is a fact you have to accept as CCP have stated it as a game mechanism. I am all for scannable wrecks, but see no reason for there to be a mechanism for either mission runners or plex runners to get them as a reward for their already paltry and overpaid efforts, just as CCP say.
Balance. It's all about balance.
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BlackDragon00981
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Posted - 2009.05.12 10:37:00 -
[94]
Edited by: BlackDragon00981 on 12/05/2009 10:37:13
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass If you can't post construtively, don't.
Seems a little hypocritical of you, don't you think? Either way you need to realize that CCP isn't going to change no matter how much whinage you post on the forums. You're chances of changing their mind is about as good as getting a longer skill queue.
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Mara Myrkridur
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Posted - 2009.05.12 12:42:00 -
[95]
Imo both wrecks and cans not owned by you should be able to be tractored, and tractoring, salvaging and looting it should have aggression counter. And I agree to that wrecks should be scanable. Also make NPC ships scanable, if they aren't already.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.05.12 12:52:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 12/05/2009 12:52:37 no salvage for mission runners. All wrecks if yours or not should be trackable by a tractor beam additionally to no aggression on salvaging. They arent an extra income for MR.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.05.12 23:23:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 12/05/2009 23:24:23
Originally by: Robert Caldera They arent an extra income for MR.
We've covered this. Salvage was intented as exactly that. Extra income to make up for nerfed bounites. You act like CCP never chages thier stance on anything, ever. Clearly they do.
The income from salvage is besides the point here. We're talking about making wrecks probe-able, for the most part.
Lets go over this one more time for the incredibly slow. Right now wrecks don't show up for probes. They used to (oh look another change). The reason they don't is because the sheer number of wrecks in a mission made finding players in said mission very easy with probes. So now all wrecks in a mission are more or less lost in space when a mission is turned in. Lots of wasted wrecks salvagers could be out salvaging.
We all seem to agree making wrecks show up for probes again would be of great benifit to salvagers. Now pay attention! I'll try not to lose any of you. There are two problems with making wrecks probe-able:
1 - The vast amount of wrecks in a mission would overly clutter space with sensor signals. This would be a nightmare with the new probing mechanics. The solution, as I see it, is to combine all wrecks on grid into a single "sensor hit". Perhaps even place it on the solar system map as an "exploration" grav site.
2 - The orginal problem. Wrecks in dead space, if they show up for probes, would make finding mission runners easy again. The solution is to make wrecks in dead space invisible to probes. This is EXACTLY like it works now. Zero change. This does not ensure the mission runner gets the wrecks to him/herself any more then it is certain now. Just like now, if someone wanted to go steal wrecks from an active mission, they could probe for the ships and drones inside the deadspace pocket.
And again, I still stand by my suggestion that activating the acceleration gate on someone else's mission, would flag a player that is not in the mission owners gang or corp.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.05.12 23:34:00 -
[98]
yes, the topic has been covered billion of times already, why got this topic revived?
The salvage is still no extra income for MR.
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Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.13 05:26:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
We've covered this. Salvage was intented as exactly that. Extra income to make up for nerfed bounites. You act like CCP never chages thier stance on anything, ever. Clearly they do.
This I would like to see some evidence for. All the CCP quotes I have seen on the subject say precisely the opposite.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.05.15 10:06:00 -
[100]
Reported by CCP Oveur | 2007.03.19 18:46:07 "You're taking away our ISK! We don't make that much ISK!
Understandably percieved so based on the listing in the last blog so let's clarify that also. Direct ISK into your wallet as bounty from NPCs are not the way we reward you for the high level agent missions.
You can still make (tons) of ISK, but it's in the form of materials, tools, ship loot drop, salvaging, technology (hacking). You now have the choice to either capitalize on these items and make them worth more to other players by using the mini-professions or simply sell directly the stuff to other players.
The only difference is that we're not creating ISK out of thin air from CONCORD (Infusion) but rather giving you perishable items (Sink) which other players pay you for."
Also
Reported by CCP Oveur | 2006.09.26 12:58:59 "We also wanted to improve loot in general, so we finally went ahead and exchanged that pristine can that drops for a proper wrecked ship. That shipwreck is now salvage-able, where you will find scraps of components required to create Rigs, the new ship upgrades which currently have a heavy defensive focus."
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.05.15 13:15:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 15/05/2009 13:18:53 At the risk of diving into this morass of whining twelve-year-olds, why not turn mission deadspaces after hand-in into exploration sites?
If you're the mission runner, you have an automatic headstart because you know where it is already. If you're a friendly local salvager, you can probe the site down. Everybody wins.
The issue of ninja-salvaging during missions is one I'm not touching with a bargepole - too many brick walls.
Edit: On the above argument, the evidence is also hinted in the way that Sleeper drones were constructed. They have no bounty, they have loot assigned to the player that is effectively a bounty but can be lost (items you can trade to NPCs for ISK back in empire), and they have T3 salvage. Guess which bit brings in the real cash, thanks to the player-driven market. That NPC design focus makes it quite clear which direction CCP is currently pedalling in. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Zaknussem
Intrum Industria
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Posted - 2009.05.15 14:17:00 -
[102]
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The new NPC AI will fix all of this, and more.
With smarter rats, ninjas become a target too. They will either be less inclined to venture into missions, or they will bring lots of friends. Most likely they'll just whine, give up and ragequit because their risk-free profession has been eliminated.
The thing is, the mission runners will also be bringing their friends, and they will be PvP-fitted now instead of being flying shields. Expect at least one ship in any group to be capable of salvaging on the go. Another nail in the coffin of the ninja salvager.
This will also play havoc with macro-missioners, as they'll be forced to team up to accomplish the same thing they could do solo. Don't think for a minute that this will stop them, it'll just make it a little harder for them.
The only real question is when CCP is going to do this. ASAP is a good answer, if it wasn't for CCP's lenghty track record of gross incompetence. CCP still has left to clean up the game from the Empyrean Age expansion before they get to work on the Apocrypha mess, and here I am talking about a game change so vast it's almost an expansion of its own. Because with smarter rats, every available mission above L2 (and many L2 missions) become tougher than L5 missions currently are. So hundreds of missions will have to be changed. I can't see 8 guys in Atlanta pulling that off in anything less than a year, even if the team includes Big Dumb Object and Ginger Beard Guy. |
Lear Hepburn
Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent
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Posted - 2009.05.15 14:54:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Reported by CCP Oveur | 2007.03.19 18:46:07 "You're taking away our ISK! We don't make that much ISK!
Understandably percieved so based on the listing in the last blog so let's clarify that also. Direct ISK into your wallet as bounty from NPCs are not the way we reward you for the high level agent missions.
You can still make (tons) of ISK, but it's in the form of materials, tools, ship loot drop, salvaging, technology (hacking). You now have the choice to either capitalize on these items and make them worth more to other players by using the mini-professions or simply sell directly the stuff to other players.
The only difference is that we're not creating ISK out of thin air from CONCORD (Infusion) but rather giving you perishable items (Sink) which other players pay you for."
Also
Reported by CCP Oveur | 2006.09.26 12:58:59 "We also wanted to improve loot in general, so we finally went ahead and exchanged that pristine can that drops for a proper wrecked ship. That shipwreck is now salvage-able, where you will find scraps of components required to create Rigs, the new ship upgrades which currently have a heavy defensive focus."
Stop making the same post in multiple threads. I've answered you on the other one.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.15 15:35:00 -
[104]
Agreed, anyone should be able to tractor a wreck. It's so annoying to go salvage a mission you did with a couple other corps and be unable to tractor any of the wrecks.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.15 15:38:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 29/03/2009 07:23:42 They are pirates most of the time, and enemies of the empire I'm working for the rest of the time. Eve is a harsh universe. Life is cheap and killing for a cause is tolerated.
This is completely off topic though (sorry Marcus). How about you post about his idea, instead of bashing me?
Life most certainly is not cheap! I pay a pretty penny for my clones thank you very much!
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.05.15 20:23:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Lear Hepburn Stop making the same post in multiple threads. I've answered you on the other one.
This thread was here long before the other. Maybe you all should stop bumping duplicate threads.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.05.19 02:43:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 19/05/2009 02:43:55
Originally by: Teras Menac Agreed, anyone should be able to tractor a wreck. It's so annoying to go salvage a mission you did with a couple other corps and be unable to tractor any of the wrecks.
I agree that not being able to tractor wrecks is pretty annoying, but without a decent counter to the extra greifing this would open up, it's not feasible to change it right now.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.05.22 09:15:00 -
[108]
There are too many salvage threads goin on right now. In an effort to counter this, I'm quoting another possible solution in the oldest [unlocked] salvage thread I know of.
Originally by: Abrazzar Or why not just overhaul the whole wreck/mission mechanic? And top it off with a T1 production change already been pondered about by the devs a while ago: T1 Construction Components.
- Wrecks no longer have modules in them. - Wrecks are not owned. - Activating a mission acceleration gate will aggress you to the mission owner and gang and corp unless you are part of the gang or corp. - Salvaging will yield salvage, T1 components and Meta Components that work as BPCs for meta level items.
So mission runners can attack intruders if they want to, wrecks will no longer confuse with ownership, T1 components drop amount can be controlled for mineral reprocessing yield and meta components don't reprocess at all while still adding meta modules to the market.
So no one will be happy and everything is balanced.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.05.22 09:34:00 -
[109]
this is a sucky solution since there is no reason for protecting mission areas from "intruders".
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